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Chronciles of Elyria - Not Pay to Win

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,023
    ArChWind said:
    Until this game is actual release material the OP is correct. You can't win if you can't play so why is this thread drawing flies?
    Flies are drawn to crap don't ya know. :p

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Rasiem said:
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

      I understand where your coming from but you actually listed the reason its not P2W remember this is a totally player driven game and the people buying in understand they can lose everything at anytime but tis the fact there paying to basically get the game started. Its not P2W because after launch and correct me if im wrong, you cannot buy kingdoms and titles anymore. Honestly what worries me are hackers I think there needs to be some real next level defense for this game.
    You can't really say, "Just get the game started". Giving a player basic essentials like a bow and some meat is "Just getting started" Giving them kingship, the chance to play 3 months in advance and use irl money to get as much resources before launch, is more than a head start.

    Imho what you said sounds worse, so those who start after the launch will be completely dominated? They maybe able to lose it all, but what is the % of a new player defeating a well established king? Based on their site, it's no a quick and easy task taking the title of a king.

    Imho it just brings real world nonsense in game, i.e, those who have real world wealth will be granted titles and nobility, while those who don't have to work for it.

    Of their site  

    "ownership of land and titles has an impact on the server as a whole."

    Don't get me wrong I think the game looks amazing and is got cool ideas, but I feel they will push more away with this than draw in. It's very disheartening when you join a just launched game and people are already serval months ahead of you and all they did was pay money.

  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

    well if this is true, sorry i didn't dig to much into this game.. but im following it sort of speak(listed), ill scrap it right of the list.

    buying items in a full loot game.. adding that up of buying towns and/or buildings i define defo P2W
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,116
    edited March 2017
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..

    The game also doesn't impress me by the pictures shown to me in snapshots and needs serious improvements and developers who think the way I do over-all I wouldn't fund this game right off.

    Some of the Art-Work is great I see, but other needs major improvements... Wish I had my own company to hire and develop a MMO properly ); so sad.
  • SelzyrSelzyr Member UncommonPosts: 60
    edited March 2017
    simon155 said:
    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.




    Stop being a fanboi please, I'm waiting the game like everyone else, some of the mechanics are interesting others are meh, but CoE clearly has a p2w mechanic(s) on it.

    1-Loosing anything to another player or NPC doesn't change the fact that you had an advantage from the start over the others, tho, if you loose to another player in those conditions, you are clearly stupid.

    2-Doesn't change the fact that you STILL start with an advantage, and if that advantage was obtained with irl money, p2w.

    3-Indeed, but we all know that isn't only extra furniture.

    4-We are clear of that definition, but take a good damm look at what its being offered before you make stupid claims like this.

    5-See point one and two, still, you or anyone else that looses with these kind of advantages can only be called "stupid", doesn't change the fact that you started with an advantage over others obtained with irl money, thus, p2w.

    6-Wrong, you didn't read enough about the game it seems, everyone starts as a nobody(or its supposed to be that way *cough*) but with advantages like Land/Buildings/Resources for a headstart/Mounts(lol)/Siege weapons? fuck me, anyone that buys that kind of shit with irl money has a fucking advatange over little jimmy that is playing the game without spending a single irl dime on it, thus, making that bloke that bought the shit with irl money has a better chance of becoming a King faster then anyone else, question would be, how long it lasts since there will be other morons doing the same.
    p2w.

    7-Perhaps that fanboism is preventing you from seeing things clearly, and the definition of p2w varies from person to person, but on this case most if not all agree that CoE is going heavy on the p2w.
    Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. And the more you know Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. But I can tell you that only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
  • TermiiTermii Member CommonPosts: 6
    edited March 2017
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    You can not spend any money on CoE after release, except 40$ for a copy of the game and 30$ for a Spark of Life (=6 to 12 months subscription) 

    The starting continent is around 27.000km² big. You could buy EVERY parcel(64m x 64m Land) in the game (~70million buyable Plots). Each parcel can be further broken down into plots, which you can rent.(for example 1 x 3 Meter or 1 room in your house).

    Note: even if you own a parcel, you ONLY have rights on it (you can sue people doing illegal stuff on your parcel). The system does NOT prevent others from destroying your buildings. Others can also steal the ownership of your parcel, if they build any building on it and keep it staying for 4 weeks.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Termii said:
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    ... 

    The starting continent is around 27.000km² big. You could buy EVERY parcel(64m x 64m Land) in the game (~70million buyable Plots). Each parcel can be further broken down into plots, which you can rent.(for example 1 x 3 Meter or 1 room in your house).

    ...
    After launch, just check on EBay for the current land rental prices in CoE ! :lol:
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,023
    Termii said:
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    You can not spend any money on CoE after release, except 40$ for a copy of the game and 30$ for a Spark of Life (=6 to 12 months subscription) 
    You can't really count on the Devs holding true to that promise, if they do it will be one of few games that never caved. (not sure there are any now)
    Nilden

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TermiiTermii Member CommonPosts: 6
    edited March 2017
    7-Perhaps that fanboism is preventing you from seeing things clearly, and the definition of p2w varies from person to person, but on this case most if not all agree that CoE is going heavy on the p2w.
    Thats 100% True. I am a fanboy but also an achiever, so beeing able to buy noble titles made me erase CoE from my list for half a year.

    The reason why it is on my list now is this:
    -You dont have to be a noble. Nobles have certain disadvantages that make them useless to play as adventurers.
    -The Land you can buy is not as OP as it seems, since there is simply far too much.
    -you may be able to buy items, but you can also farm them. With SCRIPTS. 24/7.

    Is the game pay2win?

    If you want to play a noble, then YES, it is pay2win. Wait for new continents(1 to 2 years after release) and aim to become a noble there.(after those 1 to 2 years, the game will be fair for all nobles)

    If you want to play an adventurer or crafter, then my answer is between NO and YES. You can get a house for free from your parents after they die.(they have to like you though) You can also become a child of a blacksmith or any other profession(to get access to all important stuff). There ARE advantages of paying Money, but we dont know what EXACTLY you can buy (we know about professionkits, parcels, horses, commercial builings and sieging weapons).

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,023
    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)
    Cellandine

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980
    Kyleran said:
    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)
    You Goon!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,316
    Kyleran said:
    ArChWind said:
    Until this game is actual release material the OP is correct. You can't win if you can't play so why is this thread drawing flies?
    Flies are drawn to crap don't ya know. :p
    :surprised: 

    I guess so. 

  • StopTheSlanderStopTheSlander Member CommonPosts: 2


    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.



    1. kingship takes massive community building, your clearly thinking of short term success if you actually think you can just drop 10k not have a community behind you and be king. Your going to lose that 10k so good luck. I HOPE, you buy king so you can lose it.

    2. It's not a headstart. 80% of the infrastructure is built during this time.....what does that mean? players starting AFTER expo will have better jobs, houses, gear, mats and weapons than you did when you started. Your technically playing catch up in expo. 

    2a. It's not even close to a PvP territory control so just stop already....

    3. IP is used to decide pick order when nobles choose land....they then balance this by giving everyone equal oppourtunity to expand or shrink their domain via KoE.

    4. Items that will decay if not taken care of, get stolen, get destroyed. You can buy 8 siege weapons but when someone torches them because you bought too many then RIP.

    Your uninformed propaganda is strong.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,980






    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.





    1. kingship takes massive community building, your clearly thinking of short term success if you actually think you can just drop 10k not have a community behind you and be king. Your going to lose that 10k so good luck. I HOPE, you buy king so you can lose it.

    2. It's not a headstart. 80% of the infrastructure is built during this time.....what does that mean? players starting AFTER expo will have better jobs, houses, gear, mats and weapons than you did when you started. Your technically playing catch up in expo. 

    2a. It's not even close to a PvP territory control so just stop already....

    3. IP is used to decide pick order when nobles choose land....they then balance this by giving everyone equal oppourtunity to expand or shrink their domain via KoE.

    4. Items that will decay if not taken care of, get stolen, get destroyed. You can buy 8 siege weapons but when someone torches them because you bought too many then RIP.

    Your uninformed propaganda is strong.


    Pretty sure I'm much more informed than you are.  I mean... you are actually arguing that a 3 month no wipe headstart is not an advantage in a PvP game with territory control.

    My points stand. Ill let the readers decide who really is uninformed. 
    Galadourn

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,792
    lol the name of that new account...

    Damn, CoE is so entertaining with all their cultists.
    Galadourn
    Harbinger of Fools
  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,377

    simon155 said:

    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.





    For me it comes back to security. My impression from the KS to now is buying a high level position is incredibly secure. If it isn't then the P2 is less of a problem, bus as is it sounds pretty secure. I say sounds because that it my own interpretation. I have yet to see it cleared up on SS's end. It might be something they can't really define until further into development. /shrug
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,257

    TimEisen said:



    simon155 said:


    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.







    For me it comes back to security. My impression from the KS to now is buying a high level position is incredibly secure. If it isn't then the P2 is less of a problem, bus as is it sounds pretty secure. I say sounds because that it my own interpretation. I have yet to see it cleared up on SS's end. It might be something they can't really define until further into development. /shrug


    Agreed. That has been my impression as well. They have to please two camps. The players that don't like P2W games, and the Kings who spent $10,000.00 to be on top and don't want to lose their money in an instant. I don't see how they can possibly appease both...

    And from what my impression is so far, for a KS King to lose their throne, they will either have to royally screw up somehow (like go out adventuring without an heir and be coup'd de grased 4ish times (outside of the 2hr respawn safety window), or a combined effort of many players, roughly the equivalent of $10k of time/in-game resources, will have to be mustered to try and overthrow the king.

    --------------------------------------------
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934

    Kyleran said:

    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)


    So despite all your trash talking about the game you're going to play it after all. There's a world for that. Hyp.. hypo.. hypocri... something like that. I can't seem to remember it.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934




    TimEisen said:





    simon155 said:



    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.









    For me it comes back to security. My impression from the KS to now is buying a high level position is incredibly secure. If it isn't then the P2 is less of a problem, bus as is it sounds pretty secure. I say sounds because that it my own interpretation. I have yet to see it cleared up on SS's end. It might be something they can't really define until further into development. /shrug




    Agreed. That has been my impression as well. They have to please two camps. The players that don't like P2W games, and the Kings who spent $10,000.00 to be on top and don't want to lose their money in an instant. I don't see how they can possibly appease both...

    And from what my impression is so far, for a KS King to lose their throne, they will either have to royally screw up somehow (like go out adventuring without an heir and be coup'd de grased 4ish times (outside of the 2hr respawn safety window), or a combined effort of many players, roughly the equivalent of $10k of time/in-game resources, will have to be mustered to try and overthrow the king.



    Sounds like EVE.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,377




    TimEisen said:





    simon155 said:



    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.









    For me it comes back to security. My impression from the KS to now is buying a high level position is incredibly secure. If it isn't then the P2 is less of a problem, bus as is it sounds pretty secure. I say sounds because that it my own interpretation. I have yet to see it cleared up on SS's end. It might be something they can't really define until further into development. /shrug




    Agreed. That has been my impression as well. They have to please two camps. The players that don't like P2W games, and the Kings who spent $10,000.00 to be on top and don't want to lose their money in an instant. I don't see how they can possibly appease both...

    And from what my impression is so far, for a KS King to lose their throne, they will either have to royally screw up somehow (like go out adventuring without an heir and be coup'd de grased 4ish times (outside of the 2hr respawn safety window), or a combined effort of many players, roughly the equivalent of $10k of time/in-game resources, will have to be mustered to try and overthrow the king.



    I agree. I get it. I mean, if someone pays 10k, logs in, gets ganked and loses it you probably aren't retaining that whale and we all know whales dictate MMOs these days. They have to make them safe enough, but how safe? I imagine only testing could help them figure that out. 
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,023
    edited May 2017


    Torval said:





    Kyleran said:



    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)






    So despite all your trash talking about the game you're going to play it after all. There's a world for that. Hyp.. hypo.. hypocri... something like that. I can't seem to remember it.



    Not sure I've "trash talked" this game, I've pointed out obvious flaws in either the designs, payment models or people's willful ignorance of the facts. Blind faith is always a great target as well.

    But I am an EVE player and always wondered what playing as a Goon would be like.  If this game launches I'd like to join a group that wants to see the world burn.

    Also I slam games I play as well, CCP gets my wrath at times, equal opportunity for all is my motto.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934

    Kyleran said:




    Torval said:







    Kyleran said:




    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)








    So despite all your trash talking about the game you're going to play it after all. There's a world for that. Hyp.. hypo.. hypocri... something like that. I can't seem to remember it.




    Not sure I've "trash talked" this game, I've pointed out obvious flaws in either the designs, payment models or people's willful ignorance of the facts. Blind faith is always a great target as well.

    But I am an EVE player and always wondered what playing as a Goon would be like.  If this game launches I'd like to join a group that wants to see the world burn.

    Also I slam games I play as well, CCP gets my wrath at times, equal opportunity for all is my motto.

    Hmm, you're not easily provoked today I see.

    I'll let you in on a little secret. Everyone who plays EVE is a goon to the rest of us, you maelstrom of mayhem.

    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,023

    Torval said:



    Kyleran said:






    Torval said:









    Kyleran said:





    I think when this game comes out I'm going to organize a "barbarian horde" with the sole purpose of devastating the realm.

    Hey, goals are good, right? ;)










    So despite all your trash talking about the game you're going to play it after all. There's a world for that. Hyp.. hypo.. hypocri... something like that. I can't seem to remember it.





    Not sure I've "trash talked" this game, I've pointed out obvious flaws in either the designs, payment models or people's willful ignorance of the facts. Blind faith is always a great target as well.

    But I am an EVE player and always wondered what playing as a Goon would be like.  If this game launches I'd like to join a group that wants to see the world burn.

    Also I slam games I play as well, CCP gets my wrath at times, equal opportunity for all is my motto.


    Hmm, you're not easily provoked today I see.

    I'll let you in on a little secret. Everyone who plays EVE is a goon to the rest of us, you maelstrom of mayhem.



    Fair enough. ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    The thing with saying that allowing RMT is pay to win is that it's no worse than allowing a PLEX like system. You pay money, you get an in-game items, you sell it for in-game currency, you use it to accomplish in-game objectives.

    How is a system in which you swap money directly for in-game currency with other players substantially different from this is any way?

    Yet people aren't calling EVE or any of the games that have copied it's system (Which is most of them now) "Pay to Win." It's just proof how illogical and driven by their emotions people are. One person calls out "Pay to Win!" and everyone gets to squawking because everyone else is squawking even if there is nothing to freak out about. 
  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Eldurian said:
    The thing with saying that allowing RMT is pay to win is that it's no worse than allowing a PLEX like system. You pay money, you get an in-game items, you sell it for in-game currency, you use it to accomplish in-game objectives.

    How is a system in which you swap money directly for in-game currency with other players substantially different from this is any way?

    Yet people aren't calling EVE or any of the games that have copied it's system (Which is most of them now) "Pay to Win." It's just proof how illogical and driven by their emotions people are. One person calls out "Pay to Win!" and everyone gets to squawking because everyone else is squawking even if there is nothing to freak out about. 
    It's not really the same. In game currency swapping hands for an item that does not impact other players experience in any way is not the same as providing a direct advantange to the player from the developer for money. In the example you're using, both players benefit, and they could easily come to an agreement to trade in game currency for sub time without the developer facilitating that. The actual item being sold by the developer has no value in an ingame capacity, in that sense it's no different than a player buying a cosmetic item from the cash shop and selling it for in game cash. It's the same thing in practice, would you also consider that p2w? 

    In game currency can change hands for many non gameplay reasons without prompting from developers. I give it to friends/family all the time, I give it away when I quit a game, etc. The actual transactions that provide the benefit to one party are still ultimately occuring between 2 players, so I dont see it in a P2W sense. It's still 2 players exchanging or giving their time spent, that's a shit ton different than OP items being popped into existence out of thin air because someone busted out their credit card. 
    Gdemami
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