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My Ideas for an MMO (PvE Sandbox with arena PvP)
TarzanGreen
Member UncommonPosts: 27
I have had a dream since probably 8 years old of making a video game. Over time I'll add some more of my ideas here but I want to consider all aspects such as game theory and design principals to looking at what works and doesn't.
Plan to have lots of variety in things people can spend their time doing. Also that it makes sense and is useful. With a decent amount of depth (fishing joke)
(Beekeeping, Fishing, Farming, Many things to gather, Arena PvP, Dungeons, Exciting PvE, Travelling salesman/trader, Crafting, Cooking, Training area, Trading, Player housing, Taming animals and more)
Edit-The PvP only happens in arenas. Out in PvE players can duel each other though.
My idea is that PvP is fought in different arenas and gear will break down after each fight.
Plan to have lots of variety in things people can spend their time doing. Also that it makes sense and is useful. With a decent amount of depth (fishing joke)
(Beekeeping, Fishing, Farming, Many things to gather, Arena PvP, Dungeons, Exciting PvE, Travelling salesman/trader, Crafting, Cooking, Training area, Trading, Player housing, Taming animals and more)
Edit-The PvP only happens in arenas. Out in PvE players can duel each other though.
My idea is that PvP is fought in different arenas and gear will break down after each fight.
- Items could only be repaired by someone who can craft them.
- This would bring PvE together with PvP but they would still be separate. (The open world being pretty much just PvE)
- Would it be just too much of a hassle for the PvP players?
- Could the winner(s) of the match get a free repair ticket?
Post edited by TarzanGreen on
Comments
Firstly, needing a repair after every round of PvP is silly. By necessity, it means enforced downtime in between every match, so it will annoy players and increase queue times. It means paying money to crafters to get your stuff repaired, good for the crafters but bad for the pvpers, who generally struggle with money anyway. It wouldn't bring pvpers and pvers together in any meaningful way, the pvpers is simply buying a service from the crafter.
It is probably worth thinking more about what your idea is trying to achieve.
Are you trying to create a gold sink? Most MMOs suffer terribly from inflation which creates a bad experience for fresh players so more gold sinks are needed, but pvpers are usually some of the poorest on the server due to lack of gold/resources earned from pvp.
Are you trying to generate a strong player economy? Item degradation combined with minimal gear drops is the better solution, as it means 99% of gear used is crafted and needs replacing on a regular basis
Are you trying to promote more socialisation in game by forcing more downtime? If so, arena / battleground pvp already has downtime between matches due to queues, increasing it will just annoy the pvpers.
That is a good point about the crafters getting a big benefit and the PvPrs being starved for money/annoyed. I had worried about this. Maybe a cheap NPC repair shop around where players exit their matches?
What if, win or lose players got enough money after each match to repair their gear. It wouldn't take long and could be done easily in between matches.
I have also wanted to tie in the lore/history with the game mechanics and systems. My plan is to provide quality money sinks and make a strong player economy that would not end up as stagnant as many become.
Id like extremely minimal gear drops, with some skins etc only being craftable.
This of course is all just the tip of the iceberg on my thoughts.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Hmm, that is something I hadn't thought of. Perhaps the buffs would not be an overly large bonus so it wouldn't be absolutely mandatory.
You seriously don't want to punish people for PvPing, you mechanics need to work in both playstyles or your PvP players will gank you (or at least wish they could)
Needing the right crafting skill to repair the item is a good idea though as long as you make mechanics so the smith can't steal the item for you and there is a time limit or happen instantly. I like it, it makes people interacting with actual human beings unless they really hate it and bother to create alts with all the crafting skills.
The alternative would be to add a new crafting skill: Repair. Or you can have 1 for metal stuff and another for cloth, placing wood in either or a third one. It would be a rather useful crafting skill that could earn you some cash, most of the none standard crafting skills tend to be less then good.
In either case: I like how you think and you are onto something but not quite there yet, never punish either PvP or PvE players exclusively. PvPers tend to have a harder time to get gold then PvEers in any case unless you use full loot (and if you do you wont get many players).
I haven't considered criticals yet but that does sound like a good idea, for the items. Would be nice If it could be comparable to regular use degradation. I have been a little wary about making critical hits a focus due to RNG. Capping criticals at 50% seems a little high to me but I do like caps for sure.
Absolutely would have slots for an extra weapon or two. (Another idea is the ranged weapons would have ammo, so you'd want a Merle weapon as well but that's another discussion) Maybe two weapons would last a long play session of 4 hours or so.
My idea for PvP is it would feel just as rewarding as PvE, I've never wanted players to feel punished in a major way. (Still should be aspects of some sort of loss I think).
I had thought of an interface where the player and the person repairing open up a window. The item is dropped on the "Crafting table" and when the repair is complete, the item is returned automatically and the money etc is payed to the player who repaired.
My hope was PvPrs could go out and do PvE to gain the skills needed to repair their own weapons.
Thankyou, I have many many more ideas.
As for repairs, make it faction boosting for using players vs NPCs. Think that would incentivize the community as long as the faction progression/rewards were worth the effort.
Still wish to add some kind of PvP other than just walking up to a guy and dueling.
@infiniti70 Scavenger hunts sound awesome! I have a massive list of fun things and contests but missed that, thanks!
Speaking of factions, I do wish to work that in somehow. I think it can really add good flavour to an mmo if done right. Just adds another layer and variety.
1) Gear deteriorates on use
Every time you use a weapon or get hit by an attack, your gear deteriorates. You'll need to experiment with cut off figures but I'd say you'd want to aim for someone who plays ~20 hours a week to have each piece of gear last minimum 1 month. If you have to replace gear more regularly that, it becomes a ball ache, but once a month for an active player seems reasonable.
2) Gear deteriorates on death (pve only)
Deaths are usually much more common in pvp. I might go weeks without dying in pve (outside of raids) but in pvp I die all the time. If death becomes too punishing, people avoid taking risks which becomes too restrictive for pvp. You might want to turn off death punishment for raids / dungeons too, but that will depend on how your game is balanced.
3) NPC repairs
I would recommend allowing NPCs to repair gear, rather than crafters. This guarantees that you can always get repairs done quickly. However, when you repair an item, it's maximum durability should be reduced so that eventually, the item must be replaced.
e.g. new chest piece has 1000 durability. I pvp my ass off for 2 weeks and it drops to 75/1000, nearly broken. I get it repaired at a npc/terminal, bringing it up to 800, but reducing max to 800. Next repair max becomes 600, then 400, then 200 etc.
You need to make the repair costs quite expensive. If its too cheap then all players will repair everything all the time, but if it is expensive then you'll only repair your best gear, for average / low quality gear you'll be better off buying new stuff from crafters, thus promoting the player economy.
4) All gear crafted
You'll have a much more positive experience is the interaction between combat players and crafters is positive to both sides. In SWG with its player economy and experimentation system, buying new gear was exciting. It was fun hunting down the best goods on the server, or getting in contact with good crafters and ordering gear specifically tailored for you. At the end of the process, the combat player is happy with their new gear, and the crafter is happy with their money.
It makes sense lore-wise that a crit hurts the armor and really hurts and that you could fumble things.
Of course some would complain when they get unlucky and loose a PvP fight due to a fumble (crit fail) or that their opponent crit them but it would make combat rather interesting. There is always a RNG value to damage so if it becomes an issue, lessen the RNG of regular attacks.
I think MMO combat need a mix of RNG, character bonus (like gear and spec) and player skill to be really fun. Too much RNG and it becomes rather predictable, too much character bonus and it will be all about who got the best gear or highest level and too much player skill and you get something close to a FPS game. Just the right balance between the 3 and things will be awesome.
I am looking forward to hearing more of those ideas.
Read about a few good aspects but haven't gone into detail yet. The housing and how the cities work was intriguing to me.
SWG seems like an amazing game at its prime. Just wish I got to play it
1) That idea sounds good. 20 hours a week sounds like a good number and repairing once a month really would not be a bother. I think if repairing is made easy and fast it wouldn't be bad at once a week with heavy use. Perhaps some tasks could deteriorate a little.
2) My plan for PvE is that it will be harder/dangerous than others. It for sure would not be as tranquil as many other games are, I feel.
I want there to be moments where players will **** their pants from fighting creatures, like a Tiger jumps out and attacks. Lots of other possibilities.
Death would not be super punishing so these encounters etc could be more enjoyable I think.
Players shouldn't be on edge all the time but just knowing the environment could kill them and that it won't be a cake walk 100% of the time would add flavour I think.
3) NPCs doing the repairing is something I've thought about today. Adding them in as various factions perhaps. As with the max durability decreasing I like that idea.
- What if it also costs more to repair each time until the item is broken. That would tie in the "make repairs expensive" part I like.
4) I agree with all of that! I'd like some gear/skins to drop from enemies but not a lot. Also have plans for treasure maps etc where gear could be found. By far the main way to get gear would be crafted.
@Loke666 ;
Oh yes, sorry haha. %50 did seem quite high.
I love the idea of a crit hit bypassing the opponents armor. Adding the benefit of damaging armor more with a crit, thereby reducing the durability a lot more does make sense. I like it a lot and lets crits do something other just extra damage which would be cool.
I agree with having a good balance of those three things. That would probably be the hardest thing due to other variables. Going to keep this firmly in mind as I keep designing.
As for the other ideas, I don't think I have enough room haha. Here are a couple for now.
-- Flowers being used to make dye. They grow all around the game world making it look good but also adding another thing for gatheres and crafters.
-- Beekeeping. Bees could be kept in hives and use by players who have farms. They would increase the amount of seeds gained when harvesting and sometimes be the only way someone would get seeds. Also Honey would be a valuable consumable. When a player gains more experience with their hive, they could take them out into the wild to collect super rare pollen etc. Also creating different varietys of Honey that could do different things maybe.
-- Tigers that gain a bit of power as they kill players. A bounty could increase on them and groups could team up to hunt etc.
-- Something like Nicholas The Traveller from GW1. A rotating merchant that changes places often and gives out reward gifts or items etc. Maybe tie it in with Scavenger hunts.
Using flowers, seashells, herbs and minerals to craft dyes is a good idea but don't just focus on flowers. I could also see special flowers that you only could pick during special circumstances (something only flowering in moonlight and grow in a cemetery, of course zombies also "flower" in nighttime cemeteries.), it would both as you say add a bit of useful beauty to the game but also encourage exploration.
As for beekeeping they should also add bonuses to nearby flowers and fruits, honey is not the most important thing you get out of bees.
The tiger thing is nothing new, all mobs in GW got XP for killing players. In fact the only way to get the "reach lvl 20 in pre-searing Ascalon" was to let them level up by killing you first and then kill them for XP. I got to lvl 15 before I tired, it was insanely boring grind but the mechanics in itself ain't bad.
Traveling merchants are always fun, GW2 have a few but they feel less useful.
The "Mom and pop" indie devs were the ones making Wow possible, Wow borrowed their ideas and streamlined them into a good commercial product but without them there would be no Wow. And without new good ideas the genre will slowly fade away into obscurity.
Of course a few companies do have added some new ideas, like Zenimax and Arenanet but it ain't enough for the genre to get a Renaissance.
Yes deffinetly going to have have a lot of reasons to go out into the world. Not just gather at the same 15 Ore nodes a dozen times.
The bees adding bonuses to surrounding plants etc makes sense. The honey would be a nice added useful thing players would get from beekeeping. Also thought that maybe planting some certain flowers (that are a bees favourite) etc could make the bees work faster or give a bit better quality buff.
As for creatures getting exp from killing other players, I haven't considered it yet in a broad sense. I thought of the tigers because I would make it so that they'd roam over a large area. Also they would stalk players making for some **** your pants moments when they attack. I got the idea from the two man eating tigers Chuka and Champawat.
I think i will implement creatures gaining experience for sure, in some way. Love the idea.
I played GW and loved it, about 2500hrs on it. I considered getting Legendary Defender of Ascalon but just wanted to do the other stuff haha. Ecto farming and messing around with a Keystone signet Mesmer in RA.
I also had an idea of using sea glass in some way for making special potion bottles etc