Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
RMT relationships between devs and whales
blorpykins
Member RarePosts: 466
For my example I'll use Shroud of the Avatar.
When you purchase an expensive enough pledge or bundle for SotA you gain access to an area in the forums called Dev+. This paywall access forum is supposed to give you a more personal dialog with game developers and allow you access to test servers prior to changes going live. There's always been friction in the community concerning Dev+ access and the potential for finding exploits and using them for economic advantages mostly because SotA is such a RMT heavy grind.
But now it seems that the developers are giving trade information to folks with Dev+ access, and people are pissed.
Obsidian chips are used to create rare Obsidian weapons... these weapons are then used to farm Cabalists and Obsidian golems which give Obsidian chips and also drop valuable artifacts and rares... that in turn command extremely high RMT prices in the forum marketplace.
Currently in the live server, 1 Obsidian ingot can be forged from 100 obsidian chips, and that's how it's always been since SotA went live a year ago. Now the devs are telling Dev+ backers that in the next live release Obsidian ingots will require 1000 Obsidian chips per. Is this practice fair to the gamers that don't have Dev+ access? Whales are buying access to Dev+ and cahing in on every release, and now they're buying up obs chips and weps like it's nobody's business and there's a heated debate about the integrity of the developers and the viability of Dev+.
Now I'm curious to know if other games and developers put insider trading information behind paywalls.
When you purchase an expensive enough pledge or bundle for SotA you gain access to an area in the forums called Dev+. This paywall access forum is supposed to give you a more personal dialog with game developers and allow you access to test servers prior to changes going live. There's always been friction in the community concerning Dev+ access and the potential for finding exploits and using them for economic advantages mostly because SotA is such a RMT heavy grind.
But now it seems that the developers are giving trade information to folks with Dev+ access, and people are pissed.
Obsidian chips are used to create rare Obsidian weapons... these weapons are then used to farm Cabalists and Obsidian golems which give Obsidian chips and also drop valuable artifacts and rares... that in turn command extremely high RMT prices in the forum marketplace.
Currently in the live server, 1 Obsidian ingot can be forged from 100 obsidian chips, and that's how it's always been since SotA went live a year ago. Now the devs are telling Dev+ backers that in the next live release Obsidian ingots will require 1000 Obsidian chips per. Is this practice fair to the gamers that don't have Dev+ access? Whales are buying access to Dev+ and cahing in on every release, and now they're buying up obs chips and weps like it's nobody's business and there's a heated debate about the integrity of the developers and the viability of Dev+.
Now I'm curious to know if other games and developers put insider trading information behind paywalls.
Comments
Are there any other games that put insider RMT information behind paywalls for whales?
MAGA
The frenzied buying isn't to profit from in game assets, playes being encouraged (or baited) into making real life cash off of the game raises things to an entirely different level, even way beyond what goes on in Entropa Universe today.
Of course one of the first things to invade any financial system would be insider trading.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Or if you're talking about shenanigans in some early pre-release stuff that will be wiped at launch, then who cares?
People who play on the PTR or participate in open alpha or beta are gaining access to information that otherwise would not be obtainable prior to it's release. In essence, it's just like those who buy a leveling guide. They do it to gain an edge over other players. Whether such edge is free or paid for doesn't change the fact that one person has an advantage over another that would otherwise not have been the case.
Complaining about something that has gone on since the advent of video games seems silly. Reality is, there is always someone in the game with an unfair advantage over you. Always. Whether it be because some GM gifted them with the Sword of a Thousand Truths or because they've played the alpha so much that they've mapped every location in game to find the most valuable items, doesn't change the fact that they have the advantage.
Now you could do all the things that they do and even the playing field between the two of you, but now you are the player with the unfair advantage over those that don't.
Video games aren't fair. They never have been. If winning the race is your only goal, you have to get in the same water as the whales. If just merely playing the game is enough, shrug it off and just play the game. The guy that has it all within hours of release is still going to have it all within hours of release whether you do something about it or not.
While SotA still hasn't formally released yet, they announced there would be no more wipes last summer, so it has been launched in my book since then.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Better yet, just enjoy for free (assuming the game is fun) until you hit a pay wall (and some games have none .. like Marvel Heroes), then move on.
If devs want to give me free entertainment, i don't see why I should refuse (assuming the game is fun).
The gamer decides whether they enjoy playing them as presented based on their personal preferences.
Which is why one man's trash is another's treasure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Final wipe was a year ago; there will be no more wipes or rollbacks or anything like that, they'll just quietly start calling themselves a commercial release at some point. They're trying to raise money for a commercial release launch right now, actually. They call themselves early access pre-alpha because... uhm, I don't know why. If they get enough money from their SeedInvest crowdfunding thing, they'll attempt a marketing campaign and try to launch by the end of this year... nothing is firm. advertising funds for a commercial launch is what they're sayign to justify the need for the SeedInvest funds anyway...
But yeah, they've been launched and live for a year now.
1. The monetization is decent if you want to make a side income through RMT. Making a sizeable amount of ingame money that will translate into a sizeable amount of cash much more easily than other games where RMT is openly tolerated. This ontop of the fact there are no ongoing subscription fees after you buy the game is pretty decent. Not too hard to make your money back. Not too hard to make a nice little side income on top of it.
2. The community is actually pretty cool. Most people I've met in the SotA have been pretty chill, helpful, and enjoyable to talk to. It's a good game if you are looking for a friendly community and don't care too much about the game itself.
The game itself is pretty standard, and has a lot of valid criticisms. Leading me to a pretty big conclusion. If you like virtual real estate and RMT, consider SotA. Check it out when they are running a free trial promo and see what you think. If you don't like RMT, and you aren't there to just socialize, I don't see why you would touch this game with a ten foot pole. It's mediocre at best. I don't think it's quite as bad as the people blasting it say, but I certainly haven't seen it pull off much I haven't seen done better in other games other than the RMT aspect from the perspective of someone who enjoys RMT. Well, and I like the depth of the character customization. That's pretty sweet too, but it would be better complimented by a combat system that isn't so dry it literally encourages hotbar clicking.
Making cash from an online game requires a sizeable player base plus an inventory of items that are desirable to that very same audience. SotA has neither.
You can't sell an account for what you paid for it today. What do you think it's going to be like when all the whales have three of everything?
~~ postlarval ~~
But I think its stupid that they would provide insider info to 3rd parties and provide others a huge economic advantage over those who don't know for example on obsidian weapons and all that...
I would be pissed too, glad I didn't back this game.
And SotA does stand out. 100k in SotA is easier to make than the 20 silver in Wurm that has an equivalent value unless you are a high end priest with good enchantments and the fact there are no recurring fees means you don't have to play it as a 2nd job to make anything back. You can play it as casually as you want. That fact alone makes it the best title for anyone who isn't committed to putting hundreds of hours into farming gold to sell for cash but wants to be able to sell stuff on the side.
If you would like to recommend some better games that allow me to sell in-game items and currency for real cash without violating the ToS I'd be happy to hear about them.
That's just it, how many other games are so openly focused on RMT? The Dev+ perks aren't all they openly give to whales, there are entire game modes dedicated to grinding and they absolve themselves of all liability. Even if someone's account was stolen and parted out online they wouldn't intervene... RMT is allowed, sure. Hell, it's openly encouraged - the devs have stated many times they use RMT to balance the game. Yet, they assume absolutely no responsibility; none. They don't even care how old you are or where you reside so long as you do all your RMT trading in the official marketplace forums.
What other games are there that are designed specifically for RMT? As in the entire economy is setup for RMT and the devs feed the whales... this game is so fucked. I'd like to know if there are any other games that do this too.
I have no idea why people play these games unless you are one of those whales. I'd be out of that place the moment I noticed what was going on, lots of other games are waiting to be played.
If you are so unhappy, do not reward it by playing the game.
Kickstarter. The game that was pitched is not the game that was created, and it's taken years for it all to really come together and for the devs to really come out and say what things are. They're a bunch of crooks and the game is scam vehicle as I see it... For me it was shortly after final wipe, when they changed their stance on gold farming and announced that gold farming and selling gold would be ok. And then how they dialed in the single player mode to cater to gold farmers but still access the multiplayer economy for selling, and all the exploits that they'd just turn away from. I think most people from those days have quit.
I am curious to know if there are any other developers that behave this way... I'm guessing no, and that's maybe because most game developers try to make fun games, not just cash grab scams. But I could be wrong. I would like to know if there are any other games that enable this way.
Not necessary a RMT problem.
People feel gipped from every Kickstarter ever. Sometimes because they deliver truly terrible products, often because they aren't able to deliver on promises, and largely because the game people build in their heads is something no company can satisfy in 2017.
When I put money into a kickstarter I do so as a gamble. My mindset like this:
"This game sounds cool, and they might just be able to deliver on enough of their promises to make something fun playing. But if not, I won't be too upset. This money represents what I'm willing to gamble on the chances of them making a decent game, and the degree to which I believe in their ability to make one."
Consider your money put into kickstarters a gamble on the chance of a decent game rather than (what I at least would consider) the guaranteed investment into a bad one you get when you put money into almost every MMO on the market right now.
If that isn't your mindset when dealing with kickstarters, I would stay away from them entirely. They will only lead to disappointment for the most part. There are a lot of Pathfinder Onlines out there. And while it's hard to be quite as bad as Pathfinder Online it sounds like Shroud of the Avatar came pretty close for you. There is no promise there will ever be a good kickstarted MMO.
Getting angry because a kickstarter produced a bad MMO is like getting angry because you didn't make money on a slot machine.
Consider that before you buy into one again.
I think it would be awesome to have a game based around Real Money.
That's terrible advice. Supporting Kickstarter projects is great fun and it brings awesome things into the market/world that might not have ever been otherwise. The disappointment comes from shady folks that talk out of both sides of their mouth to milk money from people expecting one thing... all the while using the money for something else. It should be illegal; it's certainly unethical and unprofessional.
Once the devs put such a heavy focus on RMT, it changes the landscape. For instance, here are some basic rules posted for RMT in Shroud of the Avatar. They allow everything to be sold in game for real money, they provide no tools for safe trading or assurances and absolve themselves of any and all liability yet they tell players that if they trade anywhere but in their forums they could be banned. They provide no assistance for users that have had their accounts stolen and they don't get involved in disputes or scams. Is this a normal practice for RMT in games? And if so, which games? Being on a test server and seeing an advantage in game is one thing... being spoon fed economic advantage for RMT from behind a paywall is something completely different.
Sales of Virtual Items for Real Currency Policy
We understand that the inclusion of gold as one of the virtual goods that can be bought and sold will cause some of you concern but we believe that in the end it is just another virtual good like the others. I would like to address the main concerns we have seen.
- Inflation: As you have seen we have been monitoring VERY
carefully the influx of gold into the economy and we do not believe the
sales of gold will increase the likelihood of inflation anymore than any
other factors.
- Exploits: All the rules of enforcement related to exploits
will of course still apply. As you have seen we are very aggressive
about finding exploits and enforcing punishment of users that abuse
them.
- Competition for Resources: With our multiple modes of play
you are almost guaranteed to never be competing with someone “farming”
for gold because they will most likely be in Single Player Online mode.
- Intrusion: As you can see by the above rules we will
aggressively repel any intrusion into the game or into the main forums
of real currency transactions. We feel VERY strongly about keeping the
sanctity of our world intact.
If you see any activities occurring that go against these rules, please do not mention them or persons involved in public areas. For in-game occurrences, you can report them by right-clicking on the offending player and selecting the “Report Player” or “Report Content” options and choose “Other” from the context menu. Alternatively, you may use the /reportcontent or /reportplayer commands in the chat window.UPDATE: Added Store Credits to list of example "Real Currencies"
---------------------------------------------------
Here's a link to the posted rules.
Screwing the majority of the players seems unwise to me, whales tend to change game rather often so they risk losing the regular players for a short but sweet income. A good MMO earns money for a long time, but you risk screwing that up here (if the game actually is good, if it sucks it is probably the best way).