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Final Fantasy XIV - Patch 4.01 or How Not to Solve AFKers in PvP - MMORPG.com
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Final Fantasy XIV - Patch 4.01 or How Not to Solve AFKers in PvP - MMORPG.com
Patch 4.01, the first post-Stormblood patch, included heavy handed nerfs to PvP experience in order to address the AFK issue, and it’s my opinion that the changes will do little to discourage AFKers while simultaneously punishing everyone else.
Comments
he does make a valid point punishing the masses who were use to something rewarding X amount an forcing anyone who did not get in early to suffer more, does nothing to address someone willing to sit afk waiting for free xp.
they should done a report system wow had it were it would kick you out BG an put 10 min debuff on you think it went up higher with more times reported forget.
Maybe now dungeon ques goes faster.
Just maybe they dropped the PvP XP because it was too high across the board, and not really anything directly to do with AFKers.
just lets everyone choose their own path
afk arguments can be made for virtually any mp team game but the solution is to add anti-afk tools instead of taking compelling rewards away from the bulk of legit pvp players
taking rewards away, or lowering them too much, just turns a fun activity into an unbearable grind
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It's hard to compare this to other pvp multiplayer games since in those games, there are tons of of game mode options and all sorts of different things to take into account. Most people didn't buy ffxiv to play pvp to be honest. And if you still enjoy it, you're still gonna play it. You're not even improving your pve skill in pvp since the abilities are so different. Why should the team that loses get the same xp as the team that wins? They don't even do that in other pvp games
Until they fix the underlying issue with DPS Queues in general (Boring Tank/Healer gameplay compared to DPS gameplay), I think having PvP as a strong contender for experience (roughly equivalent to dungeon running - as it was) was a good idea.
That's really silly... of course dps queues are gonna be awful, and potd is the answer to that. The long dps queues is a problem CREATED by the community. They cannot fix a disproportionate amount of people queuing for dps compared to tanks and healers. How can they fix something like that? If you don't have enough healers and tanks for the amount of dps queuing you just can't "fix" it. HOWEVER, potd remedies this by removing the requirement of a tank and healer. It's almost like the psychology field the U.S. everyone tries to study it and then they wonder why they can't find a job easily, it's because they're not special. And pvp is meant to reward the winners. If you want to level a dps you have to accept that it's going be harder, or that there won't be as many options. To say that tank and healer is boring is PURELY subjective. I know many people who think dps is super boring. With healing and tanking you can easily keep things interesting by testing yourselves with bigger pulls
So PotD should be an answer to terrible dps queues but PvP should not be an answer? Is that what you're saying here?
I think my big thing is that I don't want the amount of xp earned from winning to match losing. But I also want it to be viable to an extent, you also have to remember that dps queues are only horrible because of the playerbase. Potd was a response to that, and they tried to make fates more viable as well.
I disagree that DPS queues being horrible is entirely because of the population. Browsing the official forums and reddit, a common trend I see amongst tanks quitting is due to how boring their class is to play (especially now after the expansion). As a "career" main/raid tank across all MMO's I 've played, I also echo this sentiment. Tanking in FFXIV is the least engaging activity I've experienced in this game - healing is marginally more engaging (its also directly proportional to how bad the rest of the group is at avoiding aoes).
Furthermore, as a tank, my performance has really weak effect on the overall success of the group. Encounters are not tuned taking into account tank DPS, so all I literally have to do is sit in tank stance using aggro combo. Since bosses are all immune to my stuns/interrupts, these don't matter. All that matters is can I cycle cool downs for tank busters and push 1,2,3.
Now, lets say I optimize my rotations, and do everything perfectly? Does much change? Not really, we may kill things marginally faster, but that's much more dependent upon the DPS's ability.
So what if I mass pull to speed up dungeon runs? If I mass pull and the DPS is incompetent, and only does single target attacks, then we are actually progressing at a SLOWER rate since now healer's damage potential is gone - because they are spam healing me.
This lack of engagement of the tank's role towards party success is what many consider "boring". Its also why I can't stand to play tank in FFXIV. It requires the skill of braindead monkey to operate, and a perfect operator is not operating at a much higher level.
Healing - If the DPS is operating perfectly, the incoming damage is very low, so you can spam your attack spell...No real rotations, no real reactive damage abilities. I often felt like I was solely there just to be a buffer for when someone in the group fucks up. During AoE Heavy Fights, Health bar whack-a-mole is slightly more entertaining than tanking, I'll give you that. Compare this to a gameplay like Red Mage. I am all over the battle-field, building up mana, throwing heals in a pinch, raising those to have fallen, dumping mana to others. I'm much more engaged, and my actions actually matter to the overall potential of the fight.
So, yes, I think the state of DPS queues is HEAVILY reliant on the poor design choices Square Enix have made in regards to tanks (and a lesser extent, healers). If these classes were more engaging to play, you'd definitely see a lot more of them and queues would progress much faster.
Players have a choice in what to play. I've already said I know a TON of people who love tanking and healing. It's literally just your opinion that dps is more fun. This is the case in every mmo pretty much, the tanks and healers always have faster queues. So yes, it's on the players
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow... what a cynical, and grossly apologetic point of view.
If you're not going to try to do something right, then don't do it at all. Pointing to other MMOs and saying "well they don't do it right, either" is pure deflection, and nothing more.
The topic isn't about "PvP in other MMOs". It's about PvP in FFXIV.
PvP is something Yoshida was keen and very enthusiastic about implementing in FFXIV, and he made this clear very early in the development. He'd explained how his history in MMOs includes being a top-ranking PvP'er in DAoC, among other things. So, someone who is a self-described big fan of PvP, has spent so much time PvP'ing in a 3-way competitive setting (among others), on top of being, you know.. the Director and Producer of a popular MMORPG.
Let's not forget he's the same guy whom, unironically, recently argued the importance of developers putting in the hard work of doing something well/right - advice he could have used a number of times since ARR's launch, given the number of flubs and complete misses he's made in his time.
The last thing people should be doing is making excuses, saying, "well, no MMO gets it right, so we shouldn't expect FFXIV to either". That is *such* lazy and apologetic thinking. Wow.
This is why Yoshida continues to get away with implementing haphazard, half-baked ideas like this in FFXIV (and there are plenty going back over its relatively short life so far... Verminion, Diadem 1 and 2, and so on)... because there's always loyal fans right there to start hurling excuses, defenses, and deflections for it.
This thing with PvP demonstrates, once again, that Yoshida does *not* understand his player base, nor does he understand how players think. I guess during all his time playing MMOs, he never bothered to pay attention to how other players behave, where they place their priorities, and how they will relentlessly try to circumvent, game or otherwise abuse the systems in place. He just continues to naively assume people will totally behave as he expects them to... and he's wrong every time.
This also demonstrates a long-standing criticism people have had of him.. he sucks at incentivizing content. He has no idea how to get people interested and engaged in content, except for turning it into a compulsory grind to get the next tier of shinies. He takes ideas with incredible potential, and somehow consistently manages to make them underwhelming, to the point where people groan about *having* to do them, instead of being excited *about* doing them.
He's demonstrated this obliviousness in other areas of the game as well, such as Housing - something he *still* hasn't learned, even after screw-up after screw-up in that area.
But if people were using this as a quick leveling tool and weren't even trying to win, then of course I'm glad for the changes made. I've only been in 5-10 Frontline matches since SB launch. A lot of people do seem pretty useless when looking at the score sheet at the end, but I just assumed it was because they didn't quite understand how it all worked or something. lol
The point is the solution in no way matches the problem. Responding to this with "not a pvp game anyway" type crap is just silly. Who are you to tell me what it is or isn't for me?
This community always wants to tell everyone what this game is. You're not allowed to play it to skip the story and get right to raiding because "it is all about the story", you can't enjoy pvp because "it is not a pvp game", you can't level in pvp because "you won't be good at your job", you can't dislike boring side quests because "it is part of the game". You people have an answer to everything, albeit a crap answer, but an answer nonetheless.
I think I speak for a minority of players in this game when I say stop it! No one cares!