CrazKanuk said: That being said, I think that SC is the pinnacle of everything people say they want from the genre, it's got one of the largest budgets ever dedicated to a game in the genre, and it's been given tons of leniency when it comes to time. I'd say that one way or the other, this game could become an example of why the genre works or doesn't work.
.... The biggest point on SC here is a merge of Space Sim with FPS,....
very seriously a non-issue. Just this weekend I spent hours in a game that does exactly that.
The difference in SC (which isnt related to space sim + shooter) is graphics.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
very seriously a non-issue. Just this weekend I spent hours in a game that does exactly that.
The difference in SC (which isnt related to space sim + shooter) is graphics.
Within the MMO genre I mean, it's well known we always have the "master gameplay" and that's it, you just play the same way through every type of content the game has to offer.
But when I mentioned it, I mean the professions and game mechanics, that is players actually playing through their own gameplay related to what they have chosen to do and have a depth to it, so you don't have to just go play X way because that's what everyone else is doing, in the reality of metagaming that so often ruins MMO's.
very seriously a non-issue. Just this weekend I spent hours in a game that does exactly that.
The difference in SC (which isnt related to space sim + shooter) is graphics.
Within the MMO genre I mean, it's well known we always have the "master gameplay" and that's it, you just play the same way through every type of content the game has to offer.
But when I mentioned it, I mean the professions and game mechanics, that is players actually playing through their own gameplay related to what they have chosen to do and have a depth to it, so you don't have to just go play X way because that's what everyone else is doing, in the reality of metagaming that so often ruins MMO's.
that isnt working for me on multiple levels.
1. MMO or not it doesnt matter, the vast majority of the game play is the same when talking about mulitplayer vs MMO even more so in the context of what you are saying 2. it appears you are coming from a perspective thta its really hard to expand game play beyond a very extreemly narrow line and I am telling you from personal experience what many people (including myself in the past) dont understand because they dont have the specific experience. is that their understanding of what is possible is grossly under rated. its just not being done by large studios for reason I dont understand buts its completely possible, I have played them, they are compelling, it works, its exciting, its fun, hours in
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Taking to long compared with what? If there some other game out there doing what Star Citizen is going for I'm sure people would be playing it by now.
But since the mmorpg/space-sim genre has been lacking to say the least Star Citizen is the last hope.
"[T]he last hope" for people wearing blinders.
Good luck with that; for your emotional and mental well-being, I hope it turns out great.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Good luck with that; for your emotional and mental well-being, I hope it turns out great.
I clearly hope both gamers and publishers are not wearing blinders and notice that the support and backing SC is getting means that there's is crowd of gamers eager for games thay push boundaries instead of going for the same old cookiecuter formulas with different skins.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
well I would argue that Froniter is an indie developer that delivered a so called AAA experience.
I dont know what 'targeted gaming experience' is. indie games I have played are very targeted. but ok.
Are you talking Frontier? Indie? In what world?
They're a long-established company with publishers behind the biggest games they have developed. O.o
like what?
on Elite Dangerous specifically they went to publishers with the idea before doing a kickstarter but they did not find funding from publishers so they decided to go to a kickstarter. I cant imagine a more exact definition of an indie then that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Calling ED an AAA game is kind of a stretch. Same could be said for EVE or NMS...
basically ED is a game that depending on a persons personal agenda in a debate can be described as a AAA or indie. In most debates I have been when I mention ED as an indie title i get slammed and told its a AAA title
So whatever the fuck whatever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
on Elite Dangerous specifically they went to publishers with the idea before doing a kickstarter but they did not find funding from publishers so they decided to go to a kickstarter. I cant imagine a more exact definition of an indie then that.
The Rollercoaster series, the 3 alone sold 10 million copies.
Self-publishing does not make you indie, by that logic if Bioware decided to self-publish their new game they would become one Indie.
An IP is one thing, but the company with hundreds of employees supported by publishers for most of its games isn't what you go around calling of Indie.
on Elite Dangerous specifically they went to publishers with the idea before doing a kickstarter but they did not find funding from publishers so they decided to go to a kickstarter. I cant imagine a more exact definition of an indie then that.
The Rollercoaster series, the 3 alone sold 10 million copies.
Self-publishing does not make you indie, by that logic if Bioware decided to self-publish their new game they would become one Indie.
An IP is one thing, but the company with hundreds of employees supported by publishers for most of its games isn't what you go around calling of Indie.
not being able to find funding for a game idea from publishers so that you have to do a kickstater is absolutely positively an indie.
zero question.
and I think calling roller coaster tycoon a AAA title is a stretch however that is all null and void anyway by my statement above
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Nothing wrong with aiming high but there comes a point when you need to reign it in a little
Its only really by aiming high that you find out just how high you can reach, i don't think anyone can accuse SC of having played it safe, and if they do achieve those goals, then everyone wins even the ones who aren't particularly interested in SC, because if they succeed, other developers are likely to take some of those ideas etc. and incorporate them into their own games.
Aiming high with everything is just an excuse used by those unable to set their priorities. Great deeds are done by men who prioritize and put more effort into something.
Nothing wrong with aiming high but there comes a point when you need to reign it in a little
Its only really by aiming high that you find out just how high you can reach, i don't think anyone can accuse SC of having played it safe, and if they do achieve those goals, then everyone wins even the ones who aren't particularly interested in SC, because if they succeed, other developers are likely to take some of those ideas etc. and incorporate them into their own games.
Aiming high with everything is just an excuse used by those unable to set their priorities. Great deeds are done by men who prioritize and put more effort into something.
Outside of the graphics fidelity question the scope is actually not that big of a deal
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Calling ED an AAA game is kind of a stretch. Same could be said for EVE or NMS...
basically ED is a game that depending on a persons personal agenda in a debate can be described as a AAA or indie. In most debates I have been when I mention ED as an indie title i get slammed and told its a AAA title
So whatever the fuck whatever
Well what is AAA? You're saying that indie is a game which is being developed solely by the developer without external funding. I disagree with that. I think that a AAA game is one with a budget significantly larger than the "norm". Does ED fall into that category? Well they have a staff of 300 people. The game JUST released it's final pieces this past year. So even if we said that 33% of that staff was dedicated to Elite during the past 4.5 years, that would be a budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $54 million. Is that a budget larger than most games? Well The Witcher 3 cost less than that to make. So, yeah, I'd say ED is AAA.
SEANMCAD said: not being able to find funding for a game idea from publishers so that you have to do a kickstater is absolutely positively an indie.
zero question.
Doesn't change the other points of the company's reality. Most of the funding for said game came from external investment to KS anyway; that just reflected Frontier's known financial problems.
Big development companies might or might not get publisher deals, when they don't they can get external investment, I think they did the KS more for proving interested in their game to gather investors interest.
Calling ED an AAA game is kind of a stretch. Same could be said for EVE or NMS...
basically ED is a game that depending on a persons personal agenda in a debate can be described as a AAA or indie. In most debates I have been when I mention ED as an indie title i get slammed and told its a AAA title
So whatever the fuck whatever
Well what is AAA? You're saying that indie is a game which is being developed solely by the developer without external funding. I disagree with that. I think that a AAA game is one with a budget significantly larger than the "norm". Does ED fall into that category? Well they have a staff of 300 people. The game JUST released it's final pieces this past year. So even if we said that 33% of that staff was dedicated to Elite during the past 4.5 years, that would be a budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $54 million. Is that a budget larger than most games? Well The Witcher 3 cost less than that to make. So, yeah, I'd say ED is AAA.
lets not get into a detailed debate over what is or is not indie to the point that the thread is completely derailed.
I think its completely fair to say that a company that
1. EXPLICTLY STATED could not find funding for an idea from a publisher 2. so they started a kickstarter
is fair to call said company 'an indie'
more over, creator of SC had a successful game in their past, Frontier had a successful game in their past, SC could not get funding, Frontier could not get funding, SC started a kickstarter to get funding, Frontier started a kickstarter to get funding.
they are different how when it comes to the conversation of indie vs AAA?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Calling ED an AAA game is kind of a stretch. Same could be said for EVE or NMS...
basically ED is a game that depending on a persons personal agenda in a debate can be described as a AAA or indie. In most debates I have been when I mention ED as an indie title i get slammed and told its a AAA title
So whatever the fuck whatever
Well what is AAA? You're saying that indie is a game which is being developed solely by the developer without external funding. I disagree with that. I think that a AAA game is one with a budget significantly larger than the "norm". Does ED fall into that category? Well they have a staff of 300 people. The game JUST released it's final pieces this past year. So even if we said that 33% of that staff was dedicated to Elite during the past 4.5 years, that would be a budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $54 million. Is that a budget larger than most games? Well The Witcher 3 cost less than that to make. So, yeah, I'd say ED is AAA.
lets not get into a detailed debate over what is or is not indie to the point that the thread is completely derailed.
I think its completely fair to say that a company that
1. EXPLICTLY STATED could not find funding for an idea from a publisher 2. so they started a kickstarter
is fair to call said company 'an indie'
more over, creator of SC had a successful game in their past, Frontier had a successful game in their past, SC could not get funding, Frontier could not get funding, SC started a kickstarter to get funding, Frontier started a kickstarter to get funding.
they are different how when it comes to the conversation of indie vs AAA?
One has a budget of more than $150M, puts them clearly in the AAA league which is more of a measure of money spent to develop and support a game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Calling ED an AAA game is kind of a stretch. Same could be said for EVE or NMS...
basically ED is a game that depending on a persons personal agenda in a debate can be described as a AAA or indie. In most debates I have been when I mention ED as an indie title i get slammed and told its a AAA title
So whatever the fuck whatever
Well what is AAA? You're saying that indie is a game which is being developed solely by the developer without external funding. I disagree with that. I think that a AAA game is one with a budget significantly larger than the "norm". Does ED fall into that category? Well they have a staff of 300 people. The game JUST released it's final pieces this past year. So even if we said that 33% of that staff was dedicated to Elite during the past 4.5 years, that would be a budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $54 million. Is that a budget larger than most games? Well The Witcher 3 cost less than that to make. So, yeah, I'd say ED is AAA.
lets not get into a detailed debate over what is or is not indie to the point that the thread is completely derailed.
I think its completely fair to say that a company that
1. EXPLICTLY STATED could not find funding for an idea from a publisher 2. so they started a kickstarter
is fair to call said company 'an indie'
more over, creator of SC had a successful game in their past, Frontier had a successful game in their past, SC could not get funding, Frontier could not get funding, SC started a kickstarter to get funding, Frontier started a kickstarter to get funding.
they are different how when it comes to the conversation of indie vs AAA?
One has a budget of more than $150M, puts them clearly in the AAA league which is more of a measure of money spent to develop and support a game.
so what are we saying now...that SC is NOT an indie game? lets go back a second and see what was said orginally. I will be right back
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The article compares games that have been launched with games still in Alpha. Too early to say about SC. Money and time don't really automatically equal a great game or a bad one. It's how the Devs handle not only putting together what they plan but how they manage unforeseen problems that will pop up like bots, gold sellers, dupping, fixing bugs, combat balance issues, pvp vs pve issues, etc. This is what IMO, can make or break any game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Aiming high with everything is just an excuse used by those unable to set their priorities. Great deeds are done by men who prioritize and put more effort into something.
I think that's quite a bad argument...
Just look at the amount of R&D these developers do, shows clearly how they aim high and they do research to see what they can do all time, how far can they take something.
PG planets are the highlight of this, an R&D team worked on how far could they take PG, and hey, here we are today.
Is it really one excuse or is it one developer that is trying to push everything they do?
I'm enjoying my 50 bucks spent. So are a lot of others. Would rather a polished game of any kind before some launched half broken game. At least they are trying in that department.
I like this argument. Somehow Star Citizen is going to be the only game in existence that will launch 100% polished with no bugs. Oh at least they're trying you say? Yes, they're also the only developer ever that's trying to polish their game.
I wish I also lived under a rock and got excited by the very common things in life
Take half the message away and you make people look like they're saying something they aren't.
I spent my 50 bucks just for the racetracks, and other single player stuff.
Comments
The difference in SC (which isnt related to space sim + shooter) is graphics.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But when I mentioned it, I mean the professions and game mechanics, that is players actually playing through their own gameplay related to what they have chosen to do and have a depth to it, so you don't have to just go play X way because that's what everyone else is doing, in the reality of metagaming that so often ruins MMO's.
1. MMO or not it doesnt matter, the vast majority of the game play is the same when talking about mulitplayer vs MMO even more so in the context of what you are saying
2. it appears you are coming from a perspective thta its really hard to expand game play beyond a very extreemly narrow line and I am telling you from personal experience what many people (including myself in the past) dont understand because they dont have the specific experience. is that their understanding of what is possible is grossly under rated. its just not being done by large studios for reason I dont understand buts its completely possible, I have played them, they are compelling, it works, its exciting, its fun, hours in
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Good luck with that; for your emotional and mental well-being, I hope it turns out great.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
SC clearly has a AAA budget even if its their first game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont know what 'targeted gaming experience' is. indie games I have played are very targeted. but ok.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
They're a long-established company with publishers behind the biggest games they have developed. O.o
on Elite Dangerous specifically they went to publishers with the idea before doing a kickstarter but they did not find funding from publishers so they decided to go to a kickstarter. I cant imagine a more exact definition of an indie then that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
So whatever the fuck whatever
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Self-publishing does not make you indie, by that logic if Bioware decided to self-publish their new game they would become one Indie.
An IP is one thing, but the company with hundreds of employees supported by publishers for most of its games isn't what you go around calling of Indie.
zero question.
and I think calling roller coaster tycoon a AAA title is a stretch however that is all null and void anyway by my statement above
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Well what is AAA? You're saying that indie is a game which is being developed solely by the developer without external funding. I disagree with that. I think that a AAA game is one with a budget significantly larger than the "norm". Does ED fall into that category? Well they have a staff of 300 people. The game JUST released it's final pieces this past year. So even if we said that 33% of that staff was dedicated to Elite during the past 4.5 years, that would be a budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $54 million. Is that a budget larger than most games? Well The Witcher 3 cost less than that to make. So, yeah, I'd say ED is AAA.
Crazkanuk
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Big development companies might or might not get publisher deals, when they don't they can get external investment, I think they did the KS more for proving interested in their game to gather investors interest.
I think its completely fair to say that a company that
1. EXPLICTLY STATED could not find funding for an idea from a publisher
2. so they started a kickstarter
is fair to call said company 'an indie'
more over, creator of SC had a successful game in their past, Frontier had a successful game in their past, SC could not get funding, Frontier could not get funding, SC started a kickstarter to get funding, Frontier started a kickstarter to get funding.
they are different how when it comes to the conversation of indie vs AAA?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
oh and while we are at it what exactly is a 'targeted gaming experience'?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Just look at the amount of R&D these developers do, shows clearly how they aim high and they do research to see what they can do all time, how far can they take something.
PG planets are the highlight of this, an R&D team worked on how far could they take PG, and hey, here we are today.
Is it really one excuse or is it one developer that is trying to push everything they do?
I spent my 50 bucks just for the racetracks, and other single player stuff.
But make your own assumptions.