Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Another thing from EQ I don't want to see

24

Comments

  • DagimirDagimir Member UncommonPosts: 20
    I would like to see loot appropriate for the mobs. Creatures not dropping weapons unless they were wielding them. Wolves not dropping body armor, etc.
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Dagimir said:
    I would like to see loot appropriate for the mobs. Creatures not dropping weapons unless they were wielding them. Wolves not dropping body armor, etc.


    I agree.


    Keep loot relevant to the encounter.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,033
    Dagimir said:
    I would like to see loot appropriate for the mobs. Creatures not dropping weapons unless they were wielding them. Wolves not dropping body armor, etc.
    Not that it's an MMO, but I found the Witcher 3 did a good job with this.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    Dagimir said:
    I would like to see loot appropriate for the mobs. Creatures not dropping weapons unless they were wielding them. Wolves not dropping body armor, etc.
    Not that it's an MMO, but I found the Witcher 3 did a good job with this.
    They have already said unless the beast is big enough to eat someone whole, it wont drop that type of loot. Makes sense you would find an awesome sword stuck in the scales of a dragon but not in a wolf. 
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 288
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dagimir said:
    I would like to see loot appropriate for the mobs. Creatures not dropping weapons unless they were wielding them. Wolves not dropping body armor, etc.
    Not that it's an MMO, but I found the Witcher 3 did a good job with this.
    They have already said unless the beast is big enough to eat someone whole, it wont drop that type of loot. Makes sense you would find an awesome sword stuck in the scales of a dragon but not in a wolf. 
    Yeah but that wolf could have some jewelry and small things that it consumed unless it was a real big wolf then maybe that sword. You be surprised what is found in dogs from time to time.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    This is a dangerous road to go down. Making literally every area that's equivalent in levels drop roughly equivalent loot is on the same road that got us to where we are today.

    As other have said, risk/reward is where it's at.  The problem you listed was moreso a matter of that the reward for the dungeons didn't outweigh the risk, which is why the bandit sash camps were always full, because they improperly tuned the reward vs the risk (reasonable reward, almost no risk).

    Again, homogenizing the loot tables just makes thing boring and bad, there is no incentive to go to one place or another because Sword A that drops in Zone X is roughly equivalent to Sword B that drops in Zone Y.

    WoW is a perfect example of this. There are 8 billion swords that have slight variations, one might be .7dps higher and have 2 more str and 2 less sta, or whatever. It's meaningless.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Torval neither wants to cooperatively play in a group nor play a MMO for more than 6 weeks at a time.

    Your arguments falls on deaf ears. ;)
    Wait what? You're speaking for me now? Oh, Is that your weak attempt to rattle me? I hope you have something better than that, like something of substance to add to the conversation.

    Harder to accomplish and challenge in combat aren't the same thing. It's not challenging for the solo player that PC mitigation and damage output doesn't compare to the mob.

    In a PvP battle a level 5 player isn't challenged by a level 50 player.

    Using damage numbers and health to define challenge means that the only thing needed is more people. In modern and old school raid mechanics using dps checks is the lowest common denominator as a challenge.

    Challenge is defined by the need for tactics and strategy in a possible scenario. If the scenario is impossible there is no challenge to it and the outcome is predictable.

    We weren't talking about numbers of mobs or environment before. We were talking about increasing the health and damage of a single mob.
    Actually I was making observations on your gaming preferences based on recent statements by you in these forums.

    He was trying to convince you about grouping and playing long term, neither of which you favor.

    As to the question of challenge from higher DPS of course one solution is to zerg it down, but on some games the diminishing return on rewards makes it undesireable.

    In DAOC my Mentalist can attack a low level green or blue mob and burn it down easily, but for very low reward. 

    Yellow con is more challeging, have to kite them for one cycle, but they normally go down unless the resist RNG demon comes into play.

    Orange cons are dicey, higher resist rates and HPs require several kite runs and every now and then go south, but they provide the maximum experience the cap will allow.

    Reds, well I won't do them solo, resist rates are too high, you end up burning too much mana which you have to sit off to regen and due to exp cap, usually not worth it.

    Every class is different in DAOC, Bards can't beat a blue solo at times, while pet classes such as chanters and necros can solo some low purples in the right scenario. (which they normally only do when powerleveling someone) But they don't kite, pets tank and they melee or blast mob down.

    So I see a lot of combat variance and possibility just from increasing the damage and DPS on a mob.

    As for randomness, if you had seen my guildmates and I struggle with a standard Bard lvl 50 Epic quest last night you'd understand how unpredictable the PVE from a 15 year old game could be.  We wiped hard for over 2 hours, they were still at it when I logged at midnight.

    Was descibed by some in ZAM back in 2003 as "too easy"  Guess we just suck.   ;)
    My gaming preferences, which depend on the game and who I am gaming with, and even more so your fairly rude condescending observations of them are completely irrelevant to the point. You can make underhanded personal jabs to try and strengthen your point but they don't actually matter to the argument.

    Class variance (relative strength/weakness regarding dps, mits, heals, cc, etc) really has nothing to do with scaling either. The post Distopia made about scaling sums it up. Scaling doesn't equate directly to challenge. It could be argued that there is an indirect correlation, but that really applies as it relates to simple dps/hps/mit timer/checks and those are about the crudest form of mechanics checks you can make in an encounter.

    Which goes back to the OPs point that simple mob encounters, single reward commodity based interactions with mobs, are something he would rather not see in Pantheon. Dullahan somehow correlated that with solo people should get bad rewards and groups should get good rewards because group mobs are harder.

    The entire argument revolves around the idea that merely adding health/damage to a mob doesn't make it harder if the group also scales in power the same way. Thus DMKano's point that groups are generally safer, easier, and faster at most everything. If that's true then why is easier play rewarded more if "risk vs reward" is the desired result? The answer I think is because the intended play is group based so you reward players for doing it how you want regardless of whether it's more challenging.
    Its an mmorpg. If you don't want to design the game to be harder by requiring more player, coordination and social interaction, developers should stick to making single player games. That and players have plenty of those games to choose from, we don't need another.

    It's also more than just scaling mobs health up. It can be tons of different mechanics that require group synergies and collaborative efforts, that otherwise cannot be overcome with less people or even multiple people of the same class in many cases.


  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    I like the idea of choices, and not all camps being equal.  
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    The issue of wolves dropping swords is not one that really bothers me. It's a loose thread that, if you tug on it, a million other things that are equally unrealistic in a world teeming with magic come undone also.

    Still, if the dev team has the time, there are work arounds. The wolf's tooth could serve as a dagger. A sword could be found on a humanoid body or chest located in the wolf's lair. And so on. The wolf can also drop useful, and even very valuable, crafting materials. I remember pelts that dropped off lions in EQ that were worth a great deal. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    I'd like to see realistic drops, and more materials and crafted related components from creatures, but it's pretty low on my priority list.


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    I would love to see maps come to the game but done in a way you have to earn them. Maybe make it like a trade skill everyone can have. By exploring the zone and finding important places you can work to creating a map that only you can use. Once you have made a map for that zone a location system could unlock for just that zone that you could share with others who have also made a map of the zone. 
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    I dont want to see gear left on corpses.  Leave xp on the corpse, but not your gear.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    svann said:
    I dont want to see gear left on corpses.  Leave xp on the corpse, but not your gear.
    Im sure I read somewhere that gear drop is a thing. 
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Hrimnir said:

    This is a dangerous road to go down. Making literally every area that's equivalent in levels drop roughly equivalent loot is on the same road that got us to where we are today.

    As other have said, risk/reward is where it's at.  The problem you listed was moreso a matter of that the reward for the dungeons didn't outweigh the risk, which is why the bandit sash camps were always full, because they improperly tuned the reward vs the risk (reasonable reward, almost no risk).

    Again, homogenizing the loot tables just makes thing boring and bad, there is no incentive to go to one place or another because Sword A that drops in Zone X is roughly equivalent to Sword B that drops in Zone Y.

    WoW is a perfect example of this. There are 8 billion swords that have slight variations, one might be .7dps higher and have 2 more str and 2 less sta, or whatever. It's meaningless.


    Nobody said anything about homogenizing loot tables.


    Tradeskill items as drops are one area where the original EQ got things right. Kill spiders for spider silk, kill wolves for wolf pelts, etc.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • jimmywolfjimmywolf Member UncommonPosts: 292
    was nice since i loved making alts could still make PP selling silk  hope they find a way to keep low level crafting mats hold value that an HQ skins was good PP



  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    jimmywolf said:
    was nice since i loved making alts could still make PP selling silk  hope they find a way to keep low level crafting mats hold value that an HQ skins was good PP
    That's achieved by making lower level materials necessary for components in higher level recipes.


  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    I hope I am not putting too much hope into RotF...

    One of the things I did like about EQ was having to run, jump and swim for your life to get to a sweet spot in some zones or dungeons because I KNEW that there was a chance that the piece of armor I really wanted would drop from a specific named mob.

    I WANT to know the name of a weapon or piece of armor. I couldn't tell you the last time I really cared about the name of a sword or bracer besides the quest to get Frostmourne in WoW (probably reminded me of SoulFire from EQ).

    It was such a challenge to get down into Lower Guk as a lower level Paladin, with a cleric and monk buddy. That was more than half the fun. Finding the mob we wanted was a bonus and if it dropped that item we wanted, we were ecstatic! The journey was just as important as the destination/reward. Realizing that it was past sundown when we got to Kithicor Forest and things were not like they were the last time we strolled thru during the afternoon yesterday...

    As others mentioned, some things were easier with the right duo or some combination of classes in a group. The other dynamic they will be throwing at us in RotF is certain magics won't work well in some areas. Who knows what kind of devious twists they will throw at us with those mechanics.

    On risk vs reward, I'd be happy to see some super bad-ass mobs (relative to the zones content) that roam the zone or just a section of it stomping on players not being attentive enough to avoid them. If I remember correctly, Choon and Froon in the Karanas didn't really have great loot other than one time quest item, most higher level people didn't bother with them, so they were generally walking around surprising us noobs.

    As much as I've played solo in most of the last decade of MMO's, I want to see it tougher on most classes to solo very much (I'm perfectly fine with imbalances in certain aspects of classes). That would have a serious impact on how much I could play, I have a family now, but I really believe that was part of the magic of EQ. A great group of guildies is probably going to be as important to me in RotF as some of the loot tables and mechanics.

    Caseyx

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited March 2017
    I agree with the OP,i want a zone to not be a zone but a part a realistic part of the world and not some place that is only there to slap some Boss down for loot.

    On the same subject of zone creation,i find the effort put into zones in most games has been very sub par to looking like complete amateur work.

    A cave with rock textures is that all you have for me?Also i want the option to avoid some creatures,i should not be forced to fight every last mob along the way.
    My preference is very few zones,i want a map to look like a map not a zone.

    Then again i want zero hand holding and no ,markers of any kind,i want to see a npc like i would in the plausible real world,without a yellow exclamation marker over his head.In other words,i want discovery to FEEL like i am discovering on my own and not being hand held to the exact point ,then the game says grats,here is your free xp or whatever.

    Again on the zone idea but not only about zones but mob AI.I never liked the EQ series way of tying several mobs to a string,i want individual AI and various properties like some see better,some hear better,some are deaf,some are blind,some sense if you are injured/bleeding.

    I don't like seeing every last mob is aggro,if mobs are THAT aggressive,then why are they not attacking each other?On that motion,how about an Eco system to boot?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 506
    To me, the OP opinion is way off. 

    I personally want the hotspot. I want zones where loot is good, but the xp might be lesser. I want spots where the XP is awesome and loot is bland.  

    That mentality spaces people out more.

    IF a zone has good loot and good xp... then it is always packed. Even more so if it is an end game zone...


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Mendel said:
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?
    I do too. I'm guessing we'll see this happen to some degree, because one of the races is actually aquatic.


  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Mendel said:
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?

    I used to really like Kedge Keep.  What a pain it was at times, but still very atmospheric - murky and dark.  God help you if you wiped in there :)
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    No "hotspots" are a terrible idea,been there seen it first hand it is nothing but anger and chaos.

    The best idea is to have lots of CHOICE,if one area is too good then everyone will be there,how is that good at all?
    I have actually seen groups call GM's to complain about being there first and that others should leave instead of camping on top of them.

    choice choice and more choice ,in every facet of game design,from choice of weapons,choice of combos,choice of armor,choice of camping spot etc etc.

    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,466
    I used to love making my way to the western waste to get to Dragon Necropolis. At the entrance you would get mobs called phase spiders and every so often one would drop an item called phase spider carapiece. 

    This was a rare chest piece that was great for my Beastlord and sold for good plat in Nexus. 


    As for zones with water well also in Eastern Wastes there was a zone called sirens grotto which had some nice clicky items in. 

    The zone was full of water ways, I have no doubt Pantheon will have similar spots. Thing is I never used to see anyone in both these zones. 




  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,230
    Its not a real choice if all the zones are the same.  Different stuff should drop in different camps, and some camps should be good loot and some camps good xp. 

    Just dont make that so extreme that there is only one camp worth doing.  Im thinking of Najena where there was a line 20 long for a camp for journeyman boots.  Dont do that.
Sign In or Register to comment.