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WoW v FFXIV
d_20
Member RarePosts: 1,878
If you wanted a standard theme park gear grind, which one would/do you play and why?
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d_20
Member RarePosts: 1,878
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It simplified its trees which had afforded some thought and interesting play style in favour of some utterly boring simplification that made me shed a tear when I first came across it on one of my numerous attempts to return to the game. Then to add insult to injury when I tried to get quests that I knew were there it would not appear to prevent me yes prevent you from accepting quests that were higher than your level. The quests the game decided I cannot handle. That really made me even sadder.
So once again I must stress that I cannot recommend this game.
FFXIV has slower combat with actual challenges before you hit cap. WoW is pretty faceroll before that, especially dungeons.
I think FFXIV does grouping better and WoW does soloing better. In fact, you're forced into quite a lot of groups to progress the story in FFXIV.
I like both stories and lore. FFXIV gives a more cinematic experience with their story earlier. WoW does the same, later on, but it involves a lot more reading. WoW made WoD and Legion a lot more cinematic but still not to the same level as FFXIV. A majority of WoW quests still rely on reading.
FFXIV has the better crafting system. You can lose yourself for days in it, at least I did. WoW crafting doesn't really do it for me.
For classes I prefer WoW over FFXIV. Even after all the ability pruning that Blizzard has done I still prefer their classes, and abilities, over FFXIV. They play out quite different as well. A mage in WoW can be a lot more mobile, while the Black Mage in FFXIV is extremely stationary. You actually lose out on DPS with a Black Mage if you move. WoW has more options for each class depending on what spec you pick. Your mage can be mobile, a turret, or offer up a bit more CC. A Black Mage is just a Black Mage in FFXIV.
If you want to play a healer it depends. WoW healing is far easier to me. FFXIV healing can be stressful. FFXIV has a lot of burst damage, especially if your tank is a Dark Knight, so you go from doing damage to a near group wipe in a matter of seconds. Also, because the GCD is so long in FFXIV you really have to choose what you cast next wisely. In WoW, while healing, I feel like I am relaxing. It seems like I have a lot more recovery tools and options in WoW to carry a bad team, as a healer. In FFXIV when I am healing I am stressed and no amount of healing is going to carry a bad group, but you will usually take the blame for it anyway. Last, you're expected to bring damage as a healer in FFXIV.
If you want to play a tank, same as healer, it depends. I don't play tanks but this is just from listening to others and my experience with both. In FFXIV Tanks are expected to be the leaders of the group and know the mechanics. If you want to be the leader, by default, then FFXIV will be more your speed. Tanks in FFXIV are expected to do their homework. I think it's far more laid back in WoW. You don't have the same pressure as a tank that you do in FFXIV.
WoW has better zones. While FFXIV has more updated graphics, the zones are small and take away a lot of the immersion for me. You're getting loading screens frequently in FFXIV. This makes WoW feel far larger and like an actual world. FFXIV can feel like a lobby game where you're jumping into different rooms.
Wow, didn't mean for this post to be this long. Regardless, I like both games. I think they both have positives and negatives to offer up. The biggest game I would recommend depends on if you want a challenge or not since that's the most glaring difference for me between the two. If you're looking for a challenge and plenty of grouping head over to FFXIV. If you're looking to relax and take it easy head over to WoW. This has just been my experience, hope it helps.
WoW if you want to rush through the lower level stuff to get to the current meat of the game.
Hay I agree with this, every word
However FFXIV is not much better.
FFXIV is more group oriented, WoW is more solo oriented
FFXIV has much more/better non-combat activities (housing, collectible card game, various mini games)
FFXIV crafting/gathering is much more involved and is very rewarding/lucrative
WoW has more diversity in combat classes/builds
WoW has one class per character and a zillion side quests, so leveling alts is a thing. FFXIV has basically one main quest chain and one character can level every job, so alts are rare.
WoW has a greater number of larger and more varied zones, so it "feels like a world" more than FFXIV.
WoW loot is mechanically more fun/diverse/interesting than FFXIV loot.
Side quests in WoW tend to be more interesting, but FFXIV has an excellent main-story quest chain.
PvP in both games can be fun but is ultimately pretty shallow. FFXIV combat starts very slow at low levels, but both games can be quite fast-paced and challenging at the highest level content.
Both games have excellent lore and story, but WoW is more like reading a book and FFXIV is more like watching a movie, if that makes any sense.
Personally I play FFXIV and prefer it to WoW because I don't need alts, because the non-combat stuff is great, and for the Final Fantasy main story and aesthetics. That said I do miss things from WoW like gear sets with interesting bonuses and stats, sprawling side quest chains, and class diversity.
There's very little difference really.
Yoshida unabashedly uses WoW as the main blueprint for FFXIV. He's indicated as much on numerous occasions. If it's in WoW, at some point it'll show up in some manner in FFXIV. Latest example: Extended Free Trial or "partial F2P".
- He's said that if WoW ever goes F2P, that they'd likely follow suit.
- WoW added the extended free trial, and so of course... FFXIV now has it.
- His argument for adding jumping potions was, in large part, because WoW has them.
- Dumbing down content and designed obsolescence exist in both games. Difference is, Yoshida doesn't seem to understand that it's one thing when your game is 10+ years old and on its 6th expansion, and when your game is only a few years old, and only coming up on its second. WoW's doing it so, he must do it as well. In one case, there's *tons* of content to go through, even if it's dumbed down. In the other... not so much, especially with how Yoshida loves trivializing content when it's only 2-3 updates old.
- WoW has been streamlining and simplifying their combat systems... Guess what Yoshida is doing with FFXIV in 4.0? Yep...
The examples go on and on.
The guy simply doesn't seem to have an original thought in his head. He has firmly anchored FFXIV's development to WoW's shadow, and it's going to remain that way.
All else being equal, starting from scratch, someone is going to get far more mileage out of WoW right now than they will out of FFXIV.
Both are themeparks with almost the same setups. Both are linear progression. Both have content negation built into the game. Both are heavily casual player focused.
Somethings FFXIV does better (Crafting/gathering/low man dungeons for example) some things WoW does better (Solo questing and large scale raiding). Endgame raiding difficulty are about the same in design and complexity. WoW's is more guild focused with larger raids, while ffxiv guilds have no purposes in terms of content progression and it is almost purely low man static groups.
The rest are preferences. FFXIV's 1 character for everything is far superior to the alt model wow uses for me, but I know many who are appalled by FFXIV's model because they love making alts. FF more anime feel vs WoW's Cartoony feel. and so on.
Do you like Warcraft or Final Fantasy better? find your answer then pick either WoW or FFXIV.
In terms of community WoW has more players but the servers are about as populated as FFXIV, and the wait times for duty/dungeon finders are about the same... so it will not be a noticeable difference. Both games have a healthy community to easily sustain the game.
Honestly FFXIV releases far more content the WoW expansion to expansion/patch to patch, but the content Wow launches tends to last alittle longer. So the amount to do at one time is about the same.
If you do not like WoW's model... do not play either.
Personal Opinion Both game are simply 6.5-7/10 games. Completely mediocre. Both have high production value and extreme polish but the game play is just so shallow, so extremely limited, so horribly linear. Both games have a horrible lack of content due to the constant built in content negation. The feeling of reward is so short lived, and there is no long term accomplishment in either, and the community and bonds that built this genre are decaying in both games.... FFXIV alot more in this case. I just never seen the hype of WoW's model especially the current model which keeps simplifying the game down more and more every expansion.
Not to try to sound trolly. But I would suggest looking into non-mmos and just playing some high rated console or pc solo player rpgs. Skyrim/Dragon Age/Dark Souls(If you want really hard) and other games like that. You will never completely get away from the group aspect of a mmo it is at its core what makes a mmo a mmo and not just a rpg.
But honestly FFXIV or SWToR out of the mmos currently out probably have the best Solo player and story combined. WoW has the best Solo player but the story telling at least in my opinion is weaker compaired to the other 2. I cannot think of any mmo that does not force group play at some point though. Most newer mmos do not have mandatory large scale raids most are focusing on 4 to 10 mans now days.
I have more faith in our community than that, Dakeru. Actually, I think there were some really nice responses in this thread.
@Avarix and @Aberius took the thought, time and effort to write insightful and fairly objective responses on their experiences. That's exactly what I was hoping for.
Also, @cheyane and @Xatsh wrote about their feelings about game design and gave specific examples to support their opinions. Those are also appreciated.
@Torval, which other themeparks do you prefer?
In my case, I just happen to have a sub running to both games this month. I had an old time card for FFXIV and also a bit of WoW nostalgia. My main game is ESO but I just wanted to take a break and dip into a game that's not too difficult for a casual player. I'm not interested in endgame raiding. Just a few dungeons once in a while.
I have a few max level WoW characters and I'm doing heroic difficulty and don't really see myself doing mythics. I don't really care about getting gear to get more gear. I have a level 12 FFXIV guardian and still thinking about how to make him a paladin. So I don't have much experience with FFXIV.
My impressions so far, though it's still very early for FFXIV:
I like WoW's combat better because of feeling like I always need to watch cooldowns in FFXIV, but still I know my char is very low level and I've only just started.
The people I've met so far in FFXIV, the community, seems much nicer. I haven't paid attention to zone chat in either game, but people actually message me in FFXIV before sending me a guild (FC) invite. Then I answer and say I'm just trying the game out and I'm not sure if I'm going to stick around long enough to join a guild. Then I get a nice response from an intelligent human being and maybe some advice or offers of help if I need. That's happened three times so far in the short time I've played. So it makes me want to play a bit longer.
I'm sure there are a lot of decent people in WoW, too, but you may have to got through a bit of static before finding them. If I decide to stick around, I will look for a guild in the forums.
Thanks all!
I like the story in FFXIV a lot better, and I love the fact that one character can be every class. I think the graphics are well done and fluid, and the music is amazing. The combat isn't overly complicated without being stupidly simple. I love the game all the way to the point where I hit the end-game gear grind, and then it comes to a crashing halt for me. The community here, by and large, is awesome, and full of people who aren't just interested in chasing spreadsheet optimal DPS rotations (although there are a few of those, too). Yoshi P is also awesome, and to support people like him is reason alone that this is the only game that I maintain a sub to, even when I'm not currently playing.
WoW, on the other hand. The story is a lot richer, but you need to do a lot of raiding to see it all. I love being able to sign on, join the LFD Queue, and get a group in just a few minutes no matter what class I play, what spec I play, what level range I'm in, or what time of day it is. The graphics are ... polished, if nothing else. The game undergoes radical changes every major expansion though. I can tolerate the gear grind in this game a bit more than FFXIV, it isn't quite as ... grindy, since it has more available routes to obtain passable gear.
Any MMO with so many expansions that Wow have loose a lot in the process. Some players seems to enjoy that but you get the gameworld full of zones that have been dead for 10 years, the gear balance get doubtful at best as you level up and classes tend to be a bit strange due to many raises in levelcap.
The exact same thing is also true for EQ 1 & 2 and most other MMOs over 10 years old with a multitude of expansions. That is just my personal opinion of course, on the plus side do they have tons of content but unless there is enough players in that content it seems rather moot to me.
/cough ESO is better /cough
ESO has been my main game for 3 years.
I only LOL when I think it's funny, not as a vote
a) Better non-combat content by far. If I am not feeling like beating something, there is a myriad of ways of playing side-games and stuff. The golden saucer casino zone alone can keep you busy for ages, with plenty of fully fleshed-out minigames - hell, the Minion Battles are basically a full-sized mobile game!
b) Storyline. Both presentation and content, as well as the natural way it leads you through the world, make playing FFXIV a much more cohesive experience than WoW. If you just come in, pick a class of your liking and progress through the story, it will naturally lead you to many (though not all) important places in the game.
c) MUCH MUCH better rate of content addtion, and content continues to be relevant, or goes back to relevance, all the time. They just deliver on that much better, and there is something for every playstyle in each update, not so centered around one type of player.
Now, when it comes to endgame, there are things I personally prefer, but would not consider a factual advantage: I much prefer the 8-man format for the difficult fights. It hits a sweet spot for me, it requires you to play well, and each players performance matters. Especially 25-mans in WoW feel less like a team effort, more like "just show up and bring your rotation".
I also enjoy not having 4-5 difficulty levels of every bit of content. I think the idea of having one normal/easy version, and then a really challenging one, is perfect. I dont appreciate having to do the same thing in 5 different levels. Give the casual players a nice sightseeing fight, and then the people who love pouring in effort a tough nut.
Last but not least, graphics. I personally grew tired of WoWs subpar graphics by now, and cant get back into that.
So you're saying the industry is based around the mentally ill and the drunk?
What's off in FFXIV is that - outside of being wrapped in FF content/fan-service - it has no identity of its own. It's a fan-service theme park for FF and SE fans. Arguably, it should be called "Final Fantasy Universe Online", not a numbered title in the main series.
Its Director/Producer has no good original ideas; pretty much everything he's implemented that wasn't adapted from another game has either fallen well short of its hype (see: Diadem 1.0 and 2.0, as one example), or bombed outright (Verminion as one example).
What's "off" with FFXIV goes back to the person leading it.
FFXIV was at its best in 2.0 because Yoshida was still working with the lore, setting and such that was established before he took over, and because SE were desperate to win back fans, and so were doing everything they could to do so. Since 3.0, when FFXIV proved "redeemed", and it became fully Yoshida's baby, it's gone continuously downhill.
The ship needs a new captain... again.
Even though I agree with your answer but it feels like you're saying do what I say don't do what I do cause you as well play just themepark grind games. You play: Rift, Archeage, BDO all of them are themepark grind games.
Yep. Well said.
Honestly, if you forget FFXIV is a Final Fantasy game, ignore all the staple FF elements and look at it purely as a MMO, it is really very unspectacular, even sub-par, compared to other offerings out there. If it were called anything else than Final Fantasy, I wager it would quickly fall by the wayside as just another derivative, unimaginative themepark MMO of hundreds listed on this site.
I've never fallen "out of love" with a MMORPG over such a short period of time as I have FFXIV. In only half of HW's update cycles, I went from dying to log in every day to being completely uninterested and bored with it.
I'm not a fan of WoW, really, either.. but if I *had* to choose one or the other, it would be WoW all day long. There's just far more game there and, ironically, less hand-holding in WoW.
It depends, honestly, as FFXIV has the least simple tab-target combat system in MMOs at present. Though it may be because that the game doesn't have any addons to tell you when to press buttons or get out of the way of things, which has trivialized any "difficulty" out of wow. I could -- and have -- written pages on the ins and outs of the combat system on this site alone, though suffice it to say that some classes have a 50 button rotation, rotations have rotations, mini games in between battles and gdcs and positional requirements that have to paid attention to within mini games, with each attack (one attack to the side, one to the back, one to the front, etc... with the -- say 50 -- button rotations have to switch with each button press or at the whm of procs, off-GDC attacks and potentially a roulette) have different power depending on multiple situations, your cross class skills, the boss and environment effects... even up to the point of what healers, dps and tank team mates you have (and how they handle mobs and position things themselves). With major punishment if you fail (with the Ninja mini-game in fights in particular), such as losing out on 30 seconds of 20% haste, visual humiliation that is shown when you fail, etc. Even knowing exactly when to use specific attacks lest you wipe yourself and or the group.
Someone hit the nail on the head when they said that FFXIV is the pick if you want a challenge or have an active brain, and WoW is if you just want to lay back, relax and let an addon tell you to "run away, little girl... run away" (addon reference). It could be too much for people, for sure, and thus be considered bad combat for them. We'll see what the new UI and combat system is like in the next expansion that they've been working on.
If someone just flat out hates tab-targeting, then they both are definitely bad combat systems for that person. Though the animations are typically pretty high quality.
Honestly, the only real similarity nowadays is the fact that it is a tab target game with item levels (though I said a similar thing back during alpha testing 2.0)
Though:
First point: He said that they had no intention of going F2P and merely said they might consider it if the model completely failed -- that is, if the juggernaut couldn't even maintain it. This is just business sense.
Second: Irrelevant to the game? WoW wasn't he first to have free trials, anyway. They also increased the trial level up to 35 while WoW keeps it at level 20. But even this "deviation" is superfluous as games just have free trials to encourage people to come. They also have free 96 hour campaigns for people who already own the game and bought months before. Just log in and play -- you have to contact a GM to have your account activated for a day or two on WoW (and usually only with good reason, such as getting gold from a friend to pay for the month).
Third: A feature that was requested and fixes the "problems" some people have with playing the game? In that some don't want to play the game they bought and just want to rush to the end? The fact that there was such a complaint shows how differently FFXIV handle(d) content as a whole. They focused on Story first -- they said they will always focus on story first; it is why there was (is) so much reading which has become voiced cutscenes in the Heavensward series (with their doubled budget and now, tripled budget from that with Stormblood). Heck, they even handle logins differently -- I can, and do keep characters logged in for 48 hours at a time and just afk without ever being logged out. But again, that's pretty superfluous, just like these last three points that have little to do with the game -- most (if not all of the ones mentioned so far) of which are dealt with outside of it..
Fourth: Not sure what you're getting at here. Though I'll assume it's about combat due to the overall wording. Aside from Heavensward increasing the skills and combos and rotations and things you have to worry about (people often refer to pre-heavensward as the easier "ARR Combat Days" when there were fewer things to worry about mechanically and rotations were slightly less intensive), there are a set of skills that are completely useless. One such being featherfoot. They have explained on numerous occasions that the useless ones are either being taken away, replaced, updated or merged. Ones that aren't used in the current bloated rotations. Also, you fail recognize the sheer amount of skills already available and the buttons that you have to press -- some less than others depending on the class. Though when considering that controllers are used for this game, you have to pay attention to the high-tier stuff when it comes to this. Which is, of course, the actual main difference and not them getting rid of obsolete skills "just because some other game is doing it". Even still, I have a gaming mouse, a gaming keyboard, etc... G-6 mapped (unique separate keys), 1-5, Control 1-5, Alt 1-5, F1-F5, Q, E, F, G, V, B, H, Y, T, R, Z, X, Alt Z, Alt X, Alt C, Alt V, Alt F, Cntrl Z, Cntrl X, Cntrl V Cntrl F. Cntrl B... etc. Along with each mouse button mapped. Not to mention the same thing on setting two of my keyboard (at the press of a button, it changes this all up).
I use almost every one consistently. Some moreso than others due to the nature of them being on cooldown or being procs vs. combo rotations. That's not even counting unique symbols such as Ninjutsu.
So the issue is them adding too much too quickly / acquiring bloat too soon and not just referring to an ambiguous time frame and expansion amount saying "look, logic!". The new benchmark also shows of multiple new attacks for each class, class revisions, etc. With them saying that we will still have the same amount of buttons as we do in Heavensward.
That said, there are definitely things borrowed from nearly every MMO; here's something to help with your list:
-FATES essentially being borrowed from WH / Rift / GW,
-The Gear treadmill that seems to plague each Themepark
-PvP Battlegrounds -- though to be fair, there was a sport and activities like this back in FFXI.
-They have flying in Heavensward -- and a great system to unlock it, mind you. Not waiting months trying to do the same thing, every day, for months... then doing it again with a new patch to unlock it.
-Cross realm party system (Which is a staple in MMOs)
I actually thought I could think of more... but as I thought on it, I was reminded of all the differences. I believe Quizzical said it best when, putting his personal opinion aside on WoW and FFXIV combat, that it "...does do nearly everything other than combat pretty well, though."
-The presentation of the story is unique; the way they handle MSQ, Side, IMP Side quest, etc.
-The way they handle bosses is unique with cinematics and their own tailored songs for boss fights and dungeons
-The side activities they provide are unique, such as Deep Dungeons ("infinite" random dungeons) to themeparks MMOs.
-The crafting is actually amazing and well thought of and crafting classes (levels and gear...) have storyline quests... Wait what did Legion try to do with this?
-The leveling system -- able to level every class on each character... which each class having its own class campaign (oh wait, what did Legion do with class campaigns...?)
- Living Artifact weapon (Legion?)
-Different pricing (superfluous).
-Reward structure for Veterans -- rewarding players; 8 character transfers for $18 flat vs $25-50 depending also on faction moving, per characters instead of bulk (superfluous)
-Dungeon structure with four players instead of WoW's five -- FF style.
-Hard Mode Dungeons that actually have additional storyline, change the layout of the dungeon, change the mobs, the bosses, the music... etc. Not just "increase HP and call it a day."
-The combat is vastly different -- wrote something about it above.
-8 Man Hard Raiding Structure with 24 man PUG Raiding -- the latter truly resembling WoW at first, if not for the fact that they are completely different raids with different story. Legitimately different raids. Different locations, bosses, music, etc.
-Focus on the small things such as new minigames, new events (and different events / items each years), hair styles, dances (dozens and dozens), emotes, furniture, housing, apartments... which also leads to:
-Systems that support old content, and a team that puts an effort to update said content (in addition to new, such as the wildly popular Palace of the Dead).
-Implementing a class in a patch, as well as many features that WoW try to sell expansions with (Gold Saucer, Chocobo Breeding, Chocobo Battle, Housing, Apartments, PotD, Triple Triad, Racing, etc. Even Blitzball, which they confirmed they are working on (though are having trouble with). Multiple classes in expansions.
-Frequent and high quality content updates (including the previous mentioned)
- Graphics style
- Animations
- Music (mentioning beforehand the unique dungeon and boss music, as well as battle music)
- Massive amounts of cutscenes
- New UI tailored for each class (Stormblood)
- One of the first MMO series on consoles
...And so much more, but I have a text limit.