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Chronciles of Elyria - Not Pay to Win

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,849
    Termii said:



    ...

    Furthermore, king may be a buyable title, but is still below Emperor(the person who unifies the whole continent)=highest noble titles possible. 

    ....
    Ah, now it becomes clearer !

    I guess you'd have to be king to be able to compete for the emperor position, I see now why some people are willing to pay $10K for a massive head start in that race, lol
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    edited March 2017
      In this game, some people will be going for their own Kingdoms, sure, but not everyone obviously.  Not everyone gets to be the hero or the king.
    exactly.  just the ones that give them thousands of dollars will.

      you really don't see an issue with the viability of any population at all in this game?
    In a normal game where your characters are eternal, yes this would be a huge problem.  People shouldn't be able to start a game as King and remain there for the entirety of the game without any possibility of losing their station or their posessions.  But in a game where characters all have a fixed life expectancy?  A game where you can lose everything you have?  No, I don't think it's a big deal.

    I do understand why a lot of people have a problem with this.  In other games, like Shroud of the Avatar for instance, I also have a problem with the buying of status with real money.  But in a game where those purchases can be lost, where they don't have permanency ... I think it just makes the game more interesting.  Can you imagine deposing a King who paid $10,000 for their station when you only invested $50 into the game?  How satisfying would that be?!!  Probably a lot more satisfying than taking down a NPC raid boss, I'd imagine.
  • RasiemRasiem Member UncommonPosts: 316
    edited March 2017
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

      I understand where your coming from but you actually listed the reason its not P2W remember this is a totally player driven game and the people buying in understand they can lose everything at anytime but tis the fact there paying to basically get the game started. Its not P2W because after launch and correct me if im wrong, you cannot buy kingdoms and titles anymore. Honestly what worries me are hackers I think there needs to be some real next level defense for this game.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,643
    Rasiem said:
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

      I understand where your coming from but you actually listed the reason its not P2W remember this is a totally player driven game and the people buying in understand they can lose everything at anytime but tis the fact there paying to basically get the game started. Its not P2W because after launch and correct me if im wrong, you cannot buy kingdoms and titles anymore. Honestly what worries me are hackers I think there needs to be some real next level defense for this game.
    So your saying it's not P2W because you can only P2W before they launch the game...

    Makes total sense now!

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  • luclinraiderluclinraider Member UncommonPosts: 86
    LoL!

    A Cash shop with a few minor convinece items like Rev Online hits and everyone screams P2W.

    Then there's this garbage, with the devs flat out saying "We don't see a problem with giving high donating players GM accounts". And people try to defend it. You can literally buy a GM account, allowing you to spawn anything you want....it doesn't get much more p2w than that.

    Sorry....but your fanboi is showing.
  • KrynKryn Member UncommonPosts: 172
    In my eyes its P2W.  No amount of squabbling will change my mind.  I won't even try to change yours because frankly, I don't care.
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112
    People just argue semantics like it proves something.

    I suppose the most fair interpretation of the P2W aspects of CoE would be better labeled as, "Pay to have a huge advantage over everyone else when the game first starts".

    See, the thing is, sometimes having a huge starting advantage puts you in a position that makes it difficult to dislodge you from power. Maybe there is no way to "win" which all the fanbois keep emphasizing, but I'm positive you can sure as hell dominate everybody else for the entirety of the "story", or at least until the game is shutdown prematurely.
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    Rasiem said:
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

      I understand where your coming from but you actually listed the reason its not P2W remember this is a totally player driven game and the people buying in understand they can lose everything at anytime but tis the fact there paying to basically get the game started. Its not P2W because after launch and correct me if im wrong, you cannot buy kingdoms and titles anymore. Honestly what worries me are hackers I think there needs to be some real next level defense for this game.
    that p2win but only curently !! they lock the p2win after releases

    thanks make everything okay now
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 2,745
    edited March 2017
    genaknosc said:
    People just argue semantics like it proves something.

    I suppose the most fair interpretation of the P2W aspects of CoE would be better labeled as, "Pay to have a huge advantage over everyone else when the game first starts".

    See, the thing is, sometimes having a huge starting advantage puts you in a position that makes it difficult to dislodge you from power. Maybe there is no way to "win" which all the fanbois keep emphasizing, but I'm positive you can sure as hell dominate everybody else for the entirety of the "story", or at least until the game is shutdown prematurely.
    Indeed I even remember at one point the power that be for this game said something along the lines of, and I am paraphrasing here, " that they didn't want things to be fair, they want to model things like in real life where some people have more power due to cash etc etc"

    That was the bases for their model and arguing its not p2w is super silly when they themselves as much as said they want it that way... with whales getting advantages etc.

    Just like the failed Revival game by Illfonics.

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,695
    The way I've heard it explained is, titles and land 'may' be lost.  I've never heard anyone confirm or deny that because your character will die, your title and/or lands are therefore temporary and will be lost upon time of character's death.  I assumed titles and land can be inherited and passed to your new incarnation.  

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  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    The way I've heard it explained is, titles and land 'may' be lost.  I've never heard anyone confirm or deny that because your character will die, your title and/or lands are therefore temporary and will be lost upon time of character's death.  I assumed titles and land can be inherited and passed to your new incarnation.  
    From what I've heard, the design plan is to allow you to pass off your lands and title as an inheritance.  How that will be implemented is something we'll just have to see if/when the game is playable.  If the inheritance system is too protective of the beneficiary then there's a big problem as you'll just have King's passing off their stuff to their next character.  There will need to be room for political intrigue; coups, assassinations, that sort of thing.  It's going to be tricky to strike the right balance on that one.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,698
    The way I've heard it explained is, titles and land 'may' be lost.  I've never heard anyone confirm or deny that because your character will die, your title and/or lands are therefore temporary and will be lost upon time of character's death.  I assumed titles and land can be inherited and passed to your new incarnation.  
    Until there's a playable game, it is all just theorycrafting.

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112
    Kyleran said:
    Until there's a playable game, it is all just theorycrafting.

    But when the fanbois speak it is with such utter surety. But then, perhaps they do know something we don't, after all you need to pay like minimum $500 or something to get access to the real news of the game and double that to get the real inside scoops. Not even joking. insane
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,698
    genaknosc said:
    Kyleran said:
    Until there's a playable game, it is all just theorycrafting.

    But when the fanbois speak it is with such utter surety. But then, perhaps they do know something we don't, after all you need to pay like minimum $500 or something to get access to the real news of the game and double that to get the real inside scoops. Not even joking. insane
    Citadel of Sorcery has this same sort of "inner circle" for very high paying donors and only they reportedly get to see any of the "real gameplay"

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    genaknosc said:
    Kyleran said:
    Until there's a playable game, it is all just theorycrafting.

    But when the fanbois speak it is with such utter surety. But then, perhaps they do know something we don't, after all you need to pay like minimum $500 or something to get access to the real news of the game and double that to get the real inside scoops. Not even joking. insane
    Or you can dispense with the retarded conspiracy theories and just go to their website.  Not even joking ...
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112
    genaknosc said:
    Kyleran said:
    Until there's a playable game, it is all just theorycrafting.

    But when the fanbois speak it is with such utter surety. But then, perhaps they do know something we don't, after all you need to pay like minimum $500 or something to get access to the real news of the game and double that to get the real inside scoops. Not even joking. insane
    Or you can dispense with the retarded conspiracy theories and just go to their website.  Not even joking ...

    To read the non-updates basically only showing screenshots of shit they probably just bought off an asset store? Even the desperately optimistic blogs by Tim on this website lament the steadily decreasing value of updates that are approved for release to the general public plebs. 
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,313
    edited March 2017
    Until this game is actual release material the OP is correct. You can't win if you can't play so why is this thread drawing flies?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,698
    ArChWind said:
    Until this game is actual release material the OP is correct. You can't win if you can't play so why is this thread drawing flies?
    Flies are drawn to crap don't ya know. :p

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 990
    Rasiem said:
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

      I understand where your coming from but you actually listed the reason its not P2W remember this is a totally player driven game and the people buying in understand they can lose everything at anytime but tis the fact there paying to basically get the game started. Its not P2W because after launch and correct me if im wrong, you cannot buy kingdoms and titles anymore. Honestly what worries me are hackers I think there needs to be some real next level defense for this game.
    You can't really say, "Just get the game started". Giving a player basic essentials like a bow and some meat is "Just getting started" Giving them kingship, the chance to play 3 months in advance and use irl money to get as much resources before launch, is more than a head start.

    Imho what you said sounds worse, so those who start after the launch will be completely dominated? They maybe able to lose it all, but what is the % of a new player defeating a well established king? Based on their site, it's no a quick and easy task taking the title of a king.

    Imho it just brings real world nonsense in game, i.e, those who have real world wealth will be granted titles and nobility, while those who don't have to work for it.

    Of their site  

    "ownership of land and titles has an impact on the server as a whole."

    Don't get me wrong I think the game looks amazing and is got cool ideas, but I feel they will push more away with this than draw in. It's very disheartening when you join a just launched game and people are already serval months ahead of you and all they did was pay money.

  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member UncommonPosts: 587
    My thoughts are that it is CLEARLY P2W for the following reasons:


    1. Buy yourself up to a kingship (or multiple kingships in at least 1 case of a guy who spent 40k)
    2. Buy yourself a 3 month no wipe head start in a PvP territory control game with looting
    3. Use real money to buy IP
    4. Use IP to buy items such as:
    • land
    • buildings
    • resources (both common and uncommon)
    • mounts
    • siege weapons

    Feel free to have a different opinion but to me this is clearly one of the most over the top P2W games I have seen.

    well if this is true, sorry i didn't dig to much into this game.. but im following it sort of speak(listed), ill scrap it right of the list.

    buying items in a full loot game.. adding that up of buying towns and/or buildings i define defo P2W
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,034
    edited March 2017
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..

    The game also doesn't impress me by the pictures shown to me in snapshots and needs serious improvements and developers who think the way I do over-all I wouldn't fund this game right off.

    Some of the Art-Work is great I see, but other needs major improvements... Wish I had my own company to hire and develop a MMO properly ); so sad.
  • SelzyrSelzyr Member UncommonPosts: 60
    edited March 2017
    simon155 said:
    And I'd say it's NOT P2W for the following reasons:

    1. You can lose anything you buy to another player, even an NPC potentially, with nothing left to show for your money.

    2. The backing options are ONLY available PRE-launch to help players to define kingdoms, towns and more, and make the world better prepared for new players. This isn't a "keep throwing money in to stay ahead game".

    3. Starting out with extra furniture does not make you "win a game"

    4. Many MMOs sell aesthetic  goods for $, which don't offer game advantages, so we should steer clear of false definitions of "IP for $" equating to pay to win.

    5. Land can be lost. Buildings can be lost. Resources are finite. Mounts can be lost. Siege weapons can be lost. There is no permanent advantage.

    6. Elyria is a world filled with inequality. This isn't a "normal" MMO. In your bog standard MMO, there IS no King. All players are equal. In Elyria, ANY player can potentially rise through the ranks and depose another. A King is NOT equal to a peasant, but reaching King is NOT winning.

    7. Perhaps while you're blasting CoE about being P2W, you should define what your idea of "winning" is. If your ideal of winning is owning a mount, then perhaps for you it is P2W.. it just wouldn't fit most people's definition.




    Stop being a fanboi please, I'm waiting the game like everyone else, some of the mechanics are interesting others are meh, but CoE clearly has a p2w mechanic(s) on it.

    1-Loosing anything to another player or NPC doesn't change the fact that you had an advantage from the start over the others, tho, if you loose to another player in those conditions, you are clearly stupid.

    2-Doesn't change the fact that you STILL start with an advantage, and if that advantage was obtained with irl money, p2w.

    3-Indeed, but we all know that isn't only extra furniture.

    4-We are clear of that definition, but take a good damm look at what its being offered before you make stupid claims like this.

    5-See point one and two, still, you or anyone else that looses with these kind of advantages can only be called "stupid", doesn't change the fact that you started with an advantage over others obtained with irl money, thus, p2w.

    6-Wrong, you didn't read enough about the game it seems, everyone starts as a nobody(or its supposed to be that way *cough*) but with advantages like Land/Buildings/Resources for a headstart/Mounts(lol)/Siege weapons? fuck me, anyone that buys that kind of shit with irl money has a fucking advatange over little jimmy that is playing the game without spending a single irl dime on it, thus, making that bloke that bought the shit with irl money has a better chance of becoming a King faster then anyone else, question would be, how long it lasts since there will be other morons doing the same.
    p2w.

    7-Perhaps that fanboism is preventing you from seeing things clearly, and the definition of p2w varies from person to person, but on this case most if not all agree that CoE is going heavy on the p2w.
    Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. And the more you know Insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. But I can tell you that only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
  • TermiiTermii Member CommonPosts: 6
    edited March 2017
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    You can not spend any money on CoE after release, except 40$ for a copy of the game and 30$ for a Spark of Life (=6 to 12 months subscription) 

    The starting continent is around 27.000km² big. You could buy EVERY parcel(64m x 64m Land) in the game (~70million buyable Plots). Each parcel can be further broken down into plots, which you can rent.(for example 1 x 3 Meter or 1 room in your house).

    Note: even if you own a parcel, you ONLY have rights on it (you can sue people doing illegal stuff on your parcel). The system does NOT prevent others from destroying your buildings. Others can also steal the ownership of your parcel, if they build any building on it and keep it staying for 4 weeks.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,849
    Termii said:
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    ... 

    The starting continent is around 27.000km² big. You could buy EVERY parcel(64m x 64m Land) in the game (~70million buyable Plots). Each parcel can be further broken down into plots, which you can rent.(for example 1 x 3 Meter or 1 room in your house).

    ...
    After launch, just check on EBay for the current land rental prices in CoE ! :lol:
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,698
    Termii said:
    Renoaku said:
    It might not be Pay 2 Win...

    But is COE "Pay 2 Enjoy"

    1.) Do players have to spend money to re-customize a character every single time or gain access to cosmetic features.

    2.) Do people have to spend Real Money to obtain property in a game or get the highest property ownage aka founders packs before it all gets sold out and people are left without.

    If these two are true then the game is Pay 2 Enjoy..
    You can not spend any money on CoE after release, except 40$ for a copy of the game and 30$ for a Spark of Life (=6 to 12 months subscription) 
    You can't really count on the Devs holding true to that promise, if they do it will be one of few games that never caved. (not sure there are any now)
    Nilden

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    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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