No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
no its not like that at all. let me step you thu
ME: I have played AAA ME: I have played Indie
ME: I have no complaints about the games I am playing now would you like to learn more?
WhatsHisFace: I have a lot to complain about the games I am playing but I dont even want to know what games you are playing and not complaining about.
WhatsHisFace: ignorance is bliss
Me: but 1. I have played such games 2. why would I play something that would make me complain instead of playing something I am very pleased with and have no complaints about?
conclusion: some of you really really really really really need to have more of an open mind about other options
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
lol .. no more arguments and you have to resort to personal attacks?
What is so gray about this question: do you play games you do not like? It is a simple question. If you do, you are silly. If you don't. Bad games are not terrible for you. Can you follow the simple logic, or do you need a "logical thinking for dummy 101" course?
I suppose when people lose their arguments, and don't want to answer questions, or cannot deal with simple logic, they can always play the "world is gray" card.
No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
no its not like that at all. let me step you thu
ME: I have played AAA ME: I have played Indie
ME: I have no complaints about the games I am playing now would you like to learn more?
WhatsHisFace: I have a lot to complain about the games I am playing but I dont even want to know what games you are playing and not complaining about.
WhatsHisFace: ignorance is bliss
Me: but 1. I have played such games 2. why would I play something that would make me complain instead of playing something I am very pleased with and have no complaints about?
conclusion: some of you really really really really really need to have more of an open mind about other options
It's very simple Sean. Nothing is perfect and we criticize the imperfections. Life is not just a bumper sticker that says "love it or leave it."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
lol .. no more arguments and you have to resort to personal attacks?
What is so gray about this question: do you play games you do not like? It is a simple question. If you do, you are silly. If you don't. Bad games are not terrible for you. Can you follow the simple logic, or do you need a "logical thinking for dummy 101" course?
I suppose when people lose their arguments, and don't want to answer questions, or cannot deal with simple logic, they can always play the "world is gray" card.
Is there room in your mind for liking some parts of something but not others?
For example: you, Sean and Wizardry all have your entertainment value for comic relief if nothing else.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It's not even about getting the highest fastest. It's not that I want to reach the top first.
It's that canned quests that say "Kill X Goblins", "Pick Up X Goblin Spear Heads", "Deliver a Letter Because I'm a Lazy *****" aren't fun for me after the first five minutes. Neither is grinding on mobs. Challenging dungeons are fun. PvP is fun. Building cities is fun. Guild politics are fun.
But none of that crap is fun if there is a huge stat gap preventing you from doing it.
I don't grind to reach the top first. I grind so that that I'm no longer forced to do content I don't find enjoyable in order to be efficient or even capable of doing the content I do. I'm not racing anyone else, just my own boredom.
Unfortunately most MMOs are so bad my boredom wins that race.
Have to agree with a few others, it sounds like your problem is with PvE and RPGs in general, not MMORPG monetization methods, past or present.
It's not even about getting the highest fastest. It's not that I want to reach the top first.
It's that canned quests that say "Kill X Goblins", "Pick Up X Goblin Spear Heads", "Deliver a Letter Because I'm a Lazy *****" aren't fun for me after the first five minutes. Neither is grinding on mobs. Challenging dungeons are fun. PvP is fun. Building cities is fun. Guild politics are fun.
But none of that crap is fun if there is a huge stat gap preventing you from doing it.
I don't grind to reach the top first. I grind so that that I'm no longer forced to do content I don't find enjoyable in order to be efficient or even capable of doing the content I do. I'm not racing anyone else, just my own boredom.
Unfortunately most MMOs are so bad my boredom wins that race.
Have to agree a few others, it sounds like your problem is with PvE and RPGs in general, not MMORPG monetization methods, past or present.
I've pointed that out to him multiple times in this thread...he confuses the rate/pace/scope of character development (becoming gods) with the method of such (performing in game tasks vs paying out of game money). Not even close to being the same topic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm not confusing the two, it's just almost no MMOs have gotten the pacing right. If almost every game is going to make it so 5-10 levels makes your character literally invincible and the few that don't make it so you still can't have any fun for the first few months of play then I think it's perfectly ok to let people swipe, swipe, swipe, on by (With the exception of EVE).
If you're going to make a crap game, might as well make it a profitable crap game. Clearly they a profiting more to swipers than you so why do you think they should go back to catering to no-lifers. You go the MOBA route (Make the game fun for everyone) or you can go the new MMO route (Make the game only fun for swipers.) Making the game only fun for no-lifers is a failed business model.
So yeah, fix the pacing or keep the swiping. That's my stance. And it's really the stance we see a lot of companies taking nowdays. A lot of the new upcoming MMOs (Star Citizen, Crowfall, etc.) promise to have lower power disparity and they are including cash shops so I guess they decided to do both. A vast improvement over the "Only no lifers get to have fun" days of EQ IMO.
@MadFrenchie - I don't even dislike PvE if it's done well. I dislike canned and repetitive PvE I'm required to do to advance. I really enjoyed the SWTOR flashpoints on their first playthroughs and even one or two of the additional playthroughs, and I think Runescape dungeoneering and Darkfall krakens were pretty sweet. I also dislike not being able to do it with my friends because level gap.
I don't like the idea of MMOs. I don't dislike the idea of RPGs. I don't dislike the idea of PVE. I strongly dislike how most MMOs currently on the market implement all of these things. I think it's time for a change. The dwindling playerbase in the genre seems to suggest a lot of other people dislike how the MMO genre is right now too.
The monetization model is not married to the quality of PvE quests, though. You're basically saying "Hey, let's make better quests," to which I say hell yes, but that does not govern the way the game is monetized. And it's not a problem exclusive or inherent to the MMORPG genre.
DA:I, for example, has a lot of these filler quests. It's neither MMORPG nor is it F2P with microtransactions.
If you have an issue with progression power gaps, then you have a problem with the vast majority of RPGs. Most are very linearly level-gated. Character stat progression has been a dominant central theme of the RPG genre for a long time. It certainly follows that MMORPGs would include such a dominant theme.
It's not married to them but here is my point with monetization:
A. If you are going to gate the the fun stuff with a power gap that requires massive amounts of boring grinding, might as well let people pay their way past it.
B. If you are not going to have a massive power gap, then people can't buy a massive power gap, in which case what exactly are this "win" they are paying for?
In either case, not a big deal to me.
Anyway. We can argue until we're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is it seems that developers are done making games for the play-to-win generation of EQ and Vanilla WoW players. You're just not the market force you used to be anymore. You are the history of MMOs, not it's future.
No. Not playing games you don't like is bliss. Is that so hard to understand?
If you have a simple mind where everything is either black or white as you seem to have, understanding would be very easy.
But in the real gray world with things that fall in between extremes it's not as simple. Like I said ignorance is bliss.
lol .. no more arguments and you have to resort to personal attacks?
What is so gray about this question: do you play games you do not like? It is a simple question. If you do, you are silly. If you don't. Bad games are not terrible for you. Can you follow the simple logic, or do you need a "logical thinking for dummy 101" course?
I suppose when people lose their arguments, and don't want to answer questions, or cannot deal with simple logic, they can always play the "world is gray" card.
Is there room in your mind for liking some parts of something but not others?
so what? In a whole, do you play games that there are more that you dislike than you like? Same difference.
A game either pass the fun threshold or not. Either i enjoy it, or not. Sure you can enjoy part .. but as whole, if the enjoyment part is smaller than the bad part ... it is a game you don't enjoy.
I don't think you get the idea that there is an overall judgment.
Anyway. We can argue until we're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is it seems that developers are done making games for the play-to-win generation of EQ and Vanilla WoW players. You're just not the market force you used to be anymore. You are the history of MMOs, not it's future.
a) isn't the function of this place is for people to argue until they are blue? It is not like anything is going to be resolved, or people are going to change their minds (abate the very rare admission of getting a fact wrong). So just enjoy the arguing (i wouldn't even use the word argument)
b) who are "you". I am certainly not the history of MMO .. since i think classical old MMOs are bad games. Modern gaming is much better. I am very glad games like not like UO and EQ anymore.
It's not married to them but here is my point with monetization:
A. If you are going to gate the the fun stuff with a power gap that requires massive amounts of boring grinding, might as well let people pay their way past it.
B. If you are not going to have a massive power gap, then people can't buy a massive power gap, in which case what exactly are this "win" they are paying for?
In either case, not a big deal to me.
Anyway. We can argue until we're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is it seems that developers are done making games for the play-to-win generation of EQ and Vanilla WoW players. You're just not the market force you used to be anymore. You are the history of MMOs, not it's future.
Sorry, but the idea doesn't hold water, because singleplayer RPGs haven't fallen into the same "buy your way through content."
Your issue is not with power gaps, it's with boring, repetitive tasks needed to progress through the power gap. That's an RPG problem.
People buy their way through MMORPG content because of the connotation that the "fun stuff" is at the end. It's also the reason some people seem so peeved at the idea that they would sink time into a hobby to progress. Well no shit, time sinks are exactly what hobbies are, so it's a natural system.
That's, coincidentally, also the reason content has traditionally been monetized. Because you pay for a game that provides you a fun way to spend your time. Folks act as if monetizing content is evil or something in the context of MMORPGs, but it's not. It's deliberately elongating the progression curve without adequate and quality content to support it, simply to attempt to squeeze more money out of gamers, that's evil. But again, that's a matter of not providing enough quality content for people to enjoy the ride, not a problem with monetizing content itself. If you want progression to solely be skill-based, or you don't want to do repetitive tasks, such as killing mobs, to progress, then you're not going to enjoy the genre whether you have to pay for items to help you skip content or the content itself. At that point, MOBAs are probably the better fit.
If we want to compare single player games to MMOs I can tall you exactly why leveling doesn't bother me in say, Skyrim.
The reason I never hated progression in Skyrim is because I step foot out into the world and its like "Ok, what do I want to do now?" In coming up with the answer to that question, in no way does my level factor into it. If I want to go do the Alduin storyline I go do the Alduin storyline. If I want to join the Dark Brotherhood I join the Dark Brotherhood. If I want to rid Skyrim of those imperial bastards who almost beheaded me for no reason, I rid Skyrim of those imperial bastards who beheaded me for no reason. The entire game is wide open to me. Sure I need to progress through storylines to reach later stages in those storylines, but that's a bit more sensible form of progression.
I step out into my average MMO and I'm like. "I want to go run dungeons with my friend." I'm only level 1 and my friend is level 50. We can't really do dungeons together. "Ok, I'd like to go PvP then." Can't do that until level 15. "Ok I grinded up to 15, let's PvP now." Oh well most people in the PvP area are max level with super good PvP gear. They can like 2 shot you in this supposedly balanced PvP area. "Fine, lets go run a dungeon my level." Closest level dungeons are level 10 and 20. Because of the power gap, one is too easy and the other is too hard. "Whatever, I guess I'll just level up." Fastest way to level is questing. What exciting quests are available today. "My prize pig needs a special apple that grows on a special hill guarded by angry spiders. Can you go gather apples for my prized pig?" FML
That is why I want to skip past content in an MMO, but not Skyrim. It's not just that the prize pig quest sucks. It's that the entire game does. I need to do X, Y, and Z just to get access to content that really should be available to me right from the start. The game tells me in what order I need to do stuff and what I can and can't do. Skyrim doesn't do that. That's why Skyrim was so much more popular and successful than ESO.
That is why I want to skip past content in an MMO, but not Skyrim. It's not just that the prize pig quest sucks. It's that the entire game does. I need to do X, Y, and Z just to get access to content that really should be available to me right from the start.
Again... your complaint comes down to the fact that your friend's character is far more developed than yours and you want to magically have your character become more powerful so you can adventure together. That's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with your expectations of what an MMORPG is.
His character got to level 50 because his character accomplished things IN GAME. Your's has not.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And when I'm the one who's level 50 and I'm pissed because I can't do content together enjoyably with my friend who just joined. And my friend who ended up joining the game just to play with me leaves because they aren't getting to play with me. Is that my reward for my in character accomplishments?
Believe me, I've been on both sides of this issue many times. And it just sucks from all angles and everyone involved. There is no reward for accomplishment. Just ridiculous power gaps.
And when I'm the one who's level 50 and I'm pissed because I can't do content together enjoyably with my friend who just joined. And my friend who ended up joining the game just to play with me leaves because they aren't getting to play with me. Is that my reward for my in character accomplishments?
Believe me, I've been on both sides of this issue many times. And it just sucks from all angles and everyone involved. There is no reward for accomplishment. Just ridiculous power gaps.
As I believe others have suggested.. perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you. Or play a game with sidekicking or mentoring. Personally, if it's a PvE game I couldn't give a crap if you paid your $100 to auto level and skip the game. As long as I don't have to use a cash shop to keep up I don't care what you do.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would suggest Warhammer: Vermintide, then. It's skill-based co-op dungeon running, basically.
ESO has the auto-scaling mechanic, sounds like it might suit you, too.
You're basically asking for auto-scaling in all MMORPGs? I don't think it will ever happen, F2P, B2P, or Sub, because that's contrary, again, to a dominant central theme to the RPG genre. You seem to have an issue with that theme. Even in The Witcher series, you can't go out and do everything at the beginning. It has levels, and you will be one-shotted.
You didn't describe singleplayer RPGs with your example, you took a very specific example of a game with auto-scaling and acted like it applied generally.
And when I'm the one who's level 50 and I'm pissed because I can't do content together enjoyably with my friend who just joined. And my friend who ended up joining the game just to play with me leaves because they aren't getting to play with me. Is that my reward for my in character accomplishments?
Believe me, I've been on both sides of this issue many times. And it just sucks from all angles and everyone involved. There is no reward for accomplishment. Just ridiculous power gaps.
As I believe others have suggested.. perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you. Or play a game with sidekicking or mentoring. Personally, if it's a PvE game I couldn't give a crap if you paid your $100 to auto level and skip the game. As long as I don't have to use a cash shop to keep up I don't care what you do.
Maybe MMORPGs aren't for you, given they all have cash shops now. Maybe you should "Go play a MOBA."
I mean, I kept hundreds of dollars of the LTI ships I was flipping in Star Citizen so I have game that I'll come out with a pretty cool advantage that I can have my friends crew gunner seats and stuff. There's hope on the horizon for me and what I want from a game. How about you?
I mean really, you go around to the subforum of every upcoming MMO on these boards and whine about RMT. I don't think you've mentioned what games are out right now that you do enjoy and haven't been "ruined by cash shops." Maybe it's time for YOU to quit.
And when I'm the one who's level 50 and I'm pissed because I can't do content together enjoyably with my friend who just joined. And my friend who ended up joining the game just to play with me leaves because they aren't getting to play with me. Is that my reward for my in character accomplishments?
Believe me, I've been on both sides of this issue many times. And it just sucks from all angles and everyone involved. There is no reward for accomplishment. Just ridiculous power gaps.
As I believe others have suggested.. perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you. Or play a game with sidekicking or mentoring. Personally, if it's a PvE game I couldn't give a crap if you paid your $100 to auto level and skip the game. As long as I don't have to use a cash shop to keep up I don't care what you do.
Maybe MMORPGs aren't for you, given they all have cash shops now. Maybe you should "Go play a MOBA."
I mean really, you go around to the subforum of every upcoming MMO on these boards and whine about RMT. Maybe it's time for YOU to quit.
Sigh.. lets stay focused on THIS thread my friend. The whining is coming most certainly from you. Complaining about MMORPGs. But to get us back on topic... specifically about are MMOs casinos:
They do most definitely have VERY significant casino elements. And any game that forces me to use them will be a game I do not play. Remember there is a HUGE difference between a cash shop and a Casino. We aren't talking about going into a cash shop and buying item X. We are talking about going into a shop and buying a pack of 10 boxes that have a slight chance of giving you item X.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah its Simply really. You want to aquire gear (go into your wallet) you want to get upgrade's to upgrade your items (dig into your wallet) you want ... yup dig into your wallet. It doesnt end, you could be digging into your wallet on most so called F2P games that are actually P2W games. You carnt do much else without doing that.
I prefered the simple Monthly sub fee and that was it. No Cash shop or anything like that. You knew what you got where you were and how much it was for the month. Now they have cash shops that are a required frequent useage (ontop of that some are greedy that they also want a monthly subscription as well) for which you usually get next to nothing or half of the benefits become worthless after a day or 2.
If they are going to have both, then people who use Cash shop route can but it would be more expensive, people who pay the monthly sub should get the cash shop stuff as drops instead. If this requires the use of differant servers then so be it, mark them and let players choose which route they want to go down.
The only reason I buy boxes is to sell them in the AH and then buy the items I need / want. If I sell $20 worth of boxes I can get 1-2 of the top items I want. The chances of getting a good item out of $20 worth of boxes is very small and that is not counting any additional upgrades.
They don't all have cash shops. There are emulators where people play for the love of the game. Pantheon and Camelot Unchained both plan to be cash shop free.
If you are anti-cash shop you pretty much had the entire genre swept out from under your feet and it's a real sad time. Probably why we see so many doom and gloom posts and bitter vets.
I know I can't stand cash shop cancer. I like my games to be about playing them not paying them.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Sigh.. lets stay focused on THIS thread my friend. The whining is coming most certainly from you. Complaining about MMORPGs.
It's VERY on topic. The whole point is that everyone is complaining MMOs are casinos. I'm saying, it's not a big deal, we've been dealing with No Lifers getting the advantage swipers do since the dawn of MMOs. With games like Star Citizen saying there will be no levels at all and Crowfall promising a lower power gap than usually based on level/gear I'm way cooler with people's ability to buy ships with cash (especially since I already have) or get little trophy forts in their trophy kingdoms, or start with land and trade in-game currency for cash in Chronicles of Elyria than I am with the way games were back in the fabled days of EQ1.
I'm upset with where games have been, and where they are right now, but I'm hopeful about what the near future holds for them. You like where MMOs have been but are upset with where they are, and where they are going. Who is the one really should be quitting here?
Comments
ME: I have played AAA
ME: I have played Indie
ME: I have no complaints about the games I am playing now would you like to learn more?
WhatsHisFace: I have a lot to complain about the games I am playing but I dont even want to know what games you are playing and not complaining about.
WhatsHisFace: ignorance is bliss
Me: but 1. I have played such games 2. why would I play something that would make me complain instead of playing something I am very pleased with and have no complaints about?
conclusion: some of you really really really really really need to have more of an open mind about other options
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
lol .. no more arguments and you have to resort to personal attacks?
What is so gray about this question: do you play games you do not like? It is a simple question. If you do, you are silly. If you don't. Bad games are not terrible for you. Can you follow the simple logic, or do you need a "logical thinking for dummy 101" course?
I suppose when people lose their arguments, and don't want to answer questions, or cannot deal with simple logic, they can always play the "world is gray" card.
It's very simple Sean. Nothing is perfect and we criticize the imperfections. Life is not just a bumper sticker that says "love it or leave it."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For example: you, Sean and Wizardry all have your entertainment value for comic relief if nothing else.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If you're going to make a crap game, might as well make it a profitable crap game. Clearly they a profiting more to swipers than you so why do you think they should go back to catering to no-lifers. You go the MOBA route (Make the game fun for everyone) or you can go the new MMO route (Make the game only fun for swipers.) Making the game only fun for no-lifers is a failed business model.
So yeah, fix the pacing or keep the swiping. That's my stance. And it's really the stance we see a lot of companies taking nowdays. A lot of the new upcoming MMOs (Star Citizen, Crowfall, etc.) promise to have lower power disparity and they are including cash shops so I guess they decided to do both. A vast improvement over the "Only no lifers get to have fun" days of EQ IMO.
@MadFrenchie - I don't even dislike PvE if it's done well. I dislike canned and repetitive PvE I'm required to do to advance. I really enjoyed the SWTOR flashpoints on their first playthroughs and even one or two of the additional playthroughs, and I think Runescape dungeoneering and Darkfall krakens were pretty sweet. I also dislike not being able to do it with my friends because level gap.
I don't like the idea of MMOs. I don't dislike the idea of RPGs. I don't dislike the idea of PVE. I strongly dislike how most MMOs currently on the market implement all of these things. I think it's time for a change. The dwindling playerbase in the genre seems to suggest a lot of other people dislike how the MMO genre is right now too.
DA:I, for example, has a lot of these filler quests. It's neither MMORPG nor is it F2P with microtransactions.
If you have an issue with progression power gaps, then you have a problem with the vast majority of RPGs. Most are very linearly level-gated. Character stat progression has been a dominant central theme of the RPG genre for a long time. It certainly follows that MMORPGs would include such a dominant theme.
A. If you are going to gate the the fun stuff with a power gap that requires massive amounts of boring grinding, might as well let people pay their way past it.
B. If you are not going to have a massive power gap, then people can't buy a massive power gap, in which case what exactly are this "win" they are paying for?
In either case, not a big deal to me.
Anyway. We can argue until we're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is it seems that developers are done making games for the play-to-win generation of EQ and Vanilla WoW players. You're just not the market force you used to be anymore. You are the history of MMOs, not it's future.
Checkmate Atheists
A game either pass the fun threshold or not. Either i enjoy it, or not. Sure you can enjoy part .. but as whole, if the enjoyment part is smaller than the bad part ... it is a game you don't enjoy.
I don't think you get the idea that there is an overall judgment.
b) who are "you". I am certainly not the history of MMO .. since i think classical old MMOs are bad games. Modern gaming is much better. I am very glad games like not like UO and EQ anymore.
Your issue is not with power gaps, it's with boring, repetitive tasks needed to progress through the power gap. That's an RPG problem.
People buy their way through MMORPG content because of the connotation that the "fun stuff" is at the end. It's also the reason some people seem so peeved at the idea that they would sink time into a hobby to progress. Well no shit, time sinks are exactly what hobbies are, so it's a natural system.
That's, coincidentally, also the reason content has traditionally been monetized. Because you pay for a game that provides you a fun way to spend your time. Folks act as if monetizing content is evil or something in the context of MMORPGs, but it's not. It's deliberately elongating the progression curve without adequate and quality content to support it, simply to attempt to squeeze more money out of gamers, that's evil. But again, that's a matter of not providing enough quality content for people to enjoy the ride, not a problem with monetizing content itself. If you want progression to solely be skill-based, or you don't want to do repetitive tasks, such as killing mobs, to progress, then you're not going to enjoy the genre whether you have to pay for items to help you skip content or the content itself. At that point, MOBAs are probably the better fit.
The reason I never hated progression in Skyrim is because I step foot out into the world and its like "Ok, what do I want to do now?" In coming up with the answer to that question, in no way does my level factor into it. If I want to go do the Alduin storyline I go do the Alduin storyline. If I want to join the Dark Brotherhood I join the Dark Brotherhood. If I want to rid Skyrim of those imperial bastards who almost beheaded me for no reason, I rid Skyrim of those imperial bastards who beheaded me for no reason. The entire game is wide open to me. Sure I need to progress through storylines to reach later stages in those storylines, but that's a bit more sensible form of progression.
I step out into my average MMO and I'm like. "I want to go run dungeons with my friend." I'm only level 1 and my friend is level 50. We can't really do dungeons together. "Ok, I'd like to go PvP then." Can't do that until level 15. "Ok I grinded up to 15, let's PvP now." Oh well most people in the PvP area are max level with super good PvP gear. They can like 2 shot you in this supposedly balanced PvP area. "Fine, lets go run a dungeon my level." Closest level dungeons are level 10 and 20. Because of the power gap, one is too easy and the other is too hard. "Whatever, I guess I'll just level up." Fastest way to level is questing. What exciting quests are available today. "My prize pig needs a special apple that grows on a special hill guarded by angry spiders. Can you go gather apples for my prized pig?" FML
That is why I want to skip past content in an MMO, but not Skyrim. It's not just that the prize pig quest sucks. It's that the entire game does. I need to do X, Y, and Z just to get access to content that really should be available to me right from the start. The game tells me in what order I need to do stuff and what I can and can't do. Skyrim doesn't do that. That's why Skyrim was so much more popular and successful than ESO.
His character got to level 50 because his character accomplished things IN GAME. Your's has not.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Believe me, I've been on both sides of this issue many times. And it just sucks from all angles and everyone involved. There is no reward for accomplishment. Just ridiculous power gaps.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
ESO has the auto-scaling mechanic, sounds like it might suit you, too.
You're basically asking for auto-scaling in all MMORPGs? I don't think it will ever happen, F2P, B2P, or Sub, because that's contrary, again, to a dominant central theme to the RPG genre. You seem to have an issue with that theme. Even in The Witcher series, you can't go out and do everything at the beginning. It has levels, and you will be one-shotted.
You didn't describe singleplayer RPGs with your example, you took a very specific example of a game with auto-scaling and acted like it applied generally.
I mean, I kept hundreds of dollars of the LTI ships I was flipping in Star Citizen so I have game that I'll come out with a pretty cool advantage that I can have my friends crew gunner seats and stuff. There's hope on the horizon for me and what I want from a game. How about you?
I mean really, you go around to the subforum of every upcoming MMO on these boards and whine about RMT. I don't think you've mentioned what games are out right now that you do enjoy and haven't been "ruined by cash shops." Maybe it's time for YOU to quit.
They do most definitely have VERY significant casino elements. And any game that forces me to use them will be a game I do not play. Remember there is a HUGE difference between a cash shop and a Casino. We aren't talking about going into a cash shop and buying item X. We are talking about going into a shop and buying a pack of 10 boxes that have a slight chance of giving you item X.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It doesnt end, you could be digging into your wallet on most so called F2P games that are actually P2W games. You carnt do much else without doing that.
I prefered the simple Monthly sub fee and that was it. No Cash shop or anything like that. You knew what you got where you were and how much it was for the month. Now they have cash shops that are a required frequent useage (ontop of that some are greedy that they also want a monthly subscription as well) for which you usually get next to nothing or half of the benefits become worthless after a day or 2.
If they are going to have both, then people who use Cash shop route can but it would be more expensive, people who pay the monthly sub should get the cash shop stuff as drops instead. If this requires the use of differant servers then so be it, mark them and let players choose which route they want to go down.
If you are anti-cash shop you pretty much had the entire genre swept out from under your feet and it's a real sad time. Probably why we see so many doom and gloom posts and bitter vets.
I know I can't stand cash shop cancer. I like my games to be about playing them not paying them.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I'm upset with where games have been, and where they are right now, but I'm hopeful about what the near future holds for them. You like where MMOs have been but are upset with where they are, and where they are going. Who is the one really should be quitting here?