It's not hard to limit number of characters from an IP address. There are even ways of detecting whether your IP is from a normal ISP or a VPN.
Problem with that is what about folks who have friends/family playing on multiple boxes in the same house? They're only hurting themselves by shutting that option down.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If it's a just a few people doing it, it shouldn't be a problem. If it is a large group of people, then maybe it says something about the "true" population size? Lots of players want non-solo games especially for sandbox mmos. But if you look back at eg SWG, people had multiple accounts (some with and some without boxxing) just to be able to manage certain things otherwise only dependency on others would allow (crafting, strong enemies, etc). The "loud"/"active" people say one thing, the majority of players act another way - there must be a reason so many (online) games go the "solo" path.
It's not hard to limit number of characters from an IP address. There are even ways of detecting whether your IP is from a normal ISP or a VPN.
Except they can't do that. For instance, you have many places where the Internet access is for the whole building and then distributed inside to individual apartments, so the external IP will be the same for all flats.
Yeah there are a number of scenarios such an action would shutdown that would hurt more than it would help. Dorms, Gaming centers, "lan" party type events, etc... I've had 6 playing from my own home before when I played SWG on certain nights.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You cant have a company building a game and stating its all about the game being more social and community driven then allow boxing which is the exact opposite of that declared stance.
Sadly though taking a more pragmatic view, if you make an MMORPG that is 80%+ group centric you are going to create situation where people feel like they have to box to achieve their personnel goals.
It is a known for most MMORPG,s over the last decade, hence the flood of crap Solo MMORPG,s that thought they were addressing the issue, while at the same time missing the point by a million miles
Myself I hate boxing as it strikes me as a failure of MMORPG design, plus why the hell am I paying multi subs to enjoy a game (follow the money if something makes no sense, looking at you EVE).
So it appears that we are being made to feel forced to box an account so that one person generates 2 to 5 extra accounts, that and the fact as MMORPG,s got more popular in the last 15 years the whole PUG factor, plus getting any group of people to act together in anything above the level of herding 30 crack crazed cats makes boxing more than attractive its a must.
So I hate it, I don't do it, (apart from Eve for awhile, and I hated myself for doing it) but I begrudgingly see why it is, what it is.
Boxxing is running 2 or more characters at once by having more than one or several accounts and a computer that is strong enough to run more than one game client. It is common in EQ for there to be entire groups run by one person.
It seems to
me that all the people that are against soloing should be even
moreso against boxxing since its just as anti-social plus it takes away
group content from groups and reduces the population of players looking for groups. EQ has recently started a no-boxxing server
by not allowing 2 accounts to run from the same computer. Its still
possible if you have 2 or more computers but by all accounts it has
greatly diminished boxxing on that server.
Should Pantheon copy that idea?
Stopping it is just bad business.
Square that position with the anti-solo stance. Why allow boxing but be against soloing? They both support the business.
It's not hard to limit number of characters from an IP address. There are even ways of detecting whether your IP is from a normal ISP or a VPN.
Problem with that is what about folks who have friends/family playing on multiple boxes in the same house? They're only hurting themselves by shutting that option down.
I didn't say limiting it to one person. Just limiting. It really isn't hard to tell whether characters are played by one person, automated, or played by multiple people.
Left entirely unchecked, boxing will have a huge negative impact on Pantheon.
It's not hard to limit number of characters from an IP address. There are even ways of detecting whether your IP is from a normal ISP or a VPN.
Problem with that is what about folks who have friends/family playing on multiple boxes in the same house? They're only hurting themselves by shutting that option down.
I didn't say limiting it to one person. Just limiting. It really isn't hard to tell whether characters are played by one person, automated, or played by multiple people.
Left entirely unchecked, boxing will have a huge negative impact on Pantheon.
I get that it's just one of those "hard to get right" aspects of protecting the game. Just about anytime they step in that way, they're hurting legit players as well, at least if they just set a number and go with it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I like Pantheons approach. No rules against boxing, just design the game to make it very inefficient to do and the "problem" will solve itself.
If one character require high maintenance, combine with roles and relative quick reaction (I assume they will ramp that up from what we seen in stream), then it should be very risky and in many cases impossible to do rewarding stuff.
For example, you don't 12 box a wow raid, you don't even dual box in a wow raid - That is to me proof that it is possible to make a system like that. And so what if someone boxes trivial stuff and has fun, they will never reach YOU in power.
Fewer rule lawyers, less butthurt, let people enjoy the game as they like and you can enjoy it as you like - And the developers can focus on making the game better instead spending time on petitions and player police.
I would also point out... did anyone notice how combat has changed in recent streams? The number of spells being used and how often (and quickly) players needed to be healed? Also a lot less sitting around meditating during combat.
Looks a lot less multi-box friendly now than it did a year ago, that's for sure.
This was a sign of a failure/negative point to older games.
The need to buy another box/sub and find a work-around in order to progress without waiting around for hours is a failure of game design, period.
Trust me, I leveled several DPS characters in FFXI, EQ, etc so I remember not-so-fondly sitting on my ass with a flag up or shouting lfp sometimes for over an hour just to get an xp group together that would last an hour or two and then disband and go right back to step one.
That is not a "slower" leveling pace that is a slow chug followed screeching halt over and over until you have whiplash from it.
Require groups if you must for leveling content, make it easy to do so though.
Edit: Easy way to help with this: A great mentoring/level sync system that incentives all involved.
Also a lot less sitting around meditating during combat.
I think I saw at one point, they were meditating without sitting in the stream. So I wonder if that was the case, is there a reason for it? Maybe you need to sit to switch out spells/abilities?
Also a lot less sitting around meditating during combat.
I think I saw at one point, they were meditating without sitting in the stream. So I wonder if that was the case, is there a reason for it? Maybe you need to sit to switch out spells/abilities?
Not sure what you're referring to. Meditation without sitting? I do know to switch out spells you apparently have to be out of combat. At least that's the intention as of now. They did meditate out of combat sitting, and still sit at times during combat, but the point is that the pace has increased which would be problematic for playing multiple clients.
Just curious as to why they are bothering to sit, if they can just meditate standing up.
To my knowledge, meditation still requires the player to sit. Meditation referring to activating regeneration abilities. You do regenerate some things standing, but mana I believe requires sitting/meditation for the regen to kick in.
And yes, just before that spot at 49:46 Joppa did have to sit to memorize an ability.
Just curious as to why they are bothering to sit, if they can just meditate standing up.
To my knowledge, meditation still requires the player to sit. Meditation referring to activating regeneration abilities. You do regenerate some things standing, but mana I believe requires sitting/meditation for the regen to kick in.
And yes, just before that spot at 49:46 Joppa did have to sit to memorize an ability.
What do you think they're doing at that spot then? Not challenging you - just curious. It looks like they're channeling something with those blue rays coming from their body.
Boxxing is one of those dealbreakers for me. I know they can't eliminate it, but if they make no efforts or rules or anything to combat it, I won't play the game.
Edit: For the reason Dullahan listed above. In an MMO without instances where group content is limited, and "slots" in dungeons and such are a limited resource, boxing is 100% bad.
If it were any normal run of the mill everything is instanced game, I could care less if people box because they're not taking opportunity away from non boxing players.
Anything that would give an advantage to a player who has more money that a player with less money is by definition P2W.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
It's not worth the effort to try to fight multi-boxers. Let those people have their fun the way they want. They are paying for it after all.
However, input-multiplexing .... that's maybe where they should draw the line. One person shouldn't be able to send the same command to multiple game sessions with the press of a single button.
But one person playing multiple accounts at the same time? Hey, if they can manage all that, whatever.
You're being pedantic, they're effectively the same thing. It is a literal impossibility for someone to play say 4 characters at the same time without input multiplexing. Having a healer let's say follow you around that you can turn around and use to heal here and there is technically multiboxing but not in the spirit of this conversation and not what most people were doing. Having a second account that you have a druid or something you could log in to teleport people around is technically multiboxing, but they're not actually playing the character in a group in a dungeon, etc.
The vast majority of people who "boxed" used input replicators and automation scripts to the point the extra accounts essentially played themselves. Which is why you would see 1 physical person taking up an entire camp in a dungeon playing an entire group of characters.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Just curious as to why they are bothering to sit, if they can just meditate standing up.
To my knowledge, meditation still requires the player to sit. Meditation referring to activating regeneration abilities. You do regenerate some things standing, but mana I believe requires sitting/meditation for the regen to kick in.
And yes, just before that spot at 49:46 Joppa did have to sit to memorize an ability.
What do you think they're doing at that spot then? Not challenging you - just curious. It looks like they're channeling something with those blue rays coming from their body.
Oh wow, I didn't even notice that when I looked at it just now. Perhaps meditation can now be activated while standing. That is actually something we discussed on official forums after the last stream in December, but I hadn't heard it brought up. It does indeed look like they're meditating standing up.
How do you discourage it? Only allow one account per IP? Arent you jsut hurting your sales that way? Also I really dont foresee this game getting millions of players...I'd guesstimate 100k is about as high as it will get....its an old school game aimed at an old school crowd.
Comments
IP blocks are a no go in the ndustry.
IP blocks are a no go in the industry.
IP blocks are a no go in the industry.
IP blocks are a no go in the industry.
IP blocks are a no go in the industry.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lots of players want non-solo games especially for sandbox mmos. But if you look back at eg SWG, people had multiple accounts (some with and some without boxxing) just to be able to manage certain things otherwise only dependency on others would allow (crafting, strong enemies, etc).
The "loud"/"active" people say one thing, the majority of players act another way - there must be a reason so many (online) games go the "solo" path.
--------------------------------------------
Youtube newb:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96N3cxBuqKTPV2BQNlzGUw
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sadly though taking a more pragmatic view, if you make an MMORPG that is 80%+ group centric you are going to create situation where people feel like they have to box to achieve their personnel goals.
It is a known for most MMORPG,s over the last decade, hence the flood of crap Solo MMORPG,s that thought they were addressing the issue, while at the same time missing the point by a million miles
Myself I hate boxing as it strikes me as a failure of MMORPG design, plus why the hell am I paying multi subs to enjoy a game (follow the money if something makes no sense, looking at you EVE).
So it appears that we are being made to feel forced to box an account so that one person generates 2 to 5 extra accounts, that and the fact as MMORPG,s got more popular in the last 15 years the whole PUG factor, plus getting any group of people to act together in anything above the level of herding 30 crack crazed cats makes boxing more than attractive its a must.
So I hate it, I don't do it, (apart from Eve for awhile, and I hated myself for doing it) but I begrudgingly see why it is, what it is.
Follow my Blog at: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/123bentilador
Why allow boxing but be against soloing? They both support the business.
Left entirely unchecked, boxing will have a huge negative impact on Pantheon.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If one character require high maintenance, combine with roles and relative quick reaction (I assume they will ramp that up from what we seen in stream), then it should be very risky and in many cases impossible to do rewarding stuff.
For example, you don't 12 box a wow raid, you don't even dual box in a wow raid - That is to me proof that it is possible to make a system like that. And so what if someone boxes trivial stuff and has fun, they will never reach YOU in power.
Fewer rule lawyers, less butthurt, let people enjoy the game as they like and you can enjoy it as you like - And the developers can focus on making the game better instead spending time on petitions and player police.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Looks a lot less multi-box friendly now than it did a year ago, that's for sure.
This was a sign of a failure/negative point to older games.
The need to buy another box/sub and find a work-around in order to progress without waiting around for hours is a failure of game design, period.
Trust me, I leveled several DPS characters in FFXI, EQ, etc so I remember not-so-fondly sitting on my ass with a flag up or shouting lfp sometimes for over an hour just to get an xp group together that would last an hour or two and then disband and go right back to step one.
That is not a "slower" leveling pace that is a slow chug followed screeching halt over and over until you have whiplash from it.
Require groups if you must for leveling content, make it easy to do so though.
Edit: Easy way to help with this: A great mentoring/level sync system that incentives all involved.
At 50:20 in.
Just curious as to why they are bothering to sit, if they can just meditate standing up.
And yes, just before that spot at 49:46 Joppa did have to sit to memorize an ability.
Boxxing is one of those dealbreakers for me. I know they can't eliminate it, but if they make no efforts or rules or anything to combat it, I won't play the game.
Edit: For the reason Dullahan listed above. In an MMO without instances where group content is limited, and "slots" in dungeons and such are a limited resource, boxing is 100% bad.
If it were any normal run of the mill everything is instanced game, I could care less if people box because they're not taking opportunity away from non boxing players.
Anything that would give an advantage to a player who has more money that a player with less money is by definition P2W.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You're being pedantic, they're effectively the same thing. It is a literal impossibility for someone to play say 4 characters at the same time without input multiplexing. Having a healer let's say follow you around that you can turn around and use to heal here and there is technically multiboxing but not in the spirit of this conversation and not what most people were doing. Having a second account that you have a druid or something you could log in to teleport people around is technically multiboxing, but they're not actually playing the character in a group in a dungeon, etc.
The vast majority of people who "boxed" used input replicators and automation scripts to the point the extra accounts essentially played themselves. Which is why you would see 1 physical person taking up an entire camp in a dungeon playing an entire group of characters.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4678/meditation