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Has Questing Eliminated the Exploring Aspect of Gameplay?

EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,213
edited July 2017 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
It seems like questing is the primary means of gameplay for PVE content in most MMORPGS. Frequently as players we experience the super themepark approach where the zone is littered with quest hubs and quest markers for NPC's. Content becomes this linear experience where players bounce around to quest hubs. The lack of initiative to explore wanes away from the player to be motivated to explore further in the world. 

The two contrasting examples I can give are Everquest and World of Warcraft.

Everquest - Had a more sandpark approach, where players predominantly explored the zones and finding new named mobs or found a small cave or a dungeon. Players can pick and choose what zones they wanted to explore and level in, there were no specific path. There is no linear approach to questing, simply Everquest didn't have the model we have today. 

World of Warcraft - There were some zone choice of where a player can choose to level in but typically when they enter a zone they're directed to follow a path form quest hub to quest hub. A very contrasting approach to Everquest.

For me as a player, I feel like the quest hub does eliminate the need to explore the world as you're directed to go here and there on your own accord. Questing should be something that you stumble upon and find hidden away that could lead to interesting rare treasure. I think quest hubs omit the sense of danger in the world because it creates an expectation already. 

I do know that there are players who do explore no matter what, but the thread is merely about, do quest hubs eliminate your desire to explore and does it give the perception of a smaller world?

Post edited by Eronakis on
Arclan
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Comments

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    It's Quest Hub that ruined exploration not Quest in general.

    centkinLoke666GorweEronakislaseritGdemami

  • Kaisen_DexxKaisen_Dexx Member UncommonPosts: 326
    I said it years ago, but what we have in mmos today isn't exploration and discovery - its tourism.

    I think its less about the linearity given by hubs, and more about how the lore is shoved down your throat with quests directing you to everything they possibly can to fill the content void. 

    That being said, I much preferred the EverQuest approach with minimal hubs/quests.
    Arclandeniter
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,921
    edited July 2017
    I remember back when you had to actually talk to a npc to see if he or she had a quest. There was no type of quest marker or indicator.
    Arclan
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    I think it's the Internet and communities. 

    We need to remember that when Everquest was first released, your main source of information was the community. I mean, at that point, Yahoo was still a "thing" and Google was.... "What? WTF is Google?" So what was your source of information? It was either the community, in-game, or probably some BBS sitting in some dudes basement. However, the access to information certainly wasn't what it is today. With data mining and PTR, you're effectively guaranteed to know what to do and in what order before anything is released, and that information is conveniently published to the web. 

    So I think the question isn't what ruined exploring, but what can be done to encourage exploration? A quest hub isn't a problem, actually. Let's say I created PG Quests. So not everyone was on the same quest. Then maybe when I pick up a quest it shows me people who are on the same quest? Honestly, PG is one of the few things I could see fixing the COMMUNITY issue we have right now. In doing so, that could also fix the exploration issue. 

    Here's another question, though. Is the lack of exploration something that the majority of community members want fixed? In other words, do enough people give a shit to justify fixing it? Based on the current metrics for success, my guess is no. Someone would be content to sit there and whack the same group of mobs for 24 hours straight if it meant they got a world first something. 


    Crazkanuk

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,450
    In a game like Wow it most certainly has ruined exploration and immersion because hand holding and putting markers on maps is the worst immersion breaking experience possible.You can't call it exploration when some map has some yellow marker that says come here and most of these lazy games just somehow have you equipped with a whole slew of ready made maps,how the heck did you get those maps?

    It is all those little things that add up and have me shake my head in disbelief at how some people can support such shallow game designs.OH but wait we have RAIDING,free  bonus xp weekends,free mounts if you join our game,it is a never ending cycle of poorly designed games trying to sell themselves with cheap gimmicks.

    Exploration should feel just like it would to you in real life,you know nothing or very little,you start out in a direction ready to find something new around each corner.Then you hand design the world so there is some actual cool exploration and not just a bunch of yellow markers leading to mobs to kill to complete quests.
    deniterArclan

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,778
    Questing is not the problem. Questing encourages exploration if it's done so that players are sent to search, figure out, and discover things.

    The problem is that games are giving quest arrows and designed so that as long as you're able to kill the opponents on your way that's all you need to do.
    Arclan
     
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 512
    Wizardry said:
    In a game like Wow it most certainly has ruined exploration and immersion because hand holding and putting markers on maps is the worst immersion breaking experience possible.You can't call it exploration when some map has some yellow marker that says come here and most of these lazy games just somehow have you equipped with a whole slew of ready made maps,how the heck did you get those maps?

    It is all those little things that add up and have me shake my head in disbelief at how some people can support such shallow game designs.OH but wait we have RAIDING,free  bonus xp weekends,free mounts if you join our game,it is a never ending cycle of poorly designed games trying to sell themselves with cheap gimmicks.

    Exploration should feel just like it would to you in real life,you know nothing or very little,you start out in a direction ready to find something new around each corner.Then you hand design the world so there is some actual cool exploration and not just a bunch of yellow markers leading to mobs to kill to complete quests.
    Not entirely true... most people don't just randomly head off into a forest to see what's out there, they follow a marked trail.  People who travel, follow maps and other guideposts.  So you see, it's not the markers that have eliminated exploration... it's the environment that has either limited your ability to explore (invisible walls) or provided you with no reason to explore (it's just an endless desert).

    In real life, you use a map.  In real life, you follow a road.  In real life, you aren't Christopher Columbus... and keep in mind, he was paid to find the new world, he didn't just decide to go find one.
    Octagon7711MrMelGibsonRobsolf
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Quests in itself doesn't hurt exploration, it is the fact that quests tend to give you exact direction where to go that does that.

    It doesn't help that quests are put in a few larger questhubs either.

    Many of the earlier games had quests you could get from looting or finding an item somewhere out in nowhere and that helped as well.

    Me personally think that a mix of better placed quests, DEs you just run into and random worldbosses you can find by exploring is the best way to go. The game should not always tell you exactly what to do, that works sometimes but it makes the game very predictable and I feel that a hero (or villain) should do more then just doing what he or she is being told all the time.

    Otherwise the game could just be about us being henchmens instead but the games like to tell us we are the most important hero in the world and one would think that the most important hero in the world would make some decisions him/herself.

    Exploration is a fun part of MMOs, it can't really be the only gameplay since no modern MMO is that big but it is far more fun then grinding.
    Arclan
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,993
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.
    Arclan

    You stay sassy!

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited July 2017
    even in the 'to-do' list argument questing can be a killer.

    So the main arguement for having questing is 'well then I have nothing specific to do, no to-do list so to speak'.
    The standard response is 'well explore' which is a valid answer but there is a secondary answer as well which I will now do.

    I want to build a boat, I need an astrolabe, I need some rares, I need some rare mob skins, I cant get them myself. Lets get our group together and go slap those mobs, explore in those dangerous areas looking for rare ores, and lets keep doing that combination until our crafter has all he needs to make the guild a boat.

    That is in effect a group quest that is better than a quest given to you by an NPC. it has point, it has story, it has complexity of tasks and its immerisve


    your welcome
    ArclanEronakis

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Tamanous said:
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.

    Very good points.  I love exploration but don't feel there has to be a "reward" for it.  Sometimes a beautiful view is more than worth the time.

    There is an issue with devs caring about how much a particular bit of content is experience and devs tracking such information.  IMhO, exploration is best served with large spaces that players are free to explore.
    Arclan
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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    waynejr2 said:
    Tamanous said:
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.

    Very good points.  I love exploration but don't feel there has to be a "reward" for it.  Sometimes a beautiful view is more than worth the time.

    There is an issue with devs caring about how much a particular bit of content is experience and devs tracking such information.  IMhO, exploration is best served with large spaces that players are free to explore.
    Darkfall for example had tons of space to explore...but.....

    can you guess the rest of the sentence?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    ste2000 said:
    It's Quest Hub that ruined exploration not Quest in general.

    Kinda hard to have true exploration in any level based world, as you're essentially stuck in the lands you can accomplish anything in. Single player games don't have this issue because for the most part they're scaled to some extent in today's games.. so quest hubs are fine in most of those games. You can pretty much go any where you want and find appropriate content for your character. 

    So I wouldn't say it's quest hubs that are the problem either. It's the way MMORPGs are designed that is the issue, they're built in a manner that isolates a person from the overall game world. You're stuck in a small area based on your level. Hence exploration feels nonexistent. On top of that previous areas become useless. 

    Just look at the difference between ESO at release and ESO now. It's like night and day in terms of how much there is to explore and do. 
    MrMelGibson

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Distopia said:
    ste2000 said:
    It's Quest Hub that ruined exploration not Quest in general.

    Kinda hard to have true exploration in any level based world, as you're essentially stuck in the lands you can accomplish anything in. Single player games don't have this issue because for the most part they're scaled to some extent in today's games.. so quest hubs are fine in most of those games. You can pretty much go any where you want and find appropriate content for your character. 

    So I wouldn't say it's quest hubs that are the problem either. It's the way MMORPGs are designed that is the issue, they're built in a manner that isolates a person from the overall game world. You're stuck in a small area based on your level. Hence exploration feels nonexistent. On top of that previous areas become useless. 

    Just look at the difference between ESO at release and ESO now. It's like night and day in terms of how much there is to explore and do. 
    distributing out the 'mobs' difficultly through out the world is not only easy for developers to do it also makes a ton of sense.

    Darkfall did this, every region had easy mobs, medium mobs and hard mobs, only the hardest where in the center.
    It allowed a person to explore the second the started the game which is what I did.
    DistopiaArclan

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,838
    There are a few MMOs that reward you for exploration with xp, finding quests.  GW2 rewards players with a brief cinematic for finding a new area and adds to world exploration completion reward.  ESO has exploration xp and a few quests found with conversations.
    Arclan

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    SEANMCAD said:
    Distopia said:
    ste2000 said:
    It's Quest Hub that ruined exploration not Quest in general.

    Kinda hard to have true exploration in any level based world, as you're essentially stuck in the lands you can accomplish anything in. Single player games don't have this issue because for the most part they're scaled to some extent in today's games.. so quest hubs are fine in most of those games. You can pretty much go any where you want and find appropriate content for your character. 

    So I wouldn't say it's quest hubs that are the problem either. It's the way MMORPGs are designed that is the issue, they're built in a manner that isolates a person from the overall game world. You're stuck in a small area based on your level. Hence exploration feels nonexistent. On top of that previous areas become useless. 

    Just look at the difference between ESO at release and ESO now. It's like night and day in terms of how much there is to explore and do. 
    distributing out the 'mobs' difficultly through out the world is not only easy for developers to do it also makes a ton of sense.

    Darkfall did this, every region had easy mobs, medium mobs and hard mobs, only the hardest where in the center.
    It allowed a person to explore the second the started the game which is what I did.
    SWG had that to some extent as well.  AT least on core worlds, Adventure planets were a little more geared toward a certain range of combat effectiveness though. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550
    ste2000 said:
    It's Quest Hub that ruined exploration not Quest in general.

    I think that was the OP's position as well.   To the OP I would say yes I completely agree with you, having played years of EQ but never WoW; I did play Vanguard at launch, which had WoW's quest hubs.  Didn't like it; no one truly connected; all interactions were simply a means of completing the next "quest."
    Eronakis

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    SEANMCAD said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Tamanous said:
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.

    Very good points.  I love exploration but don't feel there has to be a "reward" for it.  Sometimes a beautiful view is more than worth the time.

    There is an issue with devs caring about how much a particular bit of content is experience and devs tracking such information.  IMhO, exploration is best served with large spaces that players are free to explore.
    Darkfall for example had tons of space to explore...but.....

    can you guess the rest of the sentence?
    If you mean no reward for doing it?  Do we need to be rewarded for it?

    If you mean there is nothing to see, does it have to have something to see?  Exploring is it's own reward isn't it?

    City of Heroes had badges for exploration and badges had titles you could select, so ...
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    waynejr2 said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Tamanous said:
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.

    Very good points.  I love exploration but don't feel there has to be a "reward" for it.  Sometimes a beautiful view is more than worth the time.

    There is an issue with devs caring about how much a particular bit of content is experience and devs tracking such information.  IMhO, exploration is best served with large spaces that players are free to explore.
    Darkfall for example had tons of space to explore...but.....

    can you guess the rest of the sentence?
    If you mean no reward for doing it?  Do we need to be rewarded for it?

    If you mean there is nothing to see, does it have to have something to see?  Exploring is it's own reward isn't it?

    City of Heroes had badges for exploration and badges had titles you could select, so ...
    depends on what you are calling a 'reward' but yeah.

    When I go to the grand canyon (as an example) the reward is the view of the grand canyon. However, if I do that enough or if there are not enough diversity of things to see then the reward is not there but its an EASY fix, which Darkfall did.

    treasure hunting...

    done

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,007
    It felt like there were two different ways of playing fallout 4,  you either followed quest objectives or you were looking around in the game world to see what was in it. If your aim was to progress through the game the former was a better approach, it was just that exploring the game world was far more enjoyable. 

    The issue with mmorpg is that most of them are designed so you can progress through the game instead of players spending time in the game world.  Areas exist because quests force you to go there instead of quests being just one of the things happening in the areas. In many cases monsters are spread out so you can kill them one at a time and that's all there is to the place. Exploration in such games simply isn't interesting.

    The problem isn't quests, its the way the whole game is designed.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,902
    Nah... Google did it.
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,838
    L2 had a Treasure Hunter with stealth, feign death.  I wonder how many people actually used it for treasure hunting and exploration.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • papabear151papabear151 Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Asherons Call did this right.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    SEANMCAD said:
    waynejr2 said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Tamanous said:
    It's definitely how questing is done and how the game world is constructed. Let's be honest, not many modern mmos are even that big. They emulate it by slapping together a couple dozen zones but in reality your playscape is usually THAT zone only for the time being in a linear progression, story arc or area for the quest.

    Rewards are typically scaled to that one area as well so is it really exploration knowing the zone you are in has the dungeon or rep grind needed for the gear you know you already want? Ya not. Exploration is simple to do but that sort of game design is mostly lost on developers wanting to confine you to experiencing every bit of game content mapped out before you like a spreadsheet instead of organically.

    One of the great examples of an exploration game was Asheron's Call. The game world of huge. Pointlessly huge by today's standards. You could run (and run fast!) for 20 minutes in some random direction and find a dungeon/fort/mob pack/etc that hardly anyone even on a full server knew about.

    AC had shared dungeons and you could be the only one in it. Granted, if it had a rare chest in it or loot drop it would eventually be known but surprising rarely super camped because people actually kept secrets back then ... and that is part of the point of exploration: a world so large that it always had secrets to find. In today's games the vast majority of players experience every "secret" in game because it lies smack in the middle of the progression path.

    Exploration is mystery. There is no mystery when developers only care about how many players experience content created because it is a project value point. A quest exists because it progresses your character. A part of the map is created because a quest sends you there. That is not mystery ... it is business project management.

    Very good points.  I love exploration but don't feel there has to be a "reward" for it.  Sometimes a beautiful view is more than worth the time.

    There is an issue with devs caring about how much a particular bit of content is experience and devs tracking such information.  IMhO, exploration is best served with large spaces that players are free to explore.
    Darkfall for example had tons of space to explore...but.....

    can you guess the rest of the sentence?
    If you mean no reward for doing it?  Do we need to be rewarded for it?

    If you mean there is nothing to see, does it have to have something to see?  Exploring is it's own reward isn't it?

    City of Heroes had badges for exploration and badges had titles you could select, so ...
    depends on what you are calling a 'reward' but yeah.

    When I go to the grand canyon (as an example) the reward is the view of the grand canyon. However, if I do that enough or if there are not enough diversity of things to see then the reward is not there but its an EASY fix, which Darkfall did.

    treasure hunting...

    done
    It is a question of motivation.   Which is ok.  Many people have many reasons to play.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited July 2017
    Singular focus on level/gear progression has ruined every aspect of gaming.

    Exploration
    Socializing
    PvP (Killer)
    True Achievement

    Exploration suffers because when to objective is to do quests to push levels as fast as possible then the game streamlines for that purpose. That means quest hubs and linear questing. These features evolved because the power disparity given by progression is such that players are only interested in increasing in power as fast as possible. Enjoying really cool scenery and world features takes a back seat to hurrying up to complete that quest so you can get that next level.

    Socialization suffers as there is no XP for social interactions and people are segregated by level. Time spent just enjoying the company of other players is "wasted" and players who are heavy on socialization will find themselves pushed either by an inner drive to do content together with higher level friends or pulled by higher level friends to catch up. Meaning more time grinding, less time socializing. 

    PvP suffers because learning your class and mastering your character has become less important than getting more levels and more gear. Authentic PvP is all but a myth in many MMOs. It's become a game of mashing stats against each other and whoever has the higher stats win. It's Stat vs. Stat with player skill only having a minimal effect on the outcome.

    Achievement suffers because spending more time grinding mind numbingly easy content is actually considered achievement. If you've played through your favorite FPS on the hardest mode, pushed the limits of what skill level (and how many) NPCs you can fight in your favorite RTS or shot for highscores on challenges, or handicapped yourself with self imposed rules on a boss fight just to see if you can do it then you know what achievement is. If you've run the same dungeon with 39 of your closest friends over, and over, and over, praying to RNGesus for a great drop and then he grants your wish one day, you don't know what achievement means. You just did simple content until luck rewarded you.

    Brald_IronheartGdemami
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