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What's With Warhammer? - Garrett Fuller at MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328
    @cameltosis

    I think the reason they keep putting out new books and models and rules, is to keep people buying more stuff, after all, they are there to sell stuff. I think you are correct tho, this keeps making unbalanced games, and ends up costing their players soo much money, they a lot of people drop off. I had the same thing happen, as I got involved with WH40K due to chaos, as I enjoy modding the models, but, the total lack of balance to the game made trying to play on the table top an exercise in frustration, as I would go from fielding an OP army one edition to having a total pile of crap the next. It simply was not worth trying to play the game, or keep up. While I still enjoy modding and painting a model from time to time, but when it comes to playing the game itself, DoW made a better balanced game then GW has put out, and even WH40KEC, is closer on the fairness of the fights.
  • Shana77Shana77 Member UncommonPosts: 279
    Warhammer MMO was awesome in the first tier zones but terrible in the second and third. An extra year of fine tuning to get the entire game more in the style of the first zone, perhaps by making the experience more compact, and a better graphics engine would have made this the ultimate pvp experience ever.
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    That Warhammer MMO was the most fun I ever had in PvP and this is from a person who loves PvE. But every iteration of the game seems fraught with problems. It's like it's cursed or something.
    You're talking about the Warhammer MMO they shut down a year or two ago?  Yeah, unbelievably fun in PVP.  Loved it.  I can't remember why I didn't stick with that game...
  • G3NexisG3Nexis Member UncommonPosts: 50
    I don't think any game's PvP has been as fun for me as Warhammers was. Not saying other games are crap I just always thought Warhammer did their PvP system right. It's too bad the PvE was somewhat lacking but I did not play Warhammer for the PvE so no biggie.


  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,207
    Shana77 said:
    Warhammer MMO was awesome in the first tier zones but terrible in the second and third. An extra year of fine tuning to get the entire game more in the style of the first zone, perhaps by making the experience more compact, and a better graphics engine would have made this the ultimate pvp experience ever.
    The MMO has some great moments in it but it was deeply flawed:

    • Massive vertical progression, resulting in ridiculous power gaps - you couldn't see this in lower tiers as much, but once you reached 40 it really killed the endgame pvp. I think I was R40RR32ish when I first hit cap (i leveled with a mix of pvp and pve), but anyone RR50+ was just unkillable to me. I remember some of my early guild raid nights, we'd head out with 12-15 of us. Occasionally, we'd run into a RR80 toon and some of them could wipe our entire raid because they were so overpowered. 
    • PvE sucked - basically no tactics for anything, just tank and spank and overheal everything. But, due to power gaps, success was all about being geared, rather than being good. 
    • RNG - I know they improved it later on, but for ages you could only get endgame pvp gear by getting lucky during keep takes and winning a bag, then getting lucky again with the bag containing the right piece. At endgame, I was consistently 10 ranks higher than my gear due to bad luck on drops
    • Poor balance - the game was only balanced for group vs group. It meant that at endgame, you had to be grouped or you were just gonna get stomped. Don't get me wrong, premade vs premade in scenarios kicked ass, as did raid vs raid in the pvp lakes, but the instant you didn't have a group you were just fodder. 
    The warhammer MMO would have been the perfect game for horizontal progression. They could have made a truly kick ass pvp game if they had done so. But, the way they made their game, it really only appealled to organised pvpers. The first 6 months of the game were a nightmare for me as a guild leader as the dropout rate was atrocious. So many people constantly leaving the game, never to return. Recruitment was impossible, so guild merges were the order of the day if you wanted to stay alive. 
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    I remember some really fun siege defenses, that lasted hours, punting people off the keep.  Good times...so much fun.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,969
    My sole experience with Warhammer was Warhammer Online. That game was hyped to the max, and promised to deliver something fresh and new. It completely failed to do that. I was bored of that game within weeks.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • wiscelwiscel Member UncommonPosts: 19
    I tried many Warhammer/W40K games. The best are Warhammer Online (now Return Of Reckoning, still play it everyday :-) ), Dawn Of War (1st series), Dark Omen, Warhammer Total War, Rite Of War, Final Liberation.
    I had so much hope for Dark Millennium, too bad it was never released. So disappointed in Chaos Gate and Eternal Crusade.
  • HolyTrevorHolyTrevor Member UncommonPosts: 54
    loved the look of dark millennium, even if it had lost the mmo aspect i still think it could have been an interesting game
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 847


    That Warhammer MMO was the most fun I ever had in PvP and this is from a person who loves PvE. But every iteration of the game seems fraught with problems. It's like it's cursed or something.



    I hear you. That is the only fantasy based PVP I have ever enjoyed. I haven't like any PVP since.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,208


    That Warhammer MMO was the most fun I ever had in PvP and this is from a person who loves PvE. But every iteration of the game seems fraught with problems. It's like it's cursed or something.



    I hear you. That is the only fantasy based PVP I have ever enjoyed. I haven't like any PVP since.

    So, you enjoyed an imbalanced massive PvP that was all about staggers and massive AoEs with next to no rhyme or reason to it that mostly served itself(was very poorly linked to other parts of game)?

    Good, we shouldn't get too picky, now should we?
  • TheodwulfTheodwulf Member UncommonPosts: 307
    As far as the Table top versions, GW is their own worst enemy. It's an expensive, time consuming hobby that requires others with the same dedication. Every edition changed just enough where you had to rework the models.What a pain.

    I really don't like the setting . Steam punk gadgets coupled with sorcery and a hopeless, everyone is evil world. It's a nonsensical mish mash of stuff. It can be KEWL at times but that's it. The people who live in the Warhammer world are miserable, I wouldn't want to be any of them. Contrast it with an IP like Star Wars to see the difference.

    The MMORPG was an unfinished , imbalanced mess. The Dwarf area was ok and I liked the Sword master, it was a well put together class with a great "Feel".

    The Total War adaption is OK but nothing spectacular.
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,408
    Dawn of War was the first RTS I played and I really enjoyed it a lot. I was very intrigued by how the game played and then I tried other games in the genre but I did poorly in Red Alert and the only other game I could play was Starcraft 2 with any success.
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  • mistmakermistmaker Member UncommonPosts: 314
    warhammer and star wars are such great IPs, they could make better games out of it, if they want.

    would be great if there was a new warhammer or new swg....

    but its all about fast money, so it will not happen. fps, survival, tablet game all cash shop based, this is unfortunately the way to go for easy money with big IPs
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,210
    edited April 2017
    I was actually very excited about Warhammer Online when I first heard about it and watched that snake oil salesman Paul Barnett talk it up.  Then I betaed it. 

    My biggest issue with the game was that the world was not able to inspire me it felt soulless and just put together or rather just created to populate with denizens, it had no life of its own. You know how for instance let's not talk about Everquest since many here may not have played it but World of Warcraft a game most of you would have played how you felt when first came out of that Tomb in Trisfall or saw Teldrassil or the majesty of Mulgore. That was something inside you that told you that you were part of this awesome world. Of course this was in part achieved by Blizzard with their music and atmosphere. Mythic absolutely failed to bring the wonderful life of Warhammer that was so rich and lore filled to fruition. I still bought the game though but the speed in which the game fell to ignominy was astonishing even to me.

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,208
    edited April 2017
    Theodwulf said:
    As far as the Table top versions, GW is their own worst enemy. It's an expensive, time consuming hobby that requires others with the same dedication. Every edition changed just enough where you had to rework the models.What a pain.

    I really don't like the setting . Steam punk gadgets coupled with sorcery and a hopeless, everyone is evil world. It's a nonsensical mish mash of stuff. It can be KEWL at times but that's it. The people who live in the Warhammer world are miserable, I wouldn't want to be any of them. Contrast it with an IP like Star Wars to see the difference.

    The MMORPG was an unfinished , imbalanced mess. The Dwarf area was ok and I liked the Sword master, it was a well put together class with a great "Feel".

    The Total War adaption is OK but nothing spectacular.

    Honestly, I think you haven't found the faction that suits you. Warhammer, Fantasy especially, people are much more realistic than anything apart from Game of Thro(n)es. Now, the circumstances ARE overblown(especially in 40k). But, do keep this in mind, Warhammer mostly talks and shows its Black Fire Passes / Maledors etc(big battles). It could REALLY use the Uncle Ben segment from Tatooine(common, everyday happenings). High Elves in particular are a typical High Fantasy: Swords and Sorcery Good vs Evil. Then there are Wood Elves which are still, kinda Good vs Evil, but much more feral. Bretonnian knightly tales etc. Contrary to what people believe, you don't even need to know the name of Empire's capital, let alone like them.

    But agreed about the TT and how GW handles it all. They really don't know how to handle such a HUGE potential...


    edit: That was what I and many more liked about Fantasy. Apart from the big battles, it was like a more dramatic version of Renaissance period. With Fantasy elements, ofc(Elves, Dwarfs etc). I don't like how Age of Sigmar made Fantasy into just another 40k where EVERYTHING's SUPER COOL and SO EPIC! I mean, it'd work if they made it as a parallel product / piece of lore, but not as a serial. Sorry, GW, but you just put a capacitor in a serial circuit-and we are talking about DIRECT CURRENT! G, F, G! (Morons) 
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 893
    I'd be happy to play a reskinned WoW that was based on 40k. Really liked the public events in WAR. Trend setters.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    edited April 2017
    Grakulen said:
    I'd be happy to play a reskinned WoW that was based on 40k. Really liked the public events in WAR. Trend setters.
    Shame on you ;). We don't need need more reskinned Wow, a Warhammer game should feel like Warhammer.

    And while 40K do have a lot of melee I think a system like it still should have mechanics more fitting to the sci-fi genre then a standard fantasy games mechanics. Also, the group mechanics need to be rather different, 40K is about skirmishes and battles, not 5 heroes going into a dungeon and that takes a rather different approach then tank, spank and healer.

    Here is BTW some nice 40K lore with a bit of humor: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7150533/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2nM1GEllg// They particularly got Papa Smurf right. :)

    WARs public quests were fun if you had the right amount of people around but mixing in GW2s scaling wouldn't hurt.
  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,746
    GW hasn't grown because they overpriced everything. Look to TW2 Warhammer for gaming because that is what it has become. It's a shame. GW has a great world, fantastic books (not that you can afford them anymore... who pays $10 for an eBook?), and good depth. The mini's are overly expensive. They went to plastic (cheaper than metal) but charged the same amount. Their games use to be complete, but the last couple of video games you've had to buy individual race additions to them.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,140
    nastilon said:
    I love warhammer but they killed off warhammer fantasy and basically turned it into warhammer 40k as well.. :( Age of Sigmar is rotten to the core. How can it compare with the old world such as Altdorf, Sylvania, Bretonnia, etc....
    Except for the fact that Age of Sigmar does something that Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000 can't/couldn't do easily, bring in new hobbyists. Simply put, both were and are extremely expensive to start and Games Workshop is providing an alternative method to achieve this goal.

    Age of Sigmar isn't supposed to be for competitive play. It's for those just getting into miniature painting and table top gaming. To say it's rotten to the core would be incorrect, it's an attempt to shed some light for those who are interested into an otherwise expensive hobby.

    In fact, I've finally gone from Warhammer 40,000 to Warhammer Age of Sigmar specifically because it has a significantly larger variety of races and faction combinations by comparison to Warhammer 40,000 while providing a cheaper entry fee.

    Instead of having to spend $400.00 - $500.00 USD to get started with a 1500 point army (which is average for Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000) it allows for someone who's wanting to start by providing a beginners set for $85.00 - $300.00 USD which provides a significantly better value for those new to the game.

    To follow up with the lower cost for beginners, the rules are easier to understand and don't require purchasing an army's rule book to begin playing. You simply need to have access to the internet and/or the ability to print off the 4 page document. This definitely helps to break down one of the biggest entry barriers (the complexity to the rules).

    This is a good direction for Games Workshop and shows that they're attempting to bring in a new generation.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Ikeda said:
    GW hasn't grown because they overpriced everything. Look to TW2 Warhammer for gaming because that is what it has become. It's a shame. GW has a great world, fantastic books (not that you can afford them anymore... who pays $10 for an eBook?), and good depth. The mini's are overly expensive. They went to plastic (cheaper than metal) but charged the same amount. Their games use to be complete, but the last couple of video games you've had to buy individual race additions to them.
    They had megalomania for a long time. And yeah, they have messed things up badly for a rather long time now. Licensing the fantasy RPG tp Fantasy flight game for instance was not a great idea.

    Fun fact: Warcraft were actually made as a Warhammer game originally but GW decided it didn't deserve the IP. We might very well be playing "World of Warhammer" otherwise. They lost a zillion on that discussion.
  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328


    Grakulen said:

    I'd be happy to play a reskinned WoW that was based on 40k. Really liked the public events in WAR. Trend setters.



    I am not sure if I would agree with you on this. While I have not played WoW, so I am not sure how well the game works or how accurate the mechanics would mesh to the way WH40K is laid out, I will say, that Warhammer40K, does not lend itself well to the typical MMO archetype, which typically involves grinding gear and going on an upward power progression.

    The main problem with building a Warhammer40K MMO is that players hard cap pretty quick. To use an Example "Space Marines"

    A Space Marines is going to be equal to almost every other Space Marine, with vary little variance in their physical power, skills and abilities (IE: All Space Marines have a Combat Skill of 4, and a Shooting skill of 4)

    Even their gear will be mainly Identical, with minor variance, IE: Power Armor gives a 4 Armor Defense.

    The other part is that most of their equipment designed to serve a purpose, not simply to make them more powerful, but to make them better suited to do a specific task. IE: Assault, Fast Attack, Heavy Weapons, Etc.

    Even their mounts would be pretty much identical, IE: There is the Generic Space marine Bike.. and the Special Space Marine bike that has two bolters, with no other differences, among them.

    Even Special Characters, are still... largely within the same ranks and powers as everyone else, but have a few unique items, like say "The Blessed Bolter that the Emperor himself touched" and it confers a single re-roll to hit, if you roll a 1. So, yah, special, it's still a bolter.

    Now, while it works for a Table top game, this system of everyone is just a single unit of a greater whole, does not blend well with the generic MMO model and progression set up, as MMO's are all about the individual continuous quest for more power.

    While I would love to see a WH40K MMO, come out, I would want to see it done right, as opposed to just being done. That was what made WH40K Eternal Crusade fail, they rushed the game, and while it has a lot of potential, with so much done right.. there was also so much done wrong.
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