Alright, Caspian, let's dance

slagathore · August 2017

The ink is barely dry from the dev journal where Caspian doubles their project's timeline and now they announce a "for show" jousting feature that isn't even on the long-ass list of features Caspian said they still have to build.

And now I see on their home page that you can gift Elyria to others?

He complains of how fans are partly to blame for the slipping of the schedule because he's had to spend so much time interacting with them or trying to put out fires (that he usually starts), but he is always on the forums and their Discord bullshitting with people and they can find the time to go to PAX knowing they had already slipped their schedule?

The guy clearly loves the attention and cash-grabbing more than getting work done. Mismanagement all over the place. No wonder he isn't attracting any talent; they see through his bullshit and don't want their professional names associated with it.

The point to my rant..

On their forums I asked why jousting wasn't on their list of features Caspian listed in the "State of Elyria" dev journal and why they are working on it when they have far more fundamental and important features to get done and the post got removed for "Game Bashing".

I've never bashed the game, but let me show you what bashing really looks like:

@Caspian, you are a great idea guy but you straight up suck balls at running a company. You have over-promised and under-delivered on nearly everything that has come out of your mouth, and the worse part is you always point fingers at someone or something else when it happens. You are the leader of your company, it is your fault when promises are broken no matter where the responsibility lies and when you try to deflect it makes you look weak and desperate to keep an image that you lost a long time ago but fail to see it.

SpottyGekko · August 2017

Jeromy Walsh is well on his way to becoming an industry legend !

He heads a studio with a million dollar plus budget, is giving presentations at GDC and already has everyone calling him "Caspian" !

It's the age of instant celebs, I guess...

StaalBurgher · August 2017

slagathore said:

you are a great idea guy but you straight up suck balls at running a company. You have over-promised and under-delivered on nearly everything that has come out of your mouth, and the worse part is you always point fingers at someone or something else when it happens. You are the leader of your company, it is your fault when promises are broken no matter where the responsibility lies and when you try to deflect it makes you look weak and desperate to keep an image that you lost a long time ago but fail to see it.

Seems pretty hyperbolic and personal to me. Try posting that on any regular news site about a columnist and see how quickly you get 'moderated'.

Eluwien · August 2017

I have to agree with OP.

CoE cought eye - and piles of money - with a product promise that was already sufficient as it was a year ago. Now it has grown to a pile of extra promises, while the delivery stagnates to ever further in the future.

This is not the product that I bought and paid for. And yes, its the fault of the management of the company and no one else.

YashaX · August 2017

slagathore said:

You have over-promised and under-delivered on nearly everything that has come out of your mouth, and the worse part is you always point fingers at someone or something else when it happens. You are the leader of your company, it is your fault when promises are broken no matter where the responsibility lies and when you try to deflect it makes you look weak and desperate to keep an image that you lost a long time ago but fail to see it.

Reading this reminds me so much of a certain other controversial leader, lol.

Kyleran · August 2017

YashaX said:

slagathore said:

You have over-promised and under-delivered on nearly everything that has come out of your mouth, and the worse part is you always point fingers at someone or something else when it happens. You are the leader of your company, it is your fault when promises are broken no matter where the responsibility lies and when you try to deflect it makes you look weak and desperate to keep an image that you lost a long time ago but fail to see it.

Reading this reminds me so much of a certain other controversial leader, lol.

Richard G, Brad, Smed, Chris R, Mark J, oh just who could you mean?

Thomas2006 · August 2017

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

Iselin · August 2017

Thomas2006 said:

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

There is no new fund raising potential with the core: after a while all the pizazz the core once had gets stale. Feature creep brings new and sexy ideas to the games deliberately to hopefully, get the gullible to cough up more cash.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

The developer's inexperience shows more and more as time goes by. Don't worry, much more to come as this drags on... and on... and on.

Gdemami · August 2017

DMKano said:

This kind of puts players shitting on major studios into perspective - at least they actually deliver games.

Just 'shitting'? Why stopping there...?

CrazKanuk · August 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

The developer's inexperience shows more and more as time goes by. Don't worry, much more to come as this drags on... and on... and on.

Lack of experience is a convenient excuse. There are PLENTY of experienced developers who are or have been years behind on their initial crowdfunding estimated release dates. Furthermore, if we were to stack up the experienced devs against the industry noobs, I might actually say that the noobs have actually produced more to this point. There are a lot of MMO projects run by noobs which are further along than even the most hardened industry vet. So let's not go around blowing all these vets and throwing money at them because they did something phenomenal a decade ago.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

Ok Kanuk you're right. Substitute inexprerience with incompetence. Better?

CrazKanuk · August 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

Ok Kanuk you're right. Substitute inexprerience with incompetence. Better?

Nope! If it was that easy, then these experienced devs would look equally incompetent, no? Furthermore, if it was incompetence, then would an experienced dev not look MORE incompetent since they should know better?

I wish there was a simple solution for you. You seem intent on making this about singulars. The reality is that there is no one thing contributing to the delays on all sides of this complex equation. There's also no measure of what percentage of these delays are based on what particular problem. As I mentioned previously, for all you know, MJ could be a fucking horrible project manager and Caspian could be a great one. What we know is that there were/are seemingly simple things which have caused great delays on both sides. MJ was quoted as saying that beta was NOT months, but WEEKS away. That was a year and a half ago. So what level of incompetence does that take? Similarly, Caspian probably thought that hiring the experts he needed would be quite easy. For whatever reason that process took a year? Again, outwardly, these seem like quite trivial things, but there are likely things going on behind the scenes which we aren't aware of that have complicated things. All it illustrates, really, is how transparency can be a double-edged sword.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

Not at all. If you miss your estimates by so much you either were untruthful or incompetent. CU doesn't get excused from that. The difference is that one says(in essence):

Sorry we blew it. Here's our new plan and I hope you stick around but if you'd like a refund you can have it.

The other says:

Man you guys made me spend so much time answering questions that it's delaying the project. On top of that people just won't signup for my openings because they don't realize how great the company is. Do due to these two reasons we are delaying by a year +. Oh by the way no you cannot have a refund.

Those explain the difference in reception. The root cause in both is untruthfulness or incompetence.

Gdemami · August 2017

Armchair developer calling out someone for incompetence...?

CrazKanuk · August 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

Not at all. If you miss your estimates by so much you either were untruthful or incompetent. CU doesn't get excused from that. The difference is that one says(in essence):

Sorry we blew it. Here's our new plan and I hope you stick around but if you'd like a refund you can have it.

The other says:

Man you guys made me spend so much time answering questions that it's delaying the project. On top of that people just won't signup for my openings because they don't realize how great the company is. Do due to these two reasons we are delaying by a year +. Oh by the way no you cannot have a refund.

Those explain the difference in reception. The root cause in both is untruthfulness or incompetence.

Yup, I agree that it's nice that CU has a refund for those who may want to get one. That's definitely an added benefit. Again, though, saying the root cause is either, or both, of untruthfullness and/or incompetence is believing that you have waaaaaay more insight into the project than what you do. This is one reason transparency doesn't work.

StaalBurgher · August 2017

I have no idea whether the game WILL in fact realise anywhere near what they promise but the basis for most of the harassment on this forum is pretty thin.

Taking much longer to recruit than anticipated has nothing to do with their competency to produce a game. This seems a trivial concern and goes a long way to account for most of the delay.

As for the dealing with the community, I think the point here is that the responsibility has taken more time than they anticipated rather than Caspian being resentful of it. What probably has cost the most time is the deliberate spread of misinformation. Take this harping about a 'rude post', I suspect that it was directly aimed at people that bombard forums with misinformation and deliberately over dramatized issues. He probably shouldn't have posted that but it isn't proof of anything other than he got annoyed by what are essentially trolls.

holdenfive · August 2017

Caspian was here on the MMORPG forums being a dick when this thing was just in concept phase. For all intents and purposes, it's still in concept phase or pre pre pre pre alpha. I said from the start the guy was a show pony and he's done absolutely nothing since then to diminish my initial appraisal of his worth and general persona. I don't even follow this 'development' anymore but still everytime I turn around this guy is acting like a baboon. Get a t shirt that fits you right, learn a little bit of diplomacy and maybe focus on delivering on a fraction of what you've said you can. Thus far all his done is be a mouthpiece on the forms, and that's all he ever was to start with. How old is this guy, mid 40's? lol Yeah I'm sure he's gonna grow the fuck up any day now.

StaalBurgher · August 2017

I have a feeling he was merely responding in kind. Kind of hard to take that as a valid base for criticism given this forum's reputation.

Aethaeryn · August 2017

Iselin said:

Thomas2006 said:

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

There is no new fund raising potential with the core: after a while all the pizazz the core once had gets stale. Feature creep brings new and sexy ideas to the games deliberately to hopefully, get the gullible to cough up more cash.

Then it launches with the majority of their key buys already owning it. Sell while developing. . ship when the money runs out. . . dead in the water. Not saying this is true of this product but I have seen it too many times to think it is not a possibility.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

StaalBurgher said:

I have a feeling he was merely responding in kind. Kind of hard to take that as a valid base for criticism given this forum's reputation.

Except he also belittled folks in his own forums for daring to question his timeline. Links and quotes are readily available. So let's not blame the forum for him acting like an ass.

Slapshot1188 · August 2017

Aethaeryn said:

Iselin said:

Thomas2006 said:

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

There is no new fund raising potential with the core: after a while all the pizazz the core once had gets stale. Feature creep brings new and sexy ideas to the games deliberately to hopefully, get the gullible to cough up more cash.

Then it launches with the majority of their key buys already owning it. Sell while developing. . ship when the money runs out. . . dead in the water. Not saying this is true of this product but I have seen it too many times to think it is not a possibility.

That's always been a main issue with this concept. Your biggest supporters not only already paid for the game, but also for years and years of "sparks". It's not unique to COE but it's a really big issue they will face.

Azaron_Nightblade · August 2017

Thomas2006 said:

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

This is pretty much the reason why traditionally MMOs have publishers to keep devs on track. Without someone to tell them "No, you have a deadline to focus on instead of getting sidetracked" they are all over the place. :P

Octagon7711 · August 2017

They really should hire a 'fire putter outer', I mean 'spin doctor', I mean a 'community relations manager'. He's clearly over his head.

Octagon7711 · August 2017

Azaron_Nightblade said:

Thomas2006 said:

Don't you just love it when feature creep is so real that the core of the game isn't even getting attention / its base features added anymore.

I really do not think these guys can pull it off. It shows by adding little things like this instead of focusing 100% on the features and core they already have. Instead they are just jumping all over the place adding little easy things to make it look like stuff is getting done.

Word of advice is to focus on the core features you already have and get that in before adding even more fluff to that long list you already have. Otherwise this game feels like a Greed Monger 3.0 happening all over.

This is pretty much the reason why traditionally MMOs have publishers to keep devs on track. Without someone to tell them "No, you have a deadline to focus on instead of getting sidetracked" they are all over the place. :P

What? I can't come up with a great idea while drinking my beers at the local bar with the buds, drop everything and work on that instead? :-(

StaalBurgher · August 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

StaalBurgher said:

I have a feeling he was merely responding in kind. Kind of hard to take that as a valid base for criticism given this forum's reputation.

Except he also belittled folks in his own forums for daring to question his timeline. Links and quotes are readily available. So let's not blame the forum for him acting like an ass.

I doubt he responded like that to normal commentary. Nothing stops trolls posting on the game forum after all. I am pretty sure it was the standard forum warrior vitriol and other asinine comments that caused that sort of response. I agree he should not have responded but the fact that he did is no reflection on the developers intentions or capability. All it shows it is this is an owner-operation who is putting his heart-and-soul into it, not a development team working for a publishing house, and attacks that threatens its success, especially ones they see as baseless hit a nerve.

After all it is entirely possible for people to post that they think the timeline, for example, is unrealistic but inevitably they go over the top and start insinuating and speculating that it is a scam, that the devs are failing and know it and are somehow trying to cheat everyone. All of which is just baseless slander from people who have nothing to lose. The developer has everything to lose. So if there was a rude response at some point, most well adjusted people could understand that.

The amount of posts that some people spend to attack the game goes to show that they do it maliciously, not just as some 'honest' commentary.

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Alright, Caspian, let's dance

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey