the kickstarter failed , unless iam confused on kickstarter why would you put money on a failed kickstarter?
I think it failed because no one trusted Brad. I think the game has started to change peoples' mind now that they see the game in the live stream and they see actual progress.
So are they running another kickstarter, like i said not sure how it works...all i know is a campaign is set up for a time..after they time ends they either meet the goal and succeed or dont and fail.
playing: Dragon Age Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect Want to try: Fallen Earth
No one is trying to twist any arms here, if you like what they're doing and want to help make it a success, then pledge. If you don't care whether or not the game becomes a reality and you're happy with what is currently being offered, then don't.
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
Pathfinder's Pledge - All previous reward tiers PLUS: The first year's
subscription is included, and the subsequent yearly rate is $1.
it not very cost effective to offer lifetime gaming if you plan to have you game running longer then 2 years it a lose, so it was a good value then but not enough agreed for the game to reach 100% funded.
so they put in more work offer lower rewards to offset their cost an now people are coming out woodworks saying they want lifetime sub/better rewards when before they were absent or maybe they just want too troll.
OP has the misconception of a lot of people of our veteran status. These crowdfunded games, the pledge tiers are not the same as buying the game at a store or on steam. When you pledge you are basically investing in a game that you WANT to succeed. A lot of us are tired of the corporate destruction of the MMO genre. The regurgitated crap of F2P and cash shops coupled with hollow content and anti social mechanics.
I'm not pledging a $1000 to buy a game. I'm pledging a $1000 to hopefully have access to an MMO that makes sense. That is how sick and tired I am of this genre. This doesn't mean everyone has to pledge a $1000 to play this game, but enough of us do in order for the game to become a finished product. So don't feel obligated or left out. There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from waiting till the game launches and buying it for $50-60. All that matters is that it does launch, so we can all sit back at the tavern, sipping our ale and thank the gods their isn't a Night Elf hooker upstairs role playing in public chat.
So you would be perfectly OK then with the elimination of tiered pledge rewards? You give them $1,000 because you want them to succeed that much and someone else gives them $50 and neither of you gets any more perks or special treatment than the other... limited alpha slots are drawn at random and he gets one and you don't.
Is that right?
That would be a system where the donors would be truly deserving of praise for their integrity and putting their money where their gaming philosophy commitments are. But I've never seen one like that. All of them have tiered perks according to the amount donated. As soon as you do that, no matter how much you try to skate around the issue, a financial transaction that walks and talks like the purchase of goods and/or services is happening.
There's a difference between alpha / beta access, a glorified title and some additional items that really don't affect the game play for anyone. In fact, the in-game items are available as low as $100. So in reality, I am pretty much spending $900 more with some additional out of game fluff and reputation status.
Let's not confuse this with the notorious P2W cash shop shenanigans we see flooding the market.
At a $1000 or more you are getting a "VIP" Planner who was recently hired to plan activities to make VIPs feel more "special"
I think anyone spends that kind of money crowdfunding a game is pretty "special" already.
I just came from an Alvin Ailey performance and looking at the donors I could see people donating 5k, 25k and 100k+.
Me being in the arts, the idea of patronizing, donating, whichever word one wants to use, isn't beyond the pale at all. Happens all the time.
So this type of patronage is commonplace in other walks of life. Now, in order to get games that have smaller audiences, it sort of makes sense. It also makes sense that people who give at that level get an extra "thank you".
In the case of games, I don't really think that should place one player above another player in terms of game play but having special events isn't any different than another concert I considered going to that allowed people who paid a "certain amount" to get dinner and drinks at a function with the performers.
As long as people can "really" afford it and it helps get a niche game off the ground I'm not really against it.
I do think that some players get caught up in the moment and shouldn't be giving/spending their money on such things.
Quite possibly one of the best explanations of the motivation of large scale supporters of crowd funded games, a modern patronage mentality of a sorts, just with more specific, beneficial and perhaps enduring perks than is typical in the arts.
It actually makes sense now.
Thanks! I'll be here all night. Try the veal!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
LoL so in the kickstarter they were offering 1 years sub for pledging $250 or more now $250-500 nets you 3 months, $1000 6 months and to get that original 1 year its now $3000 or $300 a month for 1 year (lol wtf is that bs). Oh and they do offer a lifetime sub it costs $10,000 or $1000 a month for a year.
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
Because people have gotten them before on previous games. Definitely doesn't make it the norm. If this is the direction the company wants to go, let them go for it. I don't understand why people want to blast them for the direction they are going.
Pathfinder's Pledge - All previous reward tiers PLUS: The first year's
subscription is included, and the subsequent yearly rate is $1.
it not very cost effective to offer lifetime gaming if you plan to have you game running longer then 2 years it a lose, so it was a good value then but not enough agreed for the game to reach 100% funded.
so they put in more work offer lower rewards to offset their cost an now people are coming out woodworks saying they want lifetime sub/better rewards when before they were absent or maybe they just want too troll.
The KS rewards are not valid since the KS failed.
You need to look at the pantheon pledge webpage to see new rewards - $250 gets you 3 month sub now.
The KS rewards are still valid -- if you had a KS receipt and bought the same pledge on their website store, in the short time window following the KS failure.
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
But they do offer a lifetime sub, except it costs $10,000 or $12,000 if you opt to pay them $300 a month for 12 months.
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
Because people have gotten them before on previous games. Definitely doesn't make it the norm. If this is the direction the company wants to go, let them go for it. I don't understand why people want to blast them for the direction they are going.
Every company that has done lifetime subs has lost money on the deal.
Its a horrible idea financially.
To expand:
B2P and F2P sort of (see below) offer a "lifetime" sub; some make money (Overwatch, Destiny, LoL), some don't. The percentage that do and don't doesn't matter just underscores that its complicated,
Clearly if a team is going to continue and grow a game then they generate revenue from either Option 1: new sales and/or Option 2: revenue from cash shops, dlc etc.
A lifetime sub that "guarantees" a steady stream of new content with no new revenue is committing to constant expenditure and limiting itself to Option 1: new sales revenue only. And - as you say - very few games pull that off.
(To clarify the "sort of" comment as far as B2P/F2P games go they don't "guarantee" new stuff.)
One would hope 1k would give you a lifetime sub but guess not.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
Because people have gotten them before on previous games. Definitely doesn't make it the norm. If this is the direction the company wants to go, let them go for it. I don't understand why people want to blast them for the direction they are going.
Every company that has done lifetime subs has lost money on the deal.
Its a horrible idea financially.
Based on what data that you've seen? At a $1,000 price point, I seriously doubt the majority of people who would purchase such a package would play beyond 5 years ($15*12*5+box fee=roughly 1k).
Considering most games haven't had anything near that retention, I doubt there has been much financial hardship over lifetime subs at that price point.
But you don't have to pledge. Like, at all. Ever. You can just wait for the game to come out and pay your $60 and 15 a month. The point of pledging is for them to make money and raise money for development, not for them to make 0 profit off of you. A Pledge is you voluntarily donating, the perks are just nice perks. A beta spot is a hot ticket item that people always want in games, they can certainly sell those. It ensures that people beta testing are serious about the game since they have some skin in the game.
To me a pledge is just a pre-order that you can't cancel that helps to develop a game that you have interest in being made. Without this method of development we would surely never see a game like Pantheon. I am glad for the emergence of crowd funding, and hopeful that people don't take advantage of it's innocence too much and ruin it. (Star Citizen)
Lets just face it, the crowd funding cat is out of the bag and not going away. People will always put money into things because they want to regardless of whether it's a bad idea or not. I mean hell some lady crowd funded her kids trip to Disneyland, I wish I had thought of that before shelling out 15k on a trip. Is it a bad bushiness move to offer pledges with rewards? Probably not since it seems to work.
For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months. Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier. Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60 and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all. Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?
I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price. It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees. And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game? I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case. The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.
Nobody really knows if the $1000 package is actually the most popular, except the people in charge of Pantheon. It would be a very appropriate and useful marketing strategy to mark the $1000 one as most popular, even if it is not, in order to apply social proof effect to the package which would garner the most profit for the Pantheon game team.
The social proof is already working, as OP is conflicted about getting the $1000 when he clearly cannot rationalize or afford it.
Not sure why anybody would trust a project headed up by Brad McQuaid anyway.
I am talking about other MMOs that offered Lifetime Subscription option - it was usually at a around several hundred dollars like DCUO had it for $199 and Lotro had it for $199
They lost their ass on those - which is one of the reasons they all got removed.
It's a moot point today with cash shops and no subs - but with sub only option - lifetime sub would have to be extremely expensive to be worth it.
also, Hellgate: London life time sub was $150 and the game completely failed. the average pledge on the pantheon kickstarter that failed was $150 Brad is a smart con man. With the history of this game's development you'd be a fool to pledge anything. But you know what they say about fools and money. This is just Vanguard 2.0 There are a lot of people from firesofheaven(dot)org a group who grew up on EQ that are craving another reskin no matter how bad it is and are willing to drop 1k+ on a game this early. So it wouldn't surprise me if the 1k pledge is truly the most popular
Standalone Price: Price for the ship when it's available in the pledge store.
Warbond Price: Discounted prices to generate new money for development. Only cash can be used, no store credit allowed. Usually only available during the initial concept sale.
Original Concept Price: Price of the ship at the original concept sale. The original value is used in this colum, not the warbond discount price.
Game Package Price: Price for ship including the game. There have been other packages for sale with different ship combinatons, but only the ones that are permanent available in the pledge store are listed here. And for the #Limited ships the package that includes that ship has been listed.
Permanent: Currently available in the pledge store and will remain available for the foreseeable future.
Limited: Only sold during initial concept sale or special events, all are expected to return to the pledge store at some point.
#Limited: Only a limited number of the ships were sold. They may or may not return to the pledge store. Most of these ships are still available in the combo packages. The Scythe and Idris-M will never return outside of the $10,000 and $15,000 packs.
*Limited: Only available during the initial concept sale and has been stated to never be available during sales again.
Promo: Only has been available as a promotional item in cooperation with another company.
Comments
playing: Dragon Age
Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect
Want to try: Fallen Earth
I dunno, maybe cause it failed because they had nothing to show, but now they do?
I think it failed because no one trusted Brad. I think the game has started to change peoples' mind now that they see the game in the live stream and they see actual progress.
playing: Dragon Age
Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect
Want to try: Fallen Earth
It's that simple.
Wasn't the price for lifetime sub in LotRO, AoC, Champions Online,Star Trek Online etc like 2-3 hundred dollars? And these guys dont even offer it when you pay $1000 lol.
Pledge $250 or more
Pathfinder's Pledge - All previous reward tiers PLUS: The first year's
subscription is included, and the subsequent yearly rate is $1.
it not very cost effective to offer lifetime gaming if you plan to have you game running longer then 2 years it a lose, so it was a good value then but not enough agreed for the game to reach 100% funded.
so they put in more work offer lower rewards to offset their cost an now people are coming out woodworks saying they want lifetime sub/better rewards when before they were absent or maybe they just want too troll.
Thanks! I'll be here all night. Try the veal!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They don't have to offer life time subs. Why do people feel entitled to have them?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Because people have gotten them before on previous games. Definitely doesn't make it the norm. If this is the direction the company wants to go, let them go for it. I don't understand why people want to blast them for the direction they are going.
The KS rewards are still valid -- if you had a KS receipt and bought the same pledge on their website store, in the short time window following the KS failure.
But they do offer a lifetime sub, except it costs $10,000 or $12,000 if you opt to pay them $300 a month for 12 months.
To expand:
B2P and F2P sort of (see below) offer a "lifetime" sub; some make money (Overwatch, Destiny, LoL), some don't. The percentage that do and don't doesn't matter just underscores that its complicated,
Clearly if a team is going to continue and grow a game then they generate revenue from either Option 1: new sales and/or Option 2: revenue from cash shops, dlc etc.
A lifetime sub that "guarantees" a steady stream of new content with no new revenue is committing to constant expenditure and limiting itself to Option 1: new sales revenue only. And - as you say - very few games pull that off.
(To clarify the "sort of" comment as far as B2P/F2P games go they don't "guarantee" new stuff.)
Considering most games haven't had anything near that retention, I doubt there has been much financial hardship over lifetime subs at that price point.
You can just wait for the game to come out and pay your $60 and 15 a month.
The point of pledging is for them to make money and raise money for development, not for them to make 0 profit off of you. A Pledge is you voluntarily donating, the perks are just nice perks.
A beta spot is a hot ticket item that people always want in games, they can certainly sell those. It ensures that people beta testing are serious about the game since they have some skin in the game.
The social proof is already working, as OP is conflicted about getting the $1000 when he clearly cannot rationalize or afford it.
Not sure why anybody would trust a project headed up by Brad McQuaid anyway.
I would need to see some stats on that to believe it.
I think they may have lost money on a few of them sure, that stayed around for the long haul.
But i would bet the majority of those that bought the lifetimes, never played the game that long to make it to the break even.
Just the way people are, they come into a game with stars in their eyes, and hype in their ears,then the real game bites them in the butt.
The few people that i know personally that bought lifetime subs to games didn't play them even a year and regretted buying them.
also, Hellgate: London life time sub was $150 and the game completely failed.
the average pledge on the pantheon kickstarter that failed was $150
Brad is a smart con man. With the history of this game's development you'd be a fool to pledge anything.
But you know what they say about fools and money. This is just Vanguard 2.0
There are a lot of people from firesofheaven(dot)org a group who grew up on EQ that are craving another reskin no matter how bad it is and are willing to drop 1k+ on a game this early.
So it wouldn't surprise me if the 1k pledge is truly the most popular
Standalone Price: Price for the ship when it's available in the pledge store.
Warbond Price: Discounted prices to generate new money for development. Only cash can be used, no store credit allowed. Usually only available during the initial concept sale.
Original Concept Price: Price of the ship at the original concept sale. The original value is used in this colum, not the warbond discount price.
Game Package Price: Price for ship including the game. There have been other packages for sale with different ship combinatons, but only the ones that are permanent available in the pledge store are listed here. And for the #Limited ships the package that includes that ship has been listed.
Availability Key
Edit
Permanent: Currently available in the pledge store and will remain available for the foreseeable future.
Limited: Only sold during initial concept sale or special events, all are expected to return to the pledge store at some point.
#Limited: Only a limited number of the ships were sold. They may or may not return to the pledge store. Most of these ships are still available in the combo packages. The Scythe and Idris-M will never return outside of the $10,000 and $15,000 packs.
*Limited: Only available during the initial concept sale and has been stated to never be available during sales again.
Promo: Only has been available as a promotional item in cooperation with another company.