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Are we fed up with these survival games?

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,529
    edited July 2017
    In my honest opinion, I rather enjoy the sandbox survival games, because they offer a lot of what I enjoy about gaming. A decent amount of PvE, loads of gathers and crafting and a small community. MMOs are no longer the driving force of online gaming. Sure, they will still make MMOs for many years, but not like they used to.

    We all have our own personal desires when it comes to what we like in our games. I for one think 95% of PvP games are garbage due to consistent cheating, ganking, exploiting, griefing and of course, my favorite, F2P cash shop shenanigans.
    GolelornAzaron_Nightblade

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    If the systems are crude now and see little to no progress in refining them should we continue to encourage that? Should we encourage developers of emerging sub-genres to perpetuate developing crude systems and then letting them languish?
    I don't think we "should" do anything. If a dev produces a game i like, i play it. Otherwise not. There is enough entertainment that i do not feel necessarily to "encourage" anything or letting anything "languish". Plus, i doubt $20 from me makes any difference anyway.
      If ambivalence and fatalism work for you great. It doesn't for me.


    Yeah .. they work great regarding to MMO.

    On another note, how are you changing the MMO industry lately? Get a dev to make your version of a AAA MMO yet? Get all the players to stop being toxic yet? 

    Heck .. are you changing the minds even with the small number of people on this forum yet?


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,778
    You always seem to start off with your square looking character in your square undergarments with a square stick, square rock and string in front of you so you can make an square axe for chopping square trees..... Standard !

    It's too much like my square job !!! 
    DMKano
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    You always seem to start off with your square looking character in your square undergarments with a square stick, square rock and string in front of you so you can make an square axe for chopping square trees..... Standard !

    It's too much like my square job !!! 
    how different is that start from 'hey bro glad you can make it, the target is to the west, here is your gun, save us!' lol

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,045
    Why would I be "fed up" with games I'm in no way forced to play?
    TorvalKyleranwaynejr2Azaron_Nightblade
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    I am going to break this all down more concretely.

    1. MMOs have a standard formula that they work from with key game mechanics. They rarely ever deviate from this. When your character is created the first thing you do is grab a quest, you then go to that location to perform usually a battle but sometimes you talk to someone, you then return to the quest giver and you get XP and money, you need XP to increase in level and you have classes. The entire MMO game (as in ALL its features) do not go to far beyond this core orbit.

      In a survial game most of them fall around this orbit. Doesnt have leveling, doesnt have classes, you have to gather stone,iron and wood usually from day one. You get hungry and need water. HOWEVER, the orbit that goes around that baseline is MUCH larger than the equivalent orbit described above in MMOs. As an example, in imperium galactic survival I am working on finding the mats I need for a warp drive so I can build a space ship to leave the ship I am on. Those mats I have to fight for, that is light years away from having to gather wood. In other words the core in a survial game is small of which everything else revolves around. in an MMO however, the core makes up nearly 100% of the game itself.

    2. MMOs like to be a fictional genre of Fantasy, almost never deviates from this. Survival however, thrives on different fictional genres (Subnautica vs 7 days to die as an example)


    maybe this illustration will illuminate more.




    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,918
    SEANMCAD said:
    I am going to break this all down more concretely.

    1. MMOs have a standard formula that they work from with key game mechanics. They rarely ever deviate from this. When your character is created the first thing you do is grab a quest, you then go to that location to perform usually a battle but sometimes you talk to someone, you then return to the quest giver and you get XP and money, you need XP to increase in level and you have classes. The entire MMO game (as in ALL its features) do not go to far beyond this core orbit.

      In a survial game most of them fall around this orbit. Doesnt have leveling, doesnt have classes, you have to gather stone,iron and wood usually from day one. You get hungry and need water. HOWEVER, the orbit that goes around that baseline is MUCH larger than the equivalent orbit described above in MMOs. As an example, in imperium galactic survival I am working on finding the mats I need for a warp drive so I can build a space ship to leave the ship I am on. Those mats I have to fight for, that is light years away from having to gather wood. In other words the core in a survial game is small of which everything else revolves around. in an MMO however, the core makes up nearly 100% of the game itself.

    2. MMOs like to be a fictional genre of Fantasy, almost never deviates from this. Survival however, thrives on different fictional genres (Subnautica vs 7 days to die as an example)


    maybe this illustration will illuminate more.




    All I can say is you've been playing the wrong MMOs. 


    waynejr2postlarval

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,657
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    If the systems are crude now and see little to no progress in refining them should we continue to encourage that? Should we encourage developers of emerging sub-genres to perpetuate developing crude systems and then letting them languish?
    I don't think we "should" do anything. If a dev produces a game i like, i play it. Otherwise not. There is enough entertainment that i do not feel necessarily to "encourage" anything or letting anything "languish". Plus, i doubt $20 from me makes any difference anyway.
      If ambivalence and fatalism work for you great. It doesn't for me.


    Yeah .. they work great regarding to MMO.

    On another note, how are you changing the MMO industry lately? Get a dev to make your version of a AAA MMO yet? Get all the players to stop being toxic yet? 

    Heck .. are you changing the minds even with the small number of people on this forum yet?


    I participate in things I enjoy and support them with my time and resources.

    I don't need to see the results of change. I affect change by presenting a perspective or asking a question. That's all I want to need to do.  I've already affected change because no one can read that and not process the quandary. They have a perspective. I have one, or have questioned a perspective. Once read a person has to reconcile that with their own perspective. That's my goal. Critical thinking.

    I don't need to control other people. I don't need them to believe what I believe to be validated. I do feel compelled to share my perspective and encourage others to do the same.

    In the same way I don't need others to believe in or like the way I game, I'm not responsible for solving the human condition. I may share with people how I think they can find that answer, but I'm not personally responsible for fixing it all myself. I do, however, feel free to say something if I think someone is acting inconsiderate and unkind. I think we all need that sometimes.

    So with regards to the topic, yes I think the current system implementations of survival games are crude. They could easily be better, more engaging, and provide better entertainment because the industry has two or three decades of experience and history to draw from. So I would encourage people to consider how the systems could be better and provide that feedback. That was my original point.
    Jean-Luc_PicardlaseritKyleran
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited August 2017
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    I am going to break this all down more concretely.

    1. MMOs have a standard formula that they work from with key game mechanics. They rarely ever deviate from this. When your character is created the first thing you do is grab a quest, you then go to that location to perform usually a battle but sometimes you talk to someone, you then return to the quest giver and you get XP and money, you need XP to increase in level and you have classes. The entire MMO game (as in ALL its features) do not go to far beyond this core orbit.

      In a survial game most of them fall around this orbit. Doesnt have leveling, doesnt have classes, you have to gather stone,iron and wood usually from day one. You get hungry and need water. HOWEVER, the orbit that goes around that baseline is MUCH larger than the equivalent orbit described above in MMOs. As an example, in imperium galactic survival I am working on finding the mats I need for a warp drive so I can build a space ship to leave the ship I am on. Those mats I have to fight for, that is light years away from having to gather wood. In other words the core in a survial game is small of which everything else revolves around. in an MMO however, the core makes up nearly 100% of the game itself.

    2. MMOs like to be a fictional genre of Fantasy, almost never deviates from this. Survival however, thrives on different fictional genres (Subnautica vs 7 days to die as an example)


    maybe this illustration will illuminate more.




    All I can say is you've been playing the wrong MMOs. 


    perhaps. I played EQ2 for 4 years. I had three characters and my primary was a crafter. I pretty much did everything the game had to offer at the time other than frequent raids.

    The month I quit I had said this 'wouldnt it be cool if there was something in the game in which the entire guild had to work together to make as well as use, like a catapult you would use in a raid'. a few weeks after saying that I found a game that basically did exactly that. never been back since

    Having experience for a long time both standard MMOs and Survival games I can tell you from direct experience that the variety in the survial genre is CONSIDERABLY larger than the variety in MMOs both within the games themselves and the choice of genres.
     I can also say with confidence that said games (survial) are mostly deeper then most MMOs in content as well.

    I should mention the REASON I went to MMOs in the first place was because of depth of content at the time was better than single player. The REASON I havent been back is because the depth of content in single player is now considerbly deeper then it was back in the day. its a direct line

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Torval said:

    I participate in things I enjoy and support them with my time and resources.

    I don't need to see the results of change. I affect change by presenting a perspective or asking a question. That's all I want to need to do. 
    lol .. you count forum pvp as "affect change"? Don't tell me you think you are changing minds here.
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,391
    Survival games have become a blend of MMO, RTS, FPS, and RPG. I think there are some great parts, but then I think there are some bad parts. The genre is still pretty young, and I look forward to seeing if they are able to blend those genres together more effectively.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Golelorn said:
    Survival games have become a blend of MMO, RTS, FPS, and RPG. I think there are some great parts, but then I think there are some bad parts. The genre is still pretty young, and I look forward to seeing if they are able to blend those genres together more effectively.

    I don't think it is about the blending but about the specific gameplay hooks. Look at player unknown battleground ... it is not a virtual world per se .. since there is no persist-ency over time. Some of the mechanics (like you have to go towards the center area) has no "lore" justification (in fact, there is no lore) .. but it is fun.

    It is a good, and popular game without any MMO and virtual world baggage. 
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,657
    edited August 2017
    Torval said:

    I participate in things I enjoy and support them with my time and resources.

    I don't need to see the results of change. I affect change by presenting a perspective or asking a question. That's all I want to need to do. 
    lol .. you count forum pvp as "affect change"? Don't tell me you think you are changing minds here.
    I didn't say changing minds. YOU did. I said affect change. Once a new variable is introduced into a system it is no longer the same. It has been changed. Just asking the question is enough to make someone process the possibility and accept or reject it. That has changed the status quo where previously that decision may not have been made.

    I've even affected change in you because you considered my argument serious enough of a threat to your premise that you felt compelled to rebut it. The power of truth compels you! :lol:
    KyleranCecropia
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Torval said:
     
    I've even affected change in you because you considered my argument serious enough of a threat to your premise that you felt compelled to rebut it. The power of truth compels you! :lol:
    wait .. rebuttal is "change"? Did i change my position? Did the MMO industry change? You have a very trivial, non-consequential definition of "change". But i guess you need to take a win from somewhere.

    So you admit no mind is being changed here, and the industry go on as before no matter what you say? I understand. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,918
    Torval said:
     
    I've even affected change in you because you considered my argument serious enough of a threat to your premise that you felt compelled to rebut it. The power of truth compels you! :lol:
    wait .. rebuttal is "change"? Did i change my position? Did the MMO industry change? You have a very trivial, non-consequential definition of "change". But i guess you need to take a win from somewhere.

    So you admit no mind is being changed here, and the industry go on as before no matter what you say? I understand. 
    Perhaps it is  because you have never changed your mind you believe others to be incapable of doing so?

    Torval and I have often been at odds over many topics, but he along with many others have convinced me to reevaluate several of my long held beliefs.

    I may not appear to easily agree, but I always consider well thought out arguments.

    Heck, I'm even following some of your advice and trying out games outside the MMORPG genre. 

    The list is about 30 games long and I'm working through the first one. I've already loaded up 2 more, but still haven't broken through my one game at a time paradigm.

    Baby steps...

    B)


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Kyleran said:

    Perhaps it is  because you have never changed your mind you believe others to be incapable of doing so?



    No. It is more like reading here, and no one's mind is really changed. Do you sudden accept the broaden definition of MMO now? Or now you think f2p is great?


  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,708
    Hell no! I vastly prefer these as a fun sandbox experience over the toxic cesspools that MMO's with similar features always turn out to be. I usually play them with a few friends, or on a server with a ruleset I like. :smiley:

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,708
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    If the systems are crude now and see little to no progress in refining them should we continue to encourage that? Should we encourage developers of emerging sub-genres to perpetuate developing crude systems and then letting them languish?
    I don't think we "should" do anything. If a dev produces a game i like, i play it. Otherwise not. There is enough entertainment that i do not feel necessarily to "encourage" anything or letting anything "languish". Plus, i doubt $20 from me makes any difference anyway.
      If ambivalence and fatalism work for you great. It doesn't for me.


    Yeah .. they work great regarding to MMO.

    On another note, how are you changing the MMO industry lately? Get a dev to make your version of a AAA MMO yet? Get all the players to stop being toxic yet? 

    Heck .. are you changing the minds even with the small number of people on this forum yet?


    I participate in things I enjoy and support them with my time and resources.

    I don't need to see the results of change. I affect change by presenting a perspective or asking a question. That's all I want to need to do.  I've already affected change because no one can read that and not process the quandary. They have a perspective. I have one, or have questioned a perspective. Once read a person has to reconcile that with their own perspective. That's my goal. Critical thinking.

    I don't need to control other people. I don't need them to believe what I believe to be validated. I do feel compelled to share my perspective and encourage others to do the same.

    In the same way I don't need others to believe in or like the way I game, I'm not responsible for solving the human condition. I may share with people how I think they can find that answer, but I'm not personally responsible for fixing it all myself. I do, however, feel free to say something if I think someone is acting inconsiderate and unkind. I think we all need that sometimes.

    So with regards to the topic, yes I think the current system implementations of survival games are crude. They could easily be better, more engaging, and provide better entertainment because the industry has two or three decades of experience and history to draw from. So I would encourage people to consider how the systems could be better and provide that feedback. That was my original point.
    How are they not improving? O.o
    Have you seen the update Conan Exiles is getting this Wednesday? Or how much has been added to 7 Days to Die since those early days? Granted, some of the cheap clones out there are probably a mess, but the big titles have been making some good progress. :D 

    Of course it's entirely possible none of their features appeal to you. In which case each to their own and all that! :P

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • MikaelJordanMikaelJordan Member CommonPosts: 20
    I'm pretty much still interested in the survival games. However, what got me bored is they focus too much on the concept that keeps the survival game basic and just goes around the core of "staying survival". I would be much happier in a survival game I can survive and have more things to do like recruiting NPC, that I can feel less lonely and actually it mixes between survival, strategy, and RPG.
    Azaron_Nightblade
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    I'd love a Survival MMORPG with a huge open world. I can see the genre evolving in that direction.

    Funcom could have a hell of a go at it with the Conan IP
    TheScavengerGolelorn

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 377
    alot of survival games are pretty fun to play, until the pvp destroys that. And the lack of real cheat-protection that enables people to teleport into bases and wreck them for example.
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