How you can equate a guy with zero industry experience and a fresh college grad who are spouting off buzz word after buzz with few concrete details as 'smart' business and 'strong' leadership is a pretty amazing feat of mental gymnastics. You would think a consultant of all people would be able see past the marketing haze.
A lot of dirt is coming out on Reddit.
Edit: The fresh college grad CFO is married to the billionaire MLM creative director who is financing this.
You don't become a self made multi millionare who has enough "Fuck you money" to fund his own dream MMO by the age of 31 by being a dumbass with good luck. No such thing exists. You do that by making smart business decisions and having the drive to self motivate and work hard - in his case over a variety of industries for over 15 years.
To be honest, I don't give a flying fuck how much experienced these people have, what they did before, if they can boil eggs or their CEO are a shady evil genius.
I follow a game I find interesting, will it succeed or will it fail?, dunno, but what I've seen and read and been on discord, yes this one has far better chance than the rest of the KS projects I've seen of late.
The point is, they are trying to make something different, not a classic themepark, and that I think should be in all of us MMORPG players interest, no?
The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings.
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
simple logic dictates both of them know what they're doing - even if you don't personally understand it yourself.
Perhaps his mom helped him out by getting him into the business, just like the President's dad did for him?
Unless his Mom sat by his side every day at the office they both earned it themselves. I've worked in business long enough to see enough privileged kids who can't do the most basic of things, while also seeing people who are smart and hard working get quite far regardless of how much privilege they do or do not have. I've even interviewed someone who we later hired based on a recommendation from their family member who was higher up in the company, albeit working in a different part of it. He wasn't the most stellar of employees and I was not sad to see him go. Connections can get you a job, but they can't make you do it well.
The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings.
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
Is it his company? Not as far as I can tell but I believe both he and his mother are listed as top earners. http://www.mlmfan.com/person/sharon-steven-sharif --------------------------------------------- Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? See below:
False advertising claims[edit]
Pericarp xanthones and potential health effects[edit]
According to a 2006 warning by the US Food and Drug Administration, XanGo's distributors had illegally used marketing materials to promote mangosteen juice claiming more than 20 human health benefits, including "anti-inflammatory," "anti-microbial," "anti-fungal," "anti-viral," "anti-cancer," "anti-ulcer," "anti-hepatotoxic," "anti-rhinoviral," and "anti-allergic" effects.[35] Promotional literature for the product cites antioxidants from the inedible pericarp of the fruit as providing health benefits. None of these claims, however, has scientific proof established by peer-reviewed research and human clinical trials, as discussed below.
The American Cancer Society profile of mangosteen juice states there is no reliable evidence that mangosteen juice, purée, or bark is effective as a cancer treatment in humans.[36] As of April 2013, it also states that the mangosteen "fruit has been shown to be rich in anti-oxidants. Very early laboratory studies suggest it may have promise as a topical treatment for acne. Early small laboratory and animal studies suggest that further research should be done to determine whether it can help to prevent cancer in humans." [37]
U.S. FDA warning[edit]
On September 20, 2006, the United States Food and Drug Administration issued a Warning Letter to Xango LLC International in response to the company's promotion of Xango Juice as an aid to treat and/or cure various diseases.[46] The agency's letter warned that Xango Juice had not been properly tested for safety and efficacy, and as a proposed new drug, it could not be legally sold in the U.S. without prior approval of the FDA. Xango was warned that it could face enforcement action including seizure and/or injunction of products or suspension of business. Under FDA drug labeling rules, Xango, as manufacturer, is responsible for satisfying scientific criteria to make health claims on its product labels and all marketing materials. As of September 2008, the case remained open.
Effectiveness[edit]
The Mayo Clinic said in October 2005 that "there are no published clinical trials showing evidence that either the fruit or its juice – marketed under the name Xango Juice – is an effective treatment for arthritis, cancer or any other disorder in humans."[47] In 2011 the Mayo Clinic reiterated that "it is still too early to say for sure what role mangosteen juice has in treating arthritis symptoms."[41]
In February 2006, the U.C. Berkeley Wellness Newsletter, sponsored by the University of California at Berkeley, said that "Mangosteen marketers make farfetched and unsubstantiated claims for their products." The newsletter notes that "there are no clinical trials, and what happens in a test tube or animal may not occur in a human. Any reported benefits in humans have been anecdotal. No one even knows if the processed fruit juice and capsules retain the potentially beneficial compounds. What’s more, the juice is typically a mix of fruit juices – with an undisclosed amount of mangosteen in it." [48]
Ralph Moss, an alternative cancer treatment advocate,[49] has said of mangosteen juice:
In my opinion, what we have here is simply an overpriced fruit drink. Fruit drinks are often healthful beverages. But the only reason I can see that the promoters of mangosteen can get away with charging $37 for this product is that they are playing on patients' hopes and fears in a cynical way. Without the health claims, open or implied, the product could only be sold for at most $5 or $6 (which, for example, is the cost of antioxidant-rich pomegranate juice).[50]
A 2008 medical case report described a patient with severe acidosis possibly attributable to a year of daily use (to lose weight, dose not described) of mangosteen juice (brand not described) infused with xanthonoids,[51] as occurs in the manufacture of XanGo juice. The authors proposed that chronic exposure to alpha-mangostin, a xanthone, could be toxic to mitochondrial function,[52] leading to impairment of cellular respiration and production of lactic acidosis.
Italian anti-trust action[edit]
In 2011 Italy's anti-trust and consumer protection authority, the AGCM, suspended the activities of Xango in response to over-broad health claims, as well as possible violations of pyramid scheme laws.[53]
Litigation[edit]
Tahitian Noni International[edit]
Tahitian Noni International (TNI), a rival MLM beverage company, sued Xango, LLC, and several of its top executives in February 2003 in the 4th District Court in Provo, Utah, alleging that Xango executives stole TNI's concept for a mangosteen-based supplement while they were employed by TNI's parent-company. After a countersuit against TNI was launched by Xango, LLC, the two parties settled out of court. A joint statement by TNI and Xango said that they had "agreed to resolve their disputes and the litigation between them and their founders" but the particulars of the settlement were not disclosed.[54]
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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In 2009 The State of Utah's Supreme Court gave the green light to a XanGo investor to proceed with a suit that alleges corporate looting and mismanagement of millions of dollars by the Lehi supplements company's founders for their personal expenses including luxury cars and performance-enhancing medical treatments. In a 5-0 decision issued the Utah Supreme Court overturned a 4th District Court ruling that dismissed a lawsuit filed in 2007 by Angel Investors LLC alleging XanGo's founders took millions of dollars in personal loans from the company and paid themselves excessive salaries while wasting corporate assets.[55] In 2010 XanGo settled with Angel Investors for an undisclosed amount of money. "Angel Investors, who had owned no more than 1 percent of the Lehi company, had charged in three lawsuits in Utah County that the founders deprived them of some of the return on their investment. The group cited such expenditures as $6,000 monthly auto allowances, family vacations and, in one case, $20,000 worth of home furnishings." The terms of the settlement were not disclosed.[56]
In 2013 XanGo Founder Bryan Davis filed a lawsuit accusing his partners of spying, threatening employees, falsifying distributor positions to siphon off funds, defrauding on XanGo taxes and their personal taxes, falsifying records, changing credit card statements, charging as business expenses to purchase grand pianos, vacations, home renovations, landscaping, electronics, expensive bicycles, scooters, and for CEO Aaron Garrity, an open expense account for one mistress.
According to the lawsuit, Garrity embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets from the company, writing off clothing, medical enhancements, jewelry, event tickets, bicycles, electronics and chartered planes and vacations as business expenses. CFO Nate Brown set up secret founder accounts for Garrity and others to allow them to improperly spend XanGo assets.
Davis also alleges in the lawsuit that Garrity’s assistant, Andrea Waterfall, with whom he was in a relationship, had a company credit card that she used for personal expenses, and that Garrity sent in fraudulent expense reports.
Other allegations include Garrity using power and influence as a founder to threaten XanGo employees into turning a blind eye to his theft and instituting what he termed a “culture of giving” at XanGo meaning that founders and employees Garrity determined were in his good graces could unlimitedly use XanGo assets for their personal benefit.
The lawsuit further reports founders are alleged to have used XanGo employment and forced qualified distributor positions to siphon XanGo assets to family members and friends.
Davis alleges the founders conspired to give themselves illicit distributions through a tax fraud scheme and that the founders also formed various competing companies with XanGo assets. He is also claiming that the founders took steps to freeze him out of the company — ignoring Davis’ objections to wrongful conduct, falsifying board minutes to reflect unanimous consent to actions to which he had voiced objections, XanGo employees were told not to talk to Davis under penalty of termination, that founders also falsely claimed to XanGo employees that he had resigned his position at XanGo and disparaged him. As a result, Davis said XanGo withheld bonus/distribution payments to Davis as well as discontinuing employee benefits.
The lawsuit further states that Garrity has also misused XanGo’s security department to retaliate against Davis, Angel, leaders and founders of competing MLMs and XanGo distributors and employee, according to the suit; Garrity allegedly asked Justin Barrett to use his access to law enforcement databases to find information on these individuals that was not on public record, which information Garrity could then use to his advantage. He also requested that the XanGo Security Department obtain non-traceable wireless accounts for him for the purpose of online corporate intelligence gathering, dissemination of information and posting defamatory comments about competitors, distributors, employees and others. A bogus account was illegally created under the fictitious name “John Gable.”
The XanGo board’s attorney said the accusations are fabricated because Davis is attempting to extract an inflated buyout from them for his shares in the company. Benevento said several months ago, the XanGo board offered Davis a separation agreement due to his ongoing failure to fulfill his responsibilities and that Davis has failed to show up for work yet still expects a regular paycheck.
Garrity’s attorney refuted the claim, saying the allegations are to help Davis inflate his share holdings for a greater profit.[57]
Also in 2013 XanGo filed an action against Bryan Davis in the Third Judicial District Court (Utah and Salt Lake City) refuting Mr Davis claims in his lawsuit and claiming that Mr Davis was negligent in his duties.[58]
Taxation issues[edit]
In 2012 XanGo had issues concerning taxes. "At the top of 2012 tax delinquency lists was $347,816 owed for the Lehi headquarters of Xango, a multilevel marketing company that sells nutritional supplements — which has its name on the uniforms of Real Salt Lake soccer players. That property is owned by Thai Properties, which is part of the same corporate group as Xango, said Nate Brown, chief financial officer for Xango".[59]
----------------
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What role did he play in that company? Not sure but here is one complaint that names him:
A 24th of Oct, 2015 by Jecv 0 Votes
My young son came home as a gal who knew him through school asked to talk to him about Zango. When he met her there was a guy there that showed him his nice car and watches. He came home and told me about this new opportunity and he was going to a meeting that week. When he came home from the meeting he was talking about how he could make a lot of money by selling a drink and was so excited as they were going to give him the whole area to sign up his friends. His sponsor, the little 20 yr. old girl that signed him up was going to take on the big city north. I quickly googled drink scams and Bingo, I showed him what people had been told and how they get young college kids sign up by getting them to these meetings and taking their money right away for some kit. Asked him about this drink that he knew nothing about, but said he could make $2, 000 a week and get a much better car. That they really liked him and giving him a large sales territory, his home town with all his friends to sign up. Wow what young teenage boy would t take that deal. I called the bank as he was still on his high school checking account and the ZANGO transaction had not shown as going though yet. Chase saidI had to call the company as he paid with his ATM . I called Zango and they said, his kit already shipped (before money had shown taken out of account). I told them we would t be accepting the package and it would go back to them. It took another phone call from my son, a couple weeks later to follow up on but we did get the $101.41 back in his account. Today he received a welcome letter, and 3 sponsors names. Names are listed after their title- Your Sponsor, Your Sponsor s Sponsor and then the Upline Sponsor whose name is Steven J Sharif. What a pyramid scheme they have going! This company needs to be shut down!!!
---------------------------
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell? Quite possibly... does she resemble a Stepford Wife?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I personally do not feel it matters one way or another if they have ever done anything because MOST of what i have seen in the industry i see as half assed to not liking it at all.
I also can see what i am looking at quite clearly so i recognize almost immediately if something looks promising or just a marketing ploy.
MOST of what this site deploys onto users is marketing either in your face or disguised marketing.
So if a user introduced us to this game,we might take a better look at it but the little i have seen already tells me it will not be a triple A game,so why would i want to play it?Because it might carry some FREE to play tag,pfft not even a remotely good reason to waste my time playing a game i won't play past day 1.
Now if i at least see a glimmer of hope that the game might be decent with the ability to improve,i might stick around but the core basic world map design is just a complete fail and tells me what to really expect from this developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
Is it his company? Not as far as I can tell but I believe both he and his mother are listed as top earners. --------------------------------------------- Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? See below:
While informative on XanGo, it really doesn't say much about his role in that. While an ugly practice, false claims in our food stuffs is quite common, be it false health benefits or make up of ingredients. Even well known companies get in trouble for that far to often. I was looking more for something that speaks to his own guilt of wrong doing. I don't hold a MCy"ds employee accountable when they get slammed by the FDA for their Beefs make up, nor any other fast food or food processing plant's employee. That's just people doing what they gotta do to earn their pay.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
Is it his company? Not as far as I can tell but I believe both he and his mother are listed as top earners. --------------------------------------------- Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? See below:
While informative on XanGo, it really doesn't say much about his role in that. While an ugly practice, false claims in our food stuffs is quite common, be it false health benefits or make up of ingredients. Even well known companies get in trouble for that far to often. I was looking more for something that speaks to his own guilt of wrong doing. I don't hold a MCy"ds employee accountable when they get slammed by the FDA for their Beefs make up, nor any other fast food or food processing plant's employee. That's just people doing what they gotta do to earn their pay.
Thus go back to my original statement above: "The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
Is it his company? Not as far as I can tell but I believe both he and his mother are listed as top earners. --------------------------------------------- Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? See below:
While informative on XanGo, it really doesn't say much about his role in that. While an ugly practice, false claims in our food stuffs is quite common, be it false health benefits or make up of ingredients. Even well known companies get in trouble for that far to often. I was looking more for something that speaks to his own guilt of wrong doing. I don't hold a MCy"ds employee accountable when they get slammed by the FDA for their Beefs make up, nor any other fast food or food processing plant's employee. That's just people doing what they gotta do to earn their pay.
Thus go back to my original statement above: "The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thus go back to my original statement above: "The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings."
That's understandable, I was just trying to say how he made his millions, isn't really important if he had no hand in the wrong doing of his past employer(s). He could have just been lucky enough to get into something when the getting into was good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Yes, they were in fact, bleeding money as SOE, and that is why a large portion of that studio split and became Daybreak. This, in my opinion, was the result of too much management and not enough creative freedom. Again, just my opinion. Well, I also feel that Smedly is a terrible leader in every way, I would not put him in charge of melting ice in death valley for fear her would screw it up. But this is all just my opinion, not based on anything but what I have read/seen from him.
That is a complete rewrite of history. Sony sold the entirety of SOE to Columbus Nova. There was no split, Columbus Nova renamed SOE Daybreak Games after the purchase.
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Yes, they were in fact, bleeding money as SOE, and that is why a large portion of that studio split and became Daybreak. This, in my opinion, was the result of too much management and not enough creative freedom. Again, just my opinion. Well, I also feel that Smedly is a terrible leader in every way, I would not put him in charge of melting ice in death valley for fear her would screw it up. But this is all just my opinion, not based on anything but what I have read/seen from him.
From everything I've read, both publicly and anonymous comments on Glassdoor, it seems to me that SOE's problem was the exact opposite. It was too much creative freedom and not enough sensible business minds around to reign them in. Dreaming in the clouds of all these cool ideas without thinking if it was possible or how to realistically make it happen. That, and apparently terrible management, training, and hiring of employees, no standard practices for how things should be done, and lots of other really basic "Here's how you run a business of any kind" failures. Seriously if the comments are still there go read the Glassdoor page, and sign up for a temporary account so you can get past the first page of comments.
SOE was a mess and failed to put out anything good besides maybe H1Z1 (still EA).
A few of them + a MLM sugar daddy is going to redefine MMOs? Just like Landmark right?
Its also come to light that most of the UE4 assets in their video are not original but from the store. There is also zero in game footage of the 'nodes' system which is supposedly the core feature of the game.
SOE was a mess and failed to put out anything good besides maybe H1Z1 (still EA).
A few of them + a MLM sugar daddy is going to redefine MMOs? Just like Landmark right?
Its also come to light that most of the UE4 assets in their video are not original but from the store. There is also zero in game footage of the 'nodes' system which is supposedly the core feature of the game.
Just to note, H1Z1 was created by a team of like 10 people. It was essentially created as a skunkworks project. Also, to address your question regarding team size. CU started with a team of like 10. Pantheon has a small team. inXile has a small team.
Historically speaking, smaller teams are EXTREMELY effective and often accomplish things more quickly and more effectively than larger teams. The larger your team the less productive, overall, each individual unit (or member) is. Larger teams provide diminishing returns to your software project because it increases complexity, communication breakdowns are more common, creating loopbacks, etc. In general, smaller teams are more efficient and effective. Do some research on some of the most productive software teams and they are generally smaller teams. Plus, it's cool research.
As far as redefining MMOs? I don't know why you would take this sort of statement literally, yet when the person tells you it's not an MLM, you don't believe them. You are simply cherry-picking what you choose to focus on. I don't think there is much redefining left to do, but it does seem like every project out there right now is aiming to do so. We can only hope that their aspirations actually come to fruition. After all, the genre could use some innovation, or so I've heard.
Using pre-fab assets isn't surprising. They actually mention in this Q&A that they have 1 animator. Today we have an embarrassment of riches because engines are free, and those engines have stores where we can buy assets that reduce the cost and time to create a game dramatically. It can take upwards of a month to put a new character into the game. So, when you do the math, that cost adds up quickly if you are trying to re-invent the wheel. So, yeah, I'd expect to see bought assets from a small team these days. Why re-animate humans again? right?
There are a couple videos on the node system. Nothing really in-game, but it illustrates the concept and it has in-engine examples. The first is mostly just an overview and the second shows more in-engine stuff.
The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings.
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
MLM in a nutshell:
Coincidentally, a common thread I'm seeing regarding these MLM corporations (assuming they are legitimate) that get into trouble is... not pricing, but rather false advertising. For me the takeaway is that if you make a claim or guarantee about your product or organization, you had better be able to back it up.
This is true of all business, however.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Yes, they were in fact, bleeding money as SOE, and that is why a large portion of that studio split and became Daybreak. This, in my opinion, was the result of too much management and not enough creative freedom. Again, just my opinion. Well, I also feel that Smedly is a terrible leader in every way, I would not put him in charge of melting ice in death valley for fear her would screw it up. But this is all just my opinion, not based on anything but what I have read/seen from him.
That is a complete rewrite of history. Sony sold the entirety of SOE to Columbus Nova. There was no split, Columbus Nova renamed SOE Daybreak Games after the purchase.
Ok...not a complete re-write, I left out some minutiae which were completely irrelevant to the point I was making. You got me, well done. However, my points (and opinions) still stand.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Their team seems completely competent and able to make a game.
This is another misconception.
SOE had been a terrible company that was bleeding money for quite a while which is why it crashed and burned.
You can blame Smedley or management but I wouldnt look to the people behind EQnext, Landmark and Planetside 2 for the next under 2 year low budget game that will revolutionize the genre.
Yes, they were in fact, bleeding money as SOE, and that is why a large portion of that studio split and became Daybreak. This, in my opinion, was the result of too much management and not enough creative freedom. Again, just my opinion. Well, I also feel that Smedly is a terrible leader in every way, I would not put him in charge of melting ice in death valley for fear her would screw it up. But this is all just my opinion, not based on anything but what I have read/seen from him.
From everything I've read, both publicly and anonymous comments on Glassdoor, it seems to me that SOE's problem was the exact opposite. It was too much creative freedom and not enough sensible business minds around to reign them in. Dreaming in the clouds of all these cool ideas without thinking if it was possible or how to realistically make it happen. That, and apparently terrible management, training, and hiring of employees, no standard practices for how things should be done, and lots of other really basic "Here's how you run a business of any kind" failures. Seriously if the comments are still there go read the Glassdoor page, and sign up for a temporary account so you can get past the first page of comments.
First of all, Thank you for correcting me, I took your advice and went and read the comments you referenced.
It does seem like they are suffering from a distinct lack of leadership. And really, a driving force. They need a leader in there (again, based on comments) that can organize people, set realistic expectations, and enforce follow through.
They are hiring for a number of positions (as is SOE which is hilarious to me) and I do not see one for any type fo leadership. Yes they are hiring some managers (and if you think managing and leading are the same, please do not comment) but what they honestly need is a GM that can task identify, ask hard questions and then hold people accountable when they do not produce on a set timeline. S/he would also need to do some development of teams, that seems to be a big deal (comments) and communications. It is hard for me to fathom how a game company can't get communications sorted out...on second thought no it's not hard at all.
Seriously, an MBA, or even a bachelor's with Olead or Business admin would do them wonders. In my opinion and again, based solely on comments that are being made in that forum.
Thank you again @Leiloni I do enjoy a good discussion, even if I start out ill-informed
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
SOE was a mess and failed to put out anything good besides maybe H1Z1 (still EA).
A few of them + a MLM sugar daddy is going to redefine MMOs? Just like Landmark right?
Its also come to light that most of the UE4 assets in their video are not original but from the store. There is also zero in game footage of the 'nodes' system which is supposedly the core feature of the game.
Planetside 1 and 2 (2 was out well before the SOE/Daybreak (or since I am being sniped for useless points the Columbus Nova/SIE World Wide Studios/Daybreak split) split) Everquest and EQ 2 DC Universe online Star Wars Galaxies PayDay
Just some of the more popular games created by SOE, prior to recent events that can be argued were quite good games.
SWG may be considered a bad game, due to bugs etc, but I really enjoyed that game more so than any other so you can consider that an opinion, the rest stand on their own merits.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
istorically speaking, smaller teams are EXTREMELY effective and often accomplish things more quickly and more effectively than larger teams. The larger your team the less productive, overall, each individual unit (or member) is. Larger teams provide diminishing returns to your software project because it increases complexity, communication breakdowns are more common, creating loopbacks, etc. In general, smaller teams are more efficient and effective. Do some research on some of the most productive software teams and they are generally smaller teams. Plus, it's cool research.
As far as redefining MMOs? I don't know why you would take this sort of statement literally, yet when the person tells you it's not an MLM, you don't believe them. You are simply cherry-picking what you choose to focus on. I don't think there is much redefining left to do, but it does seem like every project out there right now is aiming to do so. We can only hope that their aspirations actually come to fruition. After all, the genre could use some innovation, or so I've heard.
The CU comparison is nowhere near the same and I don't know why you constantly bring it up. Marc Jacobs successfully released 2 major MMORPGs and City State Games had made a mobile game before CU. A developers history also counts, not just what is in the KS itself.
MLM guru Steven Sharif has no IT management experience and has only successfully delivered a wordpress website and a video showcasing a few minutes UE4 store assets with next to no gameplay. If he had anything else to show I would also take that into account. I guess you can point to SOE games, but none of the recent ones were successful MMOs and we do not know how involved the 1 dev and 2 designers were.
I do not believe Ashes itself is MLM, but the KS marketing tactics are similar - take a bad or average product and make it look like gold in order to mislead and take advantage of people.
KS has taken a reputation hit in recent years due to scams and now we have a genuine scammer making an MMO and people are throwing money at him. I wouldn't care if he wasn't going to the public for money. Generally, you don't ask for donations on your very first project in any industry.
You keep linking peripherally related google articles about broad industry trends. Finding an article that says small teams can be effective does not mean Intrepid will be effective.
Comments
Or... you convince lots of people to pay you lots of money for mangosteen juice!
https://shop.xango.com/#/Products/Juice
The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The nepotism continues by making his recent liberal arts grad boytoy er... husband the CFO.
I follow a game I find interesting, will it succeed or will it fail?, dunno, but what I've seen and read and been on discord, yes this one has far better chance than the rest of the KS projects I've seen of late.
The point is, they are trying to make something different, not a classic themepark, and that I think should be in all of us MMORPG players interest, no?
If they can get people to spend that much on a couple bottles of juice, more power to them. Secondly I really don't see how that relates to this game? Is it his company? Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? What role did he play in that company?
Should I kick the crap out of that avon lady because she's a spawn of hell?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If she starts asking you to donate to her amazing new MMO then maybe.
Unless his Mom sat by his side every day at the office they both earned it themselves. I've worked in business long enough to see enough privileged kids who can't do the most basic of things, while also seeing people who are smart and hard working get quite far regardless of how much privilege they do or do not have. I've even interviewed someone who we later hired based on a recommendation from their family member who was higher up in the company, albeit working in a different part of it. He wasn't the most stellar of employees and I was not sad to see him go. Connections can get you a job, but they can't make you do it well.
#132 on the list of of 2014
http://networkmarketingandmuslims.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/10885605/businessforhome.org-top_250_life_time_earners_in_mlm.pdf
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Have they been sued? Have they been found guilty of illegal deeds? See below:
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I also can see what i am looking at quite clearly so i recognize almost immediately if something looks promising or just a marketing ploy.
MOST of what this site deploys onto users is marketing either in your face or disguised marketing.
So if a user introduced us to this game,we might take a better look at it but the little i have seen already tells me it will not be a triple A game,so why would i want to play it?Because it might carry some FREE to play tag,pfft not even a remotely good reason to waste my time playing a game i won't play past day 1.
Now if i at least see a glimmer of hope that the game might be decent with the ability to improve,i might stick around but the core basic world map design is just a complete fail and tells me what to really expect from this developer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
While informative on XanGo, it really doesn't say much about his role in that. While an ugly practice, false claims in our food stuffs is quite common, be it false health benefits or make up of ingredients. Even well known companies get in trouble for that far to often. I was looking more for something that speaks to his own guilt of wrong doing. I don't hold a MCy"ds employee accountable when they get slammed by the FDA for their Beefs make up, nor any other fast food or food processing plant's employee. That's just people doing what they gotta do to earn their pay.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Thus go back to my original statement above:
"The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Thus go back to my original statement above:
"The question to me... is Ashes of Creation his new Mangosteen Juice? Or is it something more? I honestly don't know and have very mixed feelings."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
That's understandable, I was just trying to say how he made his millions, isn't really important if he had no hand in the wrong doing of his past employer(s). He could have just been lucky enough to get into something when the getting into was good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is a complete rewrite of history. Sony sold the entirety of SOE to Columbus Nova. There was no split, Columbus Nova renamed SOE Daybreak Games after the purchase.
From everything I've read, both publicly and anonymous comments on Glassdoor, it seems to me that SOE's problem was the exact opposite. It was too much creative freedom and not enough sensible business minds around to reign them in. Dreaming in the clouds of all these cool ideas without thinking if it was possible or how to realistically make it happen. That, and apparently terrible management, training, and hiring of employees, no standard practices for how things should be done, and lots of other really basic "Here's how you run a business of any kind" failures. Seriously if the comments are still there go read the Glassdoor page, and sign up for a temporary account so you can get past the first page of comments.
A few of them + a MLM sugar daddy is going to redefine MMOs? Just like Landmark right?
Its also come to light that most of the UE4 assets in their video are not original but from the store. There is also zero in game footage of the 'nodes' system which is supposedly the core feature of the game.
@Distopia
Deep.
Just to note, H1Z1 was created by a team of like 10 people. It was essentially created as a skunkworks project. Also, to address your question regarding team size. CU started with a team of like 10. Pantheon has a small team. inXile has a small team.
Historically speaking, smaller teams are EXTREMELY effective and often accomplish things more quickly and more effectively than larger teams. The larger your team the less productive, overall, each individual unit (or member) is. Larger teams provide diminishing returns to your software project because it increases complexity, communication breakdowns are more common, creating loopbacks, etc. In general, smaller teams are more efficient and effective. Do some research on some of the most productive software teams and they are generally smaller teams. Plus, it's cool research.
As far as redefining MMOs? I don't know why you would take this sort of statement literally, yet when the person tells you it's not an MLM, you don't believe them. You are simply cherry-picking what you choose to focus on. I don't think there is much redefining left to do, but it does seem like every project out there right now is aiming to do so. We can only hope that their aspirations actually come to fruition. After all, the genre could use some innovation, or so I've heard.
Using pre-fab assets isn't surprising. They actually mention in this Q&A that they have 1 animator. Today we have an embarrassment of riches because engines are free, and those engines have stores where we can buy assets that reduce the cost and time to create a game dramatically. It can take upwards of a month to put a new character into the game. So, when you do the math, that cost adds up quickly if you are trying to re-invent the wheel. So, yeah, I'd expect to see bought assets from a small team these days. Why re-animate humans again? right?
There are a couple videos on the node system. Nothing really in-game, but it illustrates the concept and it has in-engine examples. The first is mostly just an overview and the second shows more in-engine stuff.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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MLM in a nutshell:
Coincidentally, a common thread I'm seeing regarding these MLM corporations (assuming they are legitimate) that get into trouble is... not pricing, but rather false advertising. For me the takeaway is that if you make a claim or guarantee about your product or organization, you had better be able to back it up.
This is true of all business, however.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It does seem like they are suffering from a distinct lack of leadership. And really, a driving force. They need a leader in there (again, based on comments) that can organize people, set realistic expectations, and enforce follow through.
They are hiring for a number of positions (as is SOE which is hilarious to me) and I do not see one for any type fo leadership. Yes they are hiring some managers (and if you think managing and leading are the same, please do not comment) but what they honestly need is a GM that can task identify, ask hard questions and then hold people accountable when they do not produce on a set timeline. S/he would also need to do some development of teams, that seems to be a big deal (comments) and communications. It is hard for me to fathom how a game company can't get communications sorted out...on second thought no it's not hard at all.
Seriously, an MBA, or even a bachelor's with Olead or Business admin would do them wonders. In my opinion and again, based solely on comments that are being made in that forum.
Thank you again @Leiloni I do enjoy a good discussion, even if I start out ill-informed
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Everquest and EQ 2
DC Universe online
Star Wars Galaxies
PayDay
Just some of the more popular games created by SOE, prior to recent events that can be argued were quite good games.
SWG may be considered a bad game, due to bugs etc, but I really enjoyed that game more so than any other so you can consider that an opinion, the rest stand on their own merits.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The CU comparison is nowhere near the same and I don't know why you constantly bring it up. Marc Jacobs successfully released 2 major MMORPGs and City State Games had made a mobile game before CU. A developers history also counts, not just what is in the KS itself.
MLM guru Steven Sharif has no IT management experience and has only successfully delivered a wordpress website and a video showcasing a few minutes UE4 store assets with next to no gameplay. If he had anything else to show I would also take that into account. I guess you can point to SOE games, but none of the recent ones were successful MMOs and we do not know how involved the 1 dev and 2 designers were.
I do not believe Ashes itself is MLM, but the KS marketing tactics are similar - take a bad or average product and make it look like gold in order to mislead and take advantage of people.
KS has taken a reputation hit in recent years due to scams and now we have a genuine scammer making an MMO and people are throwing money at him. I wouldn't care if he wasn't going to the public for money. Generally, you don't ask for donations on your very first project in any industry.
You keep linking peripherally related google articles about broad industry trends. Finding an article that says small teams can be effective does not mean Intrepid will be effective.