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How will Pantheon be for the solo players?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
As many MMORPG.com users know, soloing is by far the most popular activity in an MMO. Even games like League of Legend or Call of Duty you can pretend the players are bots and never talk to anyone at all. Same with WoW, most of the raids you can pretend are just AI playing alongside you and never interact with people at all. This is one reason (of many) WoW became so successful, because even vanilla allowed a soloers game.

Of course, this may be a controversial topic because while many MMORPG.com users know soloing is by far the most popular activity, there is a lot of oldschool gamers here.

But a great example is Vanguard. The problem was, population past low levels (mid game) became VERY scarce. Even low levels eventually became scarce. Anyone trying the game couldn't solo anything because the vast majority of content was group focused, but there was barely anyone to group with, making people leave the game. Its not a problem early on, but for new players as the game ages, its a big problem.

So that leaves the question. How will Pantheon be for the solo players?

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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,850
    Plan on grouping a lot, otherwise probably better choices out there.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Kyleran said:
    Plan on grouping a lot, otherwise probably better choices out there.
    Ah, so its like Everquest 1 kinda where pretty much all grouping, and Vanguard?

    I don't mind grouping, but I like to group on my own and not be forced into it, always felt super antisocial to be forced to be friends with someone. And when the MMO population becomes top heavy in levels (in a skill based MMO like EVE or Ultima Online this isn't an issue as much); I always run into problems finding groups because (at least in Vanguard) the game died, and there was no one to group with after I past the early levels.

    There was very little content I could do in Vanguard since it was all group forced content, and everyone was either low levels or high levels, and not many people around my level. Definitely a population issue, but in every level based MMO they often become very top heavy.

    In EVE, I can group with ANYONE at ANY time. I think its a great example of grouping done well. I can start the game on a trial, not even 1 day in I can party with people who've played for years and do the same content and contribute to the group.

    Will Patheon be like that at all? Or will it be more like Vanguard/EQ1?

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  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 229
    edited August 2017

    Developers have been on record to say some overworld mobs would be soloable, and, I'm sure there will be crafting professions etc. that could be worked on while waiting on groups/friends/guilds, but the majority of content in Pantheon will be meant for groups.  And, similarly to EQ, just due to the nature of class interdependence, some classes will ultimately be better at soloing than others - so if that is your dealbreaker, I would choose a more solo friendly class.  But, don't plan on being able to experience all the content without having friends.

    *Edit: I'd also recommend checking out the FAQ on the forums: http://pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/

    The Q&A regarding soloing can be found under 1.4. 

    Kyleran
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Raidan_EQ said:
    Developers have been on record to say some overworld mobs would be soloable, and, I'm sure there will be crafting professions etc. that could be worked on while waiting on groups/friends/guilds, but the majority of content in Pantheon will be meant for groups.  And, similarly to EQ, just due to the nature of class interdependence, some classes will ultimately be better at soloing than others - so if that is your dealbreaker, I would choose a more solo friendly class.  But, don't plan on being able to experience all the content without having friends.
    I have a feeling you need to be good to beat those "soloable" mobs though, and patient. So if you want TERA styled soloing beating tons of mob thta would not be a good choice.

    Someone that plays well and get the pulling mechanics just right should be able to do some content but this is a group game. There are plenty of solofocused MMOs out there after all.
    Raidan_EQSinsaiEronakis
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 229
    Loke666 said:
    Raidan_EQ said:
    Developers have been on record to say some overworld mobs would be soloable, and, I'm sure there will be crafting professions etc. that could be worked on while waiting on groups/friends/guilds, but the majority of content in Pantheon will be meant for groups.  And, similarly to EQ, just due to the nature of class interdependence, some classes will ultimately be better at soloing than others - so if that is your dealbreaker, I would choose a more solo friendly class.  But, don't plan on being able to experience all the content without having friends.
    I have a feeling you need to be good to beat those "soloable" mobs though, and patient. So if you want TERA styled soloing beating tons of mob thta would not be a good choice.

    Someone that plays well and get the pulling mechanics just right should be able to do some content but this is a group game. There are plenty of solofocused MMOs out there after all.

    Agreed, and I believe it will be similar to EQ in the sense that most mobs will not be inherently designed to be soloed, but players will find creative ways too - root parking, kiting, etc. through emergent gameplay (not exploits).  I'm sure the puma that's 10 levels lower than you that gives .001% exp to the next level will be soloable though :)
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Raidan_EQ said:
    Agreed, and I believe it will be similar to EQ in the sense that most mobs will not be inherently designed to be soloed, but players will find creative ways too - root parking, kiting, etc. through emergent gameplay (not exploits).  I'm sure the puma that's 10 levels lower than you that gives .001% exp to the next level will be soloable though :)
    True, some people did solo even in the early EQ days, it was just that it wasn't a fast or easy thing to do. Heck, I did some soloing in the early days myself to see if I could do it.

    But it will be things like dungeon groups that will make or break Pantheon, that is the thing no MMO today provides well for before the endgame and the reason I at least put a $100 into this game. I miss good old dungoneering, I think the last really good below max level dungeoneering I did was in EQ2: EoF. Since then it never really been the same, the dungeons feel more added just because then as an interesting way to level up and get good gear after that.
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    It will be similar to EQ and VG soloing, definitely possible in a lot of areas but dungeons, bosses/named will all require at the minimum a small group. Class will also play a part, some classes are naturally better equipped to solo than others so if you roll a squishy class and pick the wrong area/mobs then you're going to have a bad day but half the fun if figuring that out ;)
    XodicKyleranEronakis

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  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,924
    Kilsin said:
    It will be similar to EQ and VG soloing, definitely possible in a lot of areas but dungeons, bosses/named will all require at the minimum a small group. Class will also play a part, some classes are naturally better equipped to solo than others so if you roll a squishy class and pick the wrong area/mobs then you're going to have a bad day but half the fun if figuring that out ;)
    Vanguard was highly soloable with the right classes.

    So soloers rejoice!
  • ZindaihasZindaihas Member UncommonPosts: 3,662

    I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs.  Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all?  Why not simply play a single-player game?  That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.

    I think we have become a largely anti-social society, with social media, it's easier to make friends from a distance; and that's probably the natural tendency even multi-player games.  Just solo rather than make the effort to form a group.  But grouping in an MMO makes more sense than soloing.  You can achieve greater things as a team.

    I remember the first time I played EQ, I ran around by myself for a couple hours just checking out the world.  I had no idea if you were supposed to solo or group or what.  It was all new to me.  When I started killing mobs, I attacked the easiest ones I could find to make sure I could beat them.  After a while, I noticed some of the mobs were tougher than others (like named mobs for instance).  Too tough for me to kill alone.  I guess it just naturally dawned on me that I could kill tougher mobs if I was grouped with someone than if I tried to do it by myself.  So I found a necro who was soling near me and I just struck up a conversation with him, "Hey you want to work together to kill some mobs?"  He said yeah.  And we became friends and grouped together regularly from that point on.

    Having said that, I think it's a good thing to have a fair amount of solo content in an MMO as well, because you can't always find a group, and there are times when you just like to be alone anyway.  So I'm not completely against soloing.  I just think taking the time to form a group should yield the greater rewards.

  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 438
    edited August 2017
    Zindaihas said:

    I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs.  Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all?  Why not simply play a single-player game?  That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.

    I solo because most nights, I'm sort of multi-tasking. I'm playing a game for 20 mins, then I have to take a phone call. I play for another 20 mins, then I have to stop and do something else. It goes on like this for as long as I play, with the possibility of me having to logoff and quit playing at any moment.

    So, let me ask you this. How would you feel, if I kept taking 5 or even 10 minute breaks every 20-30 minutes? How would you feel if I made my apologies and bailed on the group 20 minutes into a grind/dungeon/whatever?

    I imagine you wouldn't feel very good about it. I sure the hell don't when some jaggoff does it in my group. That's why a lot of people solo, and then play with friends or PUG on weekends or as time allows.
    onelesslightNyghthowlerCazriel
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    A challenge.

    About time.
    BitterClinger

    You stay sassy!

  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    edited August 2017
    Zindaihas said:

    I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs.  Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all?  Why not simply play a single-player game?  That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.

    <snip>


    Since I stopped playing EQ and Vanguard I prefer soloing because I can go at my own pace.  Nearly every time I get a group (PUG) the others in the group are looking to an hour's worth of content in 15 minutes.

    I realize that this may be their 145th time through this dungeon, but it is probably my 1 - 5 and I don't want to rush.  Since I don't want to try to impose my playstyle on other people I tend to solo/duo

    On a tangent - why do people continue to play the same content over and over.  I understand the EQ/Vanguard sort of grind, but EQ2/Swtor/<insert instanced snoozefest>?  After half a dozen runs I want to gouge my eyes out.  I don't of course.  I just do something else or log out (sometimes permanently).


    Edit to fix formatting. 
    onelesslight
  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,047
    As @Kilsin said, you can solo, but I imagine that if you're interested in truly experiencing Pantheon for everything it has to offer you're going to need friends. Maybe not day to day, but any achievement worth mentioning you're going to need help.

    I'd also say that if you're hoping for welfare epics as a participation trophy, it's not going to happen. I hope there is no such a thing as an "epic" unless it relates to old school EQ epics, I also hope that there are no color coded progression systems that tells you this is better than that - it should be a subjective question of "Is this better than that" versus the stat locked DPS score bullshit we currently have. 

    I can already tell I'm about to go into a rant so I'll just stop here.
  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    RPGs are great for solo play. MMORPGs are designed for playing together. It's like asking if they could add a function to a men's urinal so you could sit and pee.
    XodicNyghthowlerAegirisLeFantome
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,759
    The question at hand should not be a matter for the solo player but instead should asking, "should a MMO be made to cater as a NON mmo and that question to me at least should be very obvious.

    It is like asking,should a Sirloin steak be made to cater to a vegetarian !.

    Should a Moba be made to cater to a TCG player,should a game of Monopoly be made to cater to a person who likes baseball,yep i know seems stupid obvious but i have seen sooooooo many gamer's want a game to be what it is NOT meant to be.
    Xodic

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,759
    There is also a BIG difference from wanting a game to be MORE and a game being totally different or not what it claims to be.I have no problem with a person asking for more,i believe gamer's should ask for more because most devs are trying to sell us less.
    However i do not condone more if it means changing a game's purpose /meaning.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    For the person to ask why not play singleplayer games.

    For one. I group a lot. But I solo a lot as well. But even though I am playing solo, I still take part in the economy/social aspects of the game. 

    On top of that, singleplayer games ALWAYS have an end. MMOs do too if they get shut down, but they last for decades sometimes, constant updates, never ends, the developer never stops putting out content (unless the MMO is dead), the MMO I will NEVER lose my character as long as the game is running.

    Sure I can play Skyrim or Fallout 4. But why? Get 100 or however many hours, and BOOM beat the game. Also the AI in Skyrim and Fallout 4 is pretty crap like most games, at least MMOs have people. Also economy in singleplayer games is the worst economy you could ever ask for, not dynamic at all just pre-programmed.

    Play say WoW, with over 10k hours played...still have tons of content and blizzard constantly keeps updating the game

    Play Ark Survival...and...servers (at least the modded ones, I wouldn't play official) often shut down, many times without notice, losing multiple hours of progress. And the world is VERY small compared to a MMO game world. Also no economy or real living world in that.

    Tried playing Battlefield, but that is just doing the same thing over and over on pre-programmed maps that you repeat over and over and over. At least Planetside from SOE/Daybreak is more of an MMO and persistent but even that often ends up feeling too much the same (one side gets a continent, then its reset)

    So to sum it up...

    TLDR

    MMOs are persistent, can last for decades (singleplayer games last at most 200 hours, MMOs last tens of thousands), constant updates (skyrim and fallout 4 for example will NEVER see content updates or DLCs again from the official developers), living breathing world (singleplayer games fail this, though Ultima 7 was awesome compared to singleplayer games today), STILL take part in the economy/game world and a lot of social aspects you can't get anywhere else.

    So just because I solo, doesn't mean I'm not socializing, taking part in the economy and contributing to the game world.

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  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,519
    Hopefully brutal.


  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,724
    It will be great for them cause it'll allow them to break free from their solo player ways.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,027
    A poster above asked, why do solo players even play mmos.  A few things:

    - mmos are a cheap way to play video games, for people with no money.

    - Often you have no choice in modern mmos because of the liner nature.  I first noticed this in Rift because of the quest hub 1 quest 1 then you move to quest hub 1 quest 2.  Eventually you move on to quest hub 2 and start over...... There all like this anymore FORCED SOLO ! 

    Siug
  • lancerxxlancerxx Member UncommonPosts: 63
    BruceYee said:
    It will be great for them cause it'll allow them to break free from their solo player ways.

    Hate to break it to you I will give this game a try and no it won't break my solo playing ways  :)
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,027
    edited August 2017
    Vanilla World of Warcraft is #1 for a reason. 

    The game was SO LARGE, you had a full game for solo, and a full game for group and everything in between.  The game was released in a time where you didn't need to be politically correct, so the better stuff was when you grouped. 

    Everquest 2 could have been #1 for the same reason, but it looked like crap and ran like crap. and had disjointed zoning.


    Pantheon is the game for me because I group, but it scares me the way it's advertised "You better like to group". 

    I'll be contradicting myself here by saying everyone will be playing because we haven't had an mmo in a long time....... But it doesn't change the fact that it should have a good amount of soloing for when your not in the mood to group.  And this can last for days, no matter how hard core you are !  


  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob Member UncommonPosts: 877
    This game has the progeny system where people reroll their characters to get stronger, so those people will be around to group with as new players enter the game at a low level. 

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,321
    Zindaihas said:

    I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs.  Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all?  Why not simply play a single-player game?  That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.

    Viable soloing in MMOs is important because not everyone can find a group to play with every second they are in game.

    If Im on at off times like the middle of the night what do I do?

    If there are not enough people near my level what do I do?

    You expect people to be spamming "43 Warrior LFG BRD PST" for hours and hours?

    Ive seen it before in FF11, EQ2 and VG, it will happen here too.

    I quit playing Vanguard because I couldnt finds groups. Im not going to sit around and do nothing because I cant get a group, if I cant play the game while in the game then I am not going to play the game at all.
    onelesslight
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,178
    I remember being in EQ1 when the population started to decline and there was alot of pressure on teh devs to create a more solo experience...It wasnt long after they came up wit hthe merc system...Pantheon has the added pressure that many gamers have been soloing the past 10 years and only group occasionally.....I dont know if forced grouping will fly anymore in 2017.
    MendelKyleran
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