Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Forced grouping is actually for anti-social players

123457»

Comments

  • CirranCirran Member UncommonPosts: 6
     Why does one side have to be right and the other have to be wrong? You have folks that want to group up and folks that want nothing to do with the other players they see in game. Neither side is wrong, play the game as you like.

     I see one group that demands the other play the way they want. I know, I know "Wait a minute Cirran, I did not say that". Well in a way you did, and here's how. I see a mentality that says  "If you play in a group you should get more rewards of all types". I ask why? If you make all game content scale to group size and make rewards the same regardless of group size, who would group up? Only those that want to "socialize". Folks who want "group dynamics" get what they want and folks who want nothing to do with other players get what they want. I am curious how many folks that want "group dynamics" actually only group for the extra benefits developers give to groups.
     
     I would guess also that the biggest complaint to this idea would be  what is the point of grouping if soloing gives you the same rewards? I should get more rewards for grouping up. Again see my question above.

     I think we are seeing a slow glacial shift in the MMO landscape. I would not be surprised if we start to see developers move away from "you get more rewards in a group".

    As always, this is just my opinion. It is no better or worse than anyone else.
     
    Cirran
  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Member UncommonPosts: 230
    edited July 2017
    I sometimes group, but hate being forced to. When I'm solo I can do it at my own pace and go afk whenever I want without having to ask permission. When I group it's really only for a short while, either to help someone do something that I wouldn't mind getting done too, or to take a break from being all lone wolf.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Cirran said:
     Why does one side have to be right and the other have to be wrong? You have folks that want to group up and folks that want nothing to do with the other players they see in game. Neither side is wrong, play the game as you like.

     I see one group that demands the other play the way they want. I know, I know "Wait a minute Cirran, I did not say that". Well in a way you did, and here's how. I see a mentality that says  "If you play in a group you should get more rewards of all types". I ask why? If you make all game content scale to group size and make rewards the same regardless of group size, who would group up? Only those that want to "socialize". Folks who want "group dynamics" get what they want and folks who want nothing to do with other players get what they want. I am curious how many folks that want "group dynamics" actually only group for the extra benefits developers give to groups.
     
     I would guess also that the biggest complaint to this idea would be  what is the point of grouping if soloing gives you the same rewards? I should get more rewards for grouping up. Again see my question above.

     I think we are seeing a slow glacial shift in the MMO landscape. I would not be surprised if we start to see developers move away from "you get more rewards in a group".

    As always, this is just my opinion. It is no better or worse than anyone else.
     
    Cirran
    Because grouping inherently takes more time and effort, because you're coordinating more than just yourself.  If rewards were accrued equally thrioughout, no one would group..  Not out of any anti-social personality, but because you're automatically handicapping yourself by including variables you cannot fully control and taking time to gather said group before starting your adventuring.

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    People that like to group will group despite the rewards. Just like in rl people group and play sorts together and go to clubs simply because they like to more often than not without any added benefit other than being together with people they like doing something they like just because they like it.
    Limnic
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2017
    People that like to group will group despite the rewards. Just like in rl people group and play sorts together and go to clubs simply because they like to more often than not without any added benefit other than being together with people they like doing something they like just because they like it.
    People will generally take the path of least resistance.  People that like to group still won't do so, they'll just chat in voice channel or guild chat while they're all soloing, if that's the best way to progress through the game.  Which it would be (quite objectively so), if grouping and solo play accrued rewards at the same level and rate.

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2017
    People that like to group will group despite the rewards. Just like in rl people group and play sorts together and go to clubs simply because they like to more often than not without any added benefit other than being together with people they like doing something they like just because they like it.
    People will generally take the path of least resistance.  People that like to group still won't do so, they'll just chat in voice channel or guild chat while they're all soloing, if that's the best way to progress through the game.  Which it would be (quite objectively so), if grouping and solo play accrued rewards at the same level and rate.
    Sorry for entertainment I don't believe that. I have just seen too many times people doing something in game that goes against that simply because they like it. For entertainment people typically do not do something unless they enjoy it. Easiest path or not.

    Look at dungeons. The easiest path is to out level the dungeon but most prefer to do them and actually do them at the appropriate level.

    The least resistance idea, at least when it comes to entertainment, is a myth.

    Some will undoubtedly do that but if they enjoy grouping they will do it regardless of the least resistance idea.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    People that like to group will group despite the rewards. Just like in rl people group and play sorts together and go to clubs simply because they like to more often than not without any added benefit other than being together with people they like doing something they like just because they like it.
    People will generally take the path of least resistance.  People that like to group still won't do so, they'll just chat in voice channel or guild chat while they're all soloing, if that's the best way to progress through the game.  Which it would be (quite objectively so), if grouping and solo play accrued rewards at the same level and rate.
    Sorry for entertainment I don't believe that. I have just seen too many times people doing something in game that goes against that simply because they like it. For entertainment people typically do not do something unless they enjoy it. Easiest path or not.

    Look at dungeons. The easiest path is to out level the dungeon but most prefer to do them and actually do them at the appropriate level.

    The least resistance idea, at least when it comes to entertainment, is a myth.

    Some will undoubtedly do that but if they enjoy grouping they will do it regardless of the least resistance idea.
    No, it isn't.   Blockbuster can attest to that. 

    People run dungeons at level due to BoE items.  Running a dungeon you've out leveled does you no good when the equipment will all be useless.  Worse than useless, as you can't even sell it.

    The vast majority of folks are going to choose the most convenient way to achieve their goals.  It makes sense.  And it's also why less convenient endeavors generally yield better reards.
    Loke666

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2017
    Only if they actually enjoy it. If they don't they will do something different.

    People generally don't do things they don't like when it comes to entertainment.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2017
    Only if they actually enjoy it. If they don't they will do something different.
    It isn't binary, though.  Some folks may wish to group up as much as possible (see healer classes in many MMORPGs), but they may also spend the majority of their grinding time solo.  This is because it's more convenient, specifically when playing in short sessions, to make progress solo.  Even if we took solo and group quests with content durations that were exactly the same, doing it with a group will take longer, as you have to factor in the logistics of getting the players together into the group and then getting them all to the same location.  

    You go from relying upon one internet connection to relying upon 5+, increasing the chances of a DC that causes a stoppage in completing the content.  You go from relying upon your own ability to play your class (a rough known) to everyone's ability to play their respective classes (which, without a veteran premade, is usually a complete unknown).  You know your schedule, but you still may have real life events that interrupt your session; you don't know your groupmates, though you assume they've allotted enough time to complete the content with the group.  But how fast can the group even complete the content?  Are you DPS heavy?  Then probably pretty fast.  If you're carrying an extra tank, not so much.  All of these (and more) are issues not present with solo play, or are a known factor beforehand.

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2017
    Yes. I agree with all of that. I still say people that enjoy grouping will and do actually group despite whatever rewards or lack of them. I've seen it to many times to think otherwise.

    Most don't want to group all the time. I would also say that most don't want to solo all the time. 

    That just change that people that enjoy grouping will group despite the rewards.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Yes. I agree with all of that. I still say people that enjoy grouping will and do actually group despite whatever rewards or lack of them. I've seen it to many times to think otherwise.
    Maybe a small percentage of folks that absolutely hate soloing. But there are literally psychological studies supporting the idea that humans are hardwired to take the path of least resistance:

    “Our brain tricks us into believing the low-hanging fruit really is the ripest,” says Dr Nobuhiro Hagura, who led the UCL team before moving to NICT in Japan. “We found that not only does the cost to act influence people’s behaviour, but it even changes what we think we see.”

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2017
    Not when they doing the task for entertainment though. If they don't like it they won't do it. At least not for long

    In other areas of life being efficient is rewarded well. In entertainment the goal is entertainment. Regardless of the path if people don't like it they won't do it.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Maybe a small percentage of folks that absolutely hate soloing. But there are literally psychological studies supporting the idea that humans are hardwired to take the path of least resistance:

    “Our brain tricks us into believing the low-hanging fruit really is the ripest,” says Dr Nobuhiro Hagura, who led the UCL team before moving to NICT in Japan. “We found that not only does the cost to act influence people’s behaviour, but it even changes what we think we see.”
    Probably, they will say that they will group at max level and might even do it (or quit for another game) but the average player is greedy and lazy.

    I am a bit surprised that so many people here seems to think that the rewards should not be set after the risks though but just for the time spent in the game. I didn't think the "everyone gets a reward" mentality had gone that far.
    MadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Not when they doing the task for entertainment though. If they don't like it they won't do it. At least not for long

    In other areas of life being efficient is rewarded well. In entertainment the goal is entertainment. Regardless of the path if people don't like it they won't do it.
    The goal is the carrot at the end, it's entertaining to chase it by playing the game.  It does not preclude utilizing the path of least resistance to accomplish that goal, whether it be rare equipment, the next level, or PvPing, what have you.  Unless you're wandering aimlessly in-game, with no goal in mind but being logged in.

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Going to have to disagree.

    The goal is to be entertained. If they don't like it they won't do it for very long.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2017
    It's not entertaining to wait in town for a group, standing there staring at the shopkeepers.  It's not entertaining to wait for a DC to return.  It's not entertaining to have a player unable to play his or her role and cause repeated wipes.  At least, not as entertaining as completing content and receiving the quest reward at the end.

    You may counter that those times are filled with the raucous laughter of good friends making memories, but players aren't required to band together and endeavor the same content to speak with one another.  Guild chat, voice comms, etc. provide means by which the raucous laughter continues even if the players are playing different games!  Grouping is interesting because it's interaction with others, enabling each individual to achieve a goal, together, not reachable alone.  Whether that be unrealistically fast farming of quests or loot, dungeons that are impossible solo, or anything else, you enjoy grouping for the resulting benefits to your gameplay experience, not the logistical challenges it brings.  Still, that doesn't prevent the logistical challenges from existing when grouping is involved, and not when one plays solo.  As such, rewards should be scaled to account for this.

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2017
    It's not entertaining for me and you. It may be entertaining for whoever is doing that.

    They may be having more fun doing that than whether else they had planned or just came from.

    Just because we can't understand how someone would enjoy it doesn't mean they don't.

    Yes grouping can be interesting. And none of that changes this basic premise. Those that like to group will and are grouping, regardless of the awards.  Ones that don't aren't and ones that like it sometimes will do it sometimes. Regardless of the awards. 
    Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
    MadFrenchie
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Eldurian said:

    Yeah. If you aren't going to take pride in what you do and challenge yourself, I don't see the point.
    in entertainment? to have fun.

    It is not like when i enjoy game of thrones, i need a "challenge". I reserve those for real world stuff. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Eldurian said:

    Yeah. If you aren't going to take pride in what you do and challenge yourself, I don't see the point.
    in entertainment? to have fun.

    It is not like when i enjoy game of thrones, i need a "challenge". I reserve those for real world stuff. 
    So he likes more challenges in his life than you do.  No big deal.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Loke666 said:

    Then what's the point? If a game doesn't challenge you might as well watch someone else play on youtube or see a movie.


    to be entertained? In fact, is Dishonored challenging? Not in a million years. But is it fun? Sure .. 10 thousand ways to sneak around and kill (or not kill) your enemies.

    And don't tell me video game "challenges" holds a candle to real world ones. 

    In fact, sometimes I do prefer watching John Oliver on youtube, or watch a movie over video games. If a game wants me to jump through hoops, or needs to spend more than 10 min to learn some boss patterns, i am outta there. I have better things to do. 
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Once again. Entertaining to you not necessarily entertaining to someone else.
    Limnic
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Sign In or Register to comment.