I think the problem is many here will only look at games with the proper hype stamp approval on it. There is a certification process to that, articles have to be written, hype before game is released have to be generated, interviews with the developer in person (not just audio) have to be given and with commentary afterwards.
Only those games are allowed on the list of possibilities and that is why they keep getting fooled over and over and over again
meaning...you dont have to play P2W and you dont have to play games with loot crates either for that matter
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
why is pay to win a huge problem in gaming? the world always under pay2win, even in sports. Look at the olympics, rich nations get more medals. Life isnt fair, stop crying about "fair"
Ah the cry of the ignorant. Life isn't fair? That is why you have games ... oh wait, that was taken from us too.
Seeing you used "Life", let's go ahead and use the board game called Life for an example:
Players sit down and roll dice and make decisions. Every player plays the same game of chance and fun and crazy results occur that makes the game fun. Everyone is on an even playing field on their path to possible success (winning). This is called a game.
Now you come along and accept allowing players to pay real cash in order to get advantages that increase their chances of advancing. The very concept of what a game is has vanished.
RMT affects the entire industry. It has drastically altered how games are made, from marketing through mechanics. The very concept of the game design must be altered at the most fundamental level in order to incorporate RMT. Entire genres have vanished or been redefined to the point they don't exist as they once were. RMT has shut down even the consideration of certain styles of games by mainstream developers, hence why the indie movement has taken hold.
Real consumer based development is nearly dead not because the those markets don't exist but because they don't maximize capital over an "investment".
There is either understanding of this topic or there is acceptance through ignorance. The affects are real, measured and visible for all to see.
why is pay to win a huge problem in gaming? the world always under pay2win, even in sports. Look at the olympics, rich nations get more medals. Life isnt fair, stop crying about "fair"
Ah the cry of the ignorant. Life isn't fair? That is why you have games ... oh wait, that was taken from us too.
Do research and please enlighten yourself with an ounce of historical reference.
Is that like a sentence, a word or paragraph? Time is money!
Tim... you mentioned the key point but jumped to the wrong conclusion IMHO. Yes, it was possible to P2W and buy gold etc in games of old, and yes it was done in the shadows... but it was considered CHEATING!
Now it seems some of us are saying "If you can't beat em, join them!". That's just never been my style. To me it's simply still cheating. I'm not asking for the model to go away, or to change any game that currently has it. I'd just like there to be some more options for those of us who refuse to give in.
I was just about to add that it's been scientifically studied and proved (in so far as science gives universal "truths") that a certain percentage of folks will always try to cheat when there's a benefit to be had from cheating. The fact that folks will attempt to skirt rules is not a valid argument for eliminating said rule.
why is pay to win a huge problem in gaming? the world always under pay2win, even in sports. Look at the olympics, rich nations get more medals. Life isnt fair, stop crying about "fair"
Ah the cry of the ignorant. Life isn't fair? That is why you have games ... oh wait, that was taken from us too.
Do research and please enlighten yourself with an ounce of historical reference.
Is that like a sentence, a word or paragraph? Time is money!
Well I have to agree and disagree with the OP. Yes it was us who brought the p2w model in mmorpg genre and our "please take my money" attitude BUT things are not predestined and by no means we have to live with it. All we need is to change our attitude and our perspective for what we want as a fair model of paying for our entertainment. I still remember the embargo of a small community in my country towards the local meat markets when they raised by 30% the prices. It lasted a month or so before prices went back to previous rates and even lower. We have what they want ($$), we just need to learn how to get what they have with a fair trade.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom. (Death)” ― Terry Pratchett,
Time is precious to people and that is as much a cause for the effect as anything. I read about it from the authors of articles here even about how they don't have time to dedicate. A lot of people will just pay more money to skip past things they don't find fun to just get to the fun. Then there is the complaining that there is not a lot of fun there because generally just paying to get to even slower grind from some of those people.
I am playing Secret World Legends at the moment. I am a Grandmaster in The Secret World. I did not get far in that game because I took my time and had no friends. Legends is easier and so I am playing through the story. Was in a Twitch chat where someone said it was P2W hardcore and told me that I was going to be stuck. I guess that could be true but I am there for the story so if I get to that point and can't do the story then I can either grind or stop. I don't have a gun held to my head to keep playing. I can do the easy thing of "I got what I paid for so can go do something else." Plus it helps that the locked boxes there can be sold.
Games have to make money. I accept this and buy fewer games because of the money systems in games. I know what I like and don't like. I can't blame others who do things the game company has added. I find what is fun to me and decide what that is worth to me. Comparing the price of a movie to price of a game is something I see a lot now. They are two different things to me. One is sitting back and enjoying without having to do anything and the other is about finding what is fun and doing that (which I have to say I would like to break all the game devs fingers who think jumping puzzles should be in MMOs) which means sometimes accepting grinding through some parts that I don't like.
But the thing is those games helped spawn the whole "buy items for cash".
I always saw news on Everquest where they were talking about people selling items on e-bay. So there has always been a segment of the population who were willing to purchase items/services. And companies were constantly combatting this, spending money to stop it.
I suppose they woke up one day and realized that they were spending money to stop people from doing something that they were going to do anyway AND other companies would make money off their efforts.
So they decided they would rather make money off their work if there was a market for it.
Bingo, this is more what really happened rather than simply "we did it". Yes we are the reason P2W exists, because gamers have bought gold, items, and powerleveling since the dawn of MMORPG's. But we are not the reason why gaming companies shifted to own the RMT market.
Gaming companies were looking for ways to increase revenue, and they realized they were not going to stop people from buying & selling online goods. So rather than watch 3rd parties profit off their work, they went in and developed legal gold buying, legal leveling boosts, and legal item trades. This way they pocket the money and they get to control the value and inflation of their ingame gold/items.
I used to buy/sell during early days of EQ, AC1, and DAOC. Those were the days when you could move from game to game without breaking your bank. We used to sell off the gold/accounts in games we no longer play, so we could get a small amount of help starting new elsewhere. There were times when my group of friends would never have gone back to certain games, such as EQ or DAOC, without the ability to twink up a new character or two.
People often don't realize gold used to be a lot cheaper back in the days. Now? It's so expensive buying direct, from new games like BDO's pearl market, to GW2's gems currency exchange, to even old games like EQ, the exchange rates are awful. P2W definitely have made games more expensive to play, not to mention it ruins some aspects of gaming. I'll use EQ's progression servers as an example.
I used to enjoy EQ's progression servers, I would jump to play on a new progression server anytime they were released. They were a blast from the past, nostalgia overload. People starting from classic EQ at level 1, having to barter their way up to obtaining new equipment, making gold, trading for weapons, buying/selling at the Commonlands tunnel, it was all very fun. But ever since Kronos were introduced and made legal on progression servers (Kronos is Daybreak/EQ currency), you couldn't buy anything worth while ingame without having to trade Kronos. Everything for sale, even the lowbie items, required you to trade Kronos. It's a classic example of P2W and how it ruined what was once a genuine nostalgia experience. This is why I no longer participate in new EQ progression servers.
Back in the days free market competition made things affordable, and it made games a lot more fun for people. Now with companies controlling the value of their currency, the exchange rates suck, and you end up spending way more now to play these so called "free to play" games with P2W built-in. Your time put into the games are devalued, certain aspects of the gameplay is cheapened. I do miss the old days.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
why is pay to win a huge problem in gaming? the world always under pay2win, even in sports. Look at the olympics, rich nations get more medals. Life isnt fair, stop crying about "fair"
Shut your piehole imo. Games are not real life, they are an escape from real life, or should be. P2W brings real life into the game and destroys any chance of a level playing field. Games by definition are supposed to be fair, in that equal effort and equal skill = equal chance aside from whatever RNG may be involved.
Aside from that, MMO's casino like features should also be investigated for Illegal gambling. The government should tax the crap out of any game publisher that sells RNG boxes to the point where they just go away.
why is pay to win a huge problem in gaming? the world always under pay2win, even in sports. Look at the olympics, rich nations get more medals. Life isnt fair, stop crying about "fair"
I dunno, it depends on the sport. Try to outski a Norwegian and many of the best soccer countries are rather poor. Jamaica is poor but have the worlds fastest runners. While the larger countries do tend to get more medals I don't think there is an actual tie to BNP for the amount of medals.
Genetics and interests makes a huge impact even though good training certainly helps and being rich (or supported by rich) means you can train more.
That is really a lesser problem, it doesn't matter if a "win" kit cost $1 or $10 000, the real problem is that it makes the game less fun because the point of almost all MMORPGs is to get stuff and when you can buy all that stuff for cash what is the point?
Many games sell win stuff cheap enough for at least the majority of the gamers, the problem is not that people can afford it but that it takes away the point of the game. When you bought the top tiered raid gear what do you have left in the game?
When people actually need to work for the stuff they play longer.
- pay2win is just another symptom of the deep sickness of Murica, the growing neo-feudal corporate-fascism masquerading as "democracy". When you have a few who believe with religious fanaticism that they are "entitled" to "win" as a almost (and sometimes direct) literal divine right, this is the kind of thing that follows throughout the "society". You have to always remember that their wealth is not as the mythology would have you believe come to them because they are such special, precious (and superior!) snowflakes. No the actual history shows otherwise. Luck mostly, just plain dumb luck! - and then corruption, lies cheating stealing... Was Edison this intrepid genius slaving away, tirelessly, selflessly, and won his wealth by his great hard work? Look to the actual history, it wasn't that way. - Don't believe that wealth is righteous, "earned", and "deserved", don't believe the propaganda LIES.
It's a great topic for clicks and should generate a heated discussion. My light criticism of your article, although well worded, is that you went for the easy selling points, glossed over the complexities that brought us here, and completely ignored the root cause and that is monetizing progression.
You have a great writing style though and setup of a fun narrative so I like reading your articles whether I think you're on target or completely off the mark.
Though I agree, I would have gone further. This is a typical Hollow Rant. No real substance.
it's not like p2w hasn't been around since the beginning of gaming. you pay to win the game.......i really don't get why it's a bad thing for f2p games to want to make money to keep their game alive for thousands of players. or even b2p having a cash shop. the base price isn't enough to keep it going for years maybe 10s of years. if you're planning on play a game for free, it shouldn't be a problem for others to pay to keep the game alive for you to play for free. most overlook(don't know how either) this fact. but don't whine about the ones that spend any kind of money, obviously they're going to get an advantage(if they even do get one), they paid for it. which, makes you able to play for free even longer. gotta love when people overlook this simple thing.
it's not like p2w hasn't been around since the beginning of gaming. you pay to win the game.......i really don't get why it's a bad thing for f2p games to want to make money to keep their game alive for thousands of players. or even b2p having a cash shop. the base price isn't enough to keep it going for years maybe 10s of years. if you're planning on play a game for free, it shouldn't be a problem for others to pay to keep the game alive for you to play for free. most overlook(don't know how either) this fact. but don't whine about the ones that spend any kind of money, obviously they're going to get an advantage(if they even do get one), they paid for it. which, makes you able to play for free even longer. gotta love when people overlook this simple thing.
What about people who don't want to play for free but want an even playing field? How'd you miss such a "simple thing"?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I count myself blessed to be a 'carebear'. I can just ignore all the pay to win shenanigans. The amount of money other people spend on a game has no effect on me or my playstyle.
It's the poor old PvP player who suffers the most from this BS.
Stop investing money and time in what you consider to be unfair revenue models. I loved Neverwinter, it became clearly P2W, I left behind 2 years of time investment and a top PvP account. I could tolerate WoW's token system however, as it was much less of an issue in competitive PvP, so I continued to give Blizz money.
If you are paying a developer that is shamelessly exploiting P2W, stop - especially if you feel nauseous with each minute and dollar you spend on that particular game. Just stop, I know it's hard to leave behind a big time investment you will never recover, but make your peace with it and put it behind you, it will be better in the end.
was playing albion online today, im playing with friends from others game, so we start and im playing ALOT and im reaching T4... got standar quality item... one friend already T4 with rare set relique item, he just buy 200$ from the official website and turn his gold for money righ away...
that a pvp game.... for me to get relic item as a f2p i need get into zone or hellgame and kill a special boss.... now if you try go there ... they are already peoples with amazing full relic set who will kill you !!
peoples will reply : if you skilled you can win... why whale would be less skilled than you ?? they can also kill you !!
so i went to buy my island... and it FUCKING EXPENSIVE !! some peoples are already at tier 4-5
( realy high)
that a full loot game pvp... but you can just buy into power... peoples are fine with that ??
i mean if i got around 1k to spend i could literaly make myself the best gears kinda and be realy strong...
im to old for these shitty p2win... it almost killed my will to keep play albion online today...
i want my mmorpg fair, and yes im okay if you are no life and play more than me !! you actualy do the work..
that kinda crazy they sell gold in their website...
was playing albion online today, im playing with friends from others game, so we start and im playing ALOT and im reaching T4... got standar quality item... one friend already T4 with rare set relique item, he just buy 200$ from the official website and turn his gold for money righ away...
that a pvp game.... for me to get relic item as a f2p i need get into zone or hellgame and kill a special boss.... now if you try go there ... they are already peoples with amazing full relic set who will kill you !!
peoples will reply : if you skilled you can win... why whale would be less skilled than you ?? they can also kill you !!
so i went to buy my island... and it FUCKING EXPENSIVE !! some peoples are already at tier 4-5
( realy high)
that a full loot game pvp... but you can just buy into power... peoples are fine with that ??
i mean if i got around 1k to spend i could literaly make myself the best gears kinda and be realy strong...
im to old for these shitty p2win... it almost killed my will to keep play albion online today...
i want my mmorpg fair, and yes im okay if you are no life and play more than me !! you actualy do the work..
that kinda crazy they sell gold in their website...
where the genre going...
You would still have to level up everything if you want to make the gear yourself. You also need to level up your combat skills otherwise you won't even be able to equip the good gear you buy. I'm in T4, didn't buy any gold and it says I've played 9hours. If you have done hardcore grinding/farming in other games Albion's really isn't so bad.
About the topic though I pay to lose all the time in games and never learn my lesson. I'm a sucker for the gambling aspect of it when the companies don't get too greedy but when it's obvious that they are whalin' I steer clear cause that's a long disastrous slope.
Paying to access (subscriptions) is not the same as paying to win.
Second, as others have already stated, the fact that some people were paying 2 win in old school games by engaging with 3rd party rmt services (gold sellers etc) is also no reason to start allowing p2w in your games. It was cheating before, why would you want to start allowing cheating now?
I fully understand and appreciate that developers (well, probably driven by publishers rather than devs) need to monetise their games and someone up top will always be pushing for more and more revenue. However, there are ways to increase revenue without those revenue streams directly affecting the gameplay experience. There is simply no upside for the gamer in a p2w situation.
I will agree that the situation is partially our fault for continuing to condone this behaviour. I personally do not condone it, I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and tend to avoid f2p games altogether. Even games that were sub and turned f2p I tend to leave quickly as I just won't support shady business practices. Longest I held out was LotRO when that turned F2P - the initial conversion was OK and pretty ethical, but it got steadily worse and coincided with a drop in quality of content.
People don't want that "even if real life is p2w" exactly for that reason. If you have a hard job and get stressed you would be some crazy problematic person to play games to get stressed - You would play games to have fun, distract, relax.
Games are suppose to fall under this ritualistic cycle of environment in which people go and isolate themselves of the world and its obligations, but I'm not talking about escapism - I'm just saying that no matter the game (soccer, Halo, Hearthstone) when you are there you are no other place. When you gather your friends to play soccer you go to this sacred zone in which your boss is not there, that yelling crazy client is not there - and again; it's not that everyone participating wants to forget those things: It's just those aspects of life is not what they want to meet there.
*********Mobile site still needs some work******
This is precisely the reason F2P cash shop games are detrimental to the experience. They bring socioeconomic stratification into gaming. Moreover, they bring it into RPG gaming that's supposed to be the player enjoying a world apart from reality, where you're just having fun, not keeping up with the Joneses.
Whether someone uses MMORPGs for escapism or not, bringing such stratification into the industry is not healthy for the consumer base in reference to the overall gameplay experience.
This is a sad truth, really miss the days of the Everquest and WOW pay plans where it was one payment a month and you knew what you were getting and you didn't pay again until a major release of content came out and then you paid your $25 to $50 expansion fee and possibly got a free month. It was so much easier and no guess work.
I paid more to play EQ1 and WoW than all other games combined...To me P2P was significantly more expensive than F2P or B2P ever were..I guess i am in the minority but my pocketbook welcomed f2p with open arms....I often felt ripped off having to pay a sub fee but we literally had few other options back then.....
Tim Eisen what a jaded post! Why post if you are going to be so negative?
Some of you are missing the point. Just because they have a shop in game does not mean it is pay-to-win. Pay-to-win means that something in the cash shop exists that gives you a major advantage in gameplay, especially in pvp. Mounts, pets and costumes don't count.
Games need to make money and if I am playing one, I have no objection to spending money on it to support it. There are a lot of games where I have no issue with spending money in their shop.
The worse thing I find in these games that have RNG boxes that can occasionally contain gameplay altering items. At that point the game becomes a gambling casino and I have no interest of ever playing it.
Comments
Only those games are allowed on the list of possibilities and that is why they keep getting fooled over and over and over again
meaning...you dont have to play P2W and you dont have to play games with loot crates either for that matter
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
same I really miss 3 game. MXO, COV, WAR.
Ah the cry of the ignorant. Life isn't fair? That is why you have games ... oh wait, that was taken from us too.
Seeing you used "Life", let's go ahead and use the board game called Life for an example:
Players sit down and roll dice and make decisions. Every player plays the same game of chance and fun and crazy results occur that makes the game fun. Everyone is on an even playing field on their path to possible success (winning). This is called a game.
Now you come along and accept allowing players to pay real cash in order to get advantages that increase their chances of advancing. The very concept of what a game is has vanished.
RMT affects the entire industry. It has drastically altered how games are made, from marketing through mechanics. The very concept of the game design must be altered at the most fundamental level in order to incorporate RMT. Entire genres have vanished or been redefined to the point they don't exist as they once were. RMT has shut down even the consideration of certain styles of games by mainstream developers, hence why the indie movement has taken hold.
Real consumer based development is nearly dead not because the those markets don't exist but because they don't maximize capital over an "investment".
There is either understanding of this topic or there is acceptance through ignorance. The affects are real, measured and visible for all to see.
You stay sassy!
Is that like a sentence, a word or paragraph? Time is money!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You stay sassy!
Yes it was us who brought the p2w model in mmorpg genre and
our "please take my money" attitude BUT things are not predestined
and by no means we have to live with it.
All we need is to change our attitude and our perspective for what
we want as a fair model of paying for our entertainment.
I still remember the embargo of a small community in my country towards the local
meat markets when they raised by 30% the prices.
It lasted a month or so before prices went back to previous rates and even lower.
We have what they want ($$), we just need to learn how to get what they have with
a fair trade.
― Terry Pratchett,
I am playing Secret World Legends at the moment. I am a Grandmaster in The Secret World. I did not get far in that game because I took my time and had no friends. Legends is easier and so I am playing through the story. Was in a Twitch chat where someone said it was P2W hardcore and told me that I was going to be stuck. I guess that could be true but I am there for the story so if I get to that point and can't do the story then I can either grind or stop. I don't have a gun held to my head to keep playing. I can do the easy thing of "I got what I paid for so can go do something else." Plus it helps that the locked boxes there can be sold.
Games have to make money. I accept this and buy fewer games because of the money systems in games. I know what I like and don't like. I can't blame others who do things the game company has added. I find what is fun to me and decide what that is worth to me. Comparing the price of a movie to price of a game is something I see a lot now. They are two different things to me. One is sitting back and enjoying without having to do anything and the other is about finding what is fun and doing that (which I have to say I would like to break all the game devs fingers who think jumping puzzles should be in MMOs) which means sometimes accepting grinding through some parts that I don't like.
Gaming companies were looking for ways to increase revenue, and they realized they were not going to stop people from buying & selling online goods. So rather than watch 3rd parties profit off their work, they went in and developed legal gold buying, legal leveling boosts, and legal item trades. This way they pocket the money and they get to control the value and inflation of their ingame gold/items.
I used to buy/sell during early days of EQ, AC1, and DAOC. Those were the days when you could move from game to game without breaking your bank. We used to sell off the gold/accounts in games we no longer play, so we could get a small amount of help starting new elsewhere. There were times when my group of friends would never have gone back to certain games, such as EQ or DAOC, without the ability to twink up a new character or two.
People often don't realize gold used to be a lot cheaper back in the days. Now? It's so expensive buying direct, from new games like BDO's pearl market, to GW2's gems currency exchange, to even old games like EQ, the exchange rates are awful. P2W definitely have made games more expensive to play, not to mention it ruins some aspects of gaming. I'll use EQ's progression servers as an example.
I used to enjoy EQ's progression servers, I would jump to play on a new progression server anytime they were released. They were a blast from the past, nostalgia overload. People starting from classic EQ at level 1, having to barter their way up to obtaining new equipment, making gold, trading for weapons, buying/selling at the Commonlands tunnel, it was all very fun. But ever since Kronos were introduced and made legal on progression servers (Kronos is Daybreak/EQ currency), you couldn't buy anything worth while ingame without having to trade Kronos. Everything for sale, even the lowbie items, required you to trade Kronos. It's a classic example of P2W and how it ruined what was once a genuine nostalgia experience. This is why I no longer participate in new EQ progression servers.
Back in the days free market competition made things affordable, and it made games a lot more fun for people. Now with companies controlling the value of their currency, the exchange rates suck, and you end up spending way more now to play these so called "free to play" games with P2W built-in. Your time put into the games are devalued, certain aspects of the gameplay is cheapened. I do miss the old days.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
Shut your piehole imo. Games are not real life, they are an escape from real life, or should be. P2W brings real life into the game and destroys any chance of a level playing field. Games by definition are supposed to be fair, in that equal effort and equal skill = equal chance aside from whatever RNG may be involved.
Aside from that, MMO's casino like features should also be investigated for Illegal gambling. The government should tax the crap out of any game publisher that sells RNG boxes to the point where they just go away.
Genetics and interests makes a huge impact even though good training certainly helps and being rich (or supported by rich) means you can train more.
That is really a lesser problem, it doesn't matter if a "win" kit cost $1 or $10 000, the real problem is that it makes the game less fun because the point of almost all MMORPGs is to get stuff and when you can buy all that stuff for cash what is the point?
Many games sell win stuff cheap enough for at least the majority of the gamers, the problem is not that people can afford it but that it takes away the point of the game. When you bought the top tiered raid gear what do you have left in the game?
When people actually need to work for the stuff they play longer.
Though I agree, I would have gone further. This is a typical Hollow Rant. No real substance.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's the poor old PvP player who suffers the most from this BS.
If you are paying a developer that is shamelessly exploiting P2W, stop - especially if you feel nauseous with each minute and dollar you spend on that particular game. Just stop, I know it's hard to leave behind a big time investment you will never recover, but make your peace with it and put it behind you, it will be better in the end.
that a pvp game.... for me to get relic item as a f2p i need get into zone or hellgame and kill a special boss.... now if you try go there ... they are already peoples with amazing full relic set who will kill you !!
peoples will reply : if you skilled you can win... why whale would be less skilled than you ?? they can also kill you !!
so i went to buy my island... and it FUCKING EXPENSIVE !! some peoples are already at tier 4-5
( realy high)
that a full loot game pvp... but you can just buy into power... peoples are fine with that ??
i mean if i got around 1k to spend i could literaly make myself the best gears kinda and be realy strong...
im to old for these shitty p2win... it almost killed my will to keep play albion online today...
i want my mmorpg fair, and yes im okay if you are no life and play more than me !! you actualy do the work..
that kinda crazy they sell gold in their website...
where the genre going...
About the topic though I pay to lose all the time in games and never learn my lesson. I'm a sucker for the gambling aspect of it when the companies don't get too greedy but when it's obvious that they are whalin' I steer clear cause that's a long disastrous slope.
Second, as others have already stated, the fact that some people were paying 2 win in old school games by engaging with 3rd party rmt services (gold sellers etc) is also no reason to start allowing p2w in your games. It was cheating before, why would you want to start allowing cheating now?
I fully understand and appreciate that developers (well, probably driven by publishers rather than devs) need to monetise their games and someone up top will always be pushing for more and more revenue. However, there are ways to increase revenue without those revenue streams directly affecting the gameplay experience. There is simply no upside for the gamer in a p2w situation.
I will agree that the situation is partially our fault for continuing to condone this behaviour. I personally do not condone it, I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and tend to avoid f2p games altogether. Even games that were sub and turned f2p I tend to leave quickly as I just won't support shady business practices. Longest I held out was LotRO when that turned F2P - the initial conversion was OK and pretty ethical, but it got steadily worse and coincided with a drop in quality of content.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Some of you are missing the point. Just because they have a shop in game does not mean it is pay-to-win. Pay-to-win means that something in the cash shop exists that gives you a major advantage in gameplay, especially in pvp. Mounts, pets and costumes don't count.
Games need to make money and if I am playing one, I have no objection to spending money on it to support it. There are a lot of games where I have no issue with spending money in their shop.
The worse thing I find in these games that have RNG boxes that can occasionally contain gameplay altering items. At that point the game becomes a gambling casino and I have no interest of ever playing it.