I loved EQII's crafting only because it added slightly manageable risk to the reward. I also thought that Horizon (now Elanthia or something) had an amazing crafting system during beta that was merely okay after release, since most of the game went a whole new direction.
what i didnt like about EQ2 crafting was a the rather large limit in what you could make and the number of steps/ingredients it took to make them. It all felt very limited and 1 dimensional
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I voted 'Other', but really wanted a choice for 'None'. All games have been disappointing, as far as crafting goes. It is always build an item from materials using a specific procedure. There's never room for innovation, invention or inspiration.
So you want something exactly like Mortal Online's crafting system? Really. You should check it out. Say you want to make a sword. You pick the blade style, hilt style, what material to make the blade from, what material to make the hilt from, what to wrap the hilt in etc. All of these components have different properties, and the end result item with be changed by all of these choices.
You can also breed animals with animals having random chanced to inherit attributes from the mother or father so you might breed a desert horse (extremely fast) with a bull horse (hard to kill and slow) in hopes of making a fast but durable horse.
A lot of negative things to be said about that game but also a lot of good things. It definitely pushed the envelope in several different areas.
And of course there is alchemy where you can make potions by mixing different ingredients together, and last I played there were still many undiscovered potions or potions that the recipe was the closely guarded secret of certain guilds.
Life is Feudal also has a extremely robust alchemy system... altho not an MMO
Unique Alchemy Combinations. There are over 40,000,000 alchemy combinations unique to each player! You need to learn, experiment and create your very own unique combinations. Complementing the hardcore feel of the game, alchemy is not simply a matter of character skill as it strongly emphasises spending time and resources on creating good recipes and combinations
I've played it. It's an early access MMO supposedly. They are supposed to be launching a full MMO but with the issue where even small servers get corrupted data and need to be reset every month or so, I don't see how they'll pull that off.
as a side note the entire rule set for Life is feudal is available as a single player game and as a MP private server game.
People wonder what is happening to the MMO space? this is happening
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Why add SWG? Its a dead game... Sure there are servers still hosting it but this shouldn't be a walk down memory lane poll.
Because it's widely considered by many people to be one of the greatest crafting systems of all time. Therefore it's extremely relevant to discussions on crafting systems. Why should it matter if the game itself died if people are still discussing it's crafting system to this day?
Plus it all depends on how you define dead or die etc. The game still has a huge impact on people just like WoW has an impact on WoW vets regardless if they even play WoW currently or not.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
I'm not much of a crafter myself and don't have the widest experience with MMOs, so my vote is obviously biased.
I've personally never played a game where crafting is fun. I've played games where crafting was rewarding (because you create something special, or make money) but the actual gameplay of crafting has always sucked for me.
So, when I think of good crafting systems, I am looking for systems which allow the following:
A genuine, player led economy which places demands on every crafting profession
A wide variety of items that can be crafted.
The ability for a crafter to distinguish themselves in comparison to other crafters
The ability for a crafter to play the game as just a crafter
As the majority of modern MMOs are loot based, it invalidates the majority of crafting systems as the output is worthless. As the majority of crafting systems are based on rigid recipes, they can also be written off as every crafter is the same.
So, SWG is the only MMO I've played which meets my criteria for a good system. I still found the actual process of crafting boring - having to constantly survey for new harvesting grounds, grinding 50k items to reach mastery, then spending ages collecting / buying skilltapes to create your crafting outfit....very tedious. Then actually crafting....its mostly tweaking ingrediants and experimenting a bit, not very engaging.
But, once you'd reached mastery, got your outfit and got in a rhythm of harvesting, crafting then became a process of creating items that would actually sell and playing the market. It wasn't fun, but it was rewarding. With item decay and people constantly releveling professions, there was always a market for your goods. I never made it much past producing average weapons, but made a ton of money doing so before I dropped weaponsmithing. I was always in awe of just how great some crafters were. I would grind missions for weeks just to be able to buy a single item for a top crafter.
I am hoping that CU brings some of that magic back again. All gear will be crafted by dedicated crafting classes so the economy will be good again. The CUBE system is going to be awesome for building-focused crafters.
Loved Star Wars Galaxies crafting. Not been able to find anything near as good since.
There is nothing out there and hasn't been regardless of what some of these noobs in this thread here say lol.
I know not everyone has played SWG but if they had they would know there is nothing with a complex resource spawn system, unit quality, based on planet/biome ect ect that I am aware of in existence, nor has there been since. Being able to title your weapons with your own brand and have your characters name on it so everyone knew who made it was rewarding.
Everyone for the most part was able to craft different quality items; no two were exactly alike. Most games you throw a few items into a window and presto, instant weapon that was the same is the guy standing next to you. In the SWG list of ingredients was mind boggling at times and you sometimes needed other crafters to produce the precraft items for a build. Once you had a well crafted item, you could mass produce copies of your most epic build in a factory. What other MMOs can you do that in?
There is one MMORPG I have seen that might actually get launched called Rebel Horizon and the developers stated on their site that your will be able to keep your harvesters running while off-line, also the bonus of allowing them to be fully upgradable. http://rebelhorizons.com/ worth watching I guess.
Vanguard was the best!! by FAR.. sorry, but its because:
- the world was HUGE!!! no instances! sandbox style roaming enabling any level to harvest nodes anywhere so long as they were willing to take the risk. Finding rare nodes always was exciting! Was always interesting to explore, especially if you may find PVP (if you chose that server).
- special harvesting gear, bard class that was simply fun as hell to travel with because of run speed buff, and harvesting bonuses for being in a group (so the more friends with you, the better!)... the graphics while harvesting and effects pretty good too.
- 3 huge continents filled with random crafting quests spread out all over and you could take them all! Some quests were only obtainable from "evil" areas for your faction (like dark elf for example just like in EQ) so you had to find ways to get past the guards, etc. sometimes which could get complicated. It was also faster to level by exploring various crafting areas and taking certain work orders then moving onto the next spot. There were hundreds (thousand or more?) work orders at almost every crafting spot, and always a dozen or more to choose from worth doing for your present situation.
- you didn't need to level your character in adventuring PVE at all to reach best crafting and there were half a dozen specializations to choose from, each being a huge grind to reach the end, so being high level in any type of crafting could be considered a big deal.
- the act of crafting at the workbench was FUN! The game involved within the game has topped all other in terms of difficulty, having to pay attention while enjoying it, and being creative in reaching certain grades or customizing your techniques in so many different ways. Not like anyone shared the best techniques.... and it always changes as you progressed.
- in the FFA PVP server you needed crafted gear specially crafted for each of your twinks to have the BEST GEAR POSSIBLE!!! I had a level 8 cleric that could solo a group of level 16s ffs!! mwahaha ; D and if you were over level 6 than you could encounter PVP while crafting often (although it may disrupt what you a re doing so if its important, might want a friend nearby to keep watch... exciting!) having all types of crafters really helped in the FFA PVP server... was a pretty big deal for your friends... because I think crafters ruled or at least spent a couple years fighting on the anarchist PK crafter side..
- PLENTY OF THINGS TO MAKE!!! WOW! lot of time put into the different icons, options, objects, equipment, etc. many pixels worth dedicated for crafters. Housing stuff, boats (was first game with boats at the time I think?)
- the sounds of the people around me while crafting and the atmosphere was fun! Much better than any other game I've played. The voices, etc. noises... really funny and cute sometimes, especially if you are a psionicist and can change your race whenever you want and try all the different emotes because you are that nerdy. The areas were just always bustling with activity and people to meet.
damn that was a big post... but FCK GAME IS GONE! FCK YOU ALL! BRING IT BACK!!
:.(..
I would totally level up crafting again just for fun, even if NOBODY else played... seriously...
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I'm not much of a crafter myself and don't have the widest experience with MMOs, so my vote is obviously biased.
I've personally never played a game where crafting is fun. I've played games where crafting was rewarding (because you create something special, or make money) but the actual gameplay of crafting has always sucked for me.
So, when I think of good crafting systems, I am looking for systems which allow the following:
A genuine, player led economy which places demands on every crafting profession
A wide variety of items that can be crafted.
The ability for a crafter to distinguish themselves in comparison to other crafters
The ability for a crafter to play the game as just a crafter
As the majority of modern MMOs are loot based, it invalidates the majority of crafting systems as the output is worthless. As the majority of crafting systems are based on rigid recipes, they can also be written off as every crafter is the same.
So, SWG is the only MMO I've played which meets my criteria for a good system. I still found the actual process of crafting boring - having to constantly survey for new harvesting grounds, grinding 50k items to reach mastery, then spending ages collecting / buying skilltapes to create your crafting outfit....very tedious. Then actually crafting....its mostly tweaking ingrediants and experimenting a bit, not very engaging.
But, once you'd reached mastery, got your outfit and got in a rhythm of harvesting, crafting then became a process of creating items that would actually sell and playing the market. It wasn't fun, but it was rewarding. With item decay and people constantly releveling professions, there was always a market for your goods. I never made it much past producing average weapons, but made a ton of money doing so before I dropped weaponsmithing. I was always in awe of just how great some crafters were. I would grind missions for weeks just to be able to buy a single item for a top crafter.
I am hoping that CU brings some of that magic back again. All gear will be crafted by dedicated crafting classes so the economy will be good again. The CUBE system is going to be awesome for building-focused crafters.
My brother was the top armorsmith on our server and made millions upon millions of credits. It was cool just to experience that vicariously through him. He would take his fortune and hunt down the best materials and either harvest them or pay handsomely for them.
UO didn't make your list, but I would argue it is top 3 crafting easy. I don't want to just say it's the best because I think the top 3 end up coming down to player preference more so than, "this one did it better."
But in all seriousness, how did UO not make this list?
is your mmo experience that limited that you decided to put games like Ryzom, Mortal Online and Fallen Earth.. Vanguard... on your list. Get a better list. You insulted me with your choices.
Vanguard was the best!! by FAR.. sorry, but its because:
- the world was HUGE!!! no instances! sandbox style roaming enabling any level to harvest nodes anywhere so long as they were willing to take the risk. Finding rare nodes always was exciting! Was always interesting to explore, especially if you may find PVP (if you chose that server).
- special harvesting gear, bard class that was simply fun as hell to travel with because of run speed buff, and harvesting bonuses for being in a group (so the more friends with you, the better!)... the graphics while harvesting and effects pretty good too.
- 3 huge continents filled with random crafting quests spread out all over and you could take them all! Some quests were only obtainable from "evil" areas for your faction (like dark elf for example just like in EQ) so you had to find ways to get past the guards, etc. sometimes which could get complicated. It was also faster to level by exploring various crafting areas and taking certain work orders then moving onto the next spot. There were hundreds (thousand or more?) work orders at almost every crafting spot, and always a dozen or more to choose from worth doing for your present situation.
- you didn't need to level your character in adventuring PVE at all to reach best crafting and there were half a dozen specializations to choose from, each being a huge grind to reach the end, so being high level in any type of crafting could be considered a big deal.
- the act of crafting at the workbench was FUN! The game involved within the game has topped all other in terms of difficulty, having to pay attention while enjoying it, and being creative in reaching certain grades or customizing your techniques in so many different ways. Not like anyone shared the best techniques.... and it always changes as you progressed.
- in the FFA PVP server you needed crafted gear specially crafted for each of your twinks to have the BEST GEAR POSSIBLE!!! I had a level 8 cleric that could solo a group of level 16s ffs!! mwahaha ; D and if you were over level 6 than you could encounter PVP while crafting often (although it may disrupt what you a re doing so if its important, might want a friend nearby to keep watch... exciting!) having all types of crafters really helped in the FFA PVP server... was a pretty big deal for your friends... because I think crafters ruled or at least spent a couple years fighting on the anarchist PK crafter side..
- PLENTY OF THINGS TO MAKE!!! WOW! lot of time put into the different icons, options, objects, equipment, etc. many pixels worth dedicated for crafters. Housing stuff, boats (was first game with boats at the time I think?)
- the sounds of the people around me while crafting and the atmosphere was fun! Much better than any other game I've played. The voices, etc. noises... really funny and cute sometimes, especially if you are a psionicist and can change your race whenever you want and try all the different emotes because you are that nerdy. The areas were just always bustling with activity and people to meet.
damn that was a big post... but FCK GAME IS GONE! FCK YOU ALL! BRING IT BACK!!
:.(..
I would totally level up crafting again just for fun, even if NOBODY else played... seriously...
While I agree that Vanguard had a great crafting system, I disagree about not needing PVE to do it. This only worked if you had a main PVE toon and you crafted on an alt. Without it , it was just not worth the hassle getting to the good harvest spots and writs/quest locations.
I loved Vanguard and it is one of the few lvl based MMO's where I went full out with crafting, but it was not all that rose coloury as you described. Large part of those huge continents barely had content , there were a ridiculous amount of bugs and the unstable client (memory leaks) was very badly optimized.
It is sad that its always the more unique MMO's like Vanguard that don't get proper financial funding and get released way too soon
It is telling that ESO scores this high. It is probably because it is popular atm. I like the game and the crafting is ok (I maxed all 6 on one toon), but its kind of mediocre in terms of crafting. The crafting customisation (traits/set) is quite limited, but then there are not many stats to begin with. The gathering can't be more basic. It is just your run of the mill node hunting. The crafted gear is definitely useful, at least for lvl50+160cp gear. But that is like a basic requirement for any decent crafting system. It doesn't let you preview gear before crafting, you can't link recipes in chat, let alone that people can preview the linked item (which is a total pain for those new furniture recipes). It is basically made like a singleplayer game crafting system. The housing update made ESO crafting worse though. Furnitures are divided over the 6 crafting skills in a nonsensical way, with skill and resources requirements that are ridiculous. The master writ system is a stupid grind for nothing really interesting. I mean, even the crafting stations that you can get for your house are not really practical to have (even tuned). It is just another loading screen to a place without bank access.
So I guess that many ESO players never crafted in SWG,Vanguard or EQ2.
Everytime a MMO now comes up with housing or some half decent crafting system, people act as if its the best thing ever. But it is just the same reinvented crappy wheel from devs that somehow dont understand what was great about the classic crafting games (SWG, UO, Vanguard etc).
I've been playing a lot of FFXIV and the crafting is super fun. Having individual classes with individual gear for each crafting type is awesome, plus you gain skills as you level the crafting class which can be used on the hotbar, it's just pretty cool having a crafting class treated like a non crafting class.
is your mmo experience that limited that you decided to put games like Ryzom, Mortal Online and Fallen Earth.. Vanguard... on your list. Get a better list. You insulted me with your choices.
Seriously? Crafting was pretty good in all of those games... list is missing a few things, sure, but good crafting is good crafting, whether the rest of the game is playable or not lol
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Comments
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
People wonder what is happening to the MMO space? this is happening
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I've personally never played a game where crafting is fun. I've played games where crafting was rewarding (because you create something special, or make money) but the actual gameplay of crafting has always sucked for me.
So, when I think of good crafting systems, I am looking for systems which allow the following:
- A genuine, player led economy which places demands on every crafting profession
- A wide variety of items that can be crafted.
- The ability for a crafter to distinguish themselves in comparison to other crafters
- The ability for a crafter to play the game as just a crafter
As the majority of modern MMOs are loot based, it invalidates the majority of crafting systems as the output is worthless. As the majority of crafting systems are based on rigid recipes, they can also be written off as every crafter is the same.So, SWG is the only MMO I've played which meets my criteria for a good system. I still found the actual process of crafting boring - having to constantly survey for new harvesting grounds, grinding 50k items to reach mastery, then spending ages collecting / buying skilltapes to create your crafting outfit....very tedious. Then actually crafting....its mostly tweaking ingrediants and experimenting a bit, not very engaging.
But, once you'd reached mastery, got your outfit and got in a rhythm of harvesting, crafting then became a process of creating items that would actually sell and playing the market. It wasn't fun, but it was rewarding. With item decay and people constantly releveling professions, there was always a market for your goods. I never made it much past producing average weapons, but made a ton of money doing so before I dropped weaponsmithing. I was always in awe of just how great some crafters were. I would grind missions for weeks just to be able to buy a single item for a top crafter.
I am hoping that CU brings some of that magic back again. All gear will be crafted by dedicated crafting classes so the economy will be good again. The CUBE system is going to be awesome for building-focused crafters.
I know not everyone has played SWG but if they had they would know there is nothing with a complex resource spawn system, unit quality, based on planet/biome ect ect that I am aware of in existence, nor has there been since. Being able to title your weapons with your own brand and have your characters name on it so everyone knew who made it was rewarding.
Everyone for the most part was able to craft different quality items; no two were exactly alike. Most games you throw a few items into a window and presto, instant weapon that was the same is the guy standing next to you. In the SWG list of ingredients was mind boggling at times and you sometimes needed other crafters to produce the precraft items for a build. Once you had a well crafted item, you could mass produce copies of your most epic build in a factory. What other MMOs can you do that in?
There is one MMORPG I have seen that might actually get launched called Rebel Horizon and the developers stated on their site that your will be able to keep your harvesters running while off-line, also the bonus of allowing them to be fully upgradable. http://rebelhorizons.com/ worth watching I guess.
- the world was HUGE!!! no instances! sandbox style roaming enabling any level to harvest nodes anywhere so long as they were willing to take the risk. Finding rare nodes always was exciting! Was always interesting to explore, especially if you may find PVP (if you chose that server).
- special harvesting gear, bard class that was simply fun as hell to travel with because of run speed buff, and harvesting bonuses for being in a group (so the more friends with you, the better!)... the graphics while harvesting and effects pretty good too.
- 3 huge continents filled with random crafting quests spread out all over and you could take them all! Some quests were only obtainable from "evil" areas for your faction (like dark elf for example just like in EQ) so you had to find ways to get past the guards, etc. sometimes which could get complicated. It was also faster to level by exploring various crafting areas and taking certain work orders then moving onto the next spot. There were hundreds (thousand or more?) work orders at almost every crafting spot, and always a dozen or more to choose from worth doing for your present situation.
- you didn't need to level your character in adventuring PVE at all to reach best crafting and there were half a dozen specializations to choose from, each being a huge grind to reach the end, so being high level in any type of crafting could be considered a big deal.
- the act of crafting at the workbench was FUN! The game involved within the game has topped all other in terms of difficulty, having to pay attention while enjoying it, and being creative in reaching certain grades or customizing your techniques in so many different ways. Not like anyone shared the best techniques.... and it always changes as you progressed.
- in the FFA PVP server you needed crafted gear specially crafted for each of your twinks to have the BEST GEAR POSSIBLE!!! I had a level 8 cleric that could solo a group of level 16s ffs!! mwahaha ; D and if you were over level 6 than you could encounter PVP while crafting often (although it may disrupt what you a re doing so if its important, might want a friend nearby to keep watch... exciting!) having all types of crafters really helped in the FFA PVP server... was a pretty big deal for your friends... because I think crafters ruled or at least spent a couple years fighting on the anarchist PK crafter side..
- PLENTY OF THINGS TO MAKE!!! WOW! lot of time put into the different icons, options, objects, equipment, etc. many pixels worth dedicated for crafters. Housing stuff, boats (was first game with boats at the time I think?)
- the sounds of the people around me while crafting and the atmosphere was fun! Much better than any other game I've played. The voices, etc. noises... really funny and cute sometimes, especially if you are a psionicist and can change your race whenever you want and try all the different emotes because you are that nerdy. The areas were just always bustling with activity and people to meet.
damn that was a big post... but FCK GAME IS GONE! FCK YOU ALL! BRING IT BACK!!
:.(..
I would totally level up crafting again just for fun, even if NOBODY else played... seriously...
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
But in all seriousness, how did UO not make this list?
I loved Vanguard and it is one of the few lvl based MMO's where I went full out with crafting, but it was not all that rose coloury as you described. Large part of those huge continents barely had content , there were a ridiculous amount of bugs and the unstable client (memory leaks) was very badly optimized.
It is sad that its always the more unique MMO's like Vanguard that don't get proper financial funding and get released way too soon
The crafting customisation (traits/set) is quite limited, but then there are not many stats to begin with. The gathering can't be more basic. It is just your run of the mill node hunting. The crafted gear is definitely useful, at least for lvl50+160cp gear. But that is like a basic requirement for any decent crafting system.
It doesn't let you preview gear before crafting, you can't link recipes in chat, let alone that people can preview the linked item (which is a total pain for those new furniture recipes). It is basically made like a singleplayer game crafting system.
The housing update made ESO crafting worse though. Furnitures are divided over the 6 crafting skills in a nonsensical way, with skill and resources requirements that are ridiculous. The master writ system is a stupid grind for nothing really interesting. I mean, even the crafting stations that you can get for your house are not really practical to have (even tuned). It is just another loading screen to a place without bank access.
So I guess that many ESO players never crafted in SWG,Vanguard or EQ2.
Everytime a MMO now comes up with housing or some half decent crafting system, people act as if its the best thing ever. But it is just the same reinvented crappy wheel from devs that somehow dont understand what was great about the classic crafting games (SWG, UO, Vanguard etc).
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA