No, Planetside 2, like Planetside 1 is an MMOFPS, not a MMORPG
What do you mean by "no"? My statement "Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. (http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is 100% accurate.
I don't think he can tell the difference between multiplayer and massively multiplayer. Let alone types of MMOs.
Narius knows the difference, he just enjoys trolling on the subject.
If you notice, he never actually states his own opinion. I've tried getting him to give us his definition of an MMO, but he refuses. He will only ever link to other peoples opinions or websites and only when it is in opposition to someone else on this site. Classic troll behaviour.
It is why he always uses this sites games list when engaging in discussions about the definition of MMO, whilst ignoring:
The English language
The games that defined the genre
The definitions given by the founding fathers of the genre (Garriott and Koster)
This websites editor stating the games list was flawed
He is only out to troll and deliberately uses flawed evidence.
I believe MMOs are becoming less desirable because 3d games are repetitive. Cheating also comes into play to make the actual game less fun because developers are looking to properly monetize the game while cutting fun factor to disable cheating. Then there's the asian market that COMPLETELY shits on what's left of fair gameplay by adding in p2w monetization. It's a bunch of different reasons that snowball into a dying genre.
But I'll simply blame 3d gaming since it's repetitive, feels less enjoyable, and western technology STILL can't keep up with the necessary latency for action RPGs in pvp.
Consider simpler times -- when games like Ultima Online and Lineage 1 existed.
I think it have more to do with us getting the same gameplay over and over but only easier and with a cashshop that gets more and more pay2win.
The same gameplay eventually becomes boring.
Very easy difficulty hurts long term play, it might be fun short term to slaughter a huge bunch of mobs but without a challenge people tire a lot faster.
And the cashshops have gotten so bad that they totally mess up any form of balance.
Cheating is of course never good in a multiplayer game but I think these are the 3 reasons people leave the genre.
The reason why so few new MMORPGs are in the making is partly because of the high price and partly because the developers have figured out that Wow clones stopped making money and trying something new is a risk, you might loose your huge investment. When players are losing interest in the genre as well that discourage more devs.
That said, the genre is not well but being not well is not the same as dying.
No, Planetside 2, like Planetside 1 is an MMOFPS, not a MMORPG
What do you mean by "no"? My statement "Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. (http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is 100% accurate.
"Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is a fact about this site.
Whether the classification is right or wrong is irrelevant to the fact that it is listed as "MMORPG" on this site's game list. If you think that it is wrong, take it up with the sys op.
It is why he always uses this sites games list when engaging in discussions about the definition of MMO, whilst ignoring:
The English language
The games that defined the genre
The definitions given by the founding fathers of the genre (Garriott and Koster)
This websites editor stating the games list was flawed
He is only out to troll and deliberately uses flawed evidence.
Let me see ... how can i be ignoring the english language when it is what I use to respond to you?
Games that defined the genre .. well according to whom? I would argue that based on whatever the game list here (or go to massively overpower or any other MMO sites), those games changes.
Definitions given by Garriot and Koster .. sure i ignore them. They are has-beens and no longer relevant. It is like asking Shakespeare for advice of how to make The new Avenger's movie.
This website editor .... they can state whatever .. but a list is a list. If they change the list, i will cite them differently. Promise.
Before that happened .. do you agree that the statement "this site game list classifies PS2 as a MMORPG" is a self-evident 100 percent accurate fact?
No, Planetside 2, like Planetside 1 is an MMOFPS, not a MMORPG
What do you mean by "no"? My statement "Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. (http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is 100% accurate.
"Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is a fact about this site.
Whether the classification is right or wrong is irrelevant to the fact that it is listed as "MMORPG" on this site's game list. If you think that it is wrong, take it up with the sys op.
I give up, you are that kind of person who always have to be right in everything.
They are evolving as playerbase preferences change and technology keeps influencing how we spend our free time.
When MMORPGs started, the online entertainment was limited - because internet was still very young - now we have youtube, netflix, social media, twitch, steam etc.. etc...
Now we have the internet of things emerging with Alexa and Google home, and as new things come into our lives it will keep changing how we interact with online entertainment.
The time of Gen1 MMORPGs when virtual worlds were awe inspiring is gone - it will never come back because we've been there done that and it's not new anymore.
Now we wait for the next breakthrough tech to make entertainment awe inspiring again - in the mean time - MMOs will keep evolving.
It's not evolving at all. It's simply catering to the masses. Ie where the money is. Where's the clear cut progression with in the last 10 years? Zip. That's all these modern mmos do is cater to draw in a bigger audience via convenience.. that's it. Money.
I've seen no clear cut progression in the last 10 years. All I've seen solo-centric mmos to draw in the biggest crowd; the biggest sales. Sometimes you need to break the mold once awhile... and tbh.. none have done that due to monetary reasons.. you say MMO's are evolving? Are they hell. The companies don't really care about you.. you're just a sales number my friend.. and as long as you get your mmo fix of entertainment have you cared either? probably not.
I give up, you are that kind of person who always have to be right in everything.
well, i guess when you do not have the facts on your side, you have to resort to personal attacks. I understand.
I certainly would like to be right in everything. Who doesn't? Don't tell me you like to be wrong. But i have a wife, so I am in the wrong all the time. Luckily, when it comes to stating facts about MMOs, I am doing pretty well, at least in this case.
It is why he always uses this sites games list when engaging in discussions about the definition of MMO, whilst ignoring:
The English language
The games that defined the genre
The definitions given by the founding fathers of the genre (Garriott and Koster)
This websites editor stating the games list was flawed
He is only out to troll and deliberately uses flawed evidence.
Let me see ... how can i be ignoring the english language when it is what I use to respond to you?
Games that defined the genre .. well according to whom? I would argue that based on whatever the game list here (or go to massively overpower or any other MMO sites), those games changes.
Definitions given by Garriot and Koster .. sure i ignore them. They are has-beens and no longer relevant. It is like asking Shakespeare for advice of how to make The new Avenger's movie.
This website editor .... they can state whatever .. but a list is a list. If they change the list, i will cite them differently. Promise.
Before that happened .. do you agree that the statement "this site game list classifies PS2 as a MMORPG" is a self-evident 100 percent accurate fact?
You are ignoring the English language, because the phrase "massively multiplayer online" has a specific meaning when using the English language and English comprehension to process it, and you are ignoring that.
Games that defined the genre - this is easy, just look at the first load of games that were called MMOs. Before them, the genre didn't exist. After them, the phrase "massively multiplayer online" came into existence specifically to define them. It doesn't matter what came afterwards.
Garriott came up with the term MMORPG. It should be self-evident that ignoring him is idiotic. Koster, whilst not the inventor of the term, is never-the-less one of the top experts in the genre and helped to define it. Again, it should be self-evident that ignoring him is stupid.
Yes, a list is a list. But, you using it as evidence when the creator of the list has told us it is flawed is, again, idiotic.
Finally, yes, you have successfully managed to quote the flawed list on this website. Good for you. Doesn't really mean much. If you search hard enough, you can find a website that will back up any claim you want to make, because people can just make up anything they want and post it on the net. If you want to use something as evidence that you are right, it needs to have some sort of authority and actually be correct.
Apart from having fun trolling these forums, I'm curious if there is any other reason why you back the objectively incorrect side of this argument? Is there a point you're trying to make?
Stating facts? You are taking other people's opinions and claiming them to be facts.
I don't think you know what the word "fact" means.
Let me teach you.
"Game list on this site classified PS2 as a MMORPG" is a fact. You can check the list at http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list. Anyone who can read should not disagree. It is self-evident, again, to those who can read.
"PS2 is a MMORPG" is an opinion. See the difference? I never claim that "PS2 is a MMORPG". However, I assert that "Game list on this site classified PS2 as a MMORPG". Even if you disagree with their classification, it does not change the fact that they classify PS2 as such.
If you have more problems with logic and what the word "fact" means, I am here to help!
I give up, you are that kind of person who always have to be right in everything.
well, i guess when you do not have the facts on your side
What? You cant understand the difference between a MMORPG and a MMOFPS, you basing your "facts" on what mmorpg.com lable PS2, play the damn game...jesus, It's like somome driving a old junk car and wrote Corvette on the sides and you think It's a corvette.
I give up, you are that kind of person who always have to be right in everything.
well, i guess when you do not have the facts on your side
What? You cant understand the difference between a MMORPG and a MMOFPS, you basing your "facts" on what mmorpg.com lable PS2, play the damn game...jesus, It's like somome driving a old junk car and wrote Corvette on the sides and you think It's a corvette.
Gosh .. you really need a elementary school lesson in logic. Did you read that i say PS2 is a MMORPG?
What i said is "PS2 is classified as a MMORPG on the game list here". Tell me .. what is wrong with this statement.
Note that i did not endorse nor condemn the classification. I just stated what it is. Can you tell the difference now?
If not, i would be more than happy to give you another lesson. In fact, this forum is fun ... full of people who cannot distinguish between a factual stating of someone else's opinion to an opinion.
This is the great MMO Urban legand, me thinks. As a infamous people have said 'tell something to ppl often enough, they will start believing.' (I put it in quotes, but those aren't the exact words) There are so many negative ppl on these forums that ppl start believing it. MMOs ebb and flow like any industry. However, look at how many are coming out. If the industry was truly dying, there wouldn't be the kind of investment that there is.
If the industry were dying, it would be like the VHS tapes. Companies would start drying up and until there was one. For those who don't know. The one closed up shop recently. Like all analogies, it's not perfect, but the death throes of companies has happened gazillions of times.
I give up, you are that kind of person who always have to be right in everything.
well, i guess when you do not have the facts on your side
What? You cant understand the difference between a MMORPG and a MMOFPS, you basing your "facts" on what mmorpg.com lable PS2, play the damn game...jesus, It's like somome driving a old junk car and wrote Corvette on the sides and you think It's a corvette.
Gosh .. you really need a elementary school lesson in logic. Did you read that i say PS2 is a MMORPG?
What i said is "PS2 is classified as a MMORPG on the game list here". Tell me .. what is wrong with this statement.
Note that i did not endorse nor condemn the classification. I just stated what it is. Can you tell the difference now?
If not, i would be more than happy to give you another lesson. In fact, this forum is fun ... full of people who cannot distinguish between a factual stating of someone else's opinion to an opinion.
Then why even post it from the start, the question was from the beginning, name one MMORPG that PVP worked and you listen PS2, then we sead It's a complete different genre, It's a MMOFPS not a MMORPG then you go on about that this site classified it as a MMORPG and to you that's a fact, then you start twisting words and out of the blue you throw in logic...lol wut.
So please stop it with your word twisting and "logic".
It's a MMOFPS not a MMORPG then you go on about that this site classified it as a MMORPG and to you that's a fact, then you start twisting words and out of the blue you throw in logic...lol wut.
This site does classified it as a MMORPG. What do you mean by "to me" that is a fact.
Show me the evidence that it is not so?
Can you read the game list here?
In fact, tell me, do you disagree that on this site's game list, the label "MMORPG" is put to the game planetside 2? If you do, i have an elementary school i can recommend to you.
It's a MMOFPS not a MMORPG then you go on about that this site classified it as a MMORPG and to you that's a fact, then you start twisting words and out of the blue you throw in logic...lol wut.
This site does classified it as a MMORPG. What do you mean by "to me" that is a fact.
Show me the evidence that it is not so?
Can you read the game list here?
Facts from the game developers themselves https://www.planetside2.com/what-is-ps2 I rather have THEIR facts on their OWN game than this gaming site general classification.
So by all mean you just keep trucking in your Ford escort with Corvette letters painted on the sides If it makes you feel any better.
MMORPGs are dying because developers care more about appealing and appeasing everyone than actually make a theme for a game and sticking to it. The models of F2P destroy the immersion I have in any MMO, each time I had to HALT my game in order to grind an area to turn in-game currency into cash shop currency in order to get a much needed item to progress, while the whale next to me is the reason why PvP wins exist.
Many flavors of MMO does not mean that the genre is surviving. It means the developers do not know what they are doing and so they are testing the waters. When a subgenre does extremely well, it becomes its own major Genre (like MOBA) which means a lot of games have their PvP Stripped to oblivion and have to deal with the scrutiny of MOBAs.
When a game's system and core rules can be circumvented through spending real money on it, it is the equivalent as playing Dungeons and Dragons and telling the Dungeon Master "I will pay you $10 if you change my critical failure of 1 into a critical roll of 20" and before you know it... a single player in the campaign has circumvented all the rules and now the DM is rich.
Doesn't it sound like favoritism? Worse part is everyone else at the table has to put up with that table... Since the DM favors money, everyone else suffers.
That is what happens today. I can ask a class of students "How would it feel if you were to play Checkers and each time your opponent made a wrong move, he could pay money to the developer of the game to take back his move until he beats you? How about paying money in Monopoly to add one or subtract one from the die roll to not land on a property with four houses and a hotel?
The student will say "well then it is no longer a game because games have rules for both players to follow"
However, when students talk about F2Ps, they say "Oh developers do that because they need money, so its still a game, even though players are doing the exact same thing"
They do this, because at the end of the semester when they are failing... Their families along with their lawyers try to first plead with the schools for a change of grade and then upon failure, try to threaten for a lawsuit... School is a game. Do whatever you want, and then pay or threaten the right person to have that F transformed into an A. Who needs education or skill? Its the 4.0 on paper that matters!
Sorry, that happens frequently in the U.S
As long as people accept a double-standard and support the double-standard by paying into it, be it a game, or any other entity for their own personal gain, what you see is what you get. Sorry, but its true. Games get the people they deserve and people get the games they deserve.
Everyone in this forum can recall at least one time that someone tries to scheme you out of your money in real life, but its amazing how when it comes to entertainment, the very same people support the very same schemes in a digital format that they would directly and continuously in real life.
I don't think MMORPG's are dying. I think the people who want to play them are spread out into each game they want to play, or are waiting for one that suits their needs. There are so many MMORPG's that are actively running at the moment that it makes it super hard for anyone to make one that will pull everyone off their currently game. It also doesn't help that the current games being developed are for niche communities already.
I also think development of NEW MMORPG's might be dying. At least the old definition of an MMORPG. The problem is the high investment cost mixed with how segregated the community is on what specific features they all like. Someone will never be able to make a game that appeals to everyone, and the MMORPG genre is turning into sub-genres of music or at least certain types of music. If you take music genres for an example, there are people who will listen to anything (compare to WoW players) or people who listen to specific niche genres of music that they enjoy (compare to some specific niche mmorpg genre). Once MMO's became big after WoW, it became increasingly hard to develop niche games anymore and attract a large audience. It's like if WoW was some huge pop star and everyone was trying to emulate them, and created a flooded market of pop music. Whereas someone might like Open world hardcore PvP with full loot and that would be compared to someone listening to powerviolence (just an obscure subgenre), there isn't a million bands making it, but it will always attract a small crowd who enjoy that type of thing. As the definition of MMORPG changes, so do the developers willing to make the classic definition of one. So over time it has slowly changed into other genres being called an MMORPG.
Don't really know where I was going with that, but the overall idea is the genre isn't dying, it's just too flooded and needs something to change to make developers interested in making AAA MMORPG's again.
i have to remind people that China and Korea MMORPGs still work well and make ton of money , and better quality than any indie MMORPG of west , why don't just buy the products instead of make one ?
MMORPGs have been dying for a long time. It kind of happens when a game completely blows everything else out and the industry scrambles to replicate that success. Just looking at the MMORPG genre from a publishing/developing standpoint the industry is just finally leaving the " Copy WoW " era. It is why you don't see any AAA development in this genre anymore, since publisher's no longer believe that the " WoW formula " is an easy way to make money. Not to mention, that the mobile market has blown up and a lot of publishers are focused on making money there.
My personal opinion on the future is skeptical. I don't know that smaller developers can make it in this genre with the long development cycles. Over the last 17 years there has been only 1 success story (CCP) of a developer starting from scratch.
I see the opposite. We have so many MMOs in different genres doing classic themepark to full blown sandbox yet some people says MMOs are dying, I would like to know why, because I don't see what they see.
if you see the opposite why'd your thread headline say the opposite? make your thread be about what you are trying to say.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
My two cents while saying upfront that I don't think MMOs are dying at all, petty definition arguing or not.
I honestly think that the Survival and MOBA genre took elements from MMOs, cut away all the downtime and crap, and therefor created more appealing games.
People want to live in a virtual world where choices matter and there is emergent gameplay. They just go to the Survival genre, where there is way more player interaction, spontaneous gameplay and 'living' than in any MMO released in the last dozen years.
People want to PVP and develop a character. MOBAs give you just that, but without all the nonsense surrounding it. No gear so the playing field is fair, no world to traverse just to get to the action. Just pure PVP and skilltrees to develop per match.
MMOs have been torn apart and their unique elements have been used to create new genres that do these elements better. And I'll be honest, I thought I would hate the Survival genre but with DnL going full fantasy I am amazed at how much it feels like what I always envisioned MMOs would become, just on a smaller scale. And that is just a matter of time, before maps become worlds and 70 players per server becomes 700.
And PVP? I'll play a MOBA any time over some instanced battleground, or even worse, some clusterfk, zerglike, siege nonsense that some here call 'hardcore.'
I'm still playing MMOs, for I love the scale of it all, both in players and world. But purely distilled, fun gameplay? I think they have been beat by the genres mentioned above and when Survival games grow in scope and depth I'm afraid I'll be moving over.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
today we see that moba games push the new trend of online gaming. I guess, that it is one of reasons. Modern players prefer session games more than MMO like WOW, LI2 and etc. Look at WOT, it is MMO too, I guess. However, it is a session game like dota2, lol, smite and etc.
Comments
If you notice, he never actually states his own opinion. I've tried getting him to give us his definition of an MMO, but he refuses. He will only ever link to other peoples opinions or websites and only when it is in opposition to someone else on this site. Classic troll behaviour.
It is why he always uses this sites games list when engaging in discussions about the definition of MMO, whilst ignoring:
- The English language
- The games that defined the genre
- The definitions given by the founding fathers of the genre (Garriott and Koster)
- This websites editor stating the games list was flawed
He is only out to troll and deliberately uses flawed evidence.The same gameplay eventually becomes boring.
Very easy difficulty hurts long term play, it might be fun short term to slaughter a huge bunch of mobs but without a challenge people tire a lot faster.
And the cashshops have gotten so bad that they totally mess up any form of balance.
Cheating is of course never good in a multiplayer game but I think these are the 3 reasons people leave the genre.
The reason why so few new MMORPGs are in the making is partly because of the high price and partly because the developers have figured out that Wow clones stopped making money and trying something new is a risk, you might loose your huge investment. When players are losing interest in the genre as well that discourage more devs.
That said, the genre is not well but being not well is not the same as dying.
"Last time i check, PS2 is a MMORPG by the classification of THIS site. http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list)" is a fact about this site.
Whether the classification is right or wrong is irrelevant to the fact that it is listed as "MMORPG" on this site's game list. If you think that it is wrong, take it up with the sys op.
Let me see ... how can i be ignoring the english language when it is what I use to respond to you?
Games that defined the genre .. well according to whom? I would argue that based on whatever the game list here (or go to massively overpower or any other MMO sites), those games changes.
Definitions given by Garriot and Koster .. sure i ignore them. They are has-beens and no longer relevant. It is like asking Shakespeare for advice of how to make The new Avenger's movie.
This website editor .... they can state whatever .. but a list is a list. If they change the list, i will cite them differently. Promise.
Before that happened .. do you agree that the statement "this site game list classifies PS2 as a MMORPG" is a self-evident 100 percent accurate fact?
Where's the clear cut progression with in the last 10 years? Zip. That's all these modern mmos do is cater to draw in a bigger audience via convenience.. that's it. Money.
I've seen no clear cut progression in the last 10 years. All I've seen solo-centric mmos to draw in the biggest crowd; the biggest sales. Sometimes you need to break the mold once awhile... and tbh.. none have done that due to monetary reasons.. you say MMO's are evolving? Are they hell. The companies don't really care about you.. you're just a sales number my friend.. and as long as you get your mmo fix of entertainment have you cared either? probably not.
I certainly would like to be right in everything. Who doesn't? Don't tell me you like to be wrong. But i have a wife, so I am in the wrong all the time. Luckily, when it comes to stating facts about MMOs, I am doing pretty well, at least in this case.
Games that defined the genre - this is easy, just look at the first load of games that were called MMOs. Before them, the genre didn't exist. After them, the phrase "massively multiplayer online" came into existence specifically to define them. It doesn't matter what came afterwards.
Garriott came up with the term MMORPG. It should be self-evident that ignoring him is idiotic. Koster, whilst not the inventor of the term, is never-the-less one of the top experts in the genre and helped to define it. Again, it should be self-evident that ignoring him is stupid.
Yes, a list is a list. But, you using it as evidence when the creator of the list has told us it is flawed is, again, idiotic.
Finally, yes, you have successfully managed to quote the flawed list on this website. Good for you. Doesn't really mean much. If you search hard enough, you can find a website that will back up any claim you want to make, because people can just make up anything they want and post it on the net. If you want to use something as evidence that you are right, it needs to have some sort of authority and actually be correct.
Apart from having fun trolling these forums, I'm curious if there is any other reason why you back the objectively incorrect side of this argument? Is there a point you're trying to make?
Let me teach you.
"Game list on this site classified PS2 as a MMORPG" is a fact. You can check the list at http://www.mmorpg.com/games-list. Anyone who can read should not disagree. It is self-evident, again, to those who can read.
"PS2 is a MMORPG" is an opinion. See the difference? I never claim that "PS2 is a MMORPG". However, I assert that "Game list on this site classified PS2 as a MMORPG". Even if you disagree with their classification, it does not change the fact that they classify PS2 as such.
If you have more problems with logic and what the word "fact" means, I am here to help!
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/You cant understand the difference between a MMORPG and a MMOFPS, you basing your "facts" on what mmorpg.com lable PS2, play the damn game...jesus, It's like somome driving a old junk car and wrote Corvette on the sides and you think It's a corvette.
Gosh .. you really need a elementary school lesson in logic. Did you read that i say PS2 is a MMORPG?
What i said is "PS2 is classified as a MMORPG on the game list here". Tell me .. what is wrong with this statement.
Note that i did not endorse nor condemn the classification. I just stated what it is. Can you tell the difference now?
If not, i would be more than happy to give you another lesson. In fact, this forum is fun ... full of people who cannot distinguish between a factual stating of someone else's opinion to an opinion.
Now i can add "i disagree", but whether or not i do, is irrelevant to the truthfulness of the statement "Rhoklaw states that the Earth is flat".
If the industry were dying, it would be like the VHS tapes. Companies would start drying up and until there was one. For those who don't know. The one closed up shop recently. Like all analogies, it's not perfect, but the death throes of companies has happened gazillions of times.
I self identify as a monkey.
So please stop it with your word twisting and "logic".
This site does classified it as a MMORPG. What do you mean by "to me" that is a fact. Show me the evidence that it is not so?
Can you read the game list here?
In fact, tell me, do you disagree that on this site's game list, the label "MMORPG" is put to the game planetside 2? If you do, i have an elementary school i can recommend to you.
I rather have THEIR facts on their OWN game than this gaming site general classification.
So by all mean you just keep trucking in your Ford escort with Corvette letters painted on the sides If it makes you feel any better.
Many flavors of MMO does not mean that the genre is surviving. It means the developers do not know what they are doing and so they are testing the waters. When a subgenre does extremely well, it becomes its own major Genre (like MOBA) which means a lot of games have their PvP Stripped to oblivion and have to deal with the scrutiny of MOBAs.
When a game's system and core rules can be circumvented through spending real money on it, it is the equivalent as playing Dungeons and Dragons and telling the Dungeon Master "I will pay you $10 if you change my critical failure of 1 into a critical roll of 20" and before you know it... a single player in the campaign has circumvented all the rules and now the DM is rich.
Doesn't it sound like favoritism?
Worse part is everyone else at the table has to put up with that table...
Since the DM favors money, everyone else suffers.
That is what happens today.
I can ask a class of students "How would it feel if you were to play Checkers and each time your opponent made a wrong move, he could pay money to the developer of the game to take back his move until he beats you? How about paying money in Monopoly to add one or subtract one from the die roll to not land on a property with four houses and a hotel?
The student will say "well then it is no longer a game because games have rules for both players to follow"
However, when students talk about F2Ps, they say
"Oh developers do that because they need money, so its still a game, even though players are doing the exact same thing"
They do this, because at the end of the semester when they are failing...
Their families along with their lawyers try to first plead with the schools for a change of grade and then upon failure, try to threaten for a lawsuit... School is a game. Do whatever you want, and then pay or threaten the right person to have that F transformed into an A. Who needs education or skill? Its the 4.0 on paper that matters!
Sorry, that happens frequently in the U.S
As long as people accept a double-standard and support the double-standard by paying into it, be it a game, or any other entity for their own personal gain, what you see is what you get. Sorry, but its true. Games get the people they deserve and people get the games they deserve.
Everyone in this forum can recall at least one time that someone tries to scheme you out of your money in real life, but its amazing how when it comes to entertainment, the very same people support the very same schemes in a digital format that they would directly and continuously in real life.
I also think development of NEW MMORPG's might be dying. At least the old definition of an MMORPG. The problem is the high investment cost mixed with how segregated the community is on what specific features they all like. Someone will never be able to make a game that appeals to everyone, and the MMORPG genre is turning into sub-genres of music or at least certain types of music. If you take music genres for an example, there are people who will listen to anything (compare to WoW players) or people who listen to specific niche genres of music that they enjoy (compare to some specific niche mmorpg genre). Once MMO's became big after WoW, it became increasingly hard to develop niche games anymore and attract a large audience. It's like if WoW was some huge pop star and everyone was trying to emulate them, and created a flooded market of pop music. Whereas someone might like Open world hardcore PvP with full loot and that would be compared to someone listening to powerviolence (just an obscure subgenre), there isn't a million bands making it, but it will always attract a small crowd who enjoy that type of thing. As the definition of MMORPG changes, so do the developers willing to make the classic definition of one. So over time it has slowly changed into other genres being called an MMORPG.
Don't really know where I was going with that, but the overall idea is the genre isn't dying, it's just too flooded and needs something to change to make developers interested in making AAA MMORPG's again.
My personal opinion on the future is skeptical. I don't know that smaller developers can make it in this genre with the long development cycles. Over the last 17 years there has been only 1 success story (CCP) of a developer starting from scratch.
My two cents while saying upfront that I don't think MMOs are dying at all, petty definition arguing or not.
I honestly think that the Survival and MOBA genre took elements from MMOs, cut away all the downtime and crap, and therefor created more appealing games.
People want to live in a virtual world where choices matter and there is emergent gameplay. They just go to the Survival genre, where there is way more player interaction, spontaneous gameplay and 'living' than in any MMO released in the last dozen years.
People want to PVP and develop a character. MOBAs give you just that, but without all the nonsense surrounding it. No gear so the playing field is fair, no world to traverse just to get to the action. Just pure PVP and skilltrees to develop per match.
MMOs have been torn apart and their unique elements have been used to create new genres that do these elements better. And I'll be honest, I thought I would hate the Survival genre but with DnL going full fantasy I am amazed at how much it feels like what I always envisioned MMOs would become, just on a smaller scale. And that is just a matter of time, before maps become worlds and 70 players per server becomes 700.
And PVP? I'll play a MOBA any time over some instanced battleground, or even worse, some clusterfk, zerglike, siege nonsense that some here call 'hardcore.'
I'm still playing MMOs, for I love the scale of it all, both in players and world. But purely distilled, fun gameplay? I think they have been beat by the genres mentioned above and when Survival games grow in scope and depth I'm afraid I'll be moving over.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer