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Skeptimistically Impressed - Ashes of Creation Columns

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  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    edited February 2017
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:

    There's something about that on their website. Basically they said Unreal 4 is very customizable so that's something they think they can adjust.

    Unreal Engine 4 is designed to create small, fully-functional projects right out of the box. Since an MMO is a literal culmination of every extreme in game design, one might, quite understandably, balk at the idea of using UE4 for such a project. Fortunately, UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality. We have identified what we need to change – most notably, the network communication and level loading code – in order to get the gaming experience that is expected of a modern MMO.

    Thanks for posting this.

    "UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality."

    I think it's inaccurate. Modifying multi-purpose engines is extremely time consuming, especially if the goal is to make the engine do something it's not intended for.

    We can just think about all those Unreal and Unity games that lag with 50 people on screen, even though many engineers, millions of bucks and years of programming were thrown at the engine.

    No game on Unity or Unreal 4 can support +100 players on screen with decent performances afaik. I doubt Ashes of Creation will succeed easily where multitudes failed.

    Miracles happen from time to time though.

    Unreal 4 is the new one. You're thinking about the old Unreal 3 that older games were using. I'm not sure any big name MMORPG's have come out with this yet. I think a few are using it but they're still in development. Unreal 4 wasn't released to developers until 2014, so I think we have yet to really see what it's capable of doing.
    I'm talking about Unreal 4. Unreal 3 was used for some pretty big MMORPGs (DC Universe Online, Bless, B&S, Mortal Online, etc.) and had decent performances. 

    edit:

    Daylight released in early 2014 and uses Unreal 4, so I guess that the developers had their hands on it a while before that.

    For what UE4 is capable of, we can look at how Warhammer 40K: EC and ARK: Survival Evolved are doing performances wise with just a few players around, and imagine how it would look like with 200 players + catapults + the kind of graphics/lighting/VFX shown in the new video + castle walls being destroyed, etc.
    Post edited by francis_baud on
    JamesGoblin
  • nationalcitynationalcity Member UncommonPosts: 501
    edited February 2017
    The problem is every game coming out now is trying to say all the right things... Player choice matters, you shape the world blah blah blah.... Maybe I'm also jaded like some others here but I will believe it when I see it....
  • healboothealboot Member UncommonPosts: 100
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
  • Kunai_VaxKunai_Vax Member RarePosts: 527
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    I have no doubt this will release. Question is will it have everything they are boasting. 

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,054
    AoC is taken, it's dumb to also call this game by an acronym already used. Ashes is the best option as it's nominally longer then AoC. 
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    Kunai_Vax said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    I have no doubt this will release. Question is will it have everything they are boasting. 
    Pretty sure the fans of Hailan Rising, Greed Monger, Repopulation, Divergence Online, Landmark, Pathfinder Online, Revival, EQ Next, Hero's Song, etc. believed that too.
  • Kunai_VaxKunai_Vax Member RarePosts: 527
    Kunai_Vax said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    I have no doubt this will release. Question is will it have everything they are boasting. 
    Pretty sure the fans of Hailan Rising, Greed Monger, Repopulation, Divergence Online, Landmark, Pathfinder Online, Revival, EQ Next, Hero's Song, etc. believed that too.
    Hahaha good point ;)


  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:

    There's something about that on their website. Basically they said Unreal 4 is very customizable so that's something they think they can adjust.

    Unreal Engine 4 is designed to create small, fully-functional projects right out of the box. Since an MMO is a literal culmination of every extreme in game design, one might, quite understandably, balk at the idea of using UE4 for such a project. Fortunately, UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality. We have identified what we need to change – most notably, the network communication and level loading code – in order to get the gaming experience that is expected of a modern MMO.

    Thanks for posting this.

    "UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality."

    I think it's inaccurate. Modifying multi-purpose engines is extremely time consuming, especially if the goal is to make the engine do something it's not intended for.

    We can just think about all those Unreal and Unity games that lag with 50 people on screen, even though many engineers, millions of bucks and years of programming were thrown at the engine.

    No game on Unity or Unreal 4 can support +100 players on screen with decent performances afaik. I doubt Ashes of Creation will succeed easily where multitudes failed.

    Miracles happen from time to time though.

    Unreal 4 is the new one. You're thinking about the old Unreal 3 that older games were using. I'm not sure any big name MMORPG's have come out with this yet. I think a few are using it but they're still in development. Unreal 4 wasn't released to developers until 2014, so I think we have yet to really see what it's capable of doing.
    I'm talking about Unreal 4. Unreal 3 was used for some pretty big MMORPGs (DC Universe Online, Bless, B&S, Mortal Online, etc.) and had decent performances. 

    edit:

    Daylight released in early 2014 and uses Unreal 4, so I guess that the developers had their hands on it a while before that.

    For what UE4 is capable of, we can look at how Warhammer 40K: EC and ARK: Survival Evolved are doing performances wise with just a few players around, and imagine how it would look like with 200 players + catapults + the kind of graphics/lighting/VFX shown in the new video + castle walls being destroyed, etc.
    Did you miss the part where the devs were going to make a ton of changes to the source code? I'm guessing those games used an out of the box version of the engine. They even said in the interview they're only using parts of the engine and essentially customizing a lot of it. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on wishing failure on a game we know little about. Read the facts and make judgements about how talented you think the team is, but that's all we can do right now.
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    So if it has good graphics it can't be an MMORPG? I also don't think they have anything that ambitious in the graphical department, not yet anyways. 
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    Leiloni said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
    Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.

    And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
    JamesGoblin
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    Leiloni said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
    Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.

    And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
    Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,979
    Leiloni said:
    francis_baud said:I eoildny
    Leiloni said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
    Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.

    And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
    Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
    I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.

    Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    edited February 2017
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:

    There's something about that on their website. Basically they said Unreal 4 is very customizable so that's something they think they can adjust.

    Unreal Engine 4 is designed to create small, fully-functional projects right out of the box. Since an MMO is a literal culmination of every extreme in game design, one might, quite understandably, balk at the idea of using UE4 for such a project. Fortunately, UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality. We have identified what we need to change – most notably, the network communication and level loading code – in order to get the gaming experience that is expected of a modern MMO.

    Thanks for posting this.

    "UE4 is easily modified at a source code level to allow for custom or extensive divergences from the default, small project functionality."

    I think it's inaccurate. Modifying multi-purpose engines is extremely time consuming, especially if the goal is to make the engine do something it's not intended for.

    We can just think about all those Unreal and Unity games that lag with 50 people on screen, even though many engineers, millions of bucks and years of programming were thrown at the engine.

    No game on Unity or Unreal 4 can support +100 players on screen with decent performances afaik. I doubt Ashes of Creation will succeed easily where multitudes failed.

    Miracles happen from time to time though.

    Unreal 4 is the new one. You're thinking about the old Unreal 3 that older games were using. I'm not sure any big name MMORPG's have come out with this yet. I think a few are using it but they're still in development. Unreal 4 wasn't released to developers until 2014, so I think we have yet to really see what it's capable of doing.
    I'm talking about Unreal 4. Unreal 3 was used for some pretty big MMORPGs (DC Universe Online, Bless, B&S, Mortal Online, etc.) and had decent performances. 

    edit:

    Daylight released in early 2014 and uses Unreal 4, so I guess that the developers had their hands on it a while before that.

    For what UE4 is capable of, we can look at how Warhammer 40K: EC and ARK: Survival Evolved are doing performances wise with just a few players around, and imagine how it would look like with 200 players + catapults + the kind of graphics/lighting/VFX shown in the new video + castle walls being destroyed, etc.
    Did you miss the part where the devs were going to make a ton of changes to the source code? I'm guessing those games used an out of the box version of the engine. They even said in the interview they're only using parts of the engine and essentially customizing a lot of it. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on wishing failure on a game we know little about. Read the facts and make judgements about how talented you think the team is, but that's all we can do right now.
    I'm skeptic mostly because afaik no other studio has successfully modified a multi purpose engine to create a great MMORPG with solid performances in large scale battles while at the same time maintaining the kind of graphics fidelity the studio is aiming for.

    And even if they were going with low poly models, sub-par lighting and VFX, lot of LoD and culling, etc. multi-purpose engines have proven time and time again to suck when there are many characters to render on screen, complex destruction of building, projectiles and all the kind of stuff we can see in AoC videos and that is featured in PvP mmorpgs. I have no reason to wait and see more players throwing their money for just one more impossible project. Lot of promises as usual, zero proof that it's possible to achieve it.

    Look at Dual Universe, they're at least showing some hints that with the tech and engine they use, they may be able to pull off the whole thing. Same with Camelot Unchained. Pantheon: RotF have some realistic goals too imo. Saga of Lucimia also. Gloria Victis, Life is Feudal, etc.

    But Chronicles of Elyria, Crowfall, Ashes of Creation and the like, way too many promises and Unreal / Unity can just do so much. They're meant for anything but MMORPGs featuring large-scale PvP.

    edit: but who knows if they try hard they may be able to modify it enough so it can handle larger battles. We'll see!
    JamesGoblin
  • LemureLemure Member UncommonPosts: 24
    Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order. 
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179
    Lemure said:
    Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order. 
    I wouldn't say great but it worked. Though if you can give me any modern game to produce the numbers Lineage did on the field at once and work, I'll be interested. Ashes isn't going to be that game though, not even close.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    Lemure said:
    Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order. 
    "Graphics will become important once castle sieges are implemented, because Lineage II's high-end graphics contribute to a nasty case of graphic slowdown. The netcode seems stable, without much lag, and the game runs well enough while hunting or questing or just hanging out. Some of the major cities, though, where there are a lot of graphically complicated people -- not to mention the world itself -- can easily turn the game into a slideshow. Based on my experience in the cities where I got hit with graphic slowdown when there were only 50 or 60 people in the area [...]"

    "Cons: Terrible for small party/casual players; lag in graphically complicated areas [...]"
    Gamespy, 2004

    "The game has minimal player-versus-player combat at this time. Right now, you mostly fight monsters."
    Gamespot, 2004

    "However, unless you have a big rig, you'll be lagging all the way to high blood pressure, especially when running in a city crowded with people trying to sell their wares. I can only imagine the potential slowdown issues that will inevitably crop up during the upcoming Castle Sieges."
    Game Revolution, 2004

    "I had an opportunity to try Lineage II on a few different hardware setups, and while I found that game is indeed mostly playable on a system just above the minimum system requirements, the second you move off the plains and into one of the more graphically complex areas, it turns in to a bloody slide show."

    "Most of the graphics lag I experienced on the various systems seemed to be more dependent on the video card than the processor or memory. If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town, can you imagine what kind of performance you can expect in the middle of a dragon slaying let alone a siege, where you have dozens if not hundreds of players wailing on one another and blasting everything in sight with superb looking elemental magic?"
    Game Chronicles, 2004

    So basically what you call great mass PvP probably happened later, and of course if someone plays a MMORPG that launched in 2004 with a decent computer of 2008-2009, the game should play smoothly. But it's not really indicative of what an engine can do.

    Also it was UE2 and AoC is running on UE4, which are very different beasts. The budget of both games, Lineage 2 and AoE, are likely different too.


    JamesGoblin
  • healboothealboot Member UncommonPosts: 100
    Aori said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    So if it has good graphics it can't be an MMORPG? I also don't think they have anything that ambitious in the graphical department, not yet anyways. 

    I was just making my assumption on the fact that they intend to use a graphically intense engine. It's the Massive Multiplayer's online that disheartens me with this engine. I honestly wish them great success and will be the first to plunk down my money if I see progress.

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179
    Lemure said:
    Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order. 
    "Graphics will become important once castle sieges are implemented, because Lineage II's high-end graphics contribute to a nasty case of graphic slowdown. The netcode seems stable, without much lag, and the game runs well enough while hunting or questing or just hanging out. Some of the major cities, though, where there are a lot of graphically complicated people -- not to mention the world itself -- can easily turn the game into a slideshow. Based on my experience in the cities where I got hit with graphic slowdown when there were only 50 or 60 people in the area [...]"

    "Cons: Terrible for small party/casual players; lag in graphically complicated areas [...]"
    Gamespy, 2004

    "The game has minimal player-versus-player combat at this time. Right now, you mostly fight monsters."
    Gamespot, 2004

    "However, unless you have a big rig, you'll be lagging all the way to high blood pressure, especially when running in a city crowded with people trying to sell their wares. I can only imagine the potential slowdown issues that will inevitably crop up during the upcoming Castle Sieges."
    Game Revolution, 2004

    "I had an opportunity to try Lineage II on a few different hardware setups, and while I found that game is indeed mostly playable on a system just above the minimum system requirements, the second you move off the plains and into one of the more graphically complex areas, it turns in to a bloody slide show."

    "Most of the graphics lag I experienced on the various systems seemed to be more dependent on the video card than the processor or memory. If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town, can you imagine what kind of performance you can expect in the middle of a dragon slaying let alone a siege, where you have dozens if not hundreds of players wailing on one another and blasting everything in sight with superb looking elemental magic?"
    Game Chronicles, 2004

    So basically what you call great mass PvP probably happened later, and of course if someone plays a MMORPG that launched in 2004 with a decent computer of 2008-2009, the game should play smoothly. But it's not really indicative of what an engine can do.

    Also it was UE2 and AoC is running on UE4, which are very different beasts. The budget of both games, Lineage 2 and AoE, are likely different too.


    Just to add some context to those reviews, the lag they were encountering was because of the insane amount of players in one area. I didn't have any graphical slowdowns until my first siege war on Lionna which had over 600 players involved and the server took it like a champ.

    I was already PvPing when I hit one of the larger Orc camps, I think was around 20. When I hit Cruma Tower, it was nonstop PvP from then on.

    Giran was the only city with issues but there was countless players there. It was a true MMOG.

    I always take the reviews of Korean or asian themed games with a grain of salt, there is heavy bias in them.

    No issues running the game on a system built in 2003 outside of mass PvP.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Kyleran said:
    Leiloni said:
    francis_baud said:I eoildny
    Leiloni said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
    Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.

    And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
    Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
    I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.

    Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.

    ;)
    It may not be hate but it's a lot of effort to make to prove that their skepticism is the obvious outcome. I'd say it goes a lot beyond skepticism especially since their entire argument is built on hyperbole. Add on that their prediction of failure is likely no matter what engine they're using. They just have a bonaphone onethat it can't be done in Unreal.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    edited February 2017
    Aori said:
    Just to add some context to those reviews, the lag they were encountering was because of the insane amount of players in one area.
    "Based on my experience in the cities where I got hit with graphic slowdown when there were only 50 or 60 people in the area [...]"
    Gamespy, 2004

    "If you get a drop in frame rate when you enter a lightly populated town [...]"
    Game Chronicles, 2004

    Aori said:
    I didn't have any graphical slowdowns until my first siege war on Lionna which had over 600 players involved and the server took it like a champ.
    edit: The back-end server tech may have been great, idk about that, but the engine performances of Unreal 2 were criticized in many of the reviews. 

    Aori said:
    No issues running the game on a system built in 2003 outside of mass PvP.

    Yea, the breaking point is often mass PvP. =P
    JamesGoblin
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    edited February 2017
    Lemure said:
    Lineage 2 used UE. Worked great for mass pvp. They modified it a lot. As I'm sure Ashes will. Less pessimism more skeptimistic optimism is in order. 
    NCSoft is also using UE4 for the Project A2 people were speculating is Aion 2. Which would be interesting considering they went with a different engine for Aion.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,979
    edited February 2017
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Leiloni said:
    francis_baud said:I eoildny
    Leiloni said:
    healboot said:
    With such ambitious graphics, I have no hope of this ever making it as a mmorpg.
    There's a lot of games with great graphics. I'm not sure that really affects anything. There's a lot of crap games and unfinished games with crap graphics. It doesn't dictate success or failure lol.
    Lot of games but very few MMORPGs.

    And those that do either lag or have custom built engines (e.g. Pearl Abyss' engine).
    Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
    I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.

    Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.

    ;)
    It may not be hate but it's a lot of effort to make to prove that their skepticism is the obvious outcome. I'd say it goes a lot beyond skepticism especially since their entire argument is built on hyperbole. Add on that their prediction of failure is likely no matter what engine they're using. They just have a bonaphone onethat it can't be done in Unreal.
    Not your first rodeo. Until the day this game successfully launches posters here will endlessly provide their reasoning on why this game can't be delivered as envisioned.

    In all fairness there has yet to be a successful indie MMORPG title, Unreal does have a bad rep in this space, so scepticism is not really unwarranted. (no worse than optimism which has no real basis other than hope and promises)

    Hyperbole is a hallmark of many on these forums, won't be going away any time soon. 

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 878

    SlyLoK said:


    Tiller said:



    SlyLoK said:


    Please have optional PvP or PvE servers.






    From the website-



    "Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose."

    Sounds a bit like SWG, which is a plus.


    So certain areas will be forced PvP? I dont fully understand I guess.



    It sounds like it will be a PVP focused game. If there is any PVE it's probably just to have some sheep for the slaughter.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 242
    edited February 2017
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Leiloni said:
    Why is there so much hate with some people here for a game and a team they know nothing about? Can't you just say "hmm interesting ideas, I wish them well'? Nothing to lose there. I'm not sure why you insist on hoping for failure and finding desperately for something to dislike. Do you even enjoy gaming? It's supposed to be fun.
    I wouldn't exactly call his statements hate, he's just expessing skepticism this studio can pull off what few, if any have done before.

    Sure, anything is possible.....but it isn't the way to bet.

    ;)
    It may not be hate but it's a lot of effort to make to prove that their skepticism is the obvious outcome. I'd say it goes a lot beyond skepticism especially since their entire argument is built on hyperbole. Add on that their prediction of failure is likely no matter what engine they're using. They just have a bonaphone onethat it can't be done in Unreal.
    Not your first rodeo. Until the day this game successfully launches posters here will endlessly provide their reasoning on why this game can't be delivered as envisioned.

    In all fairness there has yet to be a successful indie MMORPG title, Unreal does have a bad rep in this space, so scepticism is not really unwarranted. (no worse than optimism which has no real basis other than hope and promises)

    Hyperbole is a hallmark of many on these forums, won't be going away any time soon. 
    I believe I haven't used hyperboles in my posts here, nor predicted or wished a failure for this game.

    The TL;DR of my posts is:
    1. The studio promises "massively multiplayer siege warfare" involving "hundreds of players on a single battlefield" with "many moving parts"
    2. They show a video with intensive structure destruction and destruction effects during  a siege
    Then:
    1. They upload a new video showing high fidelity graphics, VFX and lighting
    2. They say they won't sacrifice aesthetics for performance because they believe today's technology can support both high fidelity graphics and great performances
    However:
    1. No other studio, even AAA, achieved that (let alone on a multi purpose engine)
    2. The studio uses Unreal 4
    3. The studio presumably doesn't have as much resources as AAA studios
    It's easy to promises unrealistic stuff, ask other people to fund a portion of the project, later find excuses for failing to deliver. Anybody can do that and it has been done over and over again. The issue today is that the tools to make people believe in the feasibility of an unfeasible project are available at low cost. People build demos, create scenes, blend some good cinematic with what they call "gameplay",  release a trailer and tadam, that looks like a reasonable, realistic, feasible project. But when we look at it more closely: relatively low budget, relatively small team, unsuited engine, lot of promises, lot of shinies.

    Maybe they will show a prototype of siege with bots or something like that before their KS, like other upcoming MMOs have done.
    JamesGoblin
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