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  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,162







    I hope thats A joke because that is not a PANTHEON pic.




    Yeah, actually looking at Pantheon screenshots (the video does the game no justice in the graphics department), it does look more in the Rift range or so.


    That was my thinking as well and 10 years above EQ in the graphics department is a nice jump and quite good enough for me considering this is a niche being made by an indie studio.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,239

    Dullahan said:




    You're being intentionally naive here. Yes, the situation with crowdfunding sucks. In general, both consumers and developers think it sucks. Don't you think they would rather just get investment money day 1 and rent a studio and fill it with talented artists and developers? The game would probably already be out if that was an option.

    It wasn't an option.

    It wasn't an option for Garriot. It wasn't an option for Jacobs. It wasn't an option for Walton. It wasn't an option for Coleman. It wasn't an option for McQuaid either. Even Smedley crashed and burned via kickstarter before Amazon picked him up.

    None of the biggest names in mmos could procure enough funding to go the traditional route. It's not like they didn't try. The genre is currently in a really bad place, and confidence is low after billions were spent on mmos that failed to generate projected earnings.

    Enter crowdfunding. Though it sucks, it's something both developers and consumers are willing to endure if it means there's a chance for games that we want to play again. It's simply the only way we're going to see them. I guess you can pray that a developer you like will hit the lottery. For the rest of us, we're willing to risk some money for a game we are confident will provide many years of enjoyment.

    So can we just get past this? Yes it sucks. No, it's not inherently shady for someone to utilize it when people are willingly pledging their own money. Yes, some people will abuse the system. At this point, it's more than obvious that Pantheon is not one of them.




    While i see MadFrenchie's point, and he's right there are a lot of people who are willing to give developers a blank check "'cause", your post is spot on. And using the word "endure" also seems spot on.

    You are correct, we don't really "want" to be spending inordinate amounts of money but we see the need. Developers don't want to have to rely upon a possible kickstarter success, they want to just have their investment, make their game and hopefully they've done their job well.

    And yeah, it sucks. But here we are.

    The kickstarter link in my signature is for a game that I REALLY like and it seems they have a lot done. But it's not going to get funded. Not at the rate it's going and the developers don't seem to grasp that they need to really be talking it up. I'm sure they would just like to finish it and see who buys it (I would).

    It's like everything is a crap shoot these days.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,095




    Nanfoodle said:


    This conversation is getting silly. First off people who liked EQ1 have supported that game for over 18 years. Many (like myself) are sick of playing graphics and a UI that's also 18 years old. Many feel like myself that they want an updated 2017 game that plays like EQ1. If people want to support that, what makes you so brighter then any of us to say we should not? I will spend my money as I wish. Sovrath has been kind to point out people support what they like. I will punch you in the face with it. Unless someone is doing something dishonest. What right do you have to criticize anyone for it? 

    If someone wants to call Pantheon an awesome game. What right to you have to call into question their judgement? We all see the world with our own colored glasses. I hate AA and yet I do not spend hours on their forums questioning people's judgment for liking that game. 

    Unless I'm missing something and you seek to have your mind changed or looking for info?




    Sorry, but I'm not sure where I ever mentioned Pantheon by name?  Nor where I specifically criticized Pantheon itself or any interested backers.  Again, for the 3rd time now...  Reread the post I originally responded to.  Read my response.  Now we can continue arguing two completely different topics, or you can recognize I'm speaking in general about what crowdfunding has become and stop with the knee-jerk reflex to defend your favorite crowdfunded title like I just claimed it was vaporware or something.

    We happen to be in the Pantheon subforum, sure.  But if you're reading two he content of my posts, it's quite obvious my argument isn't against a specific title, but a general argument against what crowdfunding has become.


    Then I say sorry. Seems an odd place to take that up in? This is a Pantheon sub forum. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    Sovrath said:








    While i see MadFrenchie's point, and he's right there are a lot of people who are willing to give developers a blank check "'




    On one hand I can understand his point as well, however on the other it's the same type of person responsible for me getting to play things like Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, etc... They'll also be responsible when I get to load up CU, CF, Ashes, Pantheon, etc... 

    I'd feel quite silly bemoaning these folks, and then turning around and reaping the reward they helped make possible. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,095
    edited May 2017


    Distopia said:






    Sovrath said:














    While i see MadFrenchie's point, and he's right there are a lot of people who are willing to give developers a blank check "'








    On one hand I can understand his point as well, however on the other it's the same type of person responsible for me getting to play things like Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, etc... They'll also be responsible when I get to load up CU, CF, Ashes, Pantheon, etc... 

    I'd feel quite silly bemoaning these folks, and then turning around and reaping the reward they helped make possible. 





     I was very opposed to crowd finding and a few games later like Banner Saga and seeing all the names of the backers in the credits. Made me think twice about my stance. Pantheon was my first game I backed. Now I will only jump in when I feel sure about game direction and I feel the Devs are up front with us. 

    Like I want to back Ashes but I don't have the info I want to know if I will enjoy combat and crafting. Also where they say they are in development dose not add up with what they have shown us. I posted on their sub forums I would have bought 2 pledges for my wife and I if they gave me the info I wanted. 

    Only reply I got is they have a dev that loves Bards. So I will not back them. I have wanted to back Pantheon for a year now but the Dev stream sold me. I got the info I needed to jump in. I think we all have a line we would find it worth jumping in on some game sometime. I don't buy into blind faith. Faith to me means seeing evidence I'm willing to invest in. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    Nanfoodle said:




     I was very opposed to crowd finding and a few games later like Banner Saga and seeing all the names of the backers in the credits. Made me think twice about my stance. Pantheon was my first game I backed. Now I will only jump in when I feel sure about game direction and I feel the Devs are up front with us. 

    Like I want to back Ashes but I don't have the info I want to know if I will enjoy combat and crafting. Also where they say they are in development dose not add up with what they have shown us. I posted on their sub forums I would have bought 2 pledges for my wife and I if they gave me the info I wanted. 

    Only reply I got is they have a dev that loves Bards. So I will not back them. I have wanted to back Pantheon for a year now but the Dev stream sold me. I got the info I needed to jump in. I think we all have a line we would find it worth jumping in on some game sometime. I don't buy into blind faith. Faith to me means seeing evidence I'm willing to invest in. 




    I perfectly understand that, I'm even stricter as I won't buy into anything I can't play now. Simply because there are far too many games I haven't played that I can play, to buy something I can't. My wife would also beat me over the head, but that's because of her own thoughts on how many steam games I do own I still haven't played or played just a little :)

    I can understand most reasons why folks don't buy into these games. What I can't understand is why many seem to want to impose their own reasoning onto others, in turn ridiculing them because they don't follow the same rationale. 

    If it's a matter of principle, then the principle should stand even after release because regardless they got there how they got there. If a person is opposed to that or is sickened by it, that shouldn't change because they can now play the game. Otherwise they were just being negative to be negative, as well belittling to belittle, making the use of words such as principle nothing more than an excuse for it. In that case take a queue from Dennis Leary, embrace your inner ahole, don't hide it behind a pretty exterior. 

    Just my 2 cents. 











    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2017
    Ahh I regret that real life took me away from such a lively debate!

    @Nanfoodle I don't generally browse specific forums from my phone, but simply browse the recent discussion page.  I chimed in here not because I have any issue with Pantheon, but because delete's post literally implied we, as consumers, we're lucky to receive ANY benefit to helping developers fund these projects.  I wasn't aware this was in a Pantheon subforum until I started wondering why you guys all wanted to keep mentioning it specifically. ;)

    @Distopia and @Sovrath I get what you guys are saying.  Though I will submit that all those games you enjoy as a result of crowdfunding contained much smaller scopes (aka are not MMORPGs).  I think there's a distinct difference in the nature of those projects when compared to MMORPGs.  I don't like to see anyone get taken by a company, which is part of the reason I feel the need to submit my argument.  Though, as I mentioned previously, I know there's subjectivity involved and not everyone will see my side or take it.  However, the point that irks me most is watching folks make what should be an impartial decision based upon an emotional response to a developer persona or hype video.  And we all know such personas and videos are cultivated consciously to elicit those emotional responses.  Psychology supports the effectiveness of these techniques along the same lines as the RNG lootboxes.  It's an appeal to emotion.  I dislike watching folks utilize that to convince other folks to fork over hard-earned cash without a finished product in return, or even a concrete feature set that we know will be included in the future finished product.


    I also get that you guys would like to not have to crowdfund to get games you wish to play.  As I've mentioned elsewhere, I long for a return to the traditional MMORPG social experience as well.  However, I now have my doubts that crowdfunding is the best answer.

    image
  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294

    Distopia said:



    On one hand I can understand his point as well, however on the other it's the same type of person responsible for me getting to play things like Divinity OS, Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, etc... They'll also be responsible when I get to load up CU, CF, Ashes, Pantheon, etc... 

    I'd feel quite silly bemoaning these folks, and then turning around and reaping the reward they helped make possible. 



    Thanks for the faith and to everyone who has pledged their hard earned money.  This money along with closing our Series A round of investments from accredited investors has allowed the Visionary Realms team to bring Pantheon to the stage you've seen in the two streams we did very recently, as well as other work that is being done that is not yet at the stage where we can show it.  Soon :)

    Once again, a huge thanks to the community for their support -- we'd not be where we are at without you.  You'll be seeing some specific job openings *very* soon that would not have been possible without both sources of funding.  We head now into raising Series B money and continuing crowdfunding which, upon completion, will allow us to grow the team even larger (specifically more environment artists and world builders so that we can create the vast, epic and magical world players will love to explore and adventure in).  

    First will be the completion of the continent King's Reach which will provide us sufficient content to begin pre-alpha 1 testing.  After that the completion of the rest of the continents, which along with completing the gameplay mechanics and features of the game and other necessary content, will allow us to enter beta testing and really get moving on this project.  To say the least, we are extremely excited about how far we've been able to progress as well as what the future holds as we work towards alpha, beta and release!

    thanks again,

    -Brad McQuaid
     CCO, Visionary Realms Inc.
     Executive Producer, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

    http://www.pantheonmmo.com/join/  (pledging)
    http://http//visionaryrealms.com/contact-us/  (Accredited investors interested in funding Series B)

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,024
    The day Brad McQuaid actually reads through horrible threads like this and even posts something in reply. Leave now OP, everybody quits at their highest point and you really couldn't get any better result with posts like yours.

    Thanks for dropping by Brad. Curious about what DMKano is asking too. When my wife has recovered a bit more from having given birth to our second beautiful daughter I am going to check out the pledges and see what fits me. Life is good.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,603

    lahnmir said:

    The day Brad McQuaid actually reads through horrible threads like this and even posts something in reply. Leave now OP, everybody quits at their highest point and you really couldn't get any better result with posts like yours.

    Thanks for dropping by Brad. Curious about what DMKano is asking too. When my wife has recovered a bit more from having given birth to our second beautiful daughter I am going to check out the pledges and see what fits me. Life is good.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir





    Great now that the cats out of the bag lets talk about this !


    It's disgusting that because of selfish posters here it came to this.  We have a team of developers putting everything on the line for us.  Good possibility risking everything for a one shot deal.


    It's disgusting that we have a FULL post floating around ( and it's not the first ) about everyone wants and give me's.  Some are asking for way more than they pledge.


    Do you think that cost is over at release ?........ It just starts !!!!!!

    Yet, people here would like a free ride !!!!!!!

    What, 50% of the forever player base need not pay anything again !!!!!! 


    THIS IS WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE.


    This is what's embarrassing....... And Brad is subjected to this dirty laundry. 
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    It's just amazes me how many of the people couldn't give Pantheon the time of day a year ago or when it was first announced as a kickstarter. 

    "the game will never see the light of day"

    "your mad to pledge to this type of mmo, no one will play it"

    I could go on and on lol. 

    Now fast forward and the same people are here seeing that the game is going to make it and dictating how the devs should proceed or run there game, pathetic twats. 

    I wouldn't even come here now if I was a developer. If you want to pledge then do so, if you don't then oh well np. 

    Seems they are more upset that the game is coming along nicely and it's not the type of mmo they want. 







  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,552
    OP should be ashamed of what he has exposed in this thread and to bring all these things up again and to have Brad read it. You OP are responsible for every statement in this thread because you facilitated it. Shame on you.
    Chamber of Chains
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,036




    lahnmir said:


    The day Brad McQuaid actually reads through horrible threads like this and even posts something in reply. Leave now OP, everybody quits at their highest point and you really couldn't get any better result with posts like yours.

    Thanks for dropping by Brad. Curious about what DMKano is asking too. When my wife has recovered a bit more from having given birth to our second beautiful daughter I am going to check out the pledges and see what fits me. Life is good.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir







    Great now that the cats out of the bag lets talk about this !


    It's disgusting that because of selfish posters here it came to this.  We have a team of developers putting everything on the line for us.  Good possibility risking everything for a one shot deal.


    It's disgusting that we have a FULL post floating around ( and it's not the first ) about everyone wants and give me's.  Some are asking for way more than they pledge.


    Do you think that cost is over at release ?........ It just starts !!!!!!

    Yet, people here would like a free ride !!!!!!!

    What, 50% of the forever player base need not pay anything again !!!!!! 


    THIS IS WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE.


    This is what's embarrassing....... And Brad is subjected to this dirty laundry. 


    Brad took the high road in his response to this thread, consider following his example.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,036
    edited May 2017




    It's just amazes me how many of the people couldn't give Pantheon the time of day a year ago or when it was first announced as a kickstarter. 

    "the game will never see the light of day"

    "your mad to pledge to this type of mmo, no one will play it"

    I could go on and on lol. 

    Now fast forward and the same people are here seeing that the game is going to make it and dictating how the devs should proceed or run there game, pathetic twats. 

    I wouldn't even come here now if I was a developer. If you want to pledge then do so, if you don't then oh well np. 

    Seems they are more upset that the game is coming along nicely and it's not the type of mmo they want. 








    You project a lot of what's in your imagination into other posters responses, most people don't actually care all that much and are here for the entertainment.

    Keep up the good work. ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,386













    I hope thats A joke because that is not a PANTHEON pic.






    Yeah, actually looking at Pantheon screenshots (the video does the game no justice in the graphics department), it does look more in the Rift range or so.




    That was my thinking as well and 10 years above EQ in the graphics department is a nice jump and quite good enough for me considering this is a niche being made by an indie studio.


    On top of that, they don't want the graphical requirements to be so high that the game can't run well on most people's computers.

    They went for state of the art graphics last time in vanguard, and it hurt them. 
    --------------------------------------------
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505

    Kyleran said:








    lahnmir said:



    The day Brad McQuaid actually reads through horrible threads like this and even posts something in reply. Leave now OP, everybody quits at their highest point and you really couldn't get any better result with posts like yours.

    Thanks for dropping by Brad. Curious about what DMKano is asking too. When my wife has recovered a bit more from having given birth to our second beautiful daughter I am going to check out the pledges and see what fits me. Life is good.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir









    Great now that the cats out of the bag lets talk about this !


    It's disgusting that because of selfish posters here it came to this.  We have a team of developers putting everything on the line for us.  Good possibility risking everything for a one shot deal.


    It's disgusting that we have a FULL post floating around ( and it's not the first ) about everyone wants and give me's.  Some are asking for way more than they pledge.


    Do you think that cost is over at release ?........ It just starts !!!!!!

    Yet, people here would like a free ride !!!!!!!

    What, 50% of the forever player base need not pay anything again !!!!!! 


    THIS IS WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE.


    This is what's embarrassing....... And Brad is subjected to this dirty laundry. 




    Brad took the high road in his response to this thread, consider following his example.


    That kind of post (the one you're responding to) was the entire reason I became involved in this thread in the first place.

    It reads more like a stump speech than a post about a friggin' video game.  /facepalm

    image
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,603

    cheyane said:

    OP should be ashamed of what he has exposed in this thread and to bring all these things up again and to have Brad read it. You OP are responsible for every statement in this thread because you facilitated it. Shame on you.



    I don't take the liberal approach and let all kind of nasty stuff happen.


    Never did never will !
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