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Why Do You Hate for Your Character to Be Killed By Another Player Character?

cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992
edited May 2017 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Or why do you dislike it?

Nevermind.  I don't care anymore.


See also:
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/388587/please-tell-me-why-you-hate-pvp-so-much-i-just-dont-understand/p1 by bcbully

Post edited by cantankerousmage on
«13456712

Comments

  • NoxeronNoxeron Member UncommonPosts: 64
    edited May 2017
    Because I am the hero of my own story.
    I don't want to be ganked by someone five times my level as that would take me out of the experience of the game.
    But of course, it heavily depends on what kind of game it is and how their pvp is implemented.

    Edit: I see you have added to your question.
    I would hate it if mobs could loot my corpse,
    I quite like most kinds of level or gear progression,
    I don't know any game where you can become god,
    and "usually" won't help when, if it's possible to do, everyone is going to snipe with arrows or cast deadly spells from long distance or sneak up and backstab you.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,540
    I have enough trouble and am critical enough of myself with my own mistakes. I don't need or want more people piling other things on top of them.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • maxlancemaxlance Member UncommonPosts: 35
    There's no thrill if you can't get killed. :D
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    It's not that I just don't want my character killed by another player character per se..  It's that dying to an enemy character implies I lost, which I cannot abide willingly.  So I resist.

    image
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    Noxeron said:

    Because I am the hero of my own story.
    I don't want to be ganked by someone five times my level as that would take me out of the experience of the game.
    But of course, it heavily depends on what kind of game it is and how their pvp is implemented.

    Edit: I see you have added to your question.
    I would hate it if mobs could loot my corpse,
    I quite like most kinds of level or gear progression,
    I don't know any game where you can become god,
    and "usually" won't help when, if it's possible to do, everyone is going to snipe with arrows or cast deadly spells from long distance or sneak up and backstab you.


    But actually you aren't the hero of your own story.  Not in any themepark mmorpg I know.  You experience the same general story as everyone else.  Or you experience the same general story as everyone in your race or alignment in the case of games such World of Warcraft and Everquest 2.

    Also, what real glory is there in being a hero if every other player is a hero?  I don't see games with generic questlines (in a closed narrative) that hand out money and gear for doing quests as rpgs.  I see them as soldier/mercenary simulators.

    Why do you like level and gear progression?

    You can't actually become a god living in some heaven or astral plane, but you can certainly become a god in comparison to lower level, less well-equipped player-characters.  Isn't a max level character in WoW a god in comparison to the ant that is a level one noob?

    And no.  Not everyone's character will be able to shoot arrows or use magic or use rogue skills.  And not every character will be able to do things as well as another character.

    What if magic is rare and it's very difficult to become a wizard?  What if you can only potentially master one or two skills or abilities?  What if you need to be a genius or a prodigy (very high intelligence) to even hope to master more than that?  And what if the skills and abilities you can even be potentially somewhat good, adequate, indifferent, poor, or terrible with are also limited to varying degrees?
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,749

    maxlance said:

    There's no thrill if you can't get killed. :D


    Thrill? and yet PVP in MMO's is often determined by levels and gear, dying from such an outcome is hardly thrilling, though if you were dying while challenging a dungeon, or exploring a new area, yeah, i can see how that can have a certain 'thrill' to it, but that is more likely to be experienced playing MMO's alongside others, not against. :o
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992


    I have enough trouble and am critical enough of myself with my own mistakes. I don't need or want more people piling other things on top of them.


    What if there are no tells in the game and they can't even communicate with you if you're dead?  What if there is no world or zone chat to brag in?
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    maxlance said:

    There's no thrill if you can't get killed. :D


    Life is a risk we take everyday.  Life is a deadly game.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,540






    I have enough trouble and am critical enough of myself with my own mistakes. I don't need or want more people piling other things on top of them.




    What if there are no tells in the game and they can't even communicate with you if you're dead?  What if there is no world or zone chat to brag in?


    What if? Everything I stated still applies. I'm critical enough on myself for mistakes. I don't need more.


    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992


    It's not that I just don't want my character killed by another player character per se..  It's that dying to an enemy character implies I lost, which I cannot abide willingly.  So I resist.


    But games are usually all about winning or losing in a competition of some sorts.  Card games, Monopoly, LIfe, Risk, Axis and Allies, etc.
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    Phry said:



    maxlance said:


    There's no thrill if you can't get killed. :D




    Thrill? and yet PVP in MMO's is often determined by levels and gear, dying from such an outcome is hardly thrilling, though if you were dying while challenging a dungeon, or exploring a new area, yeah, i can see how that can have a certain 'thrill' to it, but that is more likely to be experienced playing MMO's alongside others, not against. :o


    That's why I want to get rid of level and gear progression.
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992












    I have enough trouble and am critical enough of myself with my own mistakes. I don't need or want more people piling other things on top of them.






    What if there are no tells in the game and they can't even communicate with you if you're dead?  What if there is no world or zone chat to brag in?




    What if? Everything I stated still applies. I'm critical enough on myself for mistakes. I don't need more.




    Well, if you never want to compete with anyone for anything in a game, I can understand that.  It's not fun to play with sore losers usually.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,540
    Hmm no. No one said anything about not wanting to compete. This is not an all or nothing statement or theme. There is a lot of competition that doesn't involve killing someone or being killed.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,540
    Friendly competition's are some of the best fun in an MMO.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082








    Well, if you never want to compete with anyone for anything in a game, I can understand that.  It's not fun to play with sore losers usually.


    Why must people that do not like PVP explain themselves to people?

    It is a preference, the same as you have for the PVP. The same as some have for Tab target, or action or first person.

    If a person likes PVE, let them. All your questions or what if's will not change their preference.  It will not suddenly make them go, aha now i get it, let's go fight.




  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,641
    edited May 2017
    Choo, Choo!  Train arriving early.
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992
    edited May 2017
    @VengeSunsoar - You don't ever have to play the kind of MMORPG I want to make or see made.  I certainly can't please everyone.  No one can.  And shouldn't hope to try.  But if the game I'm thinking of is ever made, and you choose to play it, you will have a decent chance to kill my character within a few days to a few weeks, even if I've been playing the game for months or years.
  • NoxeronNoxeron Member UncommonPosts: 64




    Noxeron said:


    Because I am the hero of my own story.
    I don't want to be ganked by someone five times my level as that would take me out of the experience of the game.
    But of course, it heavily depends on what kind of game it is and how their pvp is implemented.

    Edit: I see you have added to your question.
    I would hate it if mobs could loot my corpse,
    I quite like most kinds of level or gear progression,
    I don't know any game where you can become god,
    and "usually" won't help when, if it's possible to do, everyone is going to snipe with arrows or cast deadly spells from long distance or sneak up and backstab you.




    But actually you aren't the hero of your own story.  Not in any themepark mmorpg I know.  You experience the same general story as everyone else.  Or you experience the same general story as everyone in your race or alignment in the case of games such World of Warcraft and Everquest 2.

    Also, what real glory is there in being a hero if every other player is a hero?  I don't see games with generic questlines (in a closed narrative) that hand out money and gear for doing quests as rpgs.  I see them as soldier/mercenary simulators.

    Why do you like level and gear progression?

    You can't actually become a god living in some heaven or astral plane, but you can certainly become a god in comparison to lower level, less well-equipped player-characters.  Isn't a max level character in WoW a god in comparison to the ant that is a level one noob?

    And no.  Not everyone's character will be able to shoot arrows or use magic or use rogue skills.  And not every character will be able to do things as well as another character.

    What if magic is rare and it's very difficult to become a wizard?  What if you can only potentially master one or two skills or abilities?  What if you need to be a genius or a prodigy (very high intelligence) to even hope to master more than that?  And what if the skills and abilities you can even be potentially somewhat good, adequate, indifferent, poor, or terrible with are also limited to varying degrees?


    In my current MMO, FF14, you are the "Hero of light" while other players are just other adventurers with the "echo". Within their story I feel pretty much like a hero.

    Themepark games usually have a story of some kind to make your character special.

    Because I get a feeling of progression, I can notice when I get better and it feels good.

    But when you actually fight gods in these games you understand that you are not one of them.

    If that's the way to kill people in one shot they will.

    If magic is rare than they'll just use a bow.
    Or follow a guide on how to get magic on the internet.
    If a guide wouldn't help (say, random generated quests), then the game is unfair and I can't see people playing that kind of game for long.

    No one would want to play a MMO where you can't feel powerful, and if they can find a way to feel powerful (aka, one shot kills in a open pvp game) they will 99% of the time do just that.

    There is no reason to ever pick up a shield (in pvp) if you can just shoot one arrow/cast one spell/backstab once to get the kill.
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    DarLorkar said:














    Well, if you never want to compete with anyone for anything in a game, I can understand that.  It's not fun to play with sore losers usually.




    Why must people that do not like PVP explain themselves to people?

    It is a preference, the same as you have for the PVP. The same as some have for Tab target, or action or first person.

    If a person likes PVE, let them. All your questions or what if's will not change their preference.  It will not suddenly make them go, aha now i get it, let's go fight.






    No one has to do anything.  Except for maybe die eventually and pay taxes in most countries.  I didn't say anyone had or has to answer my questions or reply to anything I post on this forum.  Even if I did say that, I would have little to no hope of ever forcing anyone to do anything.  I really wouldn't want to.  I'm not a control freak.  But people who don't like games with open world PvP keep asking to explain why they would want to play such a game.  So I decided to ask this question because I'm getting tired of all of their questions.  I also don't like being asked to repeat myself constantly.  I have no idea whether or not people have read all the posts I've made in a certain thread or not.
  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited May 2017
    In your edit, it's all about perspective.  You think that people who hate PvP are the ones that feel powerless in their real life, really? I've always felt that people who LIKE PvP felt this way, ganking for example.

    The main reason why people seem to hate PvP, really doesn't have to be with "sore loser", if you have played any game with an emphasis on PvP, and visited the forum, you will figure out that most players that like PvP, are toxic players, that seem to ruin the community.

    It's also not a coincidence that F2P games that focus on PvP tend to be the most P2W games out there. It has very little (if at all) to do with the fear of being killed by another player.
    Post edited by Allerleirauh on
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    Grunty said:

    Choo, Choo!  Train arriving early.


    I'm not sure what you mean by that, lol.
  • CazrielCazriel Member UncommonPosts: 410
    I've died plenty in battlegrounds, RvR fortress fights and guild wars.  I don't think I've ever particularly minded it.  Just rez and get back at it.   But nowadays I won't touch PvP in any game.  It's turned into the assholery Olympics and at some point you just have to stop and realize that whether you consider yourself an asshole or not, by PvPing you are adding to the shit storm circulating around the globe.  It's my contribution to world peace. 
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992
    edited May 2017




    In your edit, it's all about perspective.  You think that people who hate PvP are the ones that feel powerless in their real life, really? I've always felt that people who LIKE PvP felt this way, ganking for example.

    The main reason why people seem to hate PvP, really doesn't have to be with "sore loser", if you have played any game with an emphasis on PvP, and visited the forum, you will figure out that most players that like PvP, are toxic players, that seem to ruin the community.

    It's also not a coincide that F2P games that focus on PvP tend to be the most P2W games out there. It has very little (if at all) to do with the fear of being killed by another player.


    The statement in my EDIT is not a blanket accusation against any and all.  And I agree, there are a lot of toxic players in PvP games.  When I first started EQ2 back in 2013, I accidentally made my character on the PvP server (I was really tired and stressed out at the time).  After I realized that I wasn't on a PvE server, I decided to just go with it as I had never played on a PvP server before.  When I brought my Paladin to Butcherblock Mountains on the Nagafen server, I got slaughtered 3 times in a row by a Shadow Knight.  I stood no chance whatsoever.  I was stomped on and crushed like an insignificant worm.  Furthermore, he did not even say one word to me at all, lol.  (It's kind of funny now, in a sadistic sort of way, looking back on it.)  Then a Troll asked me if I wanted to fight back at the port.  I told him no, but he proceeded to kill me twice in a row anyway.  After that I deleted my character and remade him on a PvE server, never looking back.  Eventually, I got him to max level (95 at the time).  But endgame grind soured me fast.  Especially after I maxed out a troubadour because I learned that Paladins were the weakest tank in the game, and I wanted to be actually wanted or needed in a raid.  Plus, Bard is my second favorite class after Paladin.  Fighter/Thief may be tied for third place.

    Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying.  But the way I want to make a game, the griefers/gankers would usually, or at least often, have just as much chance of getting killed themselves whenever they sought to prey on someone.

    And, yes, I do believe that the predatory griefers/gankers are probably insecure or feel powerless in real life.  Just like most bullies.  I have ways to deal with these people in the game I want to make.
  • cantankerousmagecantankerousmage Member UncommonPosts: 992

    Cazriel said:

    I've died plenty in battlegrounds, RvR fortress fights and guild wars.  I don't think I've ever particularly minded it.  Just rez and get back at it.   But nowadays I won't touch PvP in any game.  It's turned into the assholery Olympics and at some point you just have to stop and realize that whether you consider yourself an asshole or not, by PvPing you are adding to the shit storm circulating around the globe.  It's my contribution to world peace. 


    I don't consider myself to be an asshole generally, but sometimes I allow myself to act like on.  It's a lot easier to be one on the internet where you can't see people face-to-face.  Where most of the time they don't even know what you look like or what your real name is. 

    But there are ways to make being an asshole in a game not so profitable, and most likely detrimental.  Unless one's goal is to be a thug, some kind of nefarious criminal, or even a hateful and hated villain.
  • JakobmillerJakobmiller Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Phry said:



    maxlance said:


    There's no thrill if you can't get killed. :D




    Thrill? and yet PVP in MMO's is often determined by levels and gear, dying from such an outcome is hardly thrilling, though if you were dying while challenging a dungeon, or exploring a new area, yeah, i can see how that can have a certain 'thrill' to it, but that is more likely to be experienced playing MMO's alongside others, not against. :o


    That's where games like Darkfall is a success to the genre when it comes to PVP. Gear and character skill matters, but it's not remotely close to any of the other games around. A pretty new character can beat a veteran.
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