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How would you make your mmo ?

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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    At first glance you would be right on not making a game for everyone.

    HOWEVER: 

    Something extremely major had been left out of design with mmos, and its going on over 10 years.  It's been so long now it's totally forgotten about. 

    And this is a HUGE game.  Where everyone and all types can co-exist.  With this, each type of player can branch out as they feel. 

    - That solo player may want to group.
    - That PvE player may want to open world PvP. 
    - That adventurer may want to try crafting something. 
    - That easy content being safe player may want to do something harder.

    This is what makes a game a World.  A melting pot of things to do..... It's like log in and see where you end up instead of scripted !

    The problem with that is several, I listed some like how much more content a game for everyone need to be as fun as one aimed for your interests.

    And the difficulty is a huge problem as well, if all content before endgame is easy you will turn many players away but more then a few players just want to steamroll the entire game. There I think you can fix things by slowly ramping it up (instead of making everything super easy until levelcap and then shock the players by going straight to hard like many games do).

    But what you say is of course great if you have the budget and large enough team for it. Most MMOs don't have that but they still try to split the content between all groups without the resources to do so and that proves again and again that it just isn't good enough.

    Sure, someone like Blizzard can put money enough to make a MMO with enough content for everyone but companies that can afford to put that much into a game just doesn't anymore.

    Also, it is way harder to make a game fun for everyone. Having mechanics that makes PvE and PvP equally fun is extremely hard to make and the same goes for mechanics that works as well for soloers as raiders.

    Even Wow failed there, the reasons most people PvE there is because the game made PvE far more fun, not as many think that MMOers don't like PvP. There just have been so few MMOs with good PvP (DaoC is one exception but then it had a huge part PvPers).

    I rather have a few successful focused MMOs at the moment since I don't think the genre would survive another spectacular failure. Also, MMO mechanics need improvements now and it is way easier to do that if you go for a more limited group then everyone. Once there is a few larger games again that actually are growing it certainly would be time to try something on a grander scale but what you suggest is very risky and need an incredible team.

    You can not just try to remake UO or Wow to make a successful huge game, we have already seen that many times.
  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,238
    edited June 2017
    DMKano said:
    I wouldnt.

    Many have this grand illusion of being game designers.

    If you have never made a game from scratch (like written a MUD, maybe even a board game RPG, or heck even written out a RPG on paper)

    Ever made a game in rpgmaker?

    Ever written any code?

    But you expect to design a MMO?


    Oh and - listing features IS NOT game design.


    Sort of like asking a 5 year old how to build a spaceship, thats what this post is.

    I feel like I must comment on this. Most of my post on this board are in the lens of a game design and how its approached, thus rendering my opinion on subjects. As an aspiring game designer, I can confidently say that I have a decent grasp of game design.

    People can list features they want all day but how would you design those features in pre-production and then how would they be developed in choice of engine. Game Design entails looking at every angle of the design and how to break it. What makes it fun, think of many variables of how players can exploit or break the game and why is this mechanic or design choice fun? Does it make sense and compliment the core gameplay? Those are simple questions when I ask my self during the design process, of course its more complicated than that.

    I come with some experience of developing a board game, wrote a blog post on gameshelf.us about version 1 of my board game. Since the blog it's been through several revamps and has more fluid gameplay and strategy. If interested you can view that link below. Still working on it.

    http://www.gameshelf.us/of-dice-meeples-board-game-blog/virtual-world-transitions-to-physical-game/

    I also modded a level for my capstone project in the TES Construction Set as well. Currently learning Unity. 

    For years as a side project/hobby I have been designing my own mmorpg, essentially mostly pre-production work. Through the years my design choices are more refined and cohesive. I have noticed that I typically make complex design choices at first and then ween those complex designs into more a more cohesive mold and simpler elements. Game Design is some what subjective and some what objective as well, there is a fine line between them. 
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    Nyctelios said:
    I don't understand the negativity. Posts like this are suppose to create a healthy environment of creativity and discussion.

    If you don't consider yourself to be able to create a game system and a world setting. Ok. But don't drag everyone else with you.

    Also, it's not like we are pitching a idea to you so you can spit "you are not a game designer!!!" like a old feeble man screaming at young cadets sitting on his chair with his medals of war.
    The road to success is paved with the people that say: You can't, it's impossible, you don't know blah blah blah. All hogwash.

    The Wright Brothers went flying before anyone else and look now. At one point in time, there was no 'online'  and one of the most famous quotes from the development of computers was: Why would anyone want one of these in their home? 

    Lack of imagination, resolve, and more often projecting their own lack of can do on others is why people say these things. You can make a game, you can find people that will help you, and you should. Even if the game fails, even if it never gets off the drawing board at least you tried and you can have pride in that. The naysayers can be the ner do wells and be content with their mediocre lives. People that take risks are the people that move things forward. Take a risk. You may starve, you may make it huge you will never know until you try.

    The sad part is, it can obviously be done, it HAS been done. I have read many pages of posts by some of the people in this thread, and I am convinced they have no damn clue what they are on about half (one, in particular, ALL the time) the time. Don't listen to them, go design your game or theory craft it here and have fun with it. To hell with the negative.

    To the point of the thread I am no designer, but I know what I like to play, so if I were to take a year or so off to perfect my coding, I would have to hire an art department, I know the business side, but I would hire a manager to keep things 'real' then I would make SWG II. As anyone who reads my posts on the topic knows that was about the only MMORPG that I truly enjoyed and I want it back!

    And maybe I will look into this at some point in future, just too busy to be taking risks right now.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    Hatefull said:
    The road to success is paved with the people that say: You can't, it's impossible, you don't know blah blah blah. All hogwash.

    And maybe I will look into this at some point in future, just too busy to be taking risks right now.
    The ones taking all the risks are the ones who are able to achieve greatness.

    Just like life, is a road full of failures, the wish for "safe guaranteed outcomes" is severely suffocating the MMO genre.
    Hatefull
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    edited June 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    Hatefull said:
    The road to success is paved with the people that say: You can't, it's impossible, you don't know blah blah blah. All hogwash.

    And maybe I will look into this at some point in future, just too busy to be taking risks right now.
    The ones taking all the risks are the ones who are able to achieve greatness.

    Just like life, is a road full of failures, the wish for "safe guaranteed outcomes" is severely suffocating the MMO genre.
    Bob Parsons - you may have heard of him, grew up dirt poor, served in the Corps, has been broke in a couple points in his life and since founding GoDaddy in 1997 has seen (obviously) huge success and is now a billionaire. His story is very inspiring to me, especially when he describes how he started GoDaddy. It does not hurt that we are both Marines either. @MaxBacon your point is very valid in my opinion. This Hobby (business, past time, distraction, whatever you want to call it) has went from being a bold young adventurer to a scared old miser that can't be asked to leave the shelter of his safety bubble (read income bottom line). We need more adventures in the production side of this thing. 

    After having said all of that, sadly the outlets that would allow that young adventurer to see his dreams realized are filled with unscrupulous people that are only out to make a quick buck, and the other side (This forum is a great example) shout down anything they don't agree with. Which, on the latter point, no one should really take too much heart in what is said here, as sadly a place that COULD be very positive and helpful is more negative (I am guilty of this) and detracting. 

    However @MaxBacon I agree with your point and well said.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    MaxBacon said:

    The ones taking all the risks are the ones who are able to achieve greatness.
    Taking a risk doesn't guarantee success and you may have many failures along the way.

    In a genre where many of its fans are so unwilling to give people second chances, it's understandable why the safer routes are taken.

    WE are part of the problem.


    Hatefull
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,491
    MaxBacon said:

    The ones taking all the risks are the ones who are able to achieve greatness.
    Taking a risk doesn't guarantee success and you may have many failures along the way.

    In a genre where many of its fans are so unwilling to give people second chances, it's understandable why the safer routes are taken.

    WE are part of the problem.


    I agree to the 'WE' part, the very vocal minority in my opinion. I have no stats to back this up, just a thought that has always been with me, for everyone one forum warrior, there are probably ten people playing and enjoying games that we (yes, myself included) sit around bitching about/promoting/white knighting/etc. 

    I miss my days of ignorance to forum boards when I just went about having fun with no preconceived notion of how I should be enjoying games. I went through a stage where I would only even try a game if it had good reviews on several sites. I have gotten over that and found (I suspect much like many others) that I have to play what I like regardless of what others have to say about it because as I pointed out in another thread, I see forums (all game forums) as mostly negative. A quick search will pretty much prove that as accurate. IN my opinion, the forum community, the very vocal minority, is exactly what cause SWG to be ruined. Very few people on that forum were calling for bug fixes, the vast majority of topics were crying about how everyone should be able to be a Jedi/the grind is too hard/etc. Meanwhile, the rest of the community in their ignorance was running around the galaxy having a great time. Until the carpet was pulled out from under us. Again, opinion.

    Much like I believe we (as a community spanning all games) need to start voting with our wallets and not supporting fly by night developers, we also need to start supporting the honest developers that are trying to make a signifigant change to the industry. Trip A, indy, one person, does not matter if they are making an effort we should recognize that and encourage instead of discourage.

    Anyway, this is not a finger-pointing post as I am just as guilty as anyone of being overly negative of things I may not find appealing, but can still see the value in. It is a problem I am putting effort into correcting.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member RarePosts: 620
    edited June 2017
    This question is like "How would you be president of your country?"

    Just have to realize for every success there're a thousand failures. Most of the games we see out there are made by a very small pool of people.

    I've seen so many games in the past 23 years of playing PC games. I've seen so many I cannot honestly figure out what -I- could do that others couldn't do better and more cheaply. There's so mcuh talent out there.

    There's a point where you figure your programming hobby is nothing more than that. I'm not very good at it. I just enjoy it sometimes.

    So "How would I make my MMO?" I have too muc respect for the real game makers out there to answer the questiuon. It's too stupid. Now, I have opinions about what MMO's I like to play, but that's different from making them.

    A better question is "How would you improve Tetris?"
  • Ombr4Ombr4 Member UncommonPosts: 3
    If I was able to do an MMO, first I will take the new way of gaming with those Virtual game, why? Because MMO with a screen and a keyboard is already flood by game. So Virtual Reality need to be. 

    1. The game need to have a player economy, meaning that player can become crafter, but they don't need to go make dungeon to level up, they can be just blacksmith or any other craft job. From making cloth to making bow to dress mount, everything need to come from player. But no Auction house. player need to buy lots in the city they are to put a vendor, people need to check with those vendor to buy stuff, or they can ask a blacksmith to make for him a weapon or armor. 

    2. City can be manage by player, updated by then and guard level and stuff like that. Everything also about city is set by the lord of it, but also castle. Each country will have a set number of city. Lord will be the one that set quest and how they pay and everything, but don't think lord will become rich and player poor if the ruler is a bad person, cause you can always set an assassination on a bad lord, also if player do more quest, your city grow faster so, making a good economical will be very important. You cannot also pay player very high so that they do all the quest because your money will drop like water. 

    3. No class system, only point for each level that can be put in a lots of tree. Each tree help or govern a weapon or a trade skill or a talent you want. But you cannot do everything. Stats level with your skill or talent you have, each talent give stats and make you stronger. for example: Blacksmith need a lots of strength, endurance, and dexterity to grow, each pts put in the blacksmith will give those stats. So leveling a character will be complex and you will need to think about what you want before. Also each weapon type will give different type of skill and each armor will protect from different type of damage. Like a lance will be a good piercing weapon, but again a plate armor, it will be less effective, but again a chainmail, it will be a different result. Sword will have different type also, from a mostly cutting weapon like a saber to a more piercing one like a rapier. Each with there skill, maybe some skill might be near other, like a slash, who can be use by a lots of different weapon.

    4. Magic will be as complex and as different then weapon. From necromancy spell to enchanting spell. Each magic will have is tree and is stats. But staff or Dagger or wand, will be usable by all type of magician. Someone trying to get good at every type of magic will have less pts for everything else but it will be possible, like someone trying to be good with two weapons. 

    5. Monster will have AI that make them do city also if no player get near them and don't attack them. So if the lord make no quest to destroy those village, it may become a very big city and they might try to invade other city. Killing too many monster of the same line can make them disappear for a time, like killing all dragon can make dragon becoming rarer and those that survive will be much much stronger. 

    6. PVP and PVE. Player will be able to choose if they want to play again other player on a server for them, or a PVE server where player only goes again monster and stuff. In PVP server, monster might win if player destroy each other so guild will need to talk to each other. 

    7. Guild... Yes player will be able to make a guild, but those guild will need to pays fees to the city they are attach. Lord will be able to send those guild quest, if they manage it, they can receive better and better quest. The lord of a city can be part of the guild in a city, but if the lord only give quest to is guild, the city will rot at some point, so he need to give it to all guild in is city, but a lord can send a guild always from is city if he think they are no good for the city. 

    8. Owning a house, each player can get is house, but the house is in a city, so a player will have to choose the city he want. Guild can own castle to protect city from other guild. 

    9. Combat need to be manually targeting type, no tab targeting system. you can dodge if you have enough stats to do it and if your armor let you do it. Combat can be do from mount and you can create siege engine for castle fight. 

    Ok I might have other idea but right now, this is what I have. 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    Hatefull said:
    Bob Parsons - you may have heard of him, grew up dirt poor, served in the Corps, has been broke in a couple points in his life and since founding GoDaddy in 1997 has seen (obviously) huge success and is now a billionaire. His story is very inspiring to me, especially when he describes how he started GoDaddy. It does not hurt that we are both Marines either. @MaxBacon your point is very valid in my opinion. This Hobby (business, past time, distraction, whatever you want to call it) has went from being a bold young adventurer to a scared old miser that can't be asked to leave the shelter of his safety bubble (read income bottom line). We need more adventures in the production side of this thing. 

    After having said all of that, sadly the outlets that would allow that young adventurer to see his dreams realized are filled with unscrupulous people that are only out to make a quick buck, and the other side (This forum is a great example) shout down anything they don't agree with. Which, on the latter point, no one should really take too much heart in what is said here, as sadly a place that COULD be very positive and helpful is more negative (I am guilty of this) and detracting. 

    However @MaxBacon I agree with your point and well said.
    It's kinda how it works, it's annoying, it's not easy, sometimes it's even stride of luck, but it's the nature of taking risky decisions that let us achieve some stuff that we would never if we were always playing safe. 

    We look at the MMO industry and we see just that, there's a known formula that works and everyone follows "the recipe", try to take the risk move of trying something new is seen by those who publish large scale projects as something not wise, what creates this stall on the genre that is making so many people disappointed and frustrated wanting to play something that does not exist yet.

    When Naughty Dog decided to poke around with mocap do to animation for Uncharted of if they faced failure multiple times, had to start over, but once they pulled it off, it looked great and today is a standard for high-quality animation; they took the risks and succeeded. We need more of those.
    Hatefull
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    Taking a risk doesn't guarantee success and you may have many failures along the way.

    In a genre where many of its fans are so unwilling to give people second chances, it's understandable why the safer routes are taken.

    WE are part of the problem.
    I see mostly that this genre is more tired, the people are more frustrated and tired of always playing the same thing under new names and visuals, I don't think there's another genre with such a loud cry for something fresh and new than the MMO genre in recent years.

    The problem is those who take the risks are indies, and when they do we all notice the constant struggle that it is without the proper development workforce and budget for the ambition.

    "AAA MMO", feels like a mirage in the desert presently.
    Hatefull
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    MaxBacon said:

    The ones taking all the risks are the ones who are able to achieve greatness.
    Taking a risk doesn't guarantee success and you may have many failures along the way.

    In a genre where many of its fans are so unwilling to give people second chances, it's understandable why the safer routes are taken.

    WE are part of the problem.
    While that is true we have reach the point where you can't make a big MMO without risks. In 2006 you could just make something similar to Wow and still earn a lot of cash on it but by now you can't do what everyone else already done.

    There is a limit to how many almost identical MMOs there can be and we reached that limit years ago so you need something different now and that is risky. If you want to keep it safe you need to make something else then a MMO, the only exception is if you get the IP for something that is incredible popular.
    A GoT MMO for instance would earn plenty even if it had the same goals and mechanics as most older games have. Same thing with a sequal to a game like Wow.
    Hatefull
  • dougha1dougha1 Member UncommonPosts: 152
    edited June 2017
    Amathe said:
    While I admire some of the leading mmo makers for their imagination, I would not subject myself to that type of financial risk or that many people posting that I suck. 

    Which is too bad for those of you who might otherwise enjoy a game about Gothic vampires with large bosoms. 

    Hmm, boob size could be part of the  settings in chargen?  :)

    Steelhelm
    This forum is broken. It is time to move to proboards, because they're broken.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    dougha1 said:

    Hmm, boob size could be part of the  settings in chargen?  :)

    Where have you been the last 10 years?
  • xonedlxonedl Member UncommonPosts: 25
    edited June 2017
    The game in my dream will not be realize within my lifetime, that's for sure. Not for another 100 years. Still, it won't hurt to throw the idea around. What I have in mind might not even exist in any of current game at all, various technical challenges beyond what game nowadays can do.

    //------------------------
    A. World

    Even the latest game nowadays have the problem with huge world but not utilizing the world properly, resulting in world that doesn't have any meaning but just space filler for the sake of boosting the "open world" trend. Countless "huge" game that I don't finishes due to the fact that the world is completely pointless. Games nowadays are too convenient; where user interact things through convenience UI with a touch of a button. These convenience UI has killed the purpose of the game world. So many games nowadays have overly designed UI, even the latest Mass Effect Andromeda irritate me with all those stupid UIs and icons that are hard to recognize.

    Depending on the theme of the game, sci-fi or fantasy - some UIs can be completely killed to allow better world immersion. No more mail UI, no more market and auction UI, not even inventory, no equipment UI, no journal UI, no corner map... Everything should be made physical as much as possible - player interact physically with the world and him/herself, not interfaces.
    Building and places need to serve their purposes instead of space filler. Market should looks like a market, bank should looks like a bank; the current type of game design where a static NPC surrounded by gazillion of players accessing their "UI" is a serious offence in immersion. If I need to buy something and walk into a player's store, I should browse their item displayed on the wall and counters, not through interfaces.

    World need to serve their logical function, aside from functional places like market, auction, shop, inn, personal houses, bank, guild office, governing office, restaurant, even bathroom... the natural world outside should also serve more purpose than just places to grind monster or just some "important feature that you tag once and forget" that seems to be a popular useless game design nowadays. Places with meaningful feature, safe places that player can hunt and places that player can call their home. Places to discover minerals, places with economy advantage or war advantage, allowing player to truly affecting the world development rather than a static world that only the developer can change. Making places with true unique feature of it's own, such as specific tree type, specific materials, land that suits to cultivate certain types of foods.

    Weather need to be meaningful. Hot weather, cold weather affect player. Going to cold places require cold gears. Even things as basic as sleeping under the tree to get away from the heat (reduce fatigue, etc).

    //------------------------
    B. Crafting

    Crafting in all games nowadays are crap. Period. There is no personalities; everything are pre-defined.

    I'm not talking about stats, but rather - appearances. Everything already made ready by the developer, player know exactly what gear to grind for and exactly how they looks. In the end everyone have the same shit...
    What I have in mind, is sculpt crafting. You see, nowadays we can customize character with so much details. This customization need to extend into items, gears and weapons. Imagine your weapon and armor appearances and stats will rely on your customization options and the materials you uses. You sculpt the shape, adding ornaments, adding magical crystals that physically appear on the item, decorative touches, etc. An item that you can truly call "I crafted that". An item that people will recognize your style, truly bring out the meaning of player crafting.

    Some games already implemented some form of 3D sculpting feature based on template. This feature need to go further in the future, allowing easy and flexible 3D modelling in game. Gold plating my weapon? Adding sapphire? Using light weight alloy for sword core? Add a ribbon decorative? Found a neat looking ornament from a monster, use it as pommel. Want my appearance majority based on fabric, with leather internal layer, style resembling certain anime character? Something to truly call my own... Something with my name on it, where others will tells their friend, "hei that guy over that shop there crafted this cool gear!"

    //------------------------
    C. NPCs

    NPCs are so useless in most MMOs. They only sell the most basic junk items, always be there 24/7 no matter if even blood flood under their feet. NPCs need to be made to mimic player. AI gather interaction from player, study from players' activity and speeches, aware of the world and events they are in. Offering information, items, activity, quests depending on the changes in their region.

    NPCs need to have their own life. This already been seen in older games like Skyrim. They have their set of activity, going places, have their own home, their own job. NPCs need to be made as close to be a real player as possible through smart AI, making every encounter special, rather than just the same dialog repeat a million times over. Skyrim has a mod that changes NPC-player relation; did they like you? or did they hate you? Your relation with them will affect your game play. NPCs need to have their personalities. Trying to date that inn-owner's cute daughter but pissed off her dad? You surely aren't very welcome to sleep at their place or charge you way higher. Maybe you even get hunted... NPCs also need to drastically affect the world, rather than just a set of fixed routine. They decide to re-allocate their shop, they decide to travel, they decide to walk the dark side, they decide the economy, they decide the fall and rise of kingdoms. NPCs role should be on par with players', making them interesting and crucial to the world.

    This include enemies and monsters. They need to have their own life, own routine. Meaningless monsters that always stay at the same spot and re-spawn for no reason at all just for the sake of filling up the world need to go. Enemy need to study the players and surrounding, intelligently altering their actions, providing dynamic challenges. Even the most brutal monster have their own motive of existence- however simple it is, kill to guard their turf, or just to fill their stomach, sleep and hunt at their own time frame. Even animal have the sense of fear and vengeance, this relation with their surrounding and player need to exist to form a meaningful world.

    Post edited by xonedl on
    Steelhelm
  • xonedlxonedl Member UncommonPosts: 25
    edited June 2017
    //------------------------
    D. World information

    Problem with game nowadays, everything are there, predefined for you to discover. Fixed places to discover, fixed items, fixed materials. Everything just spoon feed to you when you step into that area "you discovered blah blah blah". Every items already known, given to you by the developer asking you to grind for them. Every feature, every function, every skills, EVERYTHING already been told to you - all you need to do is grind to reach them.

    This is among the biggest flaw, making the game meaningless. Nothing should be told to the player, nothing should be fixed. Everything should be surprises, where community effort is required to explore the world, bringing true player collaboration.

    Starting from cities, discover secret shops or NPCs offering special services? Would you tell the world or keep for yourself? On the wild, discover a cave with high quality material; will you tell others? Or you case your illusion spell blocking off the entry, conquering the spot all for yourself? Found a peaceful spot? Maybe build a home, form a community village... Or you just want the place for yourself, live in seclusion, chasing off others wanting to take a piece of the land? Found an antique drop from certain enemy, selling them for high price or decorate it in your home showing off to your friends?

    Unique items should be unique, only 1 in the world. The idea of everyone farming legendary gears in nowadays game is so pointless; as mentioned before, no personalities, no real uniqueness. Found a powerful weapon that no one know of? No info on the wiki, no rumours, no info at all. Auction it off for a fortune, or proudly wield it and everyone passing by or dueling with you shock in awe... "holy cow what is that?".

    Community effort to explore the world, discover and publish the information; or kept it secret, generating rumours. A world where information is truly valuable to player survival;a world where information is dangerous, causing war, assassination, crime...

    All those information, catelogue in an in-game libray, player visit to find information, buying rare information... New player visit to understand the world, join a lecture class from veteran player. Player assigning NPCs to teach others certain information, etc.

    //------------------------
    E. Underlying system AI, dynamic world, continues development

    A static world is a boring world. Once you walk every inch of the map then what...?
    Underlying system AI, changing the world as event unfold; changing the world affected by weather, NPCs' and players' activities. A system AI that generate more contents, quests and tasks, waiting for player to discover.

    A dynamic world is always the buzz word nowadays. But to truly achieve that, I doubt that gonna happens in my life time. It require AI system to manage the world automatically, a team of developers continuously working on the game, pushing live changes to the game continuously. Not expansion every 6 months, not every month, not every week; but continuously altering the world and contents.

    The problem with game nowadays is, a "story" that every player need to grind through. It always the same, playing them twice is tiring. That's why, AI driven game is important. Smart NPCs, or assigning some of the roles to player. Making a world that truly alive. We don't need anymore copy paste heroic story, "blah blah blah you are our only hope! Please safe us! Safe the world! blah blah blah...". Tiring boring unimaginative stories.

    No, we don't need a "main story quest-line". I come into a game world to live in that fantasy game world. I step into this fantasy world, meet people, discover the world, listening to rumors and pre-existing information, step onto my adventure to seek these information and more, getting more powerful, gaining trusts and rank in the world. Or going the dark side, be the dark figure that strikes fear among people. Stealing information and items alike, be the unsuspected shadow that gets in the way of others' adventure. A world that I truly live in, personalize to the way I wanted to play, not following the pre-defined route given by the developer.

    //------------------------
    F. Misc

    Chat, no more text boxes. Wanna chat, come face to face. Talking face to face with voice, not text. Text messaging reserved for people within your contacts. The uses of voice chat will makes the world more lively (heavy moderation obviously required), bringing consequences to what you say to the world around you. Bringing role-play back into the RPG.

    Dungeon need to be meaningful, not just another cave with meaningless pre-defined tough monsters with fixed loot to grind. Enemy with their life, their own set of story. A dungeon that been cleared once and won't re-spawn the same again, instead dynamically changes- taken over by player? Left to rot? Taken over by other monsters? Or geological disaster buried it or reveal new places previously inaccessible? The idea of "same content that every player need to went through" need to stop. A content that been cleared once and never return, giving true meaning to that place and event, where you're the person that cleared it have your own unique story to tell, your own unique discovery of items and materials - sparking interest and curiosity among other players to check it out again, hoping for similar encounter and finding.

    Player-NPC interaction. NPCs for hire, where player will be able to program what they can do. Watch over their shop when player is offline? Running some errand, gathering materials, or just keeping your house tidy? Hell, bring it even further, creating virtual relation...

    No more levelling, such artificial limitation need to go. Your personal skill, character stats and items determine your strength. A game where you develop your own skills, instead of everything pre-defined. Discover, create and customize new original skills and combos. Starting from set of pre-defined default skills, create new skills from a template - eg; found a tome in a dungeon describing new kind of spell requiring specific items or materials, using the knowledge to create and customize your own spell that only you know how to cast. Spread this skill for free? Or selfishly kept it for yourself? Give the skill your own name and visual appearances, truly something to call your own.

    A world that not just the only way to play is "kill shits". But a world that we can live within in our own way.

    The idea of a  "fair game" need to stop. Don't design a game where everyone is artificially limited so it is "fair", same skills same items same everything. But design a game where it is interesting to live in, un-fairness will spark challenges, challenges is what players need, challenges is what it needs for the longevity of a game, making it interesting for a long long time, making no second character play through the same experience. Not those static useless "list of challenges and achievements" that is so popular among game nowadays; but unique challenges that only you experienced, that you can proudly tell your own story.

    //------------------------
    G. TLDR

    I dream too much. Almost 4am, good night.
    Post edited by xonedl on
    Steelhelm
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Member UncommonPosts: 230
    When I'm bored I think of what I'd like to play in an mmorpg and I've come up with a pretty crazy framework. It's fun to pretend to play it without it existing.

    It was mentally built from scratch. Built around foundations that didn't start from what other games already do.

    Since it would be exhausting to describe how it all works, I can only share that it has...
    • No levels.
    • No classes.
    • No life bars.
    • No player-to-player trading/selling/buying.
    • No PvP.
    • PvE that abandons such restraints/concepts that would make content predictable.
    • It is both an instanced and seamless world... but neither.
    • It is an mmorpg. And it is magic/fantasy themed.
    • Deals with a lot of lore tying into existentialism.
    • Reaching end game content REQUIRES the deletion of at least one character. They will be gone... but not gone.
    • The first expansion starts with a massive pirate ship... falling from the sky and smashing into the largest lake and sitting there. And inside that pirate ship is a door to the same world that is most certainly not the same world.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
    Already been done more then a few times so the publicity would just be forum rants. besides if your game is not good enough people will state "...but the game sucks..." in those rants so no good publicity anyways.

    Maybe you should consider making the game really fun and getting good publicity for that instead?

    Pretending your game is something it is not will just come back and haunt you later, you want your customers to like your products, not see you as a liar.
  • DrDread74DrDread74 Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Everything is built by crafters in game, and everything is maintained by crafters in game. The roads, villages, houses, castles, walls, shipyards, boats etc. The owners of houses and castles can post a price they will pay for maintenance work and anyone can click on it and do the work to maintain or even build structures. No one needs to be online. 

    Cities are formed when a strong military character or guild decides to plop down a town hall nearby a minable resource or two. Charges a tax to build your house in the area. 

    Monsters camps/dungeons are dynamic and can spawn randomly in preset caves or special locations all over the world. If left alone long enough the levels and type of mobs get bigger and bigger and they start to wander out in the countryside and attack things. If the lair is destroyed, it lowers in power and after several group destroy the lair it eventually despawns. Its like a rel world monster economy. 

    Fighters and adventuring groups are probably only 20% of the players and they are needed to clear out baddy lairs for a price posted by the village owners just like any other work. Its not always as easy as killing off a lair, the destroy a Lair or special hostile location it might require a quest of some sort. Something the village owning players don't have desire to do, they post it on the job board in town and adventurers can come by and pick up that quest, getting paid upon completion. 

    Characters have classes but classes only serve to adjust the cost of skills. The game has a lot of skills. Fighting classes have fighting skills cheaper, thieving classes have thieving skills cheaper. There are several kinds of thieving class Rogue, Thief, Burglar ect. Which adjust the cost of the fighting skills, vs the utilitarian skllls vs the stealing skills. There are several kinds of combat skills not just "Weapon skill". There is the skill for parrying, sheild bashing, maneuvering in combat, Defensive leap to cover, Poise, Disarm, Stun, stun resistance, hit points, Blind fighting stc. There are several kinds of weapons which are effective against different kinds of armor or mobs. Fighters have several kinds of weapon skills because Bows dont work against golems and its hard to hit bats with a halberd. The combat isn't Hit Point based so much as it is "Critical Based". you can kill long before your Hit Points run out. Rapiers work great against light armor humans, but skeletons don't bleed and you cannot Martial Arts punch Dragons effectively at all. 

    EVERYTHING wears out and breaks, Pretty quickly, There are good quality weapons versus low quality weapons but the bigger weapons are "more powerful" as in their bonuses are large against more and more narrow types of targets (+10 but only against dragons). And also, your +10 bow still isn't going to do anything to undead skeletons. In general, everyone is walking around with "normal" gear but have a few powerful pieces they are keeping for specific fights or quests against certain types of mobs/scenarios. you want "fighter" classes because they probably have an appropriate weapon and skill and armor for whatever particular type of mobs you are about to go encounter. The theif probably has 1 or 2 skills in a common blade weapon or something which won't work well at all vs Demons, but the priest has a shit ton of anti Undead power etc. you may not need "fighter" classes at all when engaging a necromancer quest and you might need nothing BUT assassins when doing an assassination quest. 

    There can be large preset Kingdoms around the world and the kings, princes ect are players who have paid real subscription money in an auction style to get those positions and keep them every month

    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/
     An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Loke666 said:
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
    Already been done more then a few times so the publicity would just be forum rants. besides if your game is not good enough people will state "...but the game sucks..." in those rants so no good publicity anyways.

    Maybe you should consider making the game really fun and getting good publicity for that instead?

    Pretending your game is something it is not will just come back and haunt you later, you want your customers to like your products, not see you as a liar.
    nah too much work, too little fun. Playing good games sure .. making good games .. why should i bother?

    In fact, it would be a high fun to work ratio if i make a text adv that allows 5 people to log in at one time, call it a MMO, and see the flames here. Sure it is beating a dead horse. But that must be fun, right? Otherwise, why do people still beat the "is MOBA a MMO" dead horse here after YEARS and YEARS of crusade?
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,558
    Loke666 said:
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
    Already been done more then a few times so the publicity would just be forum rants. besides if your game is not good enough people will state "...but the game sucks..." in those rants so no good publicity anyways.

    Maybe you should consider making the game really fun and getting good publicity for that instead?

    Pretending your game is something it is not will just come back and haunt you later, you want your customers to like your products, not see you as a liar.
    nah too much work, too little fun. Playing good games sure .. making good games .. why should i bother?

    In fact, it would be a high fun to work ratio if i make a text adv that allows 5 people to log in at one time, call it a MMO, and see the flames here. Sure it is beating a dead horse. But that must be fun, right? Otherwise, why do people still beat the "is MOBA a MMO" dead horse here after YEARS and YEARS of crusade?
    Probably because you keep talking about it.  It seemed like it only take one person to stir up an argument.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    AAAMEOW said:
    Loke666 said:
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
    Already been done more then a few times so the publicity would just be forum rants. besides if your game is not good enough people will state "...but the game sucks..." in those rants so no good publicity anyways.

    Maybe you should consider making the game really fun and getting good publicity for that instead?

    Pretending your game is something it is not will just come back and haunt you later, you want your customers to like your products, not see you as a liar.
    nah too much work, too little fun. Playing good games sure .. making good games .. why should i bother?

    In fact, it would be a high fun to work ratio if i make a text adv that allows 5 people to log in at one time, call it a MMO, and see the flames here. Sure it is beating a dead horse. But that must be fun, right? Otherwise, why do people still beat the "is MOBA a MMO" dead horse here after YEARS and YEARS of crusade?
    Probably because you keep talking about it.  It seemed like it only take one person to stir up an argument.
    nah .. i was gone for a long while (because to be honest, it got boring rehashing the same thing). 

    But what i found when i came back (like a week or so ago)? More MMO definition crusade. So i figure, let's see if the old game is still fun.


  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,558
    AAAMEOW said:
    Loke666 said:
    I will make an online matching shooter that allows for 12 vs 12. Call it a MMO .. then rake in all the free publicity debating whether it is a MMO or not. 

    Or i can just call it a social experiment. 
    Already been done more then a few times so the publicity would just be forum rants. besides if your game is not good enough people will state "...but the game sucks..." in those rants so no good publicity anyways.

    Maybe you should consider making the game really fun and getting good publicity for that instead?

    Pretending your game is something it is not will just come back and haunt you later, you want your customers to like your products, not see you as a liar.
    nah too much work, too little fun. Playing good games sure .. making good games .. why should i bother?

    In fact, it would be a high fun to work ratio if i make a text adv that allows 5 people to log in at one time, call it a MMO, and see the flames here. Sure it is beating a dead horse. But that must be fun, right? Otherwise, why do people still beat the "is MOBA a MMO" dead horse here after YEARS and YEARS of crusade?
    Probably because you keep talking about it.  It seemed like it only take one person to stir up an argument.
    nah .. i was gone for a long while (because to be honest, it got boring rehashing the same thing). 

    But what i found when i came back (like a week or so ago)? More MMO definition crusade. So i figure, let's see if the old game is still fun.


    Quite honestly it's just one guy making a post and all the reply is like what are you talking about.  And the guy making the post go as far as saying moba being labeled as mmorpg when no one is even calling them rpg.

    It really does only take one person to stir an argument. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    AAAMEOW said:

    Quite honestly it's just one guy making a post and all the reply is like what are you talking about.  And the guy making the post go as far as saying moba being labeled as mmorpg when no one is even calling them rpg.

    It really does only take one person to stir an argument. 
    But the point is more than one person here wants to flog that dead horse. 

    The topic "Are MOBAs and Other Match Based Games MMOs?" and "Not everything is an mmorpg" are started by two different individuals. 

    And many more posted. In fact, these two are pretty popular topics with 210 and 137 posts each. 

    I guess i am not disagreeing with you but just to emphasize how much this crusade of MMO definition is popular here. I wonder if that has something to do with the fact that there are few new AAA mmorpgs to talk about.
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