MMOs are at their best when it's all about teamwork. I enjoy that very much both in PvP and PvE especially when the game play scales well for large groups. It's the synergy between different classes or builds playing well together that I enjoy the most.
Soloing for me is something I do to pass the time when I'm only half paying attention to what I'm doing. I often watch sports while I solo
It's why I find 1v1 PvP annoying and I dislike games with a lot of 1v1 ganking in PvE zones. I want my PvP in my own time when I'm ready and willing to pay attention to what I'm doing. In that sense it's no different for me than group PvE, which I also only do when I can concentrate on it. I want my PVP segregated from sololand.
I also prefer to do it for its own sake. I find it enjoyable and neither want nor need scoreboards to turn it into a sporting event. That takes away from the team focus and turns into a contest even among teammates.
It's something that ESO got wrong in its PvP, IMO, with the scoreboard and emperor thing. Most of the cheating in that system revolves around gaming the game (guilds with members in different alliances get together to flip resources and let someone get free kills to get one of their buds highest on the scoreboard) to get the most Alliance Points and become emperor. It'd be a much better game if achieving the same objectives that it currently has to crown an emperor would instead give you exclusive access to the Imperial City like DAoC did with Darkness falls when you unlocked it for everyone in your alliance who could then go PvE in one of the best places to do so. Group rewards for group play.
It's one of the things I find most interesting about what Ashes of Creation is trying to do with their "nodes" system. Things you do in a node contribute to the node's growth to the benefit of everyone who is interested in developing that node. I could see an allegiance and desire to fight for your chosen node being a more natural process in that design than artificial binary or trinary choices at character creation.
/end tangent
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I'd say that I participate in PvE more the PvP, but I prefer playing on PvP servers where open world PvP exists. I enjoy the element of danger while out leveling or resource gathering, and the chance to test my skills against a person or two every now and then really gets the blood pumping.
Really enjoy both , so hard to get it right tho .. DAOC hit it the best , UO was pretty dam good .. Warhammer had great PVP and trash PVE ... SWG was fun in its day also ....
MAybe some Dev will manage the right mix again one day ...
I love both and prefer PvP a little. . but I dislike battlegrounds and dislike Arenas even more. I like open world PvP with the odd safe spot. I love getting jumped and surprising people. I have never initiated PvP (except in Meridian 59) but I am always up for the challenge and I think it is the most immersive thing you can have in an MMO.
I am not playing MMO's to be competitive. I enjoy danger and risk in a game, but the problem with PvP for me is that it can't be done casually. You are either all in, or you are out. That doesn't fit my gameplay style, which is pretty relaxed now. No problem with guys that like it though, as long as they keep it to themselves and stop asking for it in every game that comes out.
I am currently trying out ED and playing in solo mode. I find the computer AI to provide just the right amount of risk and suspense to the game, while at least giving me a fighting chance to survive. And no trash talk or camping to worry about either. Kind of refreshing. I will probably switch to open mode once I feel more comfortable with the game and see how it goes.
So yea, I voted PvE only, since PvP really adds nothing but bad stuff to a game, for me.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I am not playing MMO's to be competitive. I enjoy danger and risk in a game, but the problem with PvP for me is that it can't be done casually. You are either all in, or you are out. That doesn't fit my gameplay style, which is pretty relaxed now. No problem with guys that like it though, as long as they keep it to themselves and stop asking for it in every game that comes out...
Pretty much sums up my reasons as well, in truth usually will try out the PvP in every game but then the trash talking starts, the over stimulated testosterone teens come out and frankly it's just not that fun for a casual player. I would also add that I really enjoy a good story in a game. So no denying I am 99% PvE.
Its only when I don't have enough PvE content to occupy my time that I start doing PvP stuff in MMORPG. It can be a fun distraction but that's not why I play.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I really dislike forced worldpvp though. PvP that disrupts my PvE gameplay is a no go.
Sometimes some games have a design that offers World pvp, but where people does not really do pvp due to penalties of some kind, but even then I still dislike it. The notion, that PvP can happen involuntary, no matter how rare it might actually be happening, is enough to turn me away from a game.
I like PvP in designated battlegrounds though, places I queue for/ can go to, to specifically PvP. And even in those specific areas I prefer when its PvEPvP designs. (AV in WoW as example, my all time favorite design)
A game without PvP battlegrounds or specifically designated contested areas with PvP, I find boring though.
So I really would like both elements in games.
However I think I could like other designs, than the ones I already like. Ashes of Creation is bringing in those 40 days of peace mixed with announced war phases. Looks really interesting.
Preparation for an expected war seems much more interesting than random "roflstomp I pwned you lololol, you madbro? /bunnyjump bunnyjump, pvp"
Not that I'm totally againt PvP in MMOs (although MOBAs and FPS games are usually infinitely better at it), but unless the MMO is designed from the ground up to incorporate PvP into the larger design (and most aren't) at best it feels tacked on (battlegrounds, arena, even GW2 WvW), and at worst it's just a gank fest and / or damages the PvE (e.g. ability nerfs in the name of PvP 'balance').
PvE, I've really liked PvP in some games but it's rare.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
PvE for me. I play to relax and relive stress at end of day.
I have learned to hate PvP over the years as pure PvP games tend to bring out the dark side of other players. To me playing PvP games only builds stres.
I voted both. It depends on the game if I play PVP or not. In MMORPG's mostly not, because most MMORPG's don't offer great pvp. In MMORPG's where min maxing requires you to grind PVE, so you get a fair chance in PVP, I just ignore PVP. Those PVP systems are just bad design.
I selected what I like to play the most. I don't mind some arena type pvp but really detest open world pvp games anymore. Overall I would rather see developers pick a type and go with it and stop trying to do it all just to get more customers while never perfecting either style. Either make a great pve game which stands on its merit as a pve game and draws in a crowd on that alone or make a great pvp game where the main point of the game is totally pvp. The idea that you have to make every player type happy with every game is the reason a lot of games tank. They spend so much time trying to make one group happy and the other complains and vice verses when they switch and people just stop caring over time. And I am not saying you can't have some quest and things in a pvp game but if it is a pvp game you should be able to do the entire thing without touching pve if you choose pvp, all objectives should revolve around pvp.
PVE. Even though i play games that also include PVP, for the most part its optional, either because its limited to arena's or because there are penalties to attacking those who aren't flagged for PVP, as you find in BDO, which despite it having a lot of PVP content, is also a heavily PVE focused game.
My favourite type of gameplay is objective-based open world pvp. I love fighting over keeps! I love fighting over territory in general, and open world PvP is pretty much the only time that MMOs actually fulfil the criteria for being massively-multiplayer.
That said, I voted both because I expect both and enjoy both. I love PvP at endgame because after a while, gear and classes end up mostly balanced (because everyone has the best gear) so you start getting some really fun, challenging fights. I love PvE at endgame as, again, it is pretty much the only time when developers get the balance right and start offering some challenge.
I also firmly believe that it is possible to create an MMO that is 50/50 balanced between pvp and pve and have it be fun for both parties. I can't see any insurmountable barriers in the way. Hell, I've played two MMOs where both the pvp and pve were extremely fun: SWG and LotRO.
Part of the reason why I want and expect both is to achieve diversity in the community. I love the massively-multiplayer part of MMORPGs, I love seeing other people, meeting others, making new friends, running guilds, having server competitions etc. It is what the genre is all about. Diversity is extremely important in creating a great server community and a great community is critical for long term success.
There are only two main difficulties that I can see when it comes to having both in an MMO. The first is the combat system. Developing a combat system that works well for both pve and pvp is tricky, assuming you want a deep combat system (if you want a shallow combat system like eso then its easy). Making a deep combat system for PvE usually means having lots of situational and group-based skills, so the combat system only really comes alive during group and raid content. The solo content is then usually balanced by making it quite trivial.
However, that means in PvP, groups end up having a massive advantage because they can make best use of the group skills. But, many PvPers either play solo or find themselves solo a lot. If you swing the balance too far in favour of groups, it really hurts the pvp scene as pretty much all fresh meat gets stomped on and quits (like in WAR). However, go too far around balancing for solo and you end up with boring / trivial group PvE (like SW:TOR).
The second difficulty is gear. PvPers hate it when raiders can come in with their gear and stomp the average PvPers. Likewise, raiders hate it when PvPers are able to skip months of gear grinding because their top tier pvp gear will allow them to raid. So, many games have separate gear sets with specific stats, but then people like me hate that because it means we're forced to grind both in we want to enjoy both, but the time constraints can make that impossible. The root of the gear problem though is power gaps. Power gaps cause such massive issues in MMOs across the board that we need to do away with them. Horizontal progression, at least at endgame, is the solution.
All the other problems of having both activities in your game are easy to solve and have already been solved in a variety of ways in different games.
Lately, I only want PvE. I can't take PvP seriously anymore since its always filled with toxic people that will try anything to abuse/exploit in order to win.
Really enjoy both , so hard to get it right tho .. DAOC hit it the best , UO was pretty dam good .. Warhammer had great PVP and trash PVE ... SWG was fun in its day also ....
MAybe some Dev will manage the right mix again one day ...
You know, DAOC as it was is back in full force....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
only 5% PVP? scary.. being forced to PVE so that I can PVP is doable.. and can be a lot of fun.... otherwise just pure PVP or nothing.
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While I would probably consider myself a PvX type of person, lately in mmorpgs, I find myself just wanting to PvE. I get my PvP fix from games designed with it solely in mind, like mobas or fps games.
Camelot Unchained or Crowfall could be games that get me more interested in PvP within a mmorpg environment, since PvP is a cornerstone of the design focus for both games.
Comments
Soloing for me is something I do to pass the time when I'm only half paying attention to what I'm doing. I often watch sports while I solo
It's why I find 1v1 PvP annoying and I dislike games with a lot of 1v1 ganking in PvE zones. I want my PvP in my own time when I'm ready and willing to pay attention to what I'm doing. In that sense it's no different for me than group PvE, which I also only do when I can concentrate on it. I want my PVP segregated from sololand.
I also prefer to do it for its own sake. I find it enjoyable and neither want nor need scoreboards to turn it into a sporting event. That takes away from the team focus and turns into a contest even among teammates.
It's something that ESO got wrong in its PvP, IMO, with the scoreboard and emperor thing. Most of the cheating in that system revolves around gaming the game (guilds with members in different alliances get together to flip resources and let someone get free kills to get one of their buds highest on the scoreboard) to get the most Alliance Points and become emperor. It'd be a much better game if achieving the same objectives that it currently has to crown an emperor would instead give you exclusive access to the Imperial City like DAoC did with Darkness falls when you unlocked it for everyone in your alliance who could then go PvE in one of the best places to do so. Group rewards for group play.
It's one of the things I find most interesting about what Ashes of Creation is trying to do with their "nodes" system. Things you do in a node contribute to the node's growth to the benefit of everyone who is interested in developing that node. I could see an allegiance and desire to fight for your chosen node being a more natural process in that design than artificial binary or trinary choices at character creation.
/end tangent
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Having to really be aware of your surroundings while doing PVE was always an added an extra layer of excitement for me.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MAybe some Dev will manage the right mix again one day ...
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I am currently trying out ED and playing in solo mode. I find the computer AI to provide just the right amount of risk and suspense to the game, while at least giving me a fighting chance to survive. And no trash talk or camping to worry about either. Kind of refreshing. I will probably switch to open mode once I feel more comfortable with the game and see how it goes.
So yea, I voted PvE only, since PvP really adds nothing but bad stuff to a game, for me.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Can't get my pen to write in this space.
I really dislike forced worldpvp though.
PvP that disrupts my PvE gameplay is a no go.
Sometimes some games have a design that offers World pvp, but where people does not really do pvp due to penalties of some kind, but even then I still dislike it. The notion, that PvP can happen involuntary, no matter how rare it might actually be happening, is enough to turn me away from a game.
I like PvP in designated battlegrounds though, places I queue for/ can go to, to specifically PvP.
And even in those specific areas I prefer when its PvEPvP designs. (AV in WoW as example, my all time favorite design)
A game without PvP battlegrounds or specifically designated contested areas with PvP, I find boring though.
So I really would like both elements in games.
However I think I could like other designs, than the ones I already like. Ashes of Creation is bringing in those 40 days of peace mixed with announced war phases. Looks really interesting.
Preparation for an expected war seems much more interesting than random "roflstomp I pwned you lololol, you madbro? /bunnyjump bunnyjump, pvp"
Not that I'm totally againt PvP in MMOs (although MOBAs and FPS games are usually infinitely better at it), but unless the MMO is designed from the ground up to incorporate PvP into the larger design (and most aren't) at best it feels tacked on (battlegrounds, arena, even GW2 WvW), and at worst it's just a gank fest and / or damages the PvE (e.g. ability nerfs in the name of PvP 'balance').
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I have learned to hate PvP over the years as pure PvP games tend to bring out the dark side of other players. To me playing PvP games only builds stres.
In my experience PvPers have been gankers and grievers who have fun by bullying others. That's not fun for me.
That said, I voted both because I expect both and enjoy both. I love PvP at endgame because after a while, gear and classes end up mostly balanced (because everyone has the best gear) so you start getting some really fun, challenging fights. I love PvE at endgame as, again, it is pretty much the only time when developers get the balance right and start offering some challenge.
I also firmly believe that it is possible to create an MMO that is 50/50 balanced between pvp and pve and have it be fun for both parties. I can't see any insurmountable barriers in the way. Hell, I've played two MMOs where both the pvp and pve were extremely fun: SWG and LotRO.
Part of the reason why I want and expect both is to achieve diversity in the community. I love the massively-multiplayer part of MMORPGs, I love seeing other people, meeting others, making new friends, running guilds, having server competitions etc. It is what the genre is all about. Diversity is extremely important in creating a great server community and a great community is critical for long term success.
There are only two main difficulties that I can see when it comes to having both in an MMO. The first is the combat system. Developing a combat system that works well for both pve and pvp is tricky, assuming you want a deep combat system (if you want a shallow combat system like eso then its easy). Making a deep combat system for PvE usually means having lots of situational and group-based skills, so the combat system only really comes alive during group and raid content. The solo content is then usually balanced by making it quite trivial.
However, that means in PvP, groups end up having a massive advantage because they can make best use of the group skills. But, many PvPers either play solo or find themselves solo a lot. If you swing the balance too far in favour of groups, it really hurts the pvp scene as pretty much all fresh meat gets stomped on and quits (like in WAR). However, go too far around balancing for solo and you end up with boring / trivial group PvE (like SW:TOR).
The second difficulty is gear. PvPers hate it when raiders can come in with their gear and stomp the average PvPers. Likewise, raiders hate it when PvPers are able to skip months of gear grinding because their top tier pvp gear will allow them to raid. So, many games have separate gear sets with specific stats, but then people like me hate that because it means we're forced to grind both in we want to enjoy both, but the time constraints can make that impossible. The root of the gear problem though is power gaps. Power gaps cause such massive issues in MMOs across the board that we need to do away with them. Horizontal progression, at least at endgame, is the solution.
All the other problems of having both activities in your game are easy to solve and have already been solved in a variety of ways in different games.
Just saying, yes Virginia, you can go home again
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Camelot Unchained or Crowfall could be games that get me more interested in PvP within a mmorpg environment, since PvP is a cornerstone of the design focus for both games.