With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.
And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.
Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There's something about that on their website. Basically they said Unreal 4 is very customizable so that's something they think they can adjust.
Unreal Engine 4 is designed to create small, fully-functional projects right out of the box. Since an MMO is a literal culmination of every extreme in game design, one might, quite understandably, balk at the idea of using UE4 for such a project. Fortunately, UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality. We have identified what we need to change – most notably, the network communication and level loading code – in order to get the gaming experience that is expected of a modern MMO.
Thanks for posting this.
"UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality."
I think it's inaccurate. Modifying multi-purpose engines is extremely time consuming, especially if the goal is to make the engine do something it's not intended for.
We can just think about all those Unreal and Unity games that lag with 50 people on screen, even though many engineers, millions of bucks and years of programming were thrown at the engine.
No game on Unity or Unreal 4 can support +100 players on screen with decent performances afaik. I doubt Ashes of Creation will succeed easily where multitudes failed.
Miracles happen from time to time though.
Unreal 4 is the new one. You're thinking about the old Unreal 3 that older games were using. I'm not sure any big name MMORPG's have come out with this yet. I think a few are using it but they're still in development. Unreal 4 wasn't released to developers until 2014, so I think we have yet to really see what it's capable of doing.
I'm talking about Unreal 4. Unreal 3 was used for some pretty big MMORPGs (DC Universe Online, Bless, B&S, Mortal Online, etc.) and had decent performances.
edit:
Daylight released in early 2014 and uses Unreal 4, so I guess that the developers had their hands on it a while before that.
For what UE4 is capable of, we can look at how Warhammer 40K: EC and ARK: Survival Evolved are doing performances wise with just a few players around, and imagine how it would look like with 200 players + catapults + the kind of graphics/lighting/VFX shown in the new video + castle walls being destroyed, etc.
Did you miss the part where the devs were going to make a ton of changes to the source code? I'm guessing those games used an out of the box version of the engine. They even said in the interview they're only using parts of the engine and essentially customizing a lot of it. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on wishing failure on a game we know little about. Read the facts and make judgements about how talented you think the team is, but that's all we can do right now.
I'm skeptic mostly because afaik no other studio has successfully modified a multi purpose engine to create a great MMORPG with solid performances in large scale battles while at the same time maintaining the kind of graphics fidelity the studio is aiming for.
And even if they were going with low poly models, sub-par lighting and VFX, lot of LoD and culling, etc. multi-purpose engines have proven time and time again to suck when there are many characters to render on screen, complex destruction of building, projectiles and all the kind of stuff we can see in AoC videos and that is featured in PvP mmorpgs. I have no reason to wait and see more players throwing their money for just one more impossible project. Lot of promises as usual, zero proof that it's possible to achieve it.
Look at Dual Universe, they're at least showing some hints that with the tech and engine they use, they may be able to pull off the whole thing. Same with Camelot Unchained. Pantheon: RotF have some realistic goals too imo. Saga of Lucimia also. Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal, etc.
But Chronicles of Elyria, Crowfall, Ashes of Creation and the like, way too many promises and Unreal / Unity can just do so much. They're meant for anything but MMORPGs featuring large-scale PvP.
edit: but who knows if they try hard they may be able to modify it enough so it can handle larger battles. We'll see!
Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order.
"Graphics will become important once castle sieges are implemented, because Lineage II's high-end graphics contribute to a nasty case of graphic slowdown. The netcode seems stable, without much lag, and the game runs well enough while hunting or questing or just hanging out.Some of the major cities, though, where there are a lot of graphically complicated people -- not to mention the world itself -- can easily turn the game into a slideshow. Based on my experience in the cities where I got hit with graphic slowdown when there were only 50 or 60 people in the area [...]"
"Cons: Terrible for small party/casual players; lag in graphically complicated areas [...]" Gamespy, 2004
"The game has minimal player-versus-player combat at this time. Right now, you mostly fight monsters." Gamespot, 2004
"However, unless you have a big rig, you'll be lagging all the way to high blood pressure, especially when running in a city crowded with people trying to sell their wares. I can only imagine the potential slowdown issues that will inevitably crop up during the upcoming Castle Sieges." Game Revolution, 2004
"I had an opportunity to try Lineage II on a few different hardware setups, and while I found that game is indeed mostly playable on a system just above the minimum system requirements, the second you move off the plains and into one of the more graphically complex areas, it turns in to a bloody slide show."
"Most of the graphics lag I experienced on the various systems seemed to be more dependent on the video card than the processor or memory. If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town, can you imagine what kind of performance you can expect in the middle of a dragon slaying let alone a siege, where you have dozens if not hundreds of players wailing on one another and blasting everything in sight with superb looking elemental magic?" Game Chronicles, 2004
So basically what you call great mass PvP probably happened later, and of course if someone plays a MMORPG that launched in 2004 with a decent computer of 2008-2009, the game should play smoothly. But it's not really indicative of what an engine can do.
Also it was UE2 and AoC is running on UE4, which are very different beasts. The budget of both games, Lineage 2 and AoE, are likely different too.
With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
So if it has good graphics it can't be an MMORPG? I also don't think they have anything that ambitious in the graphical department, not yet anyways.
I was just making my assumption on the fact that they intend to use a graphically intense engine. It's the Massive Multiplayer's online that disheartens me with this engine. I honestly wish them great success and will be the first to plunk down my money if I see progress.
Aori said: Just to add some context to those reviews, the lag they were encountering was because of the insane amount of players in one area.
"Based on my experience in the cities where I got hit with graphic slowdown when there were only 50 or 60 people in the area [...]" Gamespy, 2004
"If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town [...]" Game Chronicles, 2004
Aori said: I didn't have any graphical slowdowns until my first siege war on Lionna which had over 600 players involved and the server took it like a champ.
edit: The back-end server tech may have been great, idk about that, but the engine performances of Unreal 2 were criticized in many of the reviews.
Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order.
NCSoft is also using UE4 for the Project A2 people were speculating is Aion 2. Which would be interesting considering they went with a different engine for Aion.
With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.
And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.
Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.
It may not be hate but it's a lot of effort to make to prove that their skepticism is the obvious outcome. I'd say it goes a lot beyond skepticism especially since their entire argument is built on hyperbole. Add on that their prediction of failure is likely no matter what engine they're using. They just have a bonaphone onethat it can't be done in Unreal.
Not your first rodeo. Until the day this game successfully launches posters here will endlessly provide their reasoning on why this game can't be delivered as envisioned.
In all fairness there has yet to be a successful indie MMORPG title, Unreal does have a bad rep in this space, so scepticism is not really unwarranted. (no worse than optimism which has no real basis other than hope and promises)
Hyperbole is a hallmark of many on these forums, won't be going away any time soon.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."
Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.
So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.
Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.
It may not be hate but it's a lot of effort to make to prove that their skepticism is the obvious outcome. I'd say it goes a lot beyond skepticism especially since their entire argument is built on hyperbole. Add on that their prediction of failure is likely no matter what engine they're using. They just have a bonaphone onethat it can't be done in Unreal.
Not your first rodeo. Until the day this game successfully launches posters here will endlessly provide their reasoning on why this game can't be delivered as envisioned.
In all fairness there has yet to be a successful indie MMORPG title, Unreal does have a bad rep in this space, so scepticism is not really unwarranted. (no worse than optimism which has no real basis other than hope and promises)
Hyperbole is a hallmark of many on these forums, won't be going away any time soon.
I believe I haven't used hyperboles in my posts here, nor predicted or wished a failure for this game.
The TL;DR of my posts is:
The studio promises "massively multiplayer siege warfare" involving "hundreds of players on a single battlefield" with "many moving parts"
They show a video with intensive structure destruction and destruction effects during a siege
Then:
They upload a new video showing high fidelity graphics, VFX and lighting
They say they won't sacrifice aesthetics for performance because they believe today's technology can support both high fidelity graphics and great performances
However:
No other studio, even AAA, achieved that (let alone on a multi purpose engine)
The studio uses Unreal 4
The studio presumably doesn't have as much resources as AAA studios
It's easy to promises unrealistic stuff, ask other people to fund a portion of the project, later find excuses for failing to deliver. Anybody can do that and it has been done over and over again. The issue today is that the tools to make people believe in the feasibility of an unfeasible project are available at low cost. People build demos, create scenes, blend some good cinematic with what they call "gameplay", release a trailer and tadam, that looks like a reasonable, realistic, feasible project. But when we look at it more closely: relatively low budget, relatively small team, unsuited engine, lot of promises, lot of shinies.
Maybe they will show a prototype of siege with bots or something like that before their KS, like other upcoming MMOs have done.
I've played several Unreal 3 games and enjoyed them, even in mass PvP. I've also done mass PvP in a ton of games that didn't use Unreal who also had issues with mass PvP. So it's a non-issue for me. It's not an Unreal problem, it's something every developer struggles with. It's the nature of mass PvP. Frankly I don't need several hundred person battles anymore. It's just not fun to be part of a massive zerg. Whatever they do come up with will be fun I'm sure and I remain optimistic that they can do something good with this engine.
My biggest concern is this tab target/action hybrid they're doing. They really need to go with TERA style targeting, not tab targeting. That's going to be a deal breaker for me (and from what I can tell on their forums and other place online, it will be a deal breaker for many players). Not the engine. I honestly couldn't care less what engine is used, because I've played so many MMORPG's with so many different engines, so by now I know that a good game can be made in a lot of ways. But quality action combat is a make or break feature by now for most MMO players.
I've played several Unreal 3 games and enjoyed them, even in mass PvP. I've also done mass PvP in a ton of games that didn't use Unreal who also had issues with mass PvP. So it's a non-issue for me. It's not an Unreal problem, it's something every developer struggles with. It's the nature of mass PvP. Frankly I don't need several hundred person battles anymore. It's just not fun to be part of a massive zerg. Whatever they do come up with will be fun I'm sure and I remain optimistic that they can do something good with this engine.
I've got some questions for you regarding the several UE3 games with mass PvP that you played:
- Have hundreds of players participated in those mass PvP? - Did the graphics resemble to what is shown in the latest AoC video? - Did they feature structure destruction and siege engines? - Performance wise was it fluid (30+ fps) or a slide-show?
AoE is promising battlefields with hundreds of players, siege weapons & structure destruction with the kind of graphics shown in the latest video, all of this on Unreal 4.
"Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."
Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.
So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
Another PvP game. PvE games is getting rarer and rarer.
"Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."
Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.
So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
Another PvP game. PvE games is getting rarer and rarer.
That's not true. They've said there will be a lot of PvE content including instanced dungeons and a lot of sandboxy activities (can build and claim your own towns even). Just because PvP exists that doesn't mean PvE doesn't.
"Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."
Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.
So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
Another PvP game. PvE games is getting rarer and rarer.
That's not true. They've said there will be a lot of PvE content including instanced dungeons and a lot of sandboxy activities (can build and claim your own towns even). Just because PvP exists that doesn't mean PvE doesn't.
I think the comment was more along the lines of one can't enjoy the PVE without being subjected to forced PVP in some fashion, not that it didn't have PVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."
Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.
So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
Another PvP game. PvE games is getting rarer and rarer.
That's not true. They've said there will be a lot of PvE content including instanced dungeons and a lot of sandboxy activities (can build and claim your own towns even). Just because PvP exists that doesn't mean PvE doesn't.
I think the comment was more along the lines of one can't enjoy the PVE without being subjected to forced PVP in some fashion, not that it didn't have PVE.
Until we see it in action that's hard to say. They're doing some sort of flagging system and from my experience with similar systems, there will be little unwanted PK. People generally will be killing others that are flagged so they don't lose karma.
Edit: Also one thing I noticed is they seem to have a focus on guild vs guild conflict as opposed to faction conflict. This is how other games with these types of flagging systems generally work. What ends up happening is, like any other game, you have PvP guilds, PvE guilds, casual, hardcore, etc. So players not in PvP guilds will rarely get unwanted PvP unless they do something that's against the social rules of the game (i.e. in BDO if you steal someone's grind spot, you can expect a PK. So rules generally are don't be a jerk and people will leave you alone).
I played L2 and they had a flagging system there as well, with a similar karma system. People very rarely PKed others. I mean you wouldnt really ever see someone pking, it was mostly flagging up to fight and stuff.
also I have been reading the AoC stuff, seems like they want to have a heavy PvE focus from what they said in their QnA. They think PvP is the tool for change in the world, which I agree.
They seem to be on right path, I will watch and see. but I think I am optimistically cautionistic.
So exactly how much money has AoC raised from private investors thus far? Have they raised any money via licensing? How much is their target for Kickstarter? If they have so much money why Crowdfund at all?
When I Google Steven Sharif this is what comes up:
Cant use AoC for this.. maybe AshoC or something like it
Need to burn down that little personal corner and get with the program yo
Why don't we just call it .... Ashes of Creation ... because that's, ya know, the name of the game.
The overuse of acronyms in the gaming forum world is pointless and, at times, aggravating for newcomers who first have to figure out what all the acronyms mean before they can join the discussion.
Too hard to one hand type, sticking with what community does, Ashes.
Not really interested in what newcomers have to say until they take the time to learn the ropes as it were.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For PVP you need safe areas. If you remember in AION when there was no safe area's you had groups of riferters running around pvp'ing newbies and that's not a good thing. Plus if you have PVP you need to not allow level 25's able to rape level 50's. That was also an issue in AION. level 35's that got "twink" gear could own level 50-80's in full gear and wasn't a right.
Comments
Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And even if they were going with low poly models, sub-par lighting and VFX, lot of LoD and culling, etc. multi-purpose engines have proven time and time again to suck when there are many characters to render on screen, complex destruction of building, projectiles and all the kind of stuff we can see in AoC videos and that is featured in PvP mmorpgs. I have no reason to wait and see more players throwing their money for just one more impossible project. Lot of promises as usual, zero proof that it's possible to achieve it.
Look at Dual Universe, they're at least showing some hints that with the tech and engine they use, they may be able to pull off the whole thing. Same with Camelot Unchained. Pantheon: RotF have some realistic goals too imo. Saga of Lucimia also. Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal, etc.
But Chronicles of Elyria, Crowfall, Ashes of Creation and the like, way too many promises and Unreal / Unity can just do so much. They're meant for anything but MMORPGs featuring large-scale PvP.
edit: but who knows if they try hard they may be able to modify it enough so it can handle larger battles. We'll see!
"Cons: Terrible for small party/casual players; lag in graphically complicated areas [...]"
Gamespy, 2004
"The game has minimal player-versus-player combat at this time. Right now, you mostly fight monsters."
Gamespot, 2004
"However, unless you have a big rig, you'll be lagging all the way to high blood pressure, especially when running in a city crowded with people trying to sell their wares. I can only imagine the potential slowdown issues that will inevitably crop up during the upcoming Castle Sieges."
Game Revolution, 2004
"I had an opportunity to try Lineage II on a few different hardware setups, and while I found that game is indeed mostly playable on a system just above the minimum system requirements, the second you move off the plains and into one of the more graphically complex areas, it turns in to a bloody slide show."
"Most of the graphics lag I experienced on the various systems seemed to be more dependent on the video card than the processor or memory. If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town, can you imagine what kind of performance you can expect in the middle of a dragon slaying let alone a siege, where you have dozens if not hundreds of players wailing on one another and blasting everything in sight with superb looking elemental magic?"
Game Chronicles, 2004
So basically what you call great mass PvP probably happened later, and of course if someone plays a MMORPG that launched in 2004 with a decent computer of 2008-2009, the game should play smoothly. But it's not really indicative of what an engine can do.
Also it was UE2 and AoC is running on UE4, which are very different beasts. The budget of both games, Lineage 2 and AoE, are likely different too.
I was just making my assumption on the fact that they intend to use a graphically intense engine. It's the Massive Multiplayer's online that disheartens me with this engine. I honestly wish them great success and will be the first to plunk down my money if I see progress.
Gamespy, 2004
"If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town [...]"
Game Chronicles, 2004
edit: The back-end server tech may have been great, idk about that, but the engine performances of Unreal 2 were criticized in many of the reviews.
Yea, the breaking point is often mass PvP. =P
In all fairness there has yet to be a successful indie MMORPG title, Unreal does have a bad rep in this space, so scepticism is not really unwarranted. (no worse than optimism which has no real basis other than hope and promises)
Hyperbole is a hallmark of many on these forums, won't be going away any time soon.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
The TL;DR of my posts is:
- The studio promises "massively multiplayer siege warfare" involving "hundreds of players on a single battlefield" with "many moving parts"
- They show a video with intensive structure destruction and destruction effects during a siege
Then:- They upload a new video showing high fidelity graphics, VFX and lighting
- They say they won't sacrifice aesthetics for performance because they believe today's technology can support both high fidelity graphics and great performances
However:- No other studio, even AAA, achieved that (let alone on a multi purpose engine)
- The studio uses Unreal 4
- The studio presumably doesn't have as much resources as AAA studios
It's easy to promises unrealistic stuff, ask other people to fund a portion of the project, later find excuses for failing to deliver. Anybody can do that and it has been done over and over again. The issue today is that the tools to make people believe in the feasibility of an unfeasible project are available at low cost. People build demos, create scenes, blend some good cinematic with what they call "gameplay", release a trailer and tadam, that looks like a reasonable, realistic, feasible project. But when we look at it more closely: relatively low budget, relatively small team, unsuited engine, lot of promises, lot of shinies.Maybe they will show a prototype of siege with bots or something like that before their KS, like other upcoming MMOs have done.
That puts them instantly ahead ahead of any other indie mmorpg.
God's speed to them.
My biggest concern is this tab target/action hybrid they're doing. They really need to go with TERA style targeting, not tab targeting. That's going to be a deal breaker for me (and from what I can tell on their forums and other place online, it will be a deal breaker for many players). Not the engine. I honestly couldn't care less what engine is used, because I've played so many MMORPG's with so many different engines, so by now I know that a good game can be made in a lot of ways. But quality action combat is a make or break feature by now for most MMO players.
- Have hundreds of players participated in those mass PvP?
- Did the graphics resemble to what is shown in the latest AoC video?
- Did they feature structure destruction and siege engines?
- Performance wise was it fluid (30+ fps) or a slide-show?
AoE is promising battlefields with hundreds of players, siege weapons & structure destruction with the kind of graphics shown in the latest video, all of this on Unreal 4.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Edit: Also one thing I noticed is they seem to have a focus on guild vs guild conflict as opposed to faction conflict. This is how other games with these types of flagging systems generally work. What ends up happening is, like any other game, you have PvP guilds, PvE guilds, casual, hardcore, etc. So players not in PvP guilds will rarely get unwanted PvP unless they do something that's against the social rules of the game (i.e. in BDO if you steal someone's grind spot, you can expect a PK. So rules generally are don't be a jerk and people will leave you alone).
also I have been reading the AoC stuff, seems like they want to have a heavy PvE focus from what they said in their QnA. They think PvP is the tool for change in the world, which I agree.
They seem to be on right path, I will watch and see. but I think I am optimistically cautionistic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://crowfall.com/en/funding/
So exactly how much money has AoC raised from private investors thus far? Have they raised any money via licensing? How much is their target for Kickstarter? If they have so much money why Crowdfund at all?
When I Google Steven Sharif this is what comes up:
https://www.businessforhome.org/tag/sharon-steven-sharif/
Which leads me to this one:
http://www.xango.com/
Definitely does not give ME confidence... but to each their own.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Not really interested in what newcomers have to say until they take the time to learn the ropes as it were.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For PVP you need safe areas. If you remember in AION when there was no safe area's you had groups of riferters running around pvp'ing newbies and that's not a good thing. Plus if you have PVP you need to not allow level 25's able to rape level 50's. That was also an issue in AION. level 35's that got "twink" gear could own level 50-80's in full gear and wasn't a right.