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Elder Scrolls Online Articles - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited February 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageElder Scrolls Online Articles - MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,439
    Nice piece Rob. I don't really find the value in subbing based on how casual I play. Though subbing for a couple of months to collect crowns and experience some DLC is nice.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,333
    I still love ESO.

    I don't sub, but I buy the DLC, and plan on the expansion. I like the B2P model personally.
  • DijonCyanideDijonCyanide Member UncommonPosts: 586
    Really good article analyzing the positives & negatives of being a sub or not to ESO & to any MMO actually. To each their own, but all of us can only make the best decision for ourselves with the best information we have collected & this definitely can help for any of those considering to sub or not to sub & when to sub.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,056
    I only bought the base game. Never subbed or bought any DLC, and I've had a lot of fun with the game.
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    I was just at ZOS for some Morrowind coverage coming next week, and I asked Rich, Matt, and Brian all the same question: with one of four DLC as part of the sub going out of the ESO Plus benefits, what are you going to do to keep making the sub attractive? Each one of them couldn't say specifics, but they did say they're cooking up ideas now.

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    I have no problem with designating $12.99 worth of disposable income each month for a game sub. Right now it's going to an ESO sub. The crafting bag is worth it to me. I bought the game and played a month without the sub. Inventory management in ESO was not fun for me. So I took the plunge and bought a 6 month sub. I got all my crowns in advance and used them to but the Imperial Edition, and the Shadows of Hist DLC. I got the rest of the DLC via the Gold Edition I bought on sale awhile back. I'm really enjoying the game so far.
  • gipfeligipfeli Member UncommonPosts: 98
    laserit said:
    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub
    have you never bought an addon for an mmo you paid sub before?

    wow? daoc? eq... swg... ?

    i would agree if the "morrowind" zone would be the same as the existing zones. but i've read (can anyone confirm that??) that the morrowind zone is the actual size (1:1) of the morrowind standalone game? i mean.. that's massive!

    and also that you will still receive dlc's with your subscription after the morrowind chapter (3 dlc's a year?)

    i do understand the cash shop hate though.. i really really dislike it too. it's an ever increasing thing in mmo's though :(. i blame mobile gaming for this. burn candy crush, BURN!!
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,265
    edited February 2017
    I'm just disappointed that they keep pushing the sub. They failed as a P2P game for a reason. The way they keep pushing the sub it's like they're barely a B2P game.

    I don't want to ever pay a sub for any game. I find far more value in spending that money on a costume, or DLC, or piece of content I'll have forever on all of my characters - not fleeting benefits that I may not even make full use of that month. I want to pick and choose when I support them and have the freedom of coming and going from a game as my playtime allows without losing on potential benefits and features because I haven't subbed.

    One of ESO's initial attractions was it's B2P nature but for the past year they've been pushing the subscription more and more. All they're doing is pushing me further and further away. It's very disappointing. ZOS needs to stop being so money hungry and be more customer friendly. We're willing to stick around and we're willing to give you money, but let it be on OUR terms. We're tired of P2P games and we told all of you game devs that years ago. WAKE UP and listen for once.
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854
    I'd already preordered this three years ago, i forget they went B2P. From my past with mmo's, i'm so used to paying a sub that any mmo i play i sub up i can't be bothered with the can and cannot restriction game.
    I do appreciate, especially here, where i get a monthly allowance for cash shop items, which again from my past it may as well not even be there, super rare for me to even open the cash shop lol, and even more rare i'd buy anything so the crowns in this case only pile up over time, but... sometimes something comes along and i'll be like yep i'd like that and have the crowns to get it at no extra cost to me outside my monthly sub. Which is nice.
    Oh and Great Article, Thanks!
    My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022

    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Currently Playing; Dragonflight and SWG:L
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    gipfeli said:
    laserit said:
    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub
    have you never bought an addon for an mmo you paid sub before?

    wow? daoc? eq... swg... ?

    i would agree if the "morrowind" zone would be the same as the existing zones. but i've read (can anyone confirm that??) that the morrowind zone is the actual size (1:1) of the morrowind standalone game? i mean.. that's massive!

    and also that you will still receive dlc's with your subscription after the morrowind chapter (3 dlc's a year?)

    i do understand the cash shop hate though.. i really really dislike it too. it's an ever increasing thing in mmo's though :(. i blame mobile gaming for this. burn candy crush, BURN!!
    I like to be immersed in a game. Buying outfits, pets, potions, furniture, ect. ect. totally kills immersion. I can live with it but I'm not interested in buying the stuff. I just want to play and I don't have a problem paying for that honor.

    As far as the Sub, Crown, DLC, Chapter, Money thing goes:

    You buy Crowns with Money

    You buy Morrowind expansion with Money

    Crowns are sold by Zenimax

    Morrowind expansion is sold by Zenimax

    The bottom line is:

    Zenimax is not happy with my spending of $15 per month. They want more.





    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • gipfeligipfeli Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Leiloni said:
    I'm just disappointed that they keep pushing the sub. They failed as a P2P game for a reason. The way they keep pushing the sub it's like they're barely a B2P game.

    I don't want to ever pay a sub for any game. I find far more value in spending that money on a costume, or DLC, or piece of content I'll have forever on all of my characters - not fleeting benefits that I may not even make full use of that month. I want to pick and choose when I support them and have the freedom of coming and going from a game as my playtime allows without losing on potential benefits and features because I haven't subbed.

    One of ESO's initial attractions was it's B2P nature but for the past year they've been pushing the subscription more and more. All they're doing is pushing me further and further away. It's very disappointing. ZOS needs to stop being so money hungry and be more customer friendly. We're willing to stick around and we're willing to give you money, but let it be on OUR terms. We're tired of P2P games and we told all of you game devs that years ago. WAKE UP and listen for once.
    where is eso forcing you to sub? the crafting bag is the only thing i can think of.

    all the dlc's can be bought, the new chapter can (must) be bought. you pay once and then you have them for no more sub fee.

    even if you sub once, they don't grab your character and hold it prison until you pay again. you can just unsub and still play, you just lose the ability to put something INSIDE the crafting bag (you can still take out the stuff you put in).

    eso and poe are the only free / non-sub games i really like the payment model.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    edited February 2017
    laserit said:
    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub
    I agree. DLC will now of course lean toward the smallish ones, especially since the main reason for the change Firor cited in his Welcome to 2017 article was that they couldn't keep up the pace of 4 DLC per year. It's hard to imagine that if they were struggling to keep that pace, having 3 DLC and 1 chapter per year is going to be any easier unless the 3 DLC are small additions such as the last one they had that where they just added 2 dungeons. The days of the Orsinium sized DLC are over.

    I was saving my stockpiled crowns from ESO+ for housing but I'm underwhelmed by the housing features. So in the end I also just bought the DLC like you did.


    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • jimbobfurleyjimbobfurley Member UncommonPosts: 104
    I played ESO at launch, but not long after, left the game. Have not been back since, but am now think of re-subbing. What is this about "Chapters" ? Does this potentially impact my sub fee ? Curious ...

    image
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680


    Nice piece Rob. I don't really find the value in subbing based on how casual I play. Though subbing for a couple of months to collect crowns and experience some DLC is nice.



    I would never sub.to ESO again. Logging in to the game is like RNG. Maybe you get in maybe not. And it get worse with every update.
  • SjorAndSkySjorAndSky Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Hariken said:





    Nice piece Rob. I don't really find the value in subbing based on how casual I play. Though subbing for a couple of months to collect crowns and experience some DLC is nice.






    I would never sub.to ESO again. Logging in to the game is like RNG. Maybe you get in maybe not. And it get worse with every update.



    Me nor any of my guildmates (Very spread out, one being in Germany, One in the airforce in Korea, another in Finland and myself and a buddy in the states) have no issues whatsoever getting into the game.

    I'm thinking it's issues on your side. Old router?

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub
    I agree. DLC will now of course lean toward the smallish ones, especially since the main reason for the change Firor cited in his Welcome to 2017 article was that they couldn't keep up the pace of 4 DLC per year. It's hard to imagine that if they were struggling to keep that pace, having 3 DLC and 1 chapter per year is going to be any easier unless the 3 DLC are small additions such as the last one they had that where they just added 2 dungeons. The days of the Orsinium sized DLC are over.

    I was saving my stockpiled crowns from ESO+ for housing but I'm underwhelmed by the housing features. So in the end I also just bought the DLC like you did.


    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo

    I think if they would have included "Chapters" in a subscription, exactly like they have with the DLC. They could have increased their subscriber base substantially. It takes less than 3 months of sub for Zenimax to offset the $40.00

    They could have made a sub more appealing instead of less.

    To think that before the RNG box bullshit  I was praising them for having the best consumer freindly business model in the Industry.

    A little success sure changes things.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DrisdaneDrisdane Member UncommonPosts: 97
    I have no issues paying a sub. It is my preferred play model. It is too easy to spend money on micro transactions to advance in other games. Trove is a great example for me. Pretty sure I have dumped $2,600 into that game just for gems and diamond eggs. That is the equivalent of 14.4 years worth of $15/month game subs, all to buy stuff that should be readily available, and accessible, in a game anyway.

    The disposable income has never been an issue. It has always been about whether or not I feel that value is gained by spending my money. In the case of ESO, $15/month is an easy decision, even if I only play a few days per month. You get crowns to spend, valued at $12/month (I will just stick to Robert's math here). So I am essentially spending $3/month for quality of life improvements. Honestly, inventory management is HUGE. The more bag space I have, the less time that I have to spend at vendors. So, what is your free time worth? I would say that $15 a month is well worth not having to hit the vendors to clean my bags every 10-15 minutes. That may just be me.

    After having said all of this, I tend to always revert to the same metric... A 3 hour trip to the bar on a Saturday night will usually cost me $100-$150. I will be giving and use $100. Essentially, that is $15 every 27 minutes at that bar. So my thought on it is this: If I spend more than 27 minutes in-game per month, then I have officially gotten my money's worth. If we are looking at it from the perspective of the remaining $3 (The value after subtracting the crowns cost), then I only need to spend 5.4 minutes in-game to get my value out of it each month. Realistically, I spend 20-60 hours a month in-game, so I am definitely getting my value.

    At the end of the day, it is all about what your time is worth to you.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited February 2017
    laserit said:

    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo

    I think if they would have included "Chapters" in a subscription, exactly like they have with the DLC. They could have increased their subscriber base substantially. It takes less than 3 months of sub for Zenimax to offset the $40.00

    They could have made a sub more appealing instead of less.

    To think that before the RNG box bullshit  I was praising them for having the best consumer freindly business model in the Industry.

    A little success sure changes things.
    I think the real problem from their perspective is doing it as they have been, the sub option makes it a bit too easy to skirt the cost of story based DLC. I think that's where this change is coming from. They want everyone to pay that 40$ price tag. 30 hours of story content is nothing in a months time after all. If people could just sub, they'd pay the 15 bucks, play through the story and drop the sub. I wouldn't be surprised if the future DLC becomes more system oriented rather than quest oriented, it's easier to push expanded game-play or quality of life  features for ongoing costs. Which pushes more DLC purchases and subs. 

    They seem to be going into sustainability mode really. Push awesome deals for a bit to lure in a bunch of customers, then settle into a more realistic cost effective profitable future. Which we kinda have to take as it is, looking out for their interests not the consumers. 




    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    laserit said:
    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo


    Yup. I don't think you and I were the only two that canceled.

    They announced their new scheme on January 31st and by Feb. 3rd they were already in damage control mode creating a new official thread asking for new ideas for benefits of ESO+

    Of course they probably had been meaning to ask us for our ideas about that for a while but just forgot. :)


    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:

    IMHO I believe Zenimax made a booboo

    I think if they would have included "Chapters" in a subscription, exactly like they have with the DLC. They could have increased their subscriber base substantially. It takes less than 3 months of sub for Zenimax to offset the $40.00

    They could have made a sub more appealing instead of less.

    To think that before the RNG box bullshit  I was praising them for having the best consumer freindly business model in the Industry.

    A little success sure changes things.
    I think the real problem from their perspective is doing it as they have been, the sub option makes it a bit too easy to skirt the cost of story based DLC. I think that's where this change is coming from. They want everyone to pay that 40$ price tag. 30 hours of story content is nothing in a months time after all. If people could just sub, they'd pay the 15 bucks, play through the story and drop the sub. I wouldn't be surprised if the future DLC becomes more system oriented rather than quest oriented, it's easier to push expanded game-play or quality of life  features for ongoing costs. Which pushes more DLC purchases and subs. 

    They seem to be going into sustainability mode really. Push awesome deals for a bit to lure in a bunch of customers, then settle into a more realistic cost effective profitable future. Which we kinda have to take as it is, looking out for their interests not the consumers. 




    Bait and Switch ;)

    You win some, you lose some.

    In my case, Zenimax will make 1/3 of what they used to.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 865
    I no longer sub to games. I don't find any value to it. I understand there is an upkeep, and I'm not a freeloader, but a monthly sub doesn't work anymore. I prefer to be able to buy something tangible and be happy with my purchase.

    I'd be more inclined to buy skins and cosmetics. I have spent a lot in GW2 on cosmetics.

    Personally, I think ESO has a great payment model. The problem is their cash shop is fairly lackluster and I have never spent a dime in it because nothing seems worth it.

    I bought the gold edition, and most likely will buy the expansion.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,680

    Hariken said:





    Nice piece Rob. I don't really find the value in subbing based on how casual I play. Though subbing for a couple of months to collect crowns and experience some DLC is nice.






    I would never sub.to ESO again. Logging in to the game is like RNG. Maybe you get in maybe not. And it get worse with every update.



    Me nor any of my guildmates (Very spread out, one being in Germany, One in the airforce in Korea, another in Finland and myself and a buddy in the states) have no issues whatsoever getting into the game.

    I'm thinking it's issues on your side. Old router?

    No its not on my end. Not when hundreds of other players have the same issue of long loading screen loops or getting kicked back to login once you get in. People have been dealing with this same crap since launch.
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854
    Let's also not forget...
    This is their first Expansion, and like every other mmo out there you have to pay cash in the first year, when the next Expansion comes out, then you can buy the previous expansion in the cash shop.
    So... those upset about not being able to use crowns, you can but you have to wait, just like every mmo out there, it's pretty much a standard, a de facto standard.
    My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022

    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Currently Playing; Dragonflight and SWG:L
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,539

    laserit said:


    gipfeli said:


    laserit said:

    If they would have let me purchase the Chapters with my Crowns, I would have remained subbed. I want to play a game not shop in a pixel mall. What do you think is going to happen with the size and substance of the DLC, Now that chapters are the new game plan?

    I purchased the existing DLC with my Crowns because it was the only thing I was remotely interested in.

    signed

    The Unsub


    have you never bought an addon for an mmo you paid sub before?

    wow? daoc? eq... swg... ?

    i would agree if the "morrowind" zone would be the same as the existing zones. but i've read (can anyone confirm that??) that the morrowind zone is the actual size (1:1) of the morrowind standalone game? i mean.. that's massive!

    and also that you will still receive dlc's with your subscription after the morrowind chapter (3 dlc's a year?)

    i do understand the cash shop hate though.. i really really dislike it too. it's an ever increasing thing in mmo's though :(. i blame mobile gaming for this. burn candy crush, BURN!!


    I like to be immersed in a game. Buying outfits, pets, potions, furniture, ect. ect. totally kills immersion. I can live with it but I'm not interested in buying the stuff. I just want to play and I don't have a problem paying for that honor.

    As far as the Sub, Crown, DLC, Chapter, Money thing goes:

    You buy Crowns with Money

    You buy Morrowind expansion with Money

    Crowns are sold by Zenimax

    Morrowind expansion is sold by Zenimax

    The bottom line is:

    Zenimax is not happy with my spending of $15 per month. They want more.








    Well yeah, $15 per month per customer is so 2004. :)

    They want to be averaging at least $25 per month by now.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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