Does anyone else find this concerning?

Keltazur · February 2017

I quickly went through the UE4 marketplace and noticed quite a bit of this game is fluffed with other people's work that has been bought up from the marketplace. If you look at the environment, models, and spell effects, you have to wonder how much of this game is really being developed if you compare their developer videos especially if you had a chance to watch the livestream last Thursday (23rd of February) the stream on Twitch.

It almost looked like they slapped a bunch of copy/paste of bunch of stuff bought form the marketplace on UE4 and put out a video.

If anyone has the free time to find the environment they bought of the UE4 marketplace let us know, I didn't find it on my first pass. Those soldiers and the bar maid from the video that didn't have any animations and looked like they were props for the video looked like they came from the marketplace too.

While there is nothing wrong with buying up other people's work in the UE4 marketplace, if this game goes on a crowd-funding campaign, you have to ask yourself how much of this game are they really making, that is a huge concern.

Links below:

Doghttps://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/realistic-casual-dog
Magic Special Effectshttps://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

Keltazur · February 2017

Since I can't edit my original post, reposting the Magic Special Effects hyperlinks because they looked like one link, when infact its more than one.

Magic Special Effects:

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

Sovrath · February 2017

Not necessarily.

I realize some people have issues with games they refer to as "asset flips" but I think for an indy company I'm a bit more forgiving of such things provided the game is good and there is something original in the game.

I don't know what it takes to animate a spell effect but if it's a few people making the game and they don't have the resources or people who can create spell effects then it makes sense that they will want to use something more professional looking but pre-made.

Also, the footage you see is pre-alpha so there is still time for them to alter those assets in a way that is a bit more personal to the project.

CrazKanuk · February 2017

Is it concerning? Not really. It's actually pretty common. They're indie, remember, and art is f'n expensive. I look at it as an advantage, actually. Marketplaces, like Unreal or Unity, give developers access to quality models at reasonable prices. Prior to these marketplaces, you could buy similar animation packs, but they were more pricey, or you could outsource it..... and you'd end up with a variation of the pricey package you looked at originally, maybe slightly modified.

In the end, it's really no different than it's ever been. You can do your own, or you can buy someone else's. The only difference now is that there are marketplaces which make this art open to the public and, also, makes it more accessible to developers (so you might see more re-use of models).

ScottB2J · February 2017

Why would it be concerning that this indie company is using some store assets for their pre-alpha build a year into development?

are you just trying to be negative?

good god, be happy that some guys are trying to build a fun game, and stop busting their balls.

Papasmerv · February 2017

No. not concerning at this stage of the project. It's a cost-effective move designed to be able to showcase concepts. Yes, it's possible potential consumers may recognize the digital art; as you have. Most, however will not. It's important for the devs to have something tangible to show to go alongside their narrative which describes the games feature goals. Double edged sword in some ways.

LIOKI · February 2017

They are using them because they can't do it themselves and therefore cannot hope to build a mmorpg.

Leiloni · February 2017

I think their concept art speaks for itself. As others have noted, it's standard at this stage and not a big deal. If a game looks good and plays well, I don't care how it got there.

https://www.ashesofcreation.com/concept-art/

I don't know why this game has attracted so many haters. What makes this one so different from all the rest?

CrazKanuk · February 2017

LIOKI said:

They are using them because they can't do it themselves and therefore cannot hope to build a mmorpg.

This is pretty much disagree all around. Actually, if they wanted to, you could buy assets to roll out an MMORPG with all the basic mechanics quite easily. I actually bought an asset from the Unity store and rolled out my own MMORPG in a few hours, world server and all. There was nothing in the world, but I had a base world that came with the engine and all the basic mechanics. All I need to do is populate it.

The barriers to creating an MMORPG should absolutely NOT be tools these days. I've got my MVP done! Now if I want to be able to customize the engine it'll cost me another $10k, but it's becoming less and less cost prohibitive. What they should be doing is using as many canned assets as they can and build on that.... as long as the assets are open and source can be bought at some point. Otherwise they could end up like The Repop.

Kyleran · February 2017

Leiloni said:

I think their concept art speaks for itself. As others have noted, it's standard at this stage and not a big deal. If a game looks good and plays well, I don't care how it got there.

https://www.ashesofcreation.com/concept-art/

I don't know why this game has attracted so many haters. What makes this one so different from all the rest?

As a card carrying member of "the haters" I assure you every new title receives the same careful attention this one has.

On topic I have no concern about what art assets are used, reused etc as long as the gameplay is solid.

Octagon7711 · February 2017

Keltazur said:

Since I can't edit my original post, reposting the Magic Special Effects hyperlinks because they looked like one link, when infact its more than one.

Magic Special Effects:

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

That edit icon threw me off also it's on the upper right corner of the page, well away from the post.

tawess · February 2017

Well...

It is a risk ofc since the more generic assets you use, the less personality your project have.

But as others have said, at this stage it sure beats grey boxing.

Come back when it goes gold, if at that point it is still a lot of bought pre-made assets... Well then we might have a issue unless the gameplay is fucking stellar.

Keltazur · February 2017

Octagon7711 said:

Keltazur said:

Since I can't edit my original post, reposting the Magic Special Effects hyperlinks because they looked like one link, when infact its more than one.

Magic Special Effects:

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

That edit icon threw me off also it's on the upper right corner of the page, well away from the post.

@Octagon7711 ; Thank you for this. Very helpful.

Also, thank you everyone for your posts, I did not know it was standard practice to buy up assets from 3rd party sources.

LIOKI · February 2017

CrazKanuk said:

LIOKI said:

They are using them because they can't do it themselves and therefore cannot hope to build a mmorpg.

This is pretty much disagree all around. Actually, if they wanted to, you could buy assets to roll out an MMORPG with all the basic mechanics quite easily. I actually bought an asset from the Unity store and rolled out my own MMORPG in a few hours, world server and all. There was nothing in the world, but I had a base world that came with the engine and all the basic mechanics. All I need to do is populate it.

The barriers to creating an MMORPG should absolutely NOT be tools these days. I've got my MVP done! Now if I want to be able to customize the engine it'll cost me another $10k, but it's becoming less and less cost prohibitive. What they should be doing is using as many canned assets as they can and build on that.... as long as the assets are open and source can be bought at some point. Otherwise they could end up like The Repop.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.. all I need to do is populate it..........what an absolute joke.

Sovrath · February 2017

Keltazur said:

Octagon7711 said:

Keltazur said:

Since I can't edit my original post, reposting the Magic Special Effects hyperlinks because they looked like one link, when infact its more than one.

Magic Special Effects:

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY

https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

That edit icon threw me off also it's on the upper right corner of the page, well away from the post.

@Octagon7711 ; Thank you for this. Very helpful.

Also, thank you everyone for your posts, I did not know it was standard practice to buy up assets from 3rd party sources.

Well, it's done but the idea is that the developers then alter them in a way that makes sense to their project.

Having said that, I don't really think it's a big deal if they have created all their avatars, their world, items, etc and just use the same spell effects.

What becomes a bigger issue is if they buy EVERYTHING and then make a game out of it. Not to say that can't be successful but there will be a higher level of scrutiny when people look at their game.

Distopia · February 2017

The real question is how many would even notice or know it was a marketplace item?

Muke · February 2017

LIOKI said:

They are using them because they can't do it themselves and therefore cannot hope to build a mmorpg.

So you are saying Blizzard should have stopped the development of WoW too since much of it's game content was created after looking in the kitchen of the neighbour?

SpottyGekko · February 2017

I don't care if the entire game is filled with store-bought artwork and models. What counts is the game play.

However, I suppose there's a risk that these easily produced and very slick-looking demo's that we're seeing lately for KS projects will fool many people into thinking that "the game already looks amazing, and it's only in pre-alpha ! These guys are obviously pro's, imma back this one to the max !"

Producing beautiful landscape screenshots and epic 5-minute combat demo's is one thing, actually implementing your laundry-list of amazing features is quite another...

Tiller · February 2017

Even ESO has some open source assets. Example: NPC Imps use the same sound file that was used for Kreetles and Rock Beetles on Tatooine in SWG. It's crazy; I know.
Imp
Kreetle

Dark and Light is also using some U4 premade assets for their game as well.

Leiloni · February 2017

SpottyGekko said:

Producing beautiful landscape screenshots and epic 5-minute combat demo's is one thing, actually implementing your laundry-list of amazing features is quite another...

I think the biggest thing is the node system. It's the core feature of the game and sounds like the most complex. From what I can tell, the rest is pretty standard stuff and not a lot of it when you think about it. Aside from the node system, they have a standard karma based PvP flagging system, fairly normal class system with advanced class choices, caravan trade sytem, then things like housing, seiges, and dungeons are standard ideas but again, are tied into the node system. I'm not sure this game is as big and complex as it sounds at first glance.

When you step back I don't think there's a ton going on. It seems to me like a new twist on some old, already done ideas - it takes a lot from Lineage 2 and Black Desert in terms of that sort of open world MMO, but makes it more PvE with dungeons and toning down the frequency of the PvP. The node system strikes me as something similar to what EQN was doing so we'll see how that part plays out.

Albatroes · February 2017

Edit: Darn Tiller beat me about Dark and Light's asset buying.

Maurgrim · March 2017

It's a pre alfa footage they all might just be placeholder to test out game mechanics before they do a personal touch themselves.

Lets just wait and see how it looks further down the road shall we.

Phry · March 2017

After the whole Digital Homicide debacle, i can imagine that people are a bit more sceptical of the ability of developers who purchase assets like that.
For the moment its probably best to give them the benefit of the doubt, whether they have the creative talent themselves or not, will eventually become apparent.

Maquiame · March 2017

Keltazur said:

I quickly went through the UE4 marketplace and noticed quite a bit of this game is fluffed with other people's work that has been bought up from the marketplace. If you look at the environment, models, and spell effects, you have to wonder how much of this game is really being developed if you compare their developer videos especially if you had a chance to watch the livestream last Thursday (23rd of February) the stream on Twitch.

It almost looked like they slapped a bunch of copy/paste of bunch of stuff bought form the marketplace on UE4 and put out a video.

If anyone has the free time to find the environment they bought of the UE4 marketplace let us know, I didn't find it on my first pass. Those soldiers and the bar maid from the video that didn't have any animations and looked like they were props for the video looked like they came from the marketplace too.

While there is nothing wrong with buying up other people's work in the UE4 marketplace, if this game goes on a crowd-funding campaign, you have to ask yourself how much of this game are they really making, that is a huge concern.

Links below:

Doghttps://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/realistic-casual-dog
Magic Special Effectshttps://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/advanced-magic-fx-10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgAp9HussBU&feature=youtu.be
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/kymagicchantfx https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jorUnC-QEY
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/ky-magic-fx03

And? The game looks great so far and better than what bigger names are doing right now and much better than games like Pantheon,Camelot Unchainced and Shroud of the Avatar. As far as I'm concerned use away if they can achieve videos this good so early.

Panther2103 · March 2017

I don't think it's concerning, at least not yet. In circumstances where people are a small team developing a huge game, I think flipping assets in a store is okay for some things. If it turns out the entire game is an unmodified asset flip then I'll be a lot angrier. In general steam is filled with 100 of the same asset flipped unit z clones, and garbage games thrown together in 30 mins to fake getting voted in greenlight and sell enough to flip another. As long as this doesn't feel like that I'm perfectly okay with it.

Thorrik · March 2017

Couldn't care less. All I want is good gameplay.

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Does anyone else find this concerning?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

This have been a good conversation