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CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,790
    Well I guess "learning through experimentation" says it all.
    Who needs details that describe how mechanics really work when you can just put a vague meaningless line to lure in more gullible people?
    Harbinger of Fools
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378









    Dakeru said:













    - With the finite resources, crafting will be completely different than it is in other MMOs. For example, you don't keep collecting and wasting resources to improve your skill, but rather you learn through experimentation, lessons, and practice. 









    This is just vague nonsense.

    This is the same bullshit as Trump declaring that he will remove Obamacare and when he finally brings the details to the table it's so bad that not even his own people want anything to do with it.

    I really have no idea how people can be so gullible.. it's like the last 10 years of overpromising features in games haven't happen.



    Trump and CoE? Hmm, I don't fail to see the comparison but I guess you do.  Now if you would actually explain to me how you figure it is Vague Nonsense than I might be able to debate the issue with you.

    It has been a known fact as to the game mechanices and has been for some time. If you have a source that can prove me wrong I am more then willing to take a look at it. 




    In all fairness to the overall point he was making, though, crafting in others games is a simulation of experimentation, lessons, and practice.  Experimentation and practice, specifically, will inevitably lead to "wasted resources" in the sense that, while experimenting and practicing, you will inevitably create some less than useful end products.  The resources going into that aren't then available to use on the next attempt.

    I'm purely speaking to your quoted comment here, so if there's some nuance to the crafting system that somehow ensures any item resulting from an experiment or practice run is equally useful and/or can be recycled to further progress in some way, that could obviously change things.

    I respect your input, and that is the great thing about communicating through text. It is not always taken as it is meant.  

    Let me try to clarify. Much like the real world resources, resources can and will be re-used in Elyria. In fact, it is encouraged through the skill progression. CoE's system is not set up to have to gather massive amounts of resources and keep making the same thing over and over to improve your skill. When in fact, if you just keep attempting to do the same thing repetitively, you will not expand your knowledge in that Skill at all. 

    Much of Chronicles of Elyria's design is based off the real world as opposed to the instant gratification of most MMOs out there today. Gathering resources and things of that nature will not be nearly as simplified. 
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,535
    Hopefully this will teach a lot of early supporters who are against a compromised in-game economy a lesson to be more wary about giving games early support before the final details come in.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    Everyone knows a game can change drastically from plan, alpha, beta, to launch.  Whoever believes any game will be exactly like described in the initial planning stage shouldn't believe the hype.  If you want to invest in a game at least wait till beta when you know more of how a game will really be.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112
    edited May 2017




    Beyond the over the top Buy 2 King crowdfunding and the 3 month no-wipe headstart, it appears that they also plan to allow RMT after launch.  Here is a link to the discussion on their official forums.  If this is out of date or there is a clarification please post it in this thread.

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/15050/clarification-on-rmt?page=2#post157123

    Caspian - Today at 9:30 PM When it comes to selling in-game items in a real-world market we effectively have two choices. We can spend countless hours and resources on trying to stop and track people making money off their in-game items, or we can accept that their time has value to them. If people have a lot of time, but little money, want to use that as a way to create in-game items which they then sell to other players who have disposable income but less free-time, we view that as a win-win.





    So I guess CoE dev team doesn't realize that allowing RMT they open themselves up to investigation and potential law suits related to alleged money laundering activities or unpaid sales taxes, etc.

    There is a reason why the makers of EVE Online and WoW actively fight RMT.

    CoE dev team is either ignorant (likely since they lack experience in so many areas) or are just lazy.

    Edit - one example of this:
    http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/valve-sued-for-promoting-illegal-gambling-in-counter-strike-global-offensive-853288
  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,377

    Dakeru said:

    Well I guess "learning through experimentation" says it all.
    Who needs details that describe how mechanics really work when you can just put a vague meaningless line to lure in more gullible people?


    You just described the the MMORPG genre, life, the universe and everything else with one single line. Well done.
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,790

    TimEisen said:



    Dakeru said:


    Well I guess "learning through experimentation" says it all.
    Who needs details that describe how mechanics really work when you can just put a vague meaningless line to lure in more gullible people?




    You just described the the MMORPG genre, life, the universe and everything else with one single line. Well done.


    I described the universe by pointing out that Caspian is purposely misleading people by being extra vague?
    The answer is 42.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Iselin said:






    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.




    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.


    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 




    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,257
    @Distopia, No one is denying that RMT doesn't go on behind shadows and on the "black market" in every MMO. 

    There's a big difference though in perception and participation, between saying it's against the rules (and not doing much to stop it from happening), and what CoE did, which was saying that RMT is going to be allowed...

    Last thing I want is to play a game where I constantly feel like I need to participate in RMT to be competitive. 

    --------------------------------------------
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017





    Last thing I want is to play a game where I constantly feel like I need to participate in RMT to be competitive. 





    That's my point in a nutshell though, you always were playing in that environment. That just shows how little it truly effects the overall experience. Because you don't really notice it. You can still play by the rules and fare well in the competitive side of the game (PVP). Which is where it really matters. 

    Accepting that makes it easy to get past the perception you talk about. I accepted that long ago when I was still deeply into SWG. Hence this notion doesn't scare me at all, as I know it will be no different than it was back then. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,974
    It's not that I don't agree with their reason for not bothering with it. However, the blatant disregard and basic promotion of such an economic travesty shows a complete lack of care for their game. At the very least, you could just say, no, it's not allowed, but not do anything to stop it. Public statements like this are worse than shooting yourself in the foot.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,196

    Distopia said:



    Iselin said:









    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.






    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.




    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 






    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,377

    Dakeru said:



    TimEisen said:





    Dakeru said:



    Well I guess "learning through experimentation" says it all.
    Who needs details that describe how mechanics really work when you can just put a vague meaningless line to lure in more gullible people?






    You just described the the MMORPG genre, life, the universe and everything else with one single line. Well done.




    I described the universe by pointing out that Caspian is purposely misleading people by being extra vague?
    The answer is 42.


    I'd say you described much more. I wouldn't say Caspian was misleading people by being extra vague, I'd say he has been consistent and on par with all the KS's. They all try to get as much from us as they can with as little set in stone as they have to. It makes sense because their MMOs will change, and people will complain about it. You have to walk a tricky line. Give enough to get people in but not so much that you are stuck with something you can't pull off. Gotta leave yourself outs and back up plans and work-a-rounds. They all do it, its part of the KS process. 

    Every KS is like a first date, you see and hear everything you ever wanted to. What people fail to realize is, also like a first date, a lot of it is BS, a lot of is will change and you are seeing the best of a person on that date. With every game I back I do so with the hope they pull off a fraction of what they want to. 

    Gullible people are the majority. They dictate this world.  
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,977

    Rhoklaw said:

    It's not that I don't agree with their reason for not bothering with it. However, the blatant disregard and basic promotion of such an economic travesty shows a complete lack of care for their game. At the very least, you could just say, no, it's not allowed, but not do anything to stop it. Public statements like this are worse than shooting yourself in the foot.


    Agree,  but from the beginning it was clear that this game was being designed for the affluent few to spend prodigiously.  The rest of the plebs are around to be their playthings and background actors.  Now there is really no conceivable way that a whale who spent 10-20k on his buy to king pledge can lose it as long as he's willing to keep on spending his money on resources and items and probably even people.  Hey, I can see it now:

    Come join my army for this battle and I'll pay you $25 a head...


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Iselin said:



    Distopia said:





    Iselin said:












    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.








    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.






    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 








    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.


    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KrynKryn Member UncommonPosts: 172
    They will have to take chat completely out of the game before I would attempt to play now.  As useless as it will be they might as well anyway.  Although, honestly, before this thread I had only read the name of the game a few times and never read anything about it until now.  Zero interest before and -5 interest now.
  • KrynKryn Member UncommonPosts: 172
    edited May 2017


    Torval said:


    It's not a few people that do this. No one who doesn't have their head up their butts knows it. We've had threads here before talking about people cheating and most here have done it. A multimillion dollar industry doesn't just pop up because a few people here or there aren't doing it.

    If a game has free trading RMT is going to happen because most mmo gamers are cheaters. There are very few games without a noticable RMT problem. LotRO is one of the few I can think of and that's mostly because very little of value can be traded.

    Most of the cheaters don't care or try and justify it like the guy who always posts about anti-bot software and getting banned from albion for buying gold.

    How many people in this thread have purchased gold/rmt or know a guildie or friend who did and didn't report them? Be honest with yourselves and don't try and make any excuses. Start taking responsibility and accountability for our own problem. If players didn't buy gold devs wouldn't have to fight it.




    I have never actively known anyone that bought anything in a game.  Now,
    that doesn't mean I didn't know people who did but I didn't know about
    it.



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,196

    Distopia said:



    Iselin said:





    Distopia said:







    Iselin said:















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.










    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.








    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 










    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.




    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 


    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,017
    With the way they plan to have their in-game economics set up this will be a disaster.  Wallet warrior's wet dream.  More power to em I guess, they're keeping people employed after all!
  • YanocchiYanocchi Member UncommonPosts: 670
    edited May 2017
    By allowing RMT, developers acknowledge that the virtual goods in their game hold real monetary value, which can indeed make them vulnerable to certain types of lawsuits in some regions of the world. Cancellation of game development can be litigated as a failure to deliver virtual goods. A scam involving in-game items can be litigated as a fraud, etc. The law already knows precedents in such categories. In some countries precedents have established the real monetary value of virtual items.

    One year ago, after development of game X had been cancelled and company Y withheld refunds to early backers, I prepared a litigation in cooperation with a law firm against the company. Company Y decided not to get involved in the legal dispute and settled with a complete refund. While the game had been still in development and they had transactions involving real money and in-game goods, the creative director of game X, who was also CEO of company Y, had promised to allow RMT. This would have been used against them in the litigation, among other things (though they most likely settled not because of this point but because of another contingency built into the litigation, capitalising on their unawareness of one of the newest VAT tax regulations, that would have jeopardised their future projects with a major distributor in the European Union).

    Major companies are aware of these dangers and have experts who consult them on information disclosure but indie companies with their open development approach and less knowledge or experience with legal disputes reveal information without sufficient consideration sometimes and without fear of subpoena duces tecum.
    Baldur's Gate Online - Video Trailer
    * more info, screenshots and videos here

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,014

    Iselin said:



    Distopia said:





    Iselin said:







    Distopia said:









    Iselin said:


















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.












    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.










    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 












    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.






    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 




    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.


    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....
    Asm0deus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,977

    Kyleran said:



    Iselin said:





    Distopia said:







    Iselin said:









    Distopia said:











    Iselin said:





















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.














    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.












    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 














    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.








    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 






    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.




    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....


    Could not agree more... on all points.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017




    Iselin said:











    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.








    I never heard about it in DAOC either, it wasn't until I got heavily involved in SWG's PVP community that I really found out how normal it was there ( I had never even heard of IGE until then(. Most of the people I knew who had Jedi either had the account given to them or bought it. Few frowned on them for that, a lot the popular peeps did it. As long as they played well no one cared. Those who didn't play well was a different story...

    As for things being different, well that depends on what you mean, many games today have binded items so that changes things in itself. As for how many accounts are passed around on the blackmarket, I don't know I'm not as deeply involved in any gaming communities today outside of this forum. As for legal RMT, most of it is cosmetic, at least in the west. In other cases it's problematic sure, like games tying ownership to those who can pay. Yet that kills most of those games in itself. So it's a problem that solves itself.

    As for the blackmarket in general, I don't know how prevalent that is today. I lost my curiosity about that long ago.  

    SO in short in some ways things are more controlled today, not many AAA games have huge PVP crowds either, so that makes it even less likely to be a topic of concern for those games. 

    What is still the same though is the mindset of the overall players IMO. YOu have folks who think cheating makes the whole experience pointless (how I feel about it as well) and play by the book, you have those who only care about a certain aspect and cheat their way there (leveling services, buying toons legally, etc...). Honestly that's a multi-layered question.

    It's also apples to oranges in terms of overall types of games available. We'll see how different it really is when these KS games hit the market, as they're more in line with games of the past. 




    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,196

    Distopia said:





    Iselin said:











    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.








    I never heard about it in DAOC either, it wasn't until I got heavily involved in SWG's PVP community that I really found out how normal it was there ( I had never even heard of IGE until then(. Most of the people I knew who had Jedi either had the account given to them or bought it. Few frowned on them for that, a lot the popular peeps did it. As long as they played well no one cared. Those who didn't play well was a different story...

    As for things being different, well that depends on what you mean, many games today have binded items so that changes things in itself. As for how many accounts are passed around on the blackmarket, I don't know I'm not as deeply involved in any gaming communities today outside of this forum. As for legal RMT, most of it is cosmetic, at least in the west. In other cases it's problematic sure, like games tying ownership to those who can pay. Yet that kills most of those games in itself. So it's a problem that solves itself.

    As for the blackmarket in general, I don't know how prevalent that is today. I lost my curiosity about that long ago.  

    SO in short in some ways things are more controlled today, not many AAA games have huge PVP crowds either, so that makes it even less likely to be a topic of concern for those games. 

    What is still the same though is the mindset of the overall players IMO. YOu have folks who think cheating makes the whole experience pointless (how I feel about it as well) and play by the book, you have those who only care about a certain aspect and cheat their way there (leveling services, buying toons legally, etc...). Honestly that's a multi-layered question.

    It's also apples to oranges in terms overall types of games available. We'll see how different it really is when these KS games hit the market, as they're more in line with games of the past. 






    When I referred to the companies doing it I wasn't thinking of cash shops and cosmetic items. I was thinking more of the schemes where you can buy items from a cash shop and then sell it in game for gold. I.e. gold sales which has always been the most common RMT practice. It's just a different way of selling gold that some seem to think is somehow sanitized by the two step process.

    Many people also defend that while still bashing the black market gold sellers on the basis that the cash is going to the game so it's a good thing for everyone... totally ignoring the issue that it's not doing the concept of fair play or the game's integrity any good.

    And yes, the more competitive the environment, the worse it is for the game.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    Kyleran said:








    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....




    Freeshards are typically more conformed to the specific group responsible for it. The SWG servers are also that way I visit. Everyone is allowed only 1 account as an example. Yet they're more lax in terms of the grind to get to endgame as they're mostly PVP focused. 

    That said that's an apples and oranges comparison, Freeshards are typically one server with a couple thousand players. A much easier environment to police.

    In terms of black market that's another subject entirely as there usually isn't even enough of an audience or traffic to warrant the practice. WOW servers may be a different story though. 

    I certainly hope your "moral compasses" remark wasn't toward me though, as I never said I condone the practice, as I don't at all. I just accept the reality of it existing.






    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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