Also don't like having to use a consumable for weather acclimation, I thought it was going to be a skill that increased the more time you spent in harsh conditions "You get better at cold acclimation 68" or something like that...
Yea but then once you get to a certain level you are done. At least a consumable means that harsh conditions "should" always be a consideration. Unless of course you can keep an infusion forever in which case why bother?
It shouldn't be easy, it should take a really long time to achieve that cap. but the idea of injecting something to acclimate to weather is kinda weird. Now if you had to get some really super rare epic potion to achieve those last few skill ups that would be cool. RPG's mmorpg's of yesteryear were all about making your guy stronger through his or her trials and time commitment, not about keeping stocked up on consumables... But if this is the way Pantheon is going I'll still give it a go for sure, maybe we just don't have enough details yet to see what they are really going to do with this system.
His point is that once you achieve it becomes stale. So you grind to "that's it". So is not a challenge, is a check mark.
Games used that, like weapon skill based mechanics and resistances so people would stand still in certain areas being attacked by mobs, afk, to "raise armor level" or stand still in fire areas to "raise fire resistance".
Once it becomes a number players will turn it into a banality and work a way around it instead of using it as an engaging mechanic.
The key is not to complete neglect the challenge but engage the player on it.
Its all good, we all like what we like, I just don't like having to keep track of mountains of consumables... I think the classic EQ skill up system was great, just wished there was more to skill up. In pantheon I thought weather acc was going to be one of them, but maybe not... that's all..
Also don't like having to use a consumable for weather acclimation, I thought it was going to be a skill that increased the more time you spent in harsh conditions "You get better at cold acclimation 68" or something like that...
Yea but then once you get to a certain level you are done. At least a consumable means that harsh conditions "should" always be a consideration. Unless of course you can keep an infusion forever in which case why bother?
It shouldn't be easy, it should take a really long time to achieve that cap. but the idea of injecting something to acclimate to weather is kinda weird. Now if you had to get some really super rare epic potion to achieve those last few skill ups that would be cool. RPG's mmorpg's of yesteryear were all about making your guy stronger through his or her trials and time commitment, not about keeping stocked up on consumables... But if this is the way Pantheon is going I'll still give it a go for sure, maybe we just don't have enough details yet to see what they are really going to do with this system.
His point is that once you achieve it becomes stale. So you grind to "that's it". So is not a challenge, is a check mark.
Games used that, like weapon skill based mechanics and resistances so people would stand still in certain areas being attacked by mobs, afk, to "raise armor level" or stand still in fire areas to "raise fire resistance".
Once it becomes a number players will turn it into a banality and work a way around it instead of using it as an engaging mechanic.
The key is not to complete neglect the challenge but engage the player on it.
That's well said and it's exactly my point.
As you say, it shouldn't be a "check mark". "yup, totally resistant to cold now, next goal is to be able to swim in lava".
The environment should be something that players need to contend with and deal with, not just another thing to level.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The stream was great and I really liked the monk animations. The game feels like my old Neverwinter Night friday with friends.
The only thing that bothers me is the UI and global light effects. They need to improve the global light, it makes everything looks flat and outdated.
If that's what you really wanted, needed, you would still be playing it. There are reasons we move on. It's the same as old girlfriends. Fun to think about, maybe even alright to go back and stick it in once in awhile but there is a reason they are ex's. I hope I'm wrong. I hope this, hell any indie mmo for that fact, turns out to be great and a blast but I think we all know better deep down.
I still play it.
You should stop using yourself as metric to others. This is a niche game for people who seek that experience. If you are not seeking it I don't see the point of your comments.
I'll metric myself to whatever I want. You are why we can't have nice things. You don't see the point of my comments and I don't see your point on rewarding mediocrity. You keep settling for sub-par though and I'll keep pointing out the trash.
I'll metric myself to whatever I want. You are why we can't have nice things. You don't see the point of my comments and I don't see your point on rewarding mediocrity. You keep settling for sub-par though and I'll keep pointing out the trash.
Point out trash all you want but its a fact, your perspective is not one I agree with. Im sure if you started telling me about your fav action twitched base game. The very reasons you like it will be the very reasons I am sick of them. Many like myself have been waiting 10 years + for a modern update on EQ1 and what made it awesome. EQ1 is what made every MMO after be a thing because of how well it did. It time we went grass roots on an MMO.
Well i did not like the answer i heard in that stream about soloing. I honestly do not want to keep pointing at FFXI but seems devs are still NOT able to think outside the big bubble. Almost no game in existence was as group oriented as FFXI,yet guess what,you could solo via mostly the Beastmaster class.They state it will still be possible to solo but extremely difficult.
Where they miss the boat is in what i call the obvious scenarios. Example you play with the same core group of friends ,everyday a sort of static group.Ok one day for whatever reason and likely MANY days,some of those friends cannot make it.Or you might just want to jump in and play for an hour and not wanting to screw over a PUG leaving barely after just getting started.
Another OFTEN dilemma i have come across is doing some content that is NOT fun repeating.So instead oaf asking the core group or guild to help every new player do that exact same content over and over you would simply help them attain a solo class such as a beastmaster and let them do that content themselves.
You create the GROUPING aspect by ONLY offering xp via killing stuff.Obviously with more buffs and debuffs that a group can offer,it would be way more efficient.As well speed chaining could offer bonuses again leaning towards grouping.The option to solo should always be there.
It is also supported via a sub class system.This is because sure you can do some odd content solo via that solo class but if there are 16 classes and only one can solo you are still going to play 99% of your game in a group.Another very obvious scenario is FARMING,do you really want to enforce groups for farming?
my last comment is on a topic i love and see a couple others talked about."ELEMENTS"this most certainly should be in the game and done like some have mentioned with Fire weakening water or certain elements causing aoe's etc etc,this would really make me happy because i love depth in combat and not those silly fake looking red carpets and red circles i see games using.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The stream was great and I really liked the monk animations. The game feels like my old Neverwinter Night friday with friends.
The only thing that bothers me is the UI and global light effects. They need to improve the global light, it makes everything looks flat and outdated.
If that's what you really wanted, needed, you would still be playing it. There are reasons we move on. It's the same as old girlfriends. Fun to think about, maybe even alright to go back and stick it in once in awhile but there is a reason they are ex's. I hope I'm wrong. I hope this, hell any indie mmo for that fact, turns out to be great and a blast but I think we all know better deep down.
You act like the games from the past we long to play again are still around in some recognizable form.
Well i did not like the answer i heard in that stream about soloing.
This however was not unexpected. The beating heart of this game is its orientation to group play and community. That's the main thing that sets it apart, and the gap it will fill in an otherwise flooded mmo environment. Soloing still will be possible, but far from optimal and not easy.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I am looking forward to this as I loved vanguard, but how much this looks like Vanguard is uncanny, surely they have used assets from that game as it looks very alike in everything from the animations, UI and nameplates etc
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
I agree with you. The other thing that wasn't clear is "why would I ever take an acclimation off"?
They said it lasts as long as you want. So why not get the best acclimation infusions and be done with it? IN which case they have a game system that is really over shortly after the player starts.
Why not keep the system but instead of these infusions make the player wear warm clothes in cold areas, put a salve on (that wears off, but maybe after 30 minutes or an hour) in poisonous areas, and maybe a similar salve in hot areas? Or maybe players have to strip down which means no armor (which adds interesting game play in my opinion).
This is more how I saw it taking shape, especially after seeing a ring in an earlier stream.
That said, I do understand the need for a different direction after considering the burden of itemization, art assets, equipment weight, bag space, and numerous other inconveniences. I just felt like it's implementation as displayed in the recent stream was a little over-simplistic and generic. From an immersion or believability standpoint, it's borderline silly being consumables.
I'd propose some sort of socketed systems with runes of resistance to atmospheric magic. They should also be unique in both look and name, and feel as prized to obtain as any other piece of equipment. I could see them going into a trinket bag in the Acclimation menu, which allows the player to equip the ones relevant to the area they exist. Upon replacement, they could be sacrificed on an item altar for buffs (should be nodrop item as they're tied to progression or access to areas).
This makes sense because the climates aren't just weather, but seem to be magical in nature. Therefore, it would make sense that magical runes would counter said environments, and merely piling or stripping clothing alone would not save you; nor would resistances to typical elemental spells (fire resist/cold resist).
A rune would then be temporarily socketed into each of the 5 main pieces of armor currently worn via the acclimation menu, providing the additional benefit of atmospheric resistance.
The problem with the above method, is that you're not taking into account that these augments are actually going to be more important than most of the equipment you ever use it with. They will be hard to obtain, and increasingly so in the higher tiers.
The other thing to bear in mind is that there will be quite a bit of situational gear, and not being able to change items and gain the benefit of the augments/runes, would make those "situations" very problematic.
.............................................Acclimation a way of locking content behind a pointless feature.................................................................
Yeah it does sound like that's more about locking content behind a gear grind than an interesting climate feature. If that's the case.. Boo, I'd prefer a survival type game element over that, leading to more downtime and an easier death.
I think what's being missed is that no one said the tier acclimation is confined to one set spot or that it's like an on/off switch of whether it affects you or not. It could be a whole dungeon or zone. The protection might only mitigate some of the damage so you don't die immediately. The survival type game element would still apply in that case. Most likely these "road blocks" would have some type of lore attached to it. Like a Lich hiding its Phylactery in an underwater dungeon for protection or trying to kill a Fire Giant at the bottom of a Volcano.
Yes, but in the context of their very own description, it's ultimately a gate locking mechanism for raid type content or anything with decent loot. I'm sure this is to stroke those elite player egos, by making the unlocking process so unbearably tedious, that only no-lifers will reach those tier 3, 4 and 5 areas and raids.
Yes, but in the context of their very own description, it's ultimately a gate locking mechanism for raid type content or anything with decent loot. I'm sure this is to stroke those elite player egos, by making the unlocking process so unbearably tedious, that only no-lifers will reach those tier 3, 4 and 5 areas and raids.
Ooo, gating. Ooo, locking! You're just using extreme language to describe progression that exists in every game. Whether it's items, levels, player skill, time, or a mix. Every game since ever has featured this. Especially MMOs.
There's plenty of shallow MMOs catering to super casuals. Pick one, and leave us in peace.
Anyone who liked the acclimation system as shown, stop for a moment and think about how easy it would be to take that system and transform it into a cash shop item, despite their promises. I'm not saying that VR is planning that, but that certainly seems like an easy item to monetize should that decision change.
To me, this is nothing more than maximizing your resistances in the Luclin / PoP era. Don't have it, you die. Have it, you may proceed with your raid. It isn't new as a concept or implementation. How this is a point of difference baffles me. Even rides at theme parks have had the "You must be this tall to ride this ride" signs since the 1970s.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Yes, but in the context of their very own description, it's ultimately a gate locking mechanism for raid type content or anything with decent loot. I'm sure this is to stroke those elite player egos, by making the unlocking process so unbearably tedious, that only no-lifers will reach those tier 3, 4 and 5 areas and raids.
Ooo, gating. Ooo, locking! You're just using extreme language to describe progression that exists in every game. Whether it's items, levels, player skill, time, or a mix. Every game since ever has featured this. Especially MMOs.
There's plenty of shallow MMOs catering to super casuals. Pick one, and leave us in peace.
There's nothing more shallow in my eyes than putting time extending mechanics onto features like that. As there's no more mediocre way to extend play time than that. This is the biggest problem with most of those casual games you're directing players toward. They don't have interesting game-play mechanics, they use crutches like that to make it seems as though there is more game than there actually is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hopefully the gating isn't as bad as Wildstar originally was, where tons of hardcore raiders quit when they realized they'd have to run the same boring non-raid dungeons over and over again before they're even allowed to enter the raids.
The really big complaint I have is against the game play. It is still the basic play as we saw in EQ1. A group engages a single mob, while extra mobs are pacified and a healer tries to keep everyone alive. From a CC perspective, whatever CC method (rogues, I believe) lasted far too long. In one instance, one mob waited for more than 2 minutes, and was instantly taunted to the tank. I suspect that the mez and the taunt are both overpowered. That can be adjusted, and desperately needs to be. I'd like to see mez increase the hate against the mezzer the longer the mob stays mezzed
Yeah, the combat still doesnt look good.
The fans of the game use ridiculous Strawman Arguments like "us OLD SCHOOL people dont want any of that bunnyhop Dance Dance Revolution combat".
...O ...K
But, is standing in one place pressing a button every few seconds while the tank never loses aggro and the crowd controlled enemies never break better?
I would say its far worse.
They argue its "more strategic" but I saw absolutely no high level strategic gameplay in any of the combat seen in Pantheon.
Hopefully they improve the combat and make it a bit more difficult and challenging but I dont think the fans would like that.
We'll see how it goes but by comparison I'm already excited about crowfall but pantheon hasn't managed to grab my attention yet....and I backed both...and crowfall is even newer in terms of development. Not a great sign, or perhaps a testament to how well crowfall is coming along.
Yes, but in the context of their very own description, it's ultimately a gate locking mechanism for raid type content or anything with decent loot. I'm sure this is to stroke those elite player egos, by making the unlocking process so unbearably tedious, that only no-lifers will reach those tier 3, 4 and 5 areas and raids.
Ooo, gating. Ooo, locking! You're just using extreme language to describe progression that exists in every game. Whether it's items, levels, player skill, time, or a mix. Every game since ever has featured this. Especially MMOs.
There's plenty of shallow MMOs catering to super casuals. Pick one, and leave us in peace.
There's nothing more shallow in my eyes than putting time extending mechanics onto features like that. As there's no more mediocre way to extend play time than that. This is the biggest problem with most of those casual games you're directing players toward. They don't have interesting game-play mechanics, they use crutches like that to make it seems as though there is more game than there actually is.
You could make the same argument for gating content behind levels. There has to be a way of allowing players to access more content based on some sort of prerequisite.
Not only is that the way games have always worked, it's also the way real life works. Go ahead and try to apply for any high level career position without first being educated in the field or having experience in a similar position. That job isn't going to be unlocked for you.
I'll metric myself to whatever I want. You are why we can't have nice things. You don't see the point of my comments and I don't see your point on rewarding mediocrity. You keep settling for sub-par though and I'll keep pointing out the trash.
Point out trash all you want but its a fact, your perspective is not one I agree with. Im sure if you started telling me about your fav action twitched base game. The very reasons you like it will be the very reasons I am sick of them. Many like myself have been waiting 10 years + for a modern update on EQ1 and what made it awesome. EQ1 is what made every MMO after be a thing because of how well it did. It time we went grass roots on an MMO.
I want those things as well. I'm not here pushing back on the mechanics that made earlier games great. You misconstrue what I am saying. There is absolutely no logical reason why a game must have one thing that's great and sacrifice something else in return other than lack of ability within the development team. I assure you I wish for the glory days as much as the next junkie does but I will not look at a product and ignore obvious shortcomings and be happy about promised mechanics.
Maybe this will be the steppingstone they need to learn how to make a good mmorpg and get some real funding without having to beg for it. Until then this game is half baked and half assed no matter how fervently you defend it.
Comments
Its all good, we all like what we like, I just don't like having to keep track of mountains of consumables... I think the classic EQ skill up system was great, just wished there was more to skill up. In pantheon I thought weather acc was going to be one of them, but maybe not... that's all..
That's well said and it's exactly my point.
As you say, it shouldn't be a "check mark". "yup, totally resistant to cold now, next goal is to be able to swim in lava".
The environment should be something that players need to contend with and deal with, not just another thing to level.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Point out trash all you want but its a fact, your perspective is not one I agree with. Im sure if you started telling me about your fav action twitched base game. The very reasons you like it will be the very reasons I am sick of them. Many like myself have been waiting 10 years + for a modern update on EQ1 and what made it awesome. EQ1 is what made every MMO after be a thing because of how well it did. It time we went grass roots on an MMO.
I honestly do not want to keep pointing at FFXI but seems devs are still NOT able to think outside the big bubble.
Almost no game in existence was as group oriented as FFXI,yet guess what,you could solo via mostly the Beastmaster class.They state it will still be possible to solo but extremely difficult.
Where they miss the boat is in what i call the obvious scenarios.
Example you play with the same core group of friends ,everyday a sort of static group.Ok one day for whatever reason and likely MANY days,some of those friends cannot make it.Or you might just want to jump in and play for an hour and not wanting to screw over a PUG leaving barely after just getting started.
Another OFTEN dilemma i have come across is doing some content that is NOT fun repeating.So instead oaf asking the core group or guild to help every new player do that exact same content over and over you would simply help them attain a solo class such as a beastmaster and let them do that content themselves.
You create the GROUPING aspect by ONLY offering xp via killing stuff.Obviously with more buffs and debuffs that a group can offer,it would be way more efficient.As well speed chaining could offer bonuses again leaning towards grouping.The option to solo should always be there.
It is also supported via a sub class system.This is because sure you can do some odd content solo via that solo class but if there are 16 classes and only one can solo you are still going to play 99% of your game in a group.Another very obvious scenario is FARMING,do you really want to enforce groups for farming?
my last comment is on a topic i love and see a couple others talked about."ELEMENTS"this most certainly should be in the game and done like some have mentioned with Fire weakening water or certain elements causing aoe's etc etc,this would really make me happy because i love depth in combat and not those silly fake looking red carpets and red circles i see games using.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You act like the games from the past we long to play again are still around in some recognizable form.
That is not the case.
Man I haven't been this excited for an mmo for years lol.
The stream was top notch.
This however was not unexpected. The beating heart of this game is its orientation to group play and community. That's the main thing that sets it apart, and the gap it will fill in an otherwise flooded mmo environment. Soloing still will be possible, but far from optimal and not easy.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
This is more how I saw it taking shape, especially after seeing a ring in an earlier stream.
That said, I do understand the need for a different direction after considering the burden of itemization, art assets, equipment weight, bag space, and numerous other inconveniences. I just felt like it's implementation as displayed in the recent stream was a little over-simplistic and generic. From an immersion or believability standpoint, it's borderline silly being consumables.
I'd propose some sort of socketed systems with runes of resistance to atmospheric magic. They should also be unique in both look and name, and feel as prized to obtain as any other piece of equipment. I could see them going into a trinket bag in the Acclimation menu, which allows the player to equip the ones relevant to the area they exist. Upon replacement, they could be sacrificed on an item altar for buffs (should be nodrop item as they're tied to progression or access to areas).
This makes sense because the climates aren't just weather, but seem to be magical in nature. Therefore, it would make sense that magical runes would counter said environments, and merely piling or stripping clothing alone would not save you; nor would resistances to typical elemental spells (fire resist/cold resist).
A rune would then be temporarily socketed into each of the 5 main pieces of armor currently worn via the acclimation menu, providing the additional benefit of atmospheric resistance.
The other thing to bear in mind is that there will be quite a bit of situational gear, and not being able to change items and gain the benefit of the augments/runes, would make those "situations" very problematic.
Yes, but in the context of their very own description, it's ultimately a gate locking mechanism for raid type content or anything with decent loot. I'm sure this is to stroke those elite player egos, by making the unlocking process so unbearably tedious, that only no-lifers will reach those tier 3, 4 and 5 areas and raids.
There's plenty of shallow MMOs catering to super casuals. Pick one, and leave us in peace.
To me, this is nothing more than maximizing your resistances in the Luclin / PoP era. Don't have it, you die. Have it, you may proceed with your raid. It isn't new as a concept or implementation. How this is a point of difference baffles me. Even rides at theme parks have had the "You must be this tall to ride this ride" signs since the 1970s.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yup Salute Nan, game is not for me, but nice job. Hope it all works out for everyone.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Yeah, the combat still doesnt look good.
The fans of the game use ridiculous Strawman Arguments like "us OLD SCHOOL people dont want any of that bunnyhop Dance Dance Revolution combat".
...O ...K
But, is standing in one place pressing a button every few seconds while the tank never loses aggro and the crowd controlled enemies never break better?
I would say its far worse.
They argue its "more strategic" but I saw absolutely no high level strategic gameplay in any of the combat seen in Pantheon.
Hopefully they improve the combat and make it a bit more difficult and challenging but I dont think the fans would like that.
You could make the same argument for gating content behind levels. There has to be a way of allowing players to access more content based on some sort of prerequisite.
Not only is that the way games have always worked, it's also the way real life works. Go ahead and try to apply for any high level career position without first being educated in the field or having experience in a similar position. That job isn't going to be unlocked for you.
I want those things as well. I'm not here pushing back on the mechanics that made earlier games great. You misconstrue what I am saying. There is absolutely no logical reason why a game must have one thing that's great and sacrifice something else in return other than lack of ability within the development team. I assure you I wish for the glory days as much as the next junkie does but I will not look at a product and ignore obvious shortcomings and be happy about promised mechanics.
Maybe this will be the steppingstone they need to learn how to make a good mmorpg and get some real funding without having to beg for it. Until then this game is half baked and half assed no matter how fervently you defend it.