CoE seems to be morphing into a Star Citzen level of epic project. The deliverables are starting to split into multiple parts, each becoming a mini-project in itself.
Now that the alpha testing phase is no longer included in the Prologue (which will now start just before the Exposition phase), I guess that paves the way for selling Alpha Early Access !
Mr. Walsh's detailed explanation of the "Cone of Uncertainty" also gives the current estimates a broad margin of error in advance. Will we see the eventual launch before 2021 ?
Perfectly happy to concede that the original timeline was not realistic. The incessant drama about 'competency' is what is ridiculous. It is Kickstarter, don't freak out over the timeline, it is almost guaranteed to be missed, usually by huge margins. Everyone is acting like this is unexpected.
Heh, you missed the entire 'release date drama' where 18 months to release was actualy 18 months to alpha due kickstarter not having a form field for other game states but release.....
Perfectly happy to concede that the original timeline was not realistic. The incessant drama about 'competency' is what is ridiculous. It is Kickstarter, don't freak out over the timeline, it is almost guaranteed to be missed, usually by huge margins. Everyone is acting like this is unexpected.
Heh, you missed the entire 'release date drama' where 18 months to release was actualy 18 months to alpha due kickstarter not having a form field for other game states but release.....
Oh, I didn't realize that. Thank you for clarifying. Their timeline makes a lot more sense then.
There's nothing at all to hold a developer to. People can talk about personal responsibility all they like, and I agree, but it doesn't excuse a system that's ripe for predatory marketing schemes all because you guys like to think of yourselves as too smart to fall for marketing (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary permeating throughout our lives).
This is an issue with Kickstarter, or maybe crowdfunding in general, not the individual company that is making use of the rules as they stand.
My suggestions for improving the system has always been focused on the crowdfunding system itself. It allows folks to mislead the public. That's the issue. A more objective and less marketing-hype assessment of the product is a good thing.
Perfectly happy to concede that the original timeline was not realistic. The incessant drama about 'competency' is what is ridiculous. It is Kickstarter, don't freak out over the timeline, it is almost guaranteed to be missed, usually by huge margins. Everyone is acting like this is unexpected.
Heh, you missed the entire 'release date drama' where 18 months to release was actualy 18 months to alpha due kickstarter not having a form field for other game states but release.....
Oh, I didn't realize that. Thank you for clarifying. Their timeline makes a lot more sense then.
Jeromy said that their timeline is 100% correct and they're exactly where they should be at this point.
It's just the schedule that had to be revised recently...
There's nothing at all to hold a developer to. People can talk about personal responsibility all they like, and I agree, but it doesn't excuse a system that's ripe for predatory marketing schemes all because you guys like to think of yourselves as too smart to fall for marketing (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary permeating throughout our lives).
This is an issue with Kickstarter, or maybe crowdfunding in general, not the individual company that is making use of the rules as they stand.
My suggestions for improving the system has always been focused on the crowdfunding system itself. It allows folks to mislead the public. That's the issue. A more objective and less marketing-hype assessment of the product is a good thing.
Sure but, again, you can't help the helpless. You're speaking about helping a fraction of people that's so small that it's inconsequential. You give me a product and I'll tell you how they mislead the public. Are you telling me that you think it's reasonable to do something like sue McDonald's for making you fat? That's the level of ridiculousness we're talking about now.
This reminds me of a funny story. So in Canada we had this awesome commercial about the North American House Hippo. So any reasonable person would and should have gotten that. Well my sister in-law, who is a tad slow, thought that it was a real thing.... for like a decade! Then when she actually found out it wasn't real she was heartbroken. Again, there is a VERY small percentage of people who would have a problem understanding the risks associated with crowdfunding. Of those people, only a small fraction would actually back it. For instance, something like 7% of American adults believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows so if we were to copy/paste that number, then CoE would have a total of 700 people backing the project who are completely clueless. Of those people, I'm sure many will get refunds.
As a Canadian speaking to an American, I should probably point out that you've got 99 problems and crowdfunding ain't 1.
Perfectly happy to concede that the original timeline was not realistic. The incessant drama about 'competency' is what is ridiculous. It is Kickstarter, don't freak out over the timeline, it is almost guaranteed to be missed, usually by huge margins. Everyone is acting like this is unexpected.
Heh, you missed the entire 'release date drama' where 18 months to release was actualy 18 months to alpha due kickstarter not having a form field for other game states but release.....
I don't recall that drama / clarification, you have a link to that in the Kser communications or is that one of their famous Discord conversations?
Regardless KSer intentionally wanted devs to publish their projected "release" date hence no available options for "weasel word" milestones which lack any definitive meaning.
Released in 18 months means exactly that, no private interpretation required.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh, I didn't realize that. Thank you for clarifying. Their timeline makes a lot more sense then.
Kickstarter was used just to get a prototype for needs of additional funding round(s) thus the 'release date' refered to release of that prototype/alpha.
Regardless KSer intentionally wanted devs to publish their projected "release" date hence no available options for "weasel word" milestones which lack any definitive meaning.
...
That was before Jeromy Walsh arrived on the KS scene. He seems to have elevated the concept of "retcon" to a whole new level !
There's nothing at all to hold a developer to. People can talk about personal responsibility all they like, and I agree, but it doesn't excuse a system that's ripe for predatory marketing schemes all because you guys like to think of yourselves as too smart to fall for marketing (despite plenty of evidence to the contrary permeating throughout our lives).
This is an issue with Kickstarter, or maybe crowdfunding in general, not the individual company that is making use of the rules as they stand.
My suggestions for improving the system has always been focused on the crowdfunding system itself. It allows folks to mislead the public. That's the issue. A more objective and less marketing-hype assessment of the product is a good thing.
Sure but, again, you can't help the helpless. You're speaking about helping a fraction of people that's so small that it's inconsequential. You give me a product and I'll tell you how they mislead the public. Are you telling me that you think it's reasonable to do something like sue McDonald's for making you fat? That's the level of ridiculousness we're talking about now.
This reminds me of a funny story. So in Canada we had this awesome commercial about the North American House Hippo. So any reasonable person would and should have gotten that. Well my sister in-law, who is a tad slow, thought that it was a real thing.... for like a decade! Then when she actually found out it wasn't real she was heartbroken. Again, there is a VERY small percentage of people who would have a problem understanding the risks associated with crowdfunding. Of those people, only a small fraction would actually back it. For instance, something like 7% of American adults believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows so if we were to copy/paste that number, then CoE would have a total of 700 people backing the project who are completely clueless. Of those people, I'm sure many will get refunds.
As a Canadian speaking to an American, I should probably point out that you've got 99 problems and crowdfunding ain't 1.
You mean the McDonald's who now has to list nutritional information on their menus and the packaging of their food items??? That McDonald's?
From the FDA's website: "As required by statute, FDA’s final rule for nutrition labeling in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will provide consumers with clear and consistent nutrition information in a direct and accessible manner for the foods they eat and buy for their families. Posting calories on menus and menu boards and providing other nutrient information in writing in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will fill a critical information gap and help consumers make informed and healthful dietary choices."
For emphasis, because I've used almost the exact same wording in my arguments here: "FDA’s final rule for nutrition labeling in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will provide consumers with clear and consistent nutrition information in a direct and accessible manner for the foods they eat and buy for their families. "
For emphasis, because I've used almost the exact same wording in my arguments here: "FDA’s final rule for nutrition labeling in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will provide consumers with clear and consistent nutrition information in a direct and accessible manner for the foods they eat and buy for their families. "
So are you contending that the reason that American's are fat is that they simply didn't know that food like McDonald's was bad for them? Is it your belief that putting calorie counts on menus throughout America will solve the problem of obesity? Nope!! Again, you can't help the helpless. If someone chooses to actually eat at McDonald's on a regular basis and gets fat, then that is a decision that they themselves have made. So should we be going a step further and restricting the amount of McDonald's that someone can buy? Like maybe we give all Americans a special debit card that only allows them to purchase McDonald's once a month. That's effectively what you're suggesting with crowdfunding. You're suggesting that there needs to be some sort of law or governance of the industry, but the thing is that it's such a small, insignificant number of people that you're trying to protect that doing something like I suggested above would probably be a much more effective use of governments time and money. Again, there's 99 problems and crowdfunding ain't 1.
There's also psychopaths in the world that will ignore rules to steal or cheat. Because you "can't help the helpless" and these folks will always try, should we just avoid attempting to prevent such crimes, or attempting to discourage them from committing such crimes through legislation? No.
You're basically saying "hey, some people will actively ignore clear information when presented, so there's no reason to require any real consistency or clarity from developers when asking for public funding." What?
The wild west doesn't work. Never has, never will. The sooner governments learn that that fact applies digitally as well, the better.
More apropos: if the developers are being 100% honest and objective in their estimates, then a framework to require such honesty and objectivity would have no effect on their crowdfunding campaigns, correct?
There's also psychopaths in the world that will ignore rules to steal or cheat. Because you "can't help the helpless" and these folks will always try, should we just avoid attempting to prevent such crimes, or attempting to discourage them from committing such crimes through legislation? No.
You're basically saying "hey, some people will actively ignore clear information when presented, so there's no reason to require any real consistency or clarity from developers when asking for public funding." What?
The wild west doesn't work. Never has, never will. The sooner governments learn that that fact applies digitally as well, the better.
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves. There are already plenty of laws in place to protect consumers from predatory businesses. There was already one crowdfunding company who was sue by the state.
What you're suggesting is taking away the right for people to choose. Again, you're solving a problem that ISN'T a problem. Please, if you have some silver bullet that shows that this is a problem them please show us there. Otherwise, you're just making a mountain out of a molehill. You're suggesting that Kickstarter creates predatory businesses, but there really is no evidence of that. Actually, I'd suggest that you could find more instances on a daily basis of predatory business practices in your news feed. The point is that you're suggesting that government time and money needs to be spent to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
And the confusion about timelines for development provides a clear basis for why the framework is needed.
You're citing entirely different genres and much, much smaller scopes as ample evidence that crowdfunding works for MMORPGs, yet you have no evidence at all to suggest that there's any consistent track record for crowdfunded MMORPGs to have even released a full product as of yet. The only consistency within this specific scene has been confusion, spin, and delays.
It's not taking away anyone's right to choose by simply suggesting they should have more verifiable and objective information prior to choosing. I mean, unless you mean people who want to make a decision without first reviewing such information. Providing a framework for consumers to review an unbiased and clear view of the developer behind the project and their vision and timeline for said project prevents them from choosing to support said project? Umm, why would you be against that?
As an aside- there's plenty of precedence for laws to help consumers protect themselves. Warnings on cigarette and alcohol packaging, choke hazard warnings, the list is quite lengthy. And they all started for one reason: to protect the consumer and provide warnings and information in a clear and concise manner. These also have the added effect of helping inoculate these businesses against lawsuits regarding these items. Honesty and forthrightness tend to end in a win-win for anyone on the up and up.
Oh, I didn't realize that. Thank you for clarifying. Their timeline makes a lot more sense then.
Kickstarter was used just to get a prototype for needs of additional funding round(s) thus the 'release date' refered to release of that prototype/alpha.
Thanks for digging that up. While I made no comment in that thread I do recall this controversy and it was a case of several key details were either misrepresented or omitted on the actual KSer campaign and clarified in their company communication channels which many people never saw.
Too late now, its press forward and see what eventually comes out. I actually want to see this game made, I just don't believe it can be done for $3M.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That $3M pays for the MVP aka investor demo aka alpha release aka... whatever Jeromy decides to call it next.
It also apparently pays for the ElyriaMUD development, as well as the turn-based Kingdoms of Elyria game, both of which are before the alpha of CoE in the timeline.
CoE's design calls for a "living, breathing world" with a permanently active population of 100K per server, which will be a mix of players and NPC's. When you logout, your character stays in the world, it just becomes one of the NPC population. The power of SpatialOS will make all this possible. Not a trivial exercise though.
Now, which western publisher or venture capitalist has dropped $20M or $30M or more on a fantasy MMORPG project in the last few years ? Or any MMORPG project, for that matter, let alone one with a somewhat "unconventional" game design like CoE ? ? ?
Buuut, Tencent or Snail or Nexon may be interested. Many of them are flush with cash.
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
You're totally right. I actually think that there were supposed investigations going on with Star Citizen like 2 years ago, from which there were precisely zero charges. This is what I'm saying, though, apart from being shitty at planning, they're doing what they said they would do. If someone feels otherwise, I can give you some government offices that you can follow up with to express your concerns and I'm sure they'll make sure the company is doing what they said they would, just not on schedule.
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
Careful, there are time limits on charge backs and the timer may have started with the announcement of the new timeline.
Better get any requests underway within 90 to 120 days.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
You're totally right. I actually think that there were supposed investigations going on with Star Citizen like 2 years ago, from which there were precisely zero charges. This is what I'm saying, though, apart from being shitty at planning, they're doing what they said they would do. If someone feels otherwise, I can give you some government offices that you can follow up with to express your concerns and I'm sure they'll make sure the company is doing what they said they would, just not on schedule.
The schedule IS part of the deal though. If you are delaying delivery by a year plus... you are not meeting your commitment. One side doesn't get to unilaterally change the deal. The deal was to deliver X product in Y time. So I have no problem with people willingly leaving their money with CoE after the large delay was announced, but since CoE was NOT delivered as promised the consumer should have an option to withdraw their end is the deal (the money). It would be best if CoE offered these people refunds, but in the absence of that the consumer can easily charge back the purchase. If they for some reason paid cash... that's more difficult but small claims court is an option and IMHO an easy win as no product was delivered.
We just need people to use the tools available to hold companies accountable for doing what they say they will do when they say they will do it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
Careful, there are time limits on charge backs and the timer may have started with the announcement of the new timeline.
Better get any requests underway within 90 to 120 days.
Agreed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves.
There are plenty of truth in advertising laws on the books (just like immigration). We just need to enforce them. If a business promises you X in Y time and does not deliver, there are mechanisms in place to pursue legal remedy.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
You're totally right. I actually think that there were supposed investigations going on with Star Citizen like 2 years ago, from which there were precisely zero charges. This is what I'm saying, though, apart from being shitty at planning, they're doing what they said they would do. If someone feels otherwise, I can give you some government offices that you can follow up with to express your concerns and I'm sure they'll make sure the company is doing what they said they would, just not on schedule.
The schedule IS part of the deal though. If you are delaying delivery by a year plus... you are not meeting your commitment. One side doesn't get to unilaterally change the deal. The deal was to deliver X product in Y time. So I have no problem with people willingly leaving their money with CoE after the large delay was announced, but since CoE was NOT delivered as promised the consumer should have an option to withdraw their end is the deal (the money). It would be best if CoE offered these people refunds, but in the absence of that the consumer can easily charge back the purchase. If they for some reason paid cash... that's more difficult but small claims court is an option and IMHO an easy win as no product was delivered.
We just need people to use the tools available to hold companies accountable for doing what they say they will do when they say they will do it.
Well if they actually promised to deliver it by that date then that's probably the biggest bonehead move I've ever seen. I don't see where they did that though. Can you link? Usually they make use of the risks section to add in that whole caveat regarding sliding delivery dates, but they don't overtly do it for CoE, but they DO promise to publish and update their schedule, which they did. I don't see the promised release date though.
Comments
Now that the alpha testing phase is no longer included in the Prologue (which will now start just before the Exposition phase), I guess that paves the way for selling Alpha Early Access !
Mr. Walsh's detailed explanation of the "Cone of Uncertainty" also gives the current estimates a broad margin of error in advance. Will we see the eventual launch before 2021 ?
Jeromy said that their timeline is 100% correct and they're exactly where they should be at this point.
It's just the schedule that had to be revised recently...
Sure but, again, you can't help the helpless. You're speaking about helping a fraction of people that's so small that it's inconsequential. You give me a product and I'll tell you how they mislead the public. Are you telling me that you think it's reasonable to do something like sue McDonald's for making you fat? That's the level of ridiculousness we're talking about now.
This reminds me of a funny story. So in Canada we had this awesome commercial about the North American House Hippo. So any reasonable person would and should have gotten that. Well my sister in-law, who is a tad slow, thought that it was a real thing.... for like a decade! Then when she actually found out it wasn't real she was heartbroken. Again, there is a VERY small percentage of people who would have a problem understanding the risks associated with crowdfunding. Of those people, only a small fraction would actually back it. For instance, something like 7% of American adults believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows so if we were to copy/paste that number, then CoE would have a total of 700 people backing the project who are completely clueless. Of those people, I'm sure many will get refunds.
As a Canadian speaking to an American, I should probably point out that you've got 99 problems and crowdfunding ain't 1.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Regardless KSer intentionally wanted devs to publish their projected "release" date hence no available options for "weasel word" milestones which lack any definitive meaning.
Released in 18 months means exactly that, no private interpretation required.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Too lazy/unconcerned to find some links, but here is one with a summary, quotes and more links:
http://www.mmorpg.com/chronicles-of-elyria/columns/kinks-in-the-communication-1000011212
From the FDA's website: "As required by statute, FDA’s final rule for nutrition labeling in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will provide consumers with clear and consistent nutrition information in a direct and accessible manner for the foods they eat and buy for their families. Posting calories on menus and menu boards and providing other nutrient information in writing in chain restaurants and similar retail food establishments will fill a critical information gap and help consumers make informed and healthful dietary choices."
So are you contending that the reason that American's are fat is that they simply didn't know that food like McDonald's was bad for them? Is it your belief that putting calorie counts on menus throughout America will solve the problem of obesity? Nope!! Again, you can't help the helpless. If someone chooses to actually eat at McDonald's on a regular basis and gets fat, then that is a decision that they themselves have made. So should we be going a step further and restricting the amount of McDonald's that someone can buy? Like maybe we give all Americans a special debit card that only allows them to purchase McDonald's once a month. That's effectively what you're suggesting with crowdfunding. You're suggesting that there needs to be some sort of law or governance of the industry, but the thing is that it's such a small, insignificant number of people that you're trying to protect that doing something like I suggested above would probably be a much more effective use of governments time and money. Again, there's 99 problems and crowdfunding ain't 1.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You're basically saying "hey, some people will actively ignore clear information when presented, so there's no reason to require any real consistency or clarity from developers when asking for public funding." What?
The wild west doesn't work. Never has, never will. The sooner governments learn that that fact applies digitally as well, the better.
The problem is that what you're suggesting is not that you should put laws in place to prevent psychopaths from being on the street, you're suggesting that laws be put in place to protect people from themselves. There are already plenty of laws in place to protect consumers from predatory businesses. There was already one crowdfunding company who was sue by the state.
What you're suggesting is taking away the right for people to choose. Again, you're solving a problem that ISN'T a problem. Please, if you have some silver bullet that shows that this is a problem them please show us there. Otherwise, you're just making a mountain out of a molehill. You're suggesting that Kickstarter creates predatory businesses, but there really is no evidence of that. Actually, I'd suggest that you could find more instances on a daily basis of predatory business practices in your news feed. The point is that you're suggesting that government time and money needs to be spent to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You're citing entirely different genres and much, much smaller scopes as ample evidence that crowdfunding works for MMORPGs, yet you have no evidence at all to suggest that there's any consistent track record for crowdfunded MMORPGs to have even released a full product as of yet. The only consistency within this specific scene has been confusion, spin, and delays.
It's not taking away anyone's right to choose by simply suggesting they should have more verifiable and objective information prior to choosing. I mean, unless you mean people who want to make a decision without first reviewing such information. Providing a framework for consumers to review an unbiased and clear view of the developer behind the project and their vision and timeline for said project prevents them from choosing to support said project? Umm, why would you be against that?
As an aside- there's plenty of precedence for laws to help consumers protect themselves. Warnings on cigarette and alcohol packaging, choke hazard warnings, the list is quite lengthy. And they all started for one reason: to protect the consumer and provide warnings and information in a clear and concise manner. These also have the added effect of helping inoculate these businesses against lawsuits regarding these items. Honesty and forthrightness tend to end in a win-win for anyone on the up and up.
Too late now, its press forward and see what eventually comes out. I actually want to see this game made, I just don't believe it can be done for $3M.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That $3M pays for the MVP aka investor demo aka alpha release aka... whatever Jeromy decides to call it next.
It also apparently pays for the ElyriaMUD development, as well as the turn-based Kingdoms of Elyria game, both of which are before the alpha of CoE in the timeline.
CoE's design calls for a "living, breathing world" with a permanently active population of 100K per server, which will be a mix of players and NPC's. When you logout, your character stays in the world, it just becomes one of the NPC population. The power of SpatialOS will make all this possible. Not a trivial exercise though.
Now, which western publisher or venture capitalist has dropped $20M or $30M or more on a fantasy MMORPG project in the last few years ?
Or any MMORPG project, for that matter, let alone one with a somewhat "unconventional" game design like CoE ?
?
?
Buuut, Tencent or Snail or Nexon may be interested. Many of them are flush with cash.
If I had donated significant money to CoE and was discouraged because of the newly announced massive delay, I would have no problem simply doing a charge back if they refused a refund. If people wanted to leave their money in, that's cool too but it should be THEIR choice.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You're totally right. I actually think that there were supposed investigations going on with Star Citizen like 2 years ago, from which there were precisely zero charges. This is what I'm saying, though, apart from being shitty at planning, they're doing what they said they would do. If someone feels otherwise, I can give you some government offices that you can follow up with to express your concerns and I'm sure they'll make sure the company is doing what they said they would, just not on schedule.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
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Better get any requests underway within 90 to 120 days.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We just need people to use the tools available to hold companies accountable for doing what they say they will do when they say they will do it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well if they actually promised to deliver it by that date then that's probably the biggest bonehead move I've ever seen. I don't see where they did that though. Can you link? Usually they make use of the risks section to add in that whole caveat regarding sliding delivery dates, but they don't overtly do it for CoE, but they DO promise to publish and update their schedule, which they did. I don't see the promised release date though.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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