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why pve is better

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    RufusUO said:
    When I first read the title, I had a strong suspicion that this was a troll thread.

    After looking through the pages and seeing the OP disappear after p1, I suspect it was intended to spark flame wars between others.

    Resist the bait, friends, resiiiiiiist!
    why? flame wars are fun. It is not like there are a lot of new MMOs to talk about here, unless you count Destiny and games like that. 
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    too easy pve is bad. see gw2, its a good game, spvp/wvw is fun but pve is very easy... look at ragnarok online, pve is fun because its more dangerous...some map has mvp that can come to u..win everything get bored 
    Phry
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    too easy pve is bad. see gw2, its a good game, spvp/wvw is fun but pve is very easy... look at ragnarok online, pve is fun because its more dangerous...some map has mvp that can come to u..win everything get bored 
    That would be a good argument, if Ragnarok Online was a more popular game than GW2, as it stands i don't even know if Ragnarok Online is even in the top 20 games, i haven't tried the game however so i don't know why Ragnarok Online is unpopular except perhaps that its a really old game? tbh all i know is that it was a bit similar to maple story, which is/was a 2d sprite game. :/
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,803
    Most of the time people choose the path of least resistance in PVE...At level 10 you could fight that level 15 mob where you have a chance to die, or you could just crush level 5 mobs all day without having to even think...msot people that say PVE is too easy choose the level 5 route and dont go after more difficult mobs.
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Most of the time people choose the path of least resistance in PVE...At level 10 you could fight that level 15 mob where you have a chance to die, or you could just crush level 5 mobs all day without having to even think...msot people that say PVE is too easy choose the level 5 route and dont go after more difficult mobs.
    Usually fighting the higher mobs means longer recovery time between fights plus most of the time the experience received from killing a higher isn't even worth it. Why would a player waste 10 mins killing two level 15 NPC's when he could plow through a dozen in less time for the same experience?

    image
  • netglennetglen Member UncommonPosts: 116
    Even on a free privately run MMORPG like Project 1999, there is no longer any demand for PvP except from a few squeaky angry players. The blue PvE server is thriving while the red PvP server barely has any population.  PvP is a dead concept in MMORPGs but there are plenty of dedicated shooters for your so called leet needs.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    PVE= creating friends
    PVP= creating enemies

    Pretty tough to decide which is better long term and for the entirety of the game.I played pvp extensively for a lot of years and even after joining mmorpg's i was still playing more pvp.

    It became a no brainer for me,the pvp community was angrier more hostile and more cheating.The PVE community was hit n miss but offered a much better CHANCE at a nice long term environment for gaming.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,096
    Wizardry said:
    PVE= creating friends
    PVP= creating enemies

    Pretty tough to decide which is better long term and for the entirety of the game.I played pvp extensively for a lot of years and even after joining mmorpg's i was still playing more pvp.

    It became a no brainer for me,the pvp community was angrier more hostile and more cheating.The PVE community was hit n miss but offered a much better CHANCE at a nice long term environment for gaming.
    The friends I made playing PvP games seem to be much deeper and last through many games.  They may be fewer in quantity but higher in quality... in my experience

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Come on, Iselin, you're usually better than that ;)
    It's pretty simple... the mob usually doesn't kill you over and over again, doesn't camp your graveyard, doesn't follow you around in low level areas.
    You don't sound as if you have a lot of experience with PvP games...
    Yeah, I just started with UO beta 20+ years ago. My experience is quite short indeed.

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  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Wizardry said:
    PVE= creating friends
    PVP= creating enemies

    Pretty tough to decide which is better long term and for the entirety of the game.I played pvp extensively for a lot of years and even after joining mmorpg's i was still playing more pvp.

    It became a no brainer for me,the pvp community was angrier more hostile and more cheating.The PVE community was hit n miss but offered a much better CHANCE at a nice long term environment for gaming.
    The friends I made playing PvP games seem to be much deeper and last through many games.  They may be fewer in quantity but higher in quality... in my experience
    Exactly, Good luck surviving a FL PvP MMO without friends...

    Wizardry, of course the PvP community was angrier ... They have more risk, more at stake and more to lose

    You can't just go AFK and eat your food then go back to pulling mannequins for experience lol


    image
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    too easy pve is bad. see gw2, its a good game, spvp/wvw is fun but pve is very easy... look at ragnarok online, pve is fun because its more dangerous...some map has mvp that can come to u..win everything get bored 
    That is because Ragnarok is an old game and all the whining we got after GW2s first beta week when the difficulty actually was just right. They nerf it down like no tomorrow since and whenever a new zone comes out with even a minimal challenge people whine.

    It is also possible that Japanese are less whiny then westerners about difficulty.

    We did BTW write a long list stating GW2s difficulty was good but there were so many times more whiners that we were chansless. And more then a few of them were on this forum (still mad on them).
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,789
    too easy pve is bad. see gw2, its a good game, spvp/wvw is fun but pve is very easy... look at ragnarok online, pve is fun because its more dangerous...some map has mvp that can come to u..win everything get bored 
    GW2 PVE wasn't always easy. They nerfed the shit out of it and somehow it still is painfully hard for folks.

    Flame Legion Shaman use to be hard at level 5. Now it dies in a matter of seconds



    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Torval said:
    Loke666 said:
    The hard thing is to get the AI just right, you don't want it to be better then human players after all, just similar or just below.

    I think enough people would enjoy it, not as many as enjoyed Wow of course but still enough to make a pretty good profit if the rest of the game is good.
    Do you remember the Guild Wars patch where henchie AI was outdoing players and mobs? You could take henchies out and they would faceroll the content for you. Alesia could keep a party healed.

    Gaile Gray made some statement or the other that basically mirrors your post.
    Hmm, I remember it getting better but I probably quit before it got truly good.

    I do know that beating Shiro with just henchies (no other players and no heroes) was way easier in the last Faction mission though. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    This thread should be titled "Why what I like is better than what you like".  It's bullshit, just like that concept.
    Not really. 

    Since the majority of the players prefer PvE that does not mean PvE is the superior playstyle but that MMORPGs generally do PvE a lot better then PvP. And there are several times as many PvErs as PvPers even if the PvE people actually PvP in other genres like FPS games.

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    cameltosis
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Loke666 said:


    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    Don't think "we" will accept anything on this forum ... unless "we" here means you and few friends of yours. 
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 
    Maurgrim
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 
    What happens in MOBA's however is largely irrelevant, it's like saying Players in the WoW battlegrounds should not be allowed to respawn when killed because in CS:GO you only have one life per game, there just isn't any crossover making it a ridiculous argument.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 

    there is no point to progression in PvP games.  In the end it is not different than playing an MOBA.  No story, no world, just one guy with a club endlessly beating another guy with a club with no point.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Horusra said:
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 

    there is no point to progression in PvP games.  In the end it is not different than playing an MOBA.  No story, no world, just one guy with a club endlessly beating another guy with a club with no point.
    isn't it funny that a game with no point (LoL) has more active players and make more money than those who have a point?

    That ties into question of may be what is pointless is MMO, because the point is what players find fun, not some hypothetical objects that have to fit in some stories or lore. You may as well say any sports has no point. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Loke666 said:
    Not really. 

    Since the majority of the players prefer PvE that does not mean PvE is the superior playstyle but that MMORPGs generally do PvE a lot better then PvP. And there are several times as many PvErs as PvPers even if the PvE people actually PvP in other genres like FPS games.

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    What?  No, it's bullshit.  Some people like PvE, some people like PvP.  Neither one is objectively "better".  It's personal preference.
    Yes, but if people like PvP in other genres but not MMOs that tells us something, particularly if it is a huge group doing that. How many Wow players do only PvE in Wow but play Overwatch?

    PvP can be awesomely fun but few MMOs have had good PvP. The ones that actually had good PvP (like DaoC and Guildwars) actually have way higher percentage of PvP players while games cateering for PvE like Wow have a small percentage.

    Loke666 said:

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    Don't think "we" will accept anything on this forum ... unless "we" here means you and few friends of yours. 
    I assume that we could agree so far at least, how to improve it is another matter.

    But then again, feel free to disagree if you think MMO PvP already is perfect and can't be improve.
    StoneRoses
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Rarley do I check the names of discussion creators, but when I do it's because the OP is made of classic material like this one.

    OP I tip my hat. I salute you. You just 2 shot the entire mmorpg.com pve community.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    i create more friend in pvp than pve
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Loke666 said:

    I assume that we could agree so far at least, how to improve it is another matter.

    But then again, feel free to disagree if you think MMO PvP already is perfect and can't be improve.

    It is also possible that MMO PvP is NOT perfect, but it cannot be improved, and should be killed. No one says every flawed implementation can be improved. Some should just die. 
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