Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Ashes of Creation - Open Questions Are OK - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 32,847
edited March 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageAshes of Creation - Open Questions Are OK - MMORPG.com

Let’s get right to that pink polka dotted elephant in the room, how about that trailer? I’d be remiss if I didn’t say that I’m always conflicted if not saddened by pre-alpha trailers. Why? Over the years, I’ve learned a thing or two from following MMORPG development. One of those things is that pre-alpha, alpha and most of beta are wild cards. By launch it may be that not a thing you saw prior is making the final cut. MMORPGs change as they grow, sometimes substantially, sometimes less so.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Comments

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,257
    edited March 2017
    I'm not terribly concerned about any of this. Most games do both PvE and PvP and always encounter the same issues and there are various ways to address them. I'm sure it'll be fine regardless. Even games people complain about I still find fun.

    I'm far more interested in how combat will be. If it's fun it'll make the game for me. If it's not it'll break the game. It's as simple as that. Everything else I can accept even if it's problematic, but good combat is by far the most important aspect of a game over all else because it's what I'm spending most of my time doing, so it has to be fun.

    Quality action combat is the way to go and TERA has set the bar high. Any game that comes anywhere close is probably doing well. But any game that feels more like a tab target game that's an action combat wannabe is going to be a very fast failure.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,709
    edited March 2017
    Strangely enough, if this turns out to be a full on action combat game I'll lose all interest. (much as I did with TERA)

    Good questions raised, the PVE and PVP delivery is directly tied to the available funding which remains unconfirmed.

    As mentioned most indies focus on one or the other (frequently PVP as its cheaper to deliver) so yes, design choices will have to be made.

    Balancing PVP remains challenging, as this audience will do things both legal and illegal to gain an advantage.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,988
    I go beyond just accepting fun combat,which also happens to be one of my main concerns.

    Devs always say they listen,well i want combat to be the best it can be.Naturally i am not so arrogant to expect an update every time i see a problem or redo combat every second day,i just want to know the developer acknowledged a problem area or a way to improve it.

    I have gamed a very long time and seen how hundreds maybe thousands of developers treat their games,so i know what to expect.
    The reason why pvp and pve cannot co exist is really a very simple one and one that imo is nearly impossible to fix.I say nearly because i know how to make it work but you need restrictions and TWO designs which i highly doubt a developer is willing to put in the effort.

    I will try to keep it simple and short as possible.Pvp MUST 100% the time be balanced and i think i should not have to explain that any further.When you cater combat and character design to pvp you do not allow pve to be the best it can be and imo pve will not even be very good let the best it can be.The difference is that PVE does not need to be balanced and i hope i don't hav to write 5 paragraphs to explain that reason either.

    So long story short is that you need a set of pvp code and a set of pve code where characters and combat design is different from one another.Trying to do it any other way is just a lazy half assed attempt and will NOT allow pve to flourish.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290
    Good comments guys, appreciate them.
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,948
    Mixed open world pvp doesn't really work that well for me. It's either pvp free or not. I've never seen a mix work really well and if there is pvp, then it's pvp. A little yeast raises the whole batch of dough. Eating the yeast free parts becomes a lot harder after that.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Torval said:
    Mixed open world pvp doesn't really work that well for me. It's either pvp free or not. I've never seen a mix work really well and if there is pvp, then it's pvp. A little yeast raises the whole batch of dough. Eating the yeast free parts becomes a lot harder after that.
    Great ... now I'm craving some sourdough.  O.o
  • wormedwormed Member UncommonPosts: 467

    Kyleran said:

    Strangely enough, if this turns out to be a full on action combat game I'll lose all interest. (much as I did with TERA)



    Good questions raised, the PVE and PVP delivery is directly tied to the available funding which remains unconfirmed.



    As mentioned most indies focus on one or the other (frequently PVP as its cheaper to deliver) so yes, design choices will have to be made.



    Balancing PVP remains challenging, as this audience will do things both legal and illegal to gain an advantage.



    Did you lose interest in TERA because of combat or because it's a monotonous, tedious game that ended up being extremely boring? The combat is the only element of that game that is far superior to any MMORPG out there.
  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 934
    I didn't see one game that substantially changed between beta and launch. Even the first year was usually almost the same. Heck, i played Tabula Rasa in beta, and then again right before it got shut down, and i only noticed a few things, that may be important when you are involved with the game, but it wasn't like "woah, they changed everything" or such.

    And i can't understand how people cite TERA for good combat. It was an attempt to not do tab-targetting, but an attempt is not enough to be hold up as the holy grail, you have to actually make it good, and TERA wasn't good.

    Normal mobs are jokes like almost everywhere, and the BAMs only required you to kite it. And attack animations still made you stop. I'd say the combat in Neverwinter is actually better. But so far, nothing tops Vindictus.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Anireth said:
    I didn't see one game that substantially changed between beta and launch. Even the first year was usually almost the same. Heck, i played Tabula Rasa in beta, and then again right before it got shut down, and i only noticed a few things, that may be important when you are involved with the game, but it wasn't like "woah, they changed everything" or such.

    And i can't understand how people cite TERA for good combat. It was an attempt to not do tab-targetting, but an attempt is not enough to be hold up as the holy grail, you have to actually make it good, and TERA wasn't good.

    Normal mobs are jokes like almost everywhere, and the BAMs only required you to kite it. And attack animations still made you stop. I'd say the combat in Neverwinter is actually better. But so far, nothing tops Vindictus.
    Neverwinter combat was probably better now that I think about it.
  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

    Anireth said:

    I didn't see one game that substantially changed between beta and launch. Even the first year was usually almost the same. Heck, i played Tabula Rasa in beta, and then again right before it got shut down, and i only noticed a few things, that may be important when you are involved with the game, but it wasn't like "woah, they changed everything" or such.



    And i can't understand how people cite TERA for good combat. It was an attempt to not do tab-targetting, but an attempt is not enough to be hold up as the holy grail, you have to actually make it good, and TERA wasn't good.



    Normal mobs are jokes like almost everywhere, and the BAMs only required you to kite it. And attack animations still made you stop. I'd say the combat in Neverwinter is actually better. But so far, nothing tops Vindictus.



    Totally agree, Vidictus combat is stupid fun on an amazing level.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,613
    Age of Wushu
  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,290

    Anireth said:

    I didn't see one game that substantially changed between beta and launch. Even the first year was usually almost the same. Heck, i played Tabula Rasa in beta, and then again right before it got shut down, and i only noticed a few things, that may be important when you are involved with the game, but it wasn't like "woah, they changed everything" or such.



    And i can't understand how people cite TERA for good combat. It was an attempt to not do tab-targetting, but an attempt is not enough to be hold up as the holy grail, you have to actually make it good, and TERA wasn't good.



    Normal mobs are jokes like almost everywhere, and the BAMs only required you to kite it. And attack animations still made you stop. I'd say the combat in Neverwinter is actually better. But so far, nothing tops Vindictus.



    Hurm, in my experience games changed a lot, usually because they hit a wall, had to strip out a mechanic and replace it. In fact, even from open beta to launch a month later I've seen games substantially change - often at the very last minute.
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,257
    I wasn't as huge a fan of things like Vindictus because it doesn't work well with trinity combat roles and it's also heavy on the combo's. I'm a fan of hotbar combat and healer/tank/dps roles, but I just want targeting and skill design to be more action combat to allow for both more freedom and also more skill. But I don't like games that go too far astray from the standard ideas.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,988
    edited March 2017
    Here is the problem i think many forget..

    If you have to manually aim to heal a fellow player,would that not be extremely cumbersome to just plain not work well at all?
    So the only way it works then is if you have ideas like GW2 "oh god no" .This would also mean the game will likely NOT be group focused at all but simply have a group flag similar to most other poorly designed games with grouping.
    So then if there is no need to manually heal a fellow player,it must be solo design focused,meaning no need for grouping,so then it becomes Wow 2.0,99% soloing until instance boss fights.

    I just hope this game has it's Own identity and does not end up GW2 2.0 or WOW 2.0 because either design would leave me running for the exits.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 1,989
    Quit crying for action combat. Its not going to happen. They are going with Tab Targeting with more of a mobile combat system. So players do not have to stand in 1 place and hit their rotations, you will tab target and be using abilities.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    danwest58 said:
    Quit crying for action combat. Its not going to happen. They are going with Tab Targeting with more of a mobile combat system. So players do not have to stand in 1 place and hit their rotations, you will tab target and be using abilities.
    Sounds good. So something like GW2 but more "role" based?
    ....
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,988
    I feel tab targeting i the proper way to go and i am not going to explain why ...again,takes too long.
    I surely hope it is not a rotation game but has enough abilities/spells to THINK alongside the action.

    Having thought a lot about all ideas,i feel having players move is a good idea but i don't want to see constant strafing and spamming combat.I do not like sloppy combat,i like it to be organized and compact,that is why i like having a tank control hate,to the best of his/her ability.


    Again i am not going to explain how to do the whole combat design with formulas but i will just say that the team needs to think it out very carefully and not just think  "oh that idea looks cool,let's do it".

    Example "TIMERS"
    Very important to get timers right and each and every spell/ability needs it's own timer,NONE of that lazy global timer crap,i see so many lazy ass devs use.So you have hate meters and they NEED to diminish over time,so it is a GROUP effort to control hate and not steal it away from the tank,that means NO spamming.

    delay...weapons should vary,spells should vary,again no global timers on delay.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    Wizardry said:
    I feel tab targeting i the proper way to go and i am not going to explain why ...again,takes too long.
    I surely hope it is not a rotation game but has enough abilities/spells to THINK alongside the action.

    Having thought a lot about all ideas,i feel having players move is a good idea but i don't want to see constant strafing and spamming combat.I do not like sloppy combat,i like it to be organized and compact,that is why i like having a tank control hate,to the best of his/her ability.


    Again i am not going to explain how to do the whole combat design with formulas but i will just say that the team needs to think it out very carefully and not just think  "oh that idea looks cool,let's do it".

    Example "TIMERS"
    Very important to get timers right and each and every spell/ability needs it's own timer,NONE of that lazy global timer crap,i see so many lazy ass devs use.So you have hate meters and they NEED to diminish over time,so it is a GROUP effort to control hate and not steal it away from the tank,that means NO spamming.

    delay...weapons should vary,spells should vary,again no global timers on delay.

    Why?
    ....
  • majesticheramajestichera Member CommonPosts: 2
    how do I obtain a beta key for ashes of creation?
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 1,989
    YashaX said:
    danwest58 said:
    Quit crying for action combat. Its not going to happen. They are going with Tab Targeting with more of a mobile combat system. So players do not have to stand in 1 place and hit their rotations, you will tab target and be using abilities.
    Sounds good. So something like GW2 but more "role" based?
    Yep.  Just you dont just focus on healing yourself like in GW2.  Every Role will have a strength and weakness 
  • majesticheramajestichera Member CommonPosts: 2
    I come from playing many years on a mmorpg game and there is always different opinions on what people like and important to seperate these or half the player base will lose interest. some love pvp type and some love more quest dugeon type others crafting. it is important to be successful in the areas without throughing these people together if they do not wish it. i saw this cause problem again and again
Sign In or Register to comment.