For not seeming biased, I'll not comment is the opening post.
This is a pretty vauge poll.
Im sure most players would spend money in a cash shop if they thought they were getting a good deal.
Its when the cash shop is a total ripoff that most people go "hell, no!", or if its heavily pay2win. IIRC, Hellgate London now charges you something like $10 for 1 extra skill point, or something retarded like that? Then there are the infamous asian MMOs where you have to pay to get to endgame, for gear/stats. That's no good either.
Cash shops are pretty much the standard way for companies to make money if its going to be a "f2p" game. Given the choice of, say, paying $15 for a monthly subscription (I think WoW costs around that much) and getting nothing but the ability to play the game, or paying an optional $5 per month for some minor ingame bonuses, I think the latter is better for the average player.
With cash shops, a large part of the game gets subsidised by players who go nuts and spend hundreds of dollars on extra stuff, like cosmetic items for 6 alts. If they can afford it, OK, but its kind of problematic if people are spending their entire paycheck on the game. It's a social problem like excessive gambling.
Personally, I look at what im buying. Assuming that I'm heavily invested in this game, I don't mind shelling out some money in a cash shop for it. Could be anything like a permanent character skin that I REALLY want. As long as its reasonably priced and I want it bad enough (like with all consumer items).
I also take into account how long I will actually use the cash shop stuff for. $20-30 to make end game gear sounds a lot to most people, but it's a lot less than typical subscription costs when you take into account you will be using it for a year or more.
I rather just a sub but I will play an MMO with a cash shop if it's fair. GW2 did a good job IMO. BDO made me not even stop to try it for free when I had a chance. End game: I support all games I play with my cash. It's up to them how that happens. Be it sub or cash shop, you get greedy or heavy handed I'm gone.
I rather just a sub but I will play an MMO with a cash shop if it's fair. GW2 did a good job IMO. BDO made me not even stop to try it for free when I had a chance. End game: I support all games I play with my cash. It's up to them how that happens. Be it sub or cash shop, you get greedy or heavy handed I'm gone.
Cool. Then you'll be OK with storage expansions and unbreakable items in Pantheon's store when it opens. I thought so.
No edit on polls.......To make matters worst, I have to vote a positive on something I feel strongly against just to see the results...... Anyway have fun with this
Pro tip, right beside vote it says view results, click that... no need to vote to see them....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And to counter the typical argument no it does not balance people with alot of playtime and those with little... because the people with alot of playtime typically also drop huge $$$ into the game to get even more advantage.
devs need to realize if you actually make a good game for once people will gladly sub for it. Cashshops are just a scam to get people to pay more to enjoy the game to its fullest.
I agree, that argument doesn't pan out as those who are willing or can play many hours per day are also going to want to be as competitive as possible so they will drop as much money as they can in order to win.
I also agree that people will pay a sub if the game is good.
Part of it being good is having events or enough updates so that people feel they are getting their money's worth.
Again, though, this always seems to come up in the context of this conversation, but people talk as though P2W is rampant, when it really isn't. In the scenario of "end game", there are few games where spending any money, let alone $15 a month, would get you any significant advantage over other players. It's probably a handful of games where this idea of paying for an advantage is actually a "real thing".
To answer the poll, if I'm actively playing a game, I will pay for it. If it offers a sub, I'll do that, if it doesn't, then I'll buy something through the cash shop. However, the later almost never turns out to be as regular as monthly.
Part of the problem is what people consider "advantage".
some people think that someone buying a little more bag space is "advantage".
I always think of "pay to win" as buying power. Better weapons, armor, skills, etc. within a competitive situation.
I believe there are games that allow this but none that really appear on this site (or at least often).
Depending on the game, bag space is a huge advantage.
PoE Stash tabs is about as P2W as you can get
/s (but no seriously, stash tabs are pretty crucial if you want to go far in that game)
Yeh, I'd see if you can get this thread locked as its pointless without at least one "no" answer.
For example, I've never spent money in an MMO cash shop and likely never will. If I need an item in a cash shop (e.g. permanent stat boosts), chances are it is pay 2 win and so I'll quit. And if I don't need the item (e.g. cosmetics), then the items have no value so why would I spend money?
There is rarely anything I want, however. I have spent hundreds on server transfers, race changes, and other character services in WoW. Bought some in-game cash tokens in WoW and ArcheAge.
I really wanted to spend money to buy housing in ESO, but because of the lack of functionality I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Also, if ESO had better costumes, I would buy those. The best one for me now is in a lock box and I won't gamble for it. I will either wait for it to come back to the crown store or just not get it. Can't find any awesome mage robes in the crown store. Why is that so hard? (BDO has some awesome ones, for example, but I don't really play BDO right now.) But I have bought some xp scrolls, race changes, and character services like in WoW.
Well, if it is a cash shop game and I am enjoying the game then "yes" of course I do. These companies aren't making games because they love us. They want to have jobs, keep the company going.
If I'm playing a game then it's worth my money. If I'm not willing to support the businesses/products/services in my life then I don't use them.
To that end, if a game is not worth my money then it's certainly not worth my time which is far more valuable to me.
This is how I feel as well, as I see it, if it is worth it to play the game, then it is worth it to support the game.
To that end, a Cash Shop, allows me to support the game on my terms, Normally I am firmly against the idea of Free2play games, as that too often leads people to feel that they should get everything for free.
That idea simply does not work, a game company needs to make money on their product, and a cash shop is a very easy way for them to allow people to test their game to see if it is worth supporting.
For me, I always vote with my wallet and my time.
If I am having fun, I gladly pay into the game, I'll use their cash shop, i'll sub, I'll buy the expansions, if I am having fun, then it's worth the money to me.
If I am not having fun,I move on to some other game, and spend my money there.
To me, I am not going to invest hours of my life into a game I don't feel is worth a dollar of my time.
For not seeming biased, I'll not comment is the opening post.
I don't mind putting money into a game or cash shop if they do it properly and actually listen so many game companies out here that make really bad MMO's and can't improve.
Revelation Online for example was such a waste...
And the only MMO's IMO somewhat worth playing now are.
. Guild Wars 2 . Final Fantasy XIV (If people like it) . ESO . DOTA 2, League, Smite, HOTS, Over Watch.. . Dark Fall . Planet Side 2 but gets boring very shortly.
This doesn't include maybe Crow Fall, Dauntless, or Ashes OF Creation only the ones worth playing because every other MMO sucks IMO i've tried everything and there is just no way I can stand the cash shop, or the companies.
DCUO, for Example could have made the game great by allowing people to change powers any time within their base / house as a premium member (Instead they make it Pay 2 Enjoy have to hop between 12+ Different characters to try and use all powers in the game rather than different load-outs.
APB Reloaded, a Game With Potential before Gamers First took it over.
Wild Star, Bad Character Models, Decision to use classes are a thing of the past.
Arche Age, Ruined by XL Games & Trion.
This is just a few examples of what I can say has been a major failure in MMO history.
I hope this poll is limited to only 1% of this community, since only 1% of a F2Ps community spends money in the cash shop.
What do I tend to buy? Bank slots, character slots, inventory unlocks. When I played Guild Wars I constantly got comments on my gear, because I didn't buy the sexy "cosmetic" gear. I was saving up resources in my extra bank slots to craft. Even though I bought every GW expansion, I still stopped playing before I made the gear.
I still haven't found a F2P or B2P MMO worth the time or effort. Closest have been WURM and Fallen Earth.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Won't vote since the poll is broken but yes, I don't mind spending a few bucks here and there. I love people playing PoE for 500 + hours but not spending a penny because cash shops are a 'cancer.'
Besides that word being used in an offensive and ridiculous way it also shows the real problem, people wanting everything for nothing. You don't take a stand, you are being cheap hiding behind reasons like 'p2w' because you decided that everything not achievable in game is winning. You call the prices outrageous because when you have spend 500+ hours in game for free spending 20 dollars on stash tabs is 'expensive.' You talk about double dipping for profits but the great old games had a 1) box price 2) monthly sub and 3) expansion fee, the bastards. You call it unfair because you have to serously grind to get the same result but whine about instant gratification.
There are exceptions of course but the argument is beyond silly, and statements like 'I won't play MMOs with a cash shop' simply mean you won't play MMOs at all anymore. Except Ryzom, which has no cash shop, have fun there!
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Won't vote since the poll is broken but yes, I don't mind spending a few bucks here and there. I love people playing PoE for 500 + hours but not spending a penny because cash shops are a 'cancer.'
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I have to agree, it never ceases to amaze me, how people can invest hundreds and in some cases, thousands of hours of their life into a game, and not be willing to support the game fiscally.
Never quite understood that mentality to be honest, which is why Cash shops are also a good thing, it shows who supports the game, gives them something to show off, or have, in return for their investment into keeping the game running.
I also support the premise of B2P games like GW2, as that often removes all the people that come into the game expecting everything for free.
There have been some other payment models, while shrewd, also work, like for example, W40K Eternal Crusade, with their "Free to Waaaggh" where you progress at 1/3 the rate of a paid player (Kinda wish they had limited the F2P Races to Ork only as well), but the progress is tracked, so if at any time you go premium (20 dollars spent at the cash shop) you get all the progress you have banked instantly applied to your account.
Other games like DDO, sell small scale expansion packs, they call "Modules", as well as a cash shop, and full blown expansions.
Black Gold, had a convoluted clash shop system, where you needed to pay money to save your game progress or something silly, while I enjoyed the game, I just could not get into that system and ended up quitting the game over that issue.
So while cash shops are not a bad thing, some have been done much better then others, and often the quality of how well the cash shop is handled, is often indicative of how much attention to detail the developers have spent to their game overall. As such, good quality games, often have good quality cash shops. If the cash shop looks like a hack job, chances are.. so is the rest of the game.
Yeah i pay them a fast forward to the garbage bin then delete the garbage. I can play not only the mmorpg i consider the best of all time but my favorite mmorpg for free,so why would i pay into some cash shop in some rinky dink sub par game. I think the only type cash shop i would accept is pay as you play with a limit of 20 a month.So 5 bucks a week or 15 a month.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
This is a pretty vauge poll.
Im sure most players would spend money in a cash shop if they thought they were getting a good deal.
Its when the cash shop is a total ripoff that most people go "hell, no!", or if its heavily pay2win. IIRC, Hellgate London now charges you something like $10 for 1 extra skill point, or something retarded like that? Then there are the infamous asian MMOs where you have to pay to get to endgame, for gear/stats. That's no good either.
Cash shops are pretty much the standard way for companies to make money if its going to be a "f2p" game. Given the choice of, say, paying $15 for a monthly subscription (I think WoW costs around that much) and getting nothing but the ability to play the game, or paying an optional $5 per month for some minor ingame bonuses, I think the latter is better for the average player.
With cash shops, a large part of the game gets subsidised by players who go nuts and spend hundreds of dollars on extra stuff, like cosmetic items for 6 alts. If they can afford it, OK, but its kind of problematic if people are spending their entire paycheck on the game. It's a social problem like excessive gambling.
Personally, I look at what im buying. Assuming that I'm heavily invested in this game, I don't mind shelling out some money in a cash shop for it. Could be anything like a permanent character skin that I REALLY want. As long as its reasonably priced and I want it bad enough (like with all consumer items).
I also take into account how long I will actually use the cash shop stuff for. $20-30 to make end game gear sounds a lot to most people, but it's a lot less than typical subscription costs when you take into account you will be using it for a year or more.
I rather just a sub but I will play an MMO with a cash shop if it's fair. GW2 did a good job IMO. BDO made me not even stop to try it for free when I had a chance. End game: I support all games I play with my cash. It's up to them how that happens. Be it sub or cash shop, you get greedy or heavy handed I'm gone.
Cool. Then you'll be OK with storage expansions and unbreakable items in Pantheon's store when it opens. I thought so.
~~ postlarval ~~
Pro tip, right beside vote it says view results, click that... no need to vote to see them....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This ^^^^^^^^
Depending on the game, bag space is a huge advantage.
PoE Stash tabs is about as P2W as you can get
/s (but no seriously, stash tabs are pretty crucial if you want to go far in that game)
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Value of items is in the eye of the beholder.
Yes - if there is something I want to buy.
There is rarely anything I want, however. I have spent hundreds on server transfers, race changes, and other character services in WoW. Bought some in-game cash tokens in WoW and ArcheAge.
I really wanted to spend money to buy housing in ESO, but because of the lack of functionality I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Also, if ESO had better costumes, I would buy those. The best one for me now is in a lock box and I won't gamble for it. I will either wait for it to come back to the crown store or just not get it. Can't find any awesome mage robes in the crown store. Why is that so hard? (BDO has some awesome ones, for example, but I don't really play BDO right now.) But I have bought some xp scrolls, race changes, and character services like in WoW.
This is how I feel as well, as I see it, if it is worth it to play the game, then it is worth it to support the game.
To that end, a Cash Shop, allows me to support the game on my terms, Normally I am firmly against the idea of Free2play games, as that too often leads people to feel that they should get everything for free.
That idea simply does not work, a game company needs to make money on their product, and a cash shop is a very easy way for them to allow people to test their game to see if it is worth supporting.
For me, I always vote with my wallet and my time.
If I am having fun, I gladly pay into the game, I'll use their cash shop, i'll sub, I'll buy the expansions, if I am having fun, then it's worth the money to me.
If I am not having fun,I move on to some other game, and spend my money there.
To me, I am not going to invest hours of my life into a game I don't feel is worth a dollar of my time.
I don't mind putting money into a game or cash shop if they do it properly and actually listen so many game companies out here that make really bad MMO's and can't improve.
Revelation Online for example was such a waste...
And the only MMO's IMO somewhat worth playing now are.
. Guild Wars 2
. Final Fantasy XIV (If people like it)
. ESO
. DOTA 2, League, Smite, HOTS, Over Watch..
. Dark Fall
. Planet Side 2 but gets boring very shortly.
This doesn't include maybe Crow Fall, Dauntless, or Ashes OF Creation only the ones worth playing because every other MMO sucks IMO i've tried everything and there is just no way I can stand the cash shop, or the companies.
DCUO, for Example could have made the game great by allowing people to change powers any time within their base / house as a premium member (Instead they make it Pay 2 Enjoy have to hop between 12+ Different characters to try and use all powers in the game rather than different load-outs.
APB Reloaded, a Game With Potential before Gamers First took it over.
Wild Star, Bad Character Models, Decision to use classes are a thing of the past.
Arche Age, Ruined by XL Games & Trion.
This is just a few examples of what I can say has been a major failure in MMO history.
What do I tend to buy? Bank slots, character slots, inventory unlocks. When I played Guild Wars I constantly got comments on my gear, because I didn't buy the sexy "cosmetic" gear. I was saving up resources in my extra bank slots to craft. Even though I bought every GW expansion, I still stopped playing before I made the gear.
I still haven't found a F2P or B2P MMO worth the time or effort. Closest have been WURM and Fallen Earth.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Besides that word being used in an offensive and ridiculous way it also shows the real problem, people wanting everything for nothing. You don't take a stand, you are being cheap hiding behind reasons like 'p2w' because you decided that everything not achievable in game is winning. You call the prices outrageous because when you have spend 500+ hours in game for free spending 20 dollars on stash tabs is 'expensive.' You talk about double dipping for profits but the great old games had a 1) box price 2) monthly sub and 3) expansion fee, the bastards. You call it unfair because you have to serously grind to get the same result but whine about instant gratification.
There are exceptions of course but the argument is beyond silly, and statements like 'I won't play MMOs with a cash shop' simply mean you won't play MMOs at all anymore. Except Ryzom, which has no cash shop, have fun there!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I have to agree, it never ceases to amaze me, how people can invest hundreds and in some cases, thousands of hours of their life into a game, and not be willing to support the game fiscally.
Never quite understood that mentality to be honest, which is why Cash shops are also a good thing, it shows who supports the game, gives them something to show off, or have, in return for their investment into keeping the game running.
I also support the premise of B2P games like GW2, as that often removes all the people that come into the game expecting everything for free.
There have been some other payment models, while shrewd, also work, like for example, W40K Eternal Crusade, with their "Free to Waaaggh" where you progress at 1/3 the rate of a paid player (Kinda wish they had limited the F2P Races to Ork only as well), but the progress is tracked, so if at any time you go premium (20 dollars spent at the cash shop) you get all the progress you have banked instantly applied to your account.
Other games like DDO, sell small scale expansion packs, they call "Modules", as well as a cash shop, and full blown expansions.
Black Gold, had a convoluted clash shop system, where you needed to pay money to save your game progress or something silly, while I enjoyed the game, I just could not get into that system and ended up quitting the game over that issue.
So while cash shops are not a bad thing, some have been done much better then others, and often the quality of how well the cash shop is handled, is often indicative of how much attention to detail the developers have spent to their game overall. As such, good quality games, often have good quality cash shops. If the cash shop looks like a hack job, chances are.. so is the rest of the game.
I can play not only the mmorpg i consider the best of all time but my favorite mmorpg for free,so why would i pay into some cash shop in some rinky dink sub par game.
I think the only type cash shop i would accept is pay as you play with a limit of 20 a month.So 5 bucks a week or 15 a month.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Oh, also I put money into a Crowd Fund, you're welcome
Also, I funded the newest RPG's , you're welcome