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CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934

    Gdemami said:



    Torval said:



    Of course they're pro-active against third party sellers, but they're definitely not anti-rmt. They sell the resource and let players freely trade that "real-money-transaction" conversion from currency to PLEX and then to ISK.

    And everyone claims to have the most proactive anti rmt program - Blizzard, CCP, NCSoft (hahaha - that was a joke). I think that's actually the point. How much to they spend trying to fight RMT and they're already established with funds to do so. It's not like they're successful. They just have a great PR machine marketing their valiant attempts. "No one can say they don't care or try!" - See they got you on board.
    There are 2 things being mixed up together.

    1) Exchange of virtual goods for real money.
    2) Activities tied with 3rd party servicies providing exchange of virtual goods for real money.

    The former isn't an issue, the latter is and what game companies are fighting.




    You summarized my point. Thanks.

    I get the vendor (dev studio) sells virtual goods for money (sanctioned rmt) and third party vendors are banned from selling virtual goods for money (sanctioned rmt).

    My point is the activity *is* sanctioned and the cost of fighting third party vendors from selling virtual goods and services is astronomical and a losing battle with moving goalposts. Not even the giants are successful. It's a study in futility.

    I'm not knocking any studio or publisher for failing to eradicate third party rmt sales.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 178
    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,028

    MrTuggles said:

    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.


    Sigh, another one lost to the dark side.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851

    MrTuggles said:

    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.


    Ask the Diablo3 devs how that went...
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934

    Hashbrick said:



    MrTuggles said:


    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.




    Ask the Diablo3 devs how that went...


    The exception only proves that it is not a guaranteed success. There are successful games with RMT. Entropia Universe has been that way for years. EQ2 had a successful RMT server for a few years as well (The Bazaar).

    It depends on what the actual game is like and what community evolves around that. It's hard to say whether this will work for or against them. There is cost and risk either direction they take. This is obviously the more controversial, although I don't think they feel shoehorned into any future position on the matter based on their response to this topic.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,272
    Have you heard about the new version of Monopoly?

    You can buy a house for $500 game money or $1 real money. I just played my kid (sucks to be him) and whooped his ass. Cost me $20, that's less than lunch ;)

    Tru story bro's

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 178

    Kyleran said:



    MrTuggles said:


    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.




    Sigh, another one lost to the dark side.





    Not lost to the dark side at all. I pledged to into a count package and then did a few more donations to the game. The ability to be able to sell off my title, county, holdings, houses, etc if I get bored with the game is really intriguing to me. 

    I believe in what the company is doing with the game. It checks all of the boxes that I have been waiting for in a new game. Housing, PvP, player run economy, pets, kingdom building and land/asset management through it (think RTS style as you have to allocate resources to the different areas in your controlled area), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. The community is already one of the best that I have seen with entire kingdoms already coming together in the initial game.

    People have also been bashing the fact that you can "buy" resources, housing, pets, etc prior to the full release during exposition period. This was designed this way to allow the people who backed the game in the start to actually build the world that the players will be in at release. Instead of a barren land we will have thriving kingdoms and areas for everyone.IMO it was a great decision on their part.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980

    laserit said:

    Have you heard about the new version of Monopoly?

    You can buy a house for $500 game money or $1 real money. I just played my kid (sucks to be him) and whooped his ass. Cost me $20, that's less than lunch ;)

    Tru story bro's


    Well that's pay to win.   The way we do it is that BEFORE the game starts, I get to buy property, houses and hotels.  This way it's Pay to Build so when the other players get to join it seems realistic and gets right to the fun part of where they get to watch me dominate the game.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,028




    MrTuggles said:





    Kyleran said:







    MrTuggles said:




    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.








    Sigh, another one lost to the dark side.









    Not lost to the dark side at all. I pledged to into a count package and then did a few more donations to the game. The ability to be able to sell off my title, county, holdings, houses, etc if I get bored with the game is really intriguing to me. 

    I believe in what the company is doing with the game. It checks all of the boxes that I have been waiting for in a new game. Housing, PvP, player run economy, pets, kingdom building and land/asset management through it (think RTS style as you have to allocate resources to the different areas in your controlled area), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. The community is already one of the best that I have seen with entire kingdoms already coming together in the initial game.

    People have also been bashing the fact that you can "buy" resources, housing, pets, etc prior to the full release during exposition period. This was designed this way to allow the people who backed the game in the start to actually build the world that the players will be in at release. Instead of a barren land we will have thriving kingdoms and areas for everyone.IMO it was a great decision on their part.




    I agree with you with regards to the building of the world.
    Unfortunately people here think we are using the early access for ourselves not to build a world for others.

    With regards selling my title, I would rather give it away when I am bored.


    Hopefully someone will have taken it from you before then. ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980




    MrTuggles said:





    Kyleran said:







    MrTuggles said:




    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.








    Sigh, another one lost to the dark side.









    Not lost to the dark side at all. I pledged to into a count package and then did a few more donations to the game. The ability to be able to sell off my title, county, holdings, houses, etc if I get bored with the game is really intriguing to me. 

    I believe in what the company is doing with the game. It checks all of the boxes that I have been waiting for in a new game. Housing, PvP, player run economy, pets, kingdom building and land/asset management through it (think RTS style as you have to allocate resources to the different areas in your controlled area), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. The community is already one of the best that I have seen with entire kingdoms already coming together in the initial game.

    People have also been bashing the fact that you can "buy" resources, housing, pets, etc prior to the full release during exposition period. This was designed this way to allow the people who backed the game in the start to actually build the world that the players will be in at release. Instead of a barren land we will have thriving kingdoms and areas for everyone.IMO it was a great decision on their part.




    I agree with you with regards to the building of the world.
    Unfortunately people here think we are using the early access for ourselves not to build a world for others.

    With regards selling my title, I would rather give it away when I am bored.


    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695

    If people have a lot of time, but little money, want to use that as a way to create in-game items which they then sell to other players who have disposable income but less free-time, we view that as a win-win.


    I have disposable income and much less free-time and I fucking hate this. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980
















    MrTuggles said:









    Kyleran said:











    MrTuggles said:






    This is absolutely awesome that we are able to sell in game items. The RMT market is in every single game. CoE is just embracing that it happens and moving on. This should allow them to allocate their resources into better places than catching these types of people.












    Sigh, another one lost to the dark side.













    Not lost to the dark side at all. I pledged to into a count package and then did a few more donations to the game. The ability to be able to sell off my title, county, holdings, houses, etc if I get bored with the game is really intriguing to me. 

    I believe in what the company is doing with the game. It checks all of the boxes that I have been waiting for in a new game. Housing, PvP, player run economy, pets, kingdom building and land/asset management through it (think RTS style as you have to allocate resources to the different areas in your controlled area), etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. The community is already one of the best that I have seen with entire kingdoms already coming together in the initial game.

    People have also been bashing the fact that you can "buy" resources, housing, pets, etc prior to the full release during exposition period. This was designed this way to allow the people who backed the game in the start to actually build the world that the players will be in at release. Instead of a barren land we will have thriving kingdoms and areas for everyone.IMO it was a great decision on their part.








    I agree with you with regards to the building of the world.
    Unfortunately people here think we are using the early access for ourselves not to build a world for others.

    With regards selling my title, I would rather give it away when I am bored.






    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  




    My claim at what the baron title or the fact I will give it away?

    No way I can prove either to you, but all I can say is that I have offered  the baron title to a couple of my guild members already.
    I don't want it really but I will play my first life at it and go from there.


    So you would have bought an advantage for a guild member instead of yourself.  That's anecdotal at best.  Reality is that a chunk of those 11,000 are going to be focused on getting an advantage.  As I said, do you think the Goons who have pledged are just doing so to Pay to Build?  LOL  Even on the home forums, many former and current critics of mine are complaining that this is over the top P2W now that they have seen the ability to purchase LEGENDARY castles, technology, animals, etc...



    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,980
    I don't get it. Why would anyone want RMT in any game? Has society become so lazy that they can't earn stuff on their own?

    RMT fan buys a game, then buys the best stuff in the game. Afterwards, they solo the only world boss and win without a scratch. Yes, let's spend $100's or even $1000's of dollars to shrink the value of a game into what was best quoted in Fight Club as, "A single serving lifestyle."

    Seriously, wtf is wrong with gamers today. No use of imagination, highly dependent on graphics. No sense of adventure or a desire to explore. Just give me my shit now, I don't have time for any of that.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980

    Rhoklaw said:

    I don't get it. Why would anyone want RMT in any game? Has society become so lazy that they can't earn stuff on their own?

    RMT fan buys a game, then buys the best stuff in the game. Afterwards, they solo the only world boss and win without a scratch. Yes, let's spend $100's or even $1000's of dollars to shrink the value of a game into what was best quoted in Fight Club as, "A single serving lifestyle."

    Seriously, wtf is wrong with gamers today. No use of imagination, highly dependent on graphics. No sense of adventure or a desire to explore. Just give me my shit now, I don't have time for any of that.


    You are not looking at the bigger picture :)   Follow this to the eventual progression.

    Why buy ITEMS to kill the world boss.  Why not just buy the World Boss Kill?  maybe eventually this becomes another of those Win-Win's that Caspien talked about.  This was developers don;t actually have to even create the World Boss.  They can save tons of money on asset development and bypass the actual physical encounter!  Insert coin.. WIN!   

    This way the developer saves money on actually developing AND gets revenue from the whale.  Win-Win!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Rhoklaw said:

    I don't get it. Why would anyone want RMT in any game? Has society become so lazy that they can't earn stuff on their own?

    RMT fan buys a game, then buys the best stuff in the game. Afterwards, they solo the only world boss and win without a scratch. Yes, let's spend $100's or even $1000's of dollars to shrink the value of a game into what was best quoted in Fight Club as, "A single serving lifestyle."

    Seriously, wtf is wrong with gamers today. No use of imagination, highly dependent on graphics. No sense of adventure or a desire to explore. Just give me my shit now, I don't have time for any of that.


    I'm not sure if it's really the PVE fan that is doing this kind of thing, while I'd guess there are some, in my experience most heavy RMT is PVP related. As well as the goal is almost always seeking an edge over other players. In a world where performance enhancing drugs is an everyday problem in competitive sports, this shouldn't really come as a surprise. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Azrael_AntaryonAzrael_Antaryon Member UncommonPosts: 40

    Rhoklaw said:

    I don't get it. Why would anyone want RMT in any game? Has society become so lazy that they can't earn stuff on their own?

    RMT fan buys a game, then buys the best stuff in the game. Afterwards, they solo the only world boss and win without a scratch. Yes, let's spend $100's or even $1000's of dollars to shrink the value of a game into what was best quoted in Fight Club as, "A single serving lifestyle."

    Seriously, wtf is wrong with gamers today. No use of imagination, highly dependent on graphics. No sense of adventure or a desire to explore. Just give me my shit now, I don't have time for any of that.


    And the people playing this game like that will be bored with it fast, and quit. Thus producing a healthy game community, who is there for the adventure and fun of exploring the world and taking part in the ongoing story.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,067
    edited May 2017
    Torval said:
    You summarized my point.

    No, I did not. Game devs are NOT fighting selling virtual goods by 3rd parties.

    If RMT 3rd parties were not using bots, stolen CC, hacked player accounts, etc. they would likely wouldn't care since there would be no (worthwhile) harm done to the company and the game.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,272

    Gdemami said:




    Torval said:



    You summarized my point.






    No, I did not. Game devs are NOT fighting selling virtual goods by 3rd parties.


    Didn't your mommy teach you that taking snippets from people's replies is rude. It also weakens any argument you might have.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,207

    laserit said:



    Gdemami said:






    Torval said:




    You summarized my point.








    No, I did not. Game devs are NOT fighting selling virtual goods by 3rd parties.




    Didn't your mommy teach you that taking snippets from people's replies is rude. It also weakens any argument you might have.


    Agreed. Let's do it to him shall we?


    Gdemami said:
     harm 


    I don't think you know what that word means.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 178
    edited May 2017






    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  








    I have put about 1000$ into the game so far. Bought a count package during kickstarter campaign, and bought a bunch of EP to give myself an edge, but an edge in what?

    You have to take into consideration that this game is on par with the way Eve works, but your character can permanently die. The game is full loot, and everything is player made. If you look at the EP store and see you can buy all that good legendary stuff at 100x the price of a normal item and then realize that you can lose that item that just cost you 200$ you think twice about doing it. Or how about buying some legendary pets at 5k EP each (roughly $333 each). Those pets will quite literally die and disappear. Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety. We know the concept, that they have a few working demos, and that is about it.  
    Asm0deusOctagon7711
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,207

    MrTuggles said:

     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.


    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.
    NyteWytchAsm0deusRusqueOctagon7711
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Gdemami said:

    If RMT 3rd parties were not using bots, stolen CC, hacked player accounts, etc. they would likely wouldn't care since there would be no (worthwhile) harm done to the company and the game.


    You're probably right there, as that's what draws the communities attention to it. Especially bots and hacking, there's also spam messages and mail as well. 

    Without those things the general community would be more or less oblivious to it. Hence the devs would feel no need to act. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 178

    Iselin said:



    MrTuggles said:


     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.




    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.



    I am buying into the concept of the game because it checks all the boxes of what I've been waiting for in an mmo since vanilla UO. If it releases and meets half of the expectations I have I will be happy.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980

    MrTuggles said:









    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  










    I have put about 1000$ into the game so far. Bought a count package during kickstarter campaign, and bought a bunch of EP to give myself an edge, but an edge in what?

    You have to take into consideration that this game is on par with the way Eve works, but your character can permanently die. The game is full loot, and everything is player made. If you look at the EP store and see you can buy all that good legendary stuff at 100x the price of a normal item and then realize that you can lose that item that just cost you 200$ you think twice about doing it. Or how about buying some legendary pets at 5k EP each (roughly $333 each). Those pets will quite literally die and disappear. Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety. We know the concept, that they have a few working demos, and that is about it.  


    So you use an edge case to try and create some question about the advantage. OK how about these?

    I buy myself a Legendary castle?
    I buy myself some Legendary technology schools/buildings?
    I buy myself some Legendary mounts and then breed them?

    Your argument is summed up by "Using real money to buy better stuff is not an advantage", which of course.. is silly.

    Also the whole permadeath thing is a red-herring as you simply (of course) buy another soul and transfer all your stuff to them, including inheritance of your title and lands.

    GdemamiOctagon7711Asm0deus

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 623
    I don't think it really matters at this point. The anti-p2w people have long discarded this game from their watchlist, the devs might as well go all in.

    In related news, bringing a bazooka to a knife fight is not an unfair advantage. Because theoretically you could step on a banana peel, lose your footing and blow yourself up while doing a summersault.

    Asm0deusGdemamiOctagon7711
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