It's rather interesting people keep mentioning swtor when referring to this FAKE NEWS about MMORPGS failing. These are the same people for the last 5 years who have been saying swtor is a failure and will close in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now in 2017.
In reality (where most people live) the game is still one of the top revenue generating western mmos month after month. We are stuck with these same people predicted swtor death for the next 5-10 years, we are stuck with these same people blaming swtor for the failure of mmos and we are stuck with these same people hijacking every swtor thread or thread that isn't even about swtor.
How do you know SW:TOR is one of the top revenue generating MMOs in the west?
The only data we have that is publicly available is from Superdata, but Superdata only collect data from a fraction of the market (they state on their website they only collect data from approx 500 games in total. Not MMOs, but across all platforms and genres, including mobile). Plus, Superdata usually don't have the facts - they take scraps of information and estimate.
Anyway, if you can ever be bothered, you can go back and read the quarterly earnings reports from EA for the time period when SW:TOR launched. It did fail, financially. They sold 1.7m - 2m boxes in the first month, which is great. In month 2, they had 1.3m subscribers. Somewhere between month 3 and month 6 they dipped below 500k subscribers. EA's finance dude stated that the break even point was 500k subscribers.
That is why they switched to F2P - the game was failing.
Then look at the reports after the F2P switch. They had an initial increase in subscribers, bringing it over the 500k mark, but then it dropped off again and they stopped reporting numbers.
This is why SW:TOR has received so few updates and so little content - the game failed financially and EA needed to get back their money.
I don't know why anyone was surprised that SWTOR failed though. The main devs were bioware (single player, story-focused rpgs), backed up by Mythic (the remnants of mythic anyway, the guys who screwed WAR) and published by EA (famous for destroying creativity and aiming for a quick buck). SWTOR never stood a chance of being successful, let alone a valid competitor for WoW, because it was built and managed by completely the wrong people.
You realize this is like a 5 year-old game, right? Going F2P doesn't mean failure, it means that there needs to be an adjustment in the monetization of the game. This is the REALITY that is faced by the vast majority (like 90%+) of games these days. People don't pay for subscriptions anymore, that's the reality.
Now if we were to use Superdata research as a guide, they said that the top 5 P2P MMOs by revenue for February 2016 was: 1 World of Warcraft 2 Lineage I 3 TERA: Online 4 Star Wars: The Old Republic 5 Blade & Soul
From NC Softs financials, which break down their games by revenues (thank you NC Soft), Lineage I did $68 million USD in Q1 2016 while Blade & Soul did $46.6 million USD in Q1 2016. So it would stand to reason that SWTOR is somewhere in the region of $50-$70 million quarterly. In 2014 it was stated that they were making $160 million annually. So even if this Q1 number is inflated, I'd find it difficult to believe that they aren't far off that $160 million number quoted a couple years back.
I'd say that it certainly hasn't failed, especially since it's probably still hanging in there as one of the top earners, probably top 3 as far, as North American markets.
Exactly guys like Camelto have so much time and emotion invested in bashing swtor they are stuck in 2011-2012. They regurgitate the same talking points from 2011-2012 and stick their head in the sand when facts come out about what swtor has done since 2012.
Hey congrats Camelto you can hang onto they went f2p...you hang onto that for the next 5-10 years one day you will be able to tell all of "I told you so" even if you have to waste 10 years of your life embarrassing yourself with you swtor 2011 talking points.
And if you follow other games, or may be tried
to understand what i was saying, then you would not be more focused on
poking holes in 1's argument than seeing in how it makes sense.
...so because I am pointing out holes in your posts means I don't understand you? Seriously....
MOBA is nothing like "themepark"(MMORPG). Period.
The major difference and appeal of MMORPGs is persitency /and progression and that does not bode well with PVP or anything "MOBA-like". Very unpopular on these boards to hear but fact is people love progression.
Crowfall is a great example of that, while I consider Crowfall to be best thought out indie project out there, devs still struggle to balance out character progression and gear with their PVP focused design. They made very significant changes to make it somewhat "EVE-like" but imo that ain't going to work because it lacks the synergy with other mechanics.
While we will have to wait how Crowfall is going to turn out, thre is another example - GW2. A game that tried to flatten or even completely remove progression, yet it is one of the major complaint of GW2 players.
It's rather interesting people keep mentioning swtor when referring to this FAKE NEWS about MMORPGS failing. These are the same people for the last 5 years who have been saying swtor is a failure and will close in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now in 2017.
In reality (where most people live) the game is still one of the top revenue generating western mmos month after month. We are stuck with these same people predicted swtor death for the next 5-10 years, we are stuck with these same people blaming swtor for the failure of mmos and we are stuck with these same people hijacking every swtor thread or thread that isn't even about swtor.
How do you know SW:TOR is one of the top revenue generating MMOs in the west?
The only data we have that is publicly available is from Superdata, but Superdata only collect data from a fraction of the market (they state on their website they only collect data from approx 500 games in total. Not MMOs, but across all platforms and genres, including mobile). Plus, Superdata usually don't have the facts - they take scraps of information and estimate.
Anyway, if you can ever be bothered, you can go back and read the quarterly earnings reports from EA for the time period when SW:TOR launched. It did fail, financially. They sold 1.7m - 2m boxes in the first month, which is great. In month 2, they had 1.3m subscribers. Somewhere between month 3 and month 6 they dipped below 500k subscribers. EA's finance dude stated that the break even point was 500k subscribers.
That is why they switched to F2P - the game was failing.
Then look at the reports after the F2P switch. They had an initial increase in subscribers, bringing it over the 500k mark, but then it dropped off again and they stopped reporting numbers.
This is why SW:TOR has received so few updates and so little content - the game failed financially and EA needed to get back their money.
I don't know why anyone was surprised that SWTOR failed though. The main devs were bioware (single player, story-focused rpgs), backed up by Mythic (the remnants of mythic anyway, the guys who screwed WAR) and published by EA (famous for destroying creativity and aiming for a quick buck). SWTOR never stood a chance of being successful, let alone a valid competitor for WoW, because it was built and managed by completely the wrong people.
You realize this is like a 5 year-old game, right? Going F2P doesn't mean failure, it means that there needs to be an adjustment in the monetization of the game. This is the REALITY that is faced by the vast majority (like 90%+) of games these days. People don't pay for subscriptions anymore, that's the reality.
Now if we were to use Superdata research as a guide, they said that the top 5 P2P MMOs by revenue for February 2016 was: 1 World of Warcraft 2 Lineage I 3 TERA: Online 4 Star Wars: The Old Republic 5 Blade & Soul
From NC Softs financials, which break down their games by revenues (thank you NC Soft), Lineage I did $68 million USD in Q1 2016 while Blade & Soul did $46.6 million USD in Q1 2016. So it would stand to reason that SWTOR is somewhere in the region of $50-$70 million quarterly. In 2014 it was stated that they were making $160 million annually. So even if this Q1 number is inflated, I'd find it difficult to believe that they aren't far off that $160 million number quoted a couple years back.
I'd say that it certainly hasn't failed, especially since it's probably still hanging in there as one of the top earners, probably top 3 as far, as North American markets.
Exactly guys like Camelto have so much time and emotion invested in bashing swtor they are stuck in 2011-2012. They regurgitate the same talking points from 2011-2012 and stick their head in the sand when facts come out about what swtor has done since 2012.
Hey congrats Camelto you can hang onto they went f2p...you hang onto that for the next 5-10 years one day you will be able to tell all of "I told you so" even if you have to waste 10 years of your life embarrassing yourself with you swtor 2011 talking points.
Whilst I was angry back in 2012 when the game sucked, I have no emotional investment in it now.
My point was that, at launch, the game failed. It bled players too quickly and was heading for a financial loss. The switch to F2P allowed them to generate more money out of the game and prevent it from being a financial loss, but this came at the expense of content.
I have kept in touch with SW:TOR since I left - I'm a big fan of Star Wars and I have a lot of friends that still play the game. Without exception, every single person I know that plays SW:TOR says that the release schedule for content is diabolical and when new content does release, it is much lower quality than the original game (which wasn't great itself) and is extremely short lived. I mean, when they release a new "expansion" that can be completed in 6 hours....
I have no problem with SW:TOR continuing to run and I'm glad people are still enjoying it. But to call it a success? It missed every single one of EA's and Biowares targets. It was missing half the features that were promised during development. The amount of content released is nowhere near what it should be if it was successful. It started off as a financial failure, resulting in a massive business shift designed to suck more money per player. The only measure of success that SW:TOR achieved is the fact it is still running.
MMOs are stale bread. They haven't really changed since the first one out the door so while new pixels make it appear like it is NEW, it is still the same old stale bread with more graphical content.
Now breaking the mold of existing and making something new is a greater challenge since cost to make one is still astronomical due to the infrastructure required per CCU.
Take a small MMO as example. The requirement for making the server workable and combatting cheating requires at a minimum 1 core per 20 players per ZONE. Now I said per zone here since zone can be a cluster of replication to other connected zones. Add into this that the server does 99% of the work and the client is just a dumb terminal looking into the simulation on the server would require 100 computers costing 40,000 each just to sustain 10 zones and 2000 players.
Now a developer can make a multiplayer game give others the server and let them run it for 10 to 20 others at a MUCH MUCH lower cost.
So why would any developer in their right mind make a MMORPG?!
Instead of trying to innovate content, devs focused on monetization schemes which resulted in nickle and dime game design.
The game part is just meant to keep you in long enough to get spammed with infomercials for items that ruin balance or are cosmetic and should be in the game in the first place.
Instead of trying to innovate content, devs focused on monetization schemes which resulted in nickle and dime game design.
The game part is just meant to keep you in long enough to get spammed with infomercials for items that ruin balance or are cosmetic and should be in the game in the first place.
Sadly this is true but then again this is because people are willing to throw their money at virtual goods to have bragging rights. Some people have a LOT of disposable income and are willing to part with it so can't really blame the developers trying to scratch a living since in the long run MOST want to pay nothing and get it all free.
The reason this works out so well is the 'game' is in the cash shop. Hell a couple games have the achievement of who has the most game coins in the system. One in particular has an achievement for someone with a million dollars in the system.
I think it's partly from the massive multiplayer mechanic. I stopped playing mmorpgs and spend my time playing arpgs now. There are few arpgs that are really fun, and a couple coming out that looked quite promising. Lost Ark was one of the promising ones.
When I learned that Lost Ark was an mmoarpg I thought that would be pretty cool. But then I saw it action and it was a reminder that mmo mechanics just royally mess up a game's potential... Skip to the 5 hour 30 second mark in the below video to see what I'm referring to.
As long as I can log in to a MMORPG that meets the right criteria, this is just another one of those premature death-knell threads we've been seeing oh, the last decade or so.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
You realize this is like a 5 year-old game, right? Going F2P doesn't mean failure, it means that there needs to be an adjustment in the monetization of the game. This is the REALITY that is faced by the vast majority (like 90%+) of games these days. People don't pay for subscriptions anymore, that's the reality.
Now if we were to use Superdata research as a guide, they said that the top 5 P2P MMOs by revenue for February 2016 was: 1 World of Warcraft 2 Lineage I 3 TERA: Online 4 Star Wars: The Old Republic 5 Blade & Soul
From NC Softs financials, which break down their games by revenues (thank you NC Soft), Lineage I did $68 million USD in Q1 2016 while Blade & Soul did $46.6 million USD in Q1 2016. So it would stand to reason that SWTOR is somewhere in the region of $50-$70 million quarterly. In 2014 it was stated that they were making $160 million annually. So even if this Q1 number is inflated, I'd find it difficult to believe that they aren't far off that $160 million number quoted a couple years back.
I'd say that it certainly hasn't failed, especially since it's probably still hanging in there as one of the top earners, probably top 3 as far, as North American markets.
You also have to count in that people tend to play more in the autumn and winter then spring and summer so the number probably goes down a little due to that.
But calling the game is failure isn't right, even if EA hoped for more.It is still pretty popular and earn a lot of money, if you want to talk failure then look on Wildstar.
Big producers gave up on AAA MMORPGs/MMos to make MOBAs and mobile games: lower investment (which was a problem for AAA MMORPGS) and better return. Game makers have shifted away from "big" to do small and multi-platform now. There is not nearly as much money going into the MMORPG industry, so the games are not getting made. That is the whole reason of why the MMORPG biz is in the toilet.
Big producers gave up on AAA MMORPGs/MMos to make MOBAs and mobile games: lower investment (which was a problem for AAA MMORPGS) and better return. Game makers have shifted away from "big" to do small and multi-platform now. There is not nearly as much money going into the MMORPG industry, so the games are not getting made. That is the whole reason of why the MMORPG biz is in the toilet.
That is because MOBAs, mobile games, action online games are where the gamers are now.
I am actually surprised that MMOs are not completely dead yet. I will just check back a few weeks from now and see whether that comes true.
When you log into something like a Minecraft server, you can see very well why MMORPGs failed. We used to have that kind of gameplay in MMORPGs. Indeed, the "world building" aspect of MMORPGs was the thing that made MMORPGs different than anything else. Nobody had ever seen anything like this before, where a bunch of people could, literally, build their own collective reality.
There was a time, back in 2003, when this genre made a decision: continue with the word building, or redefine an MMO as an action/adventure, FPS hybrid that will attract action/adventure and FPS consumers. It chose the latter, double downed on it for more than a decade, and are now fighting for relevance against things like PSN, mobile apps, and Xbox Live.
These games became all about combat and action. What is missing is the creative aspect: the building, the roleplay, and the creation of societies, myths, anciliary community functions and so on. And, without those things, the MMORPG really doesn't have anything to make it a better value, with better production values, than other single or multiplayer games that do the combat and action as well.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Its not really MMORPG's that failed its the developers who IMO their thinking has grew smaller over the years and it became a thing about "Cash Shops" "Paying Real Money" to enjoy the damn game, and bad development decisions all around, even with games like World OF Warcraft which were once great, they get ruined by expansions that lack story line of interest, or Nerfs / Changes that effect the core game-play I personally loved the original WOW, but after Blizzard came out with BC then a bit later started making changes I started to quit I just didn't like the changes made not so much the races, but the nerfs heavily to classes, and talent remakes and all ruined the whole game experience from what it was too much for me to like the game...
I wouldn't consider SWTOR, or ESO a success either, ESO had those developers who I describe above the lack of innovation, thinking, etc, look at ESO today, we got cosmetics which are great to be sold in the store, but now ESO has stuck limited time items in the market, RNG Boxes, and even charges like I think it was $10 to re-customize a characters appearance things that (Should be free) with paid subscription and buying the customization styles / packs for additional DLC / money (Not the current cheap system they use now.
On top of this housing in both ESO, and FFXIV were never thought about really its dumb how it took over 2+ Years for ESO to even release housing, and now its likely going to be very limited at best with customization of what could be done with it still better than nothing but still should have been there within 6 months on release but they were still fixing bugs even after beta was over and the game was released.
FFXIV on the other hand does the same thing they make housing so not everyone can obtain it excluding apartments, but the lack of good developer decisions, ruined this game and the whole experience, same thing with Cosmetic items and glamour shards even those you spend your real money on called Optional Items...
SWTOR, has just never felt like a great game to me I've tried so many times, Limited time "Cartel Packs" Needs character model improvements, and doesn't feel like the old Knights of the old republic games I have played before for some reason it just doesn't feel as good as them...
The MMO Genere didn't fail, its the developers, and Management that fails. Many Many times over and over again.
If you go back to games like...
Final Fantasy XIV, where everyone got a single MOG House it was fair and fun. The 4th Coming, another fun game back in the day but private servers always shutting down and stuff.
Rune Scape, Original One
Planet Side 1, Vs Planet Side 2, I like Planet Side 1 better, its sad they closed this down for a game with Capture the objective its so frigging call of duty if I wanted to play this ID just go play COD.
Titan Fall 2, (A FAILURE !) omg why did humans become Robots, Nope im sorry im not buying this game.
Ever Quest, VS Ever Quest 2, The old days of EQ1, and Champions OF Norrath games compared to today...
MMO, is still great it just needs people who can do them right and design them properly, Cash shops are not the problem, Subscriptions are not a problem, its the RNG, massive Greed, and little content offered for those who do pay.
FFXIV being a great example you spend $15 a month just like everyone else I think it is, and you can't obtain player housing you want, while someone else who pays the same fee can...
Good points; I'd blame the managers more than the developers; managers make bad decisions, don't listen to developers and often don't hire the right developers.
Also props to Planetside 1 and Everquest 1; both games I spent thousands of hours in; and the sequels of both just could not retain my interest past the first day.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
innovation stopped at some point. now it is back there again with all the crowd funding games and even more mainstream games like bdo and i am sure mmorpgs will be back with games that offer more varity opposed to the same wow clone we got the last decade :pleased:
Totally agree, very odd comment. Possibly they were bored and wanted an argument...
That's the case I'm assuming as well. I don't have any trouble finding extremely populated MMORPG's to play. My main game right now is FFXIV which has people everywhere all the time on the server I'm on. Same with when I play BDO, or when I play WoW. The genre didn't fail, the people just stuck with the games that they enjoyed or had the best content development.
There will continue to be more MMORPG's developed, and they may or may not succeed, but the community will always be there and ready for when another really well made one comes out.
Name one mmorpg that doesn't have markers all over the world,maps npc's and then you know why the genre fails.These are non immersive game designs,just a pile of systems tossed together and the devs calls it a mmorpg just because it has a login screen and some levels and quests.
This design is EASIER for devs,a nice neat package,easy to design for,trigger this and trigger that,all a nice menu/data base system.However i don't understand all the hand holding,i have seen young kids figure out some really tough stuff,so we definitely don't need any hand holding.Hence why the phrase game on rails was started or connect the dots or as i like to call them,linear game play.
EVERY new game starts out interesting because it is new,we know nothing of the world.However in a very short time,we soon realize it is the same opld different skin and then it becomes extremely boring.
This is why i took notice when a dev tries to do something different,like COE and now Ashes,finally developers that can think for themselves without just copying everyone else.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It didn't, publishers and developers failed to make actual games. They resorted to quick cashgrabs inside the genre, nothing more.
Only cause of us. When people start complaining they don't have time to play games anymore and that mmos should fit how they play, devs will follow that trend if it means there business can run, that's when MMOs went sour. We are the ones who make the final decision if something stays or goes.
When players stop paying for that type of content, then that content will stop coming, but until then we're gonna continue to get it.
Comments
Hey congrats Camelto you can hang onto they went f2p...you hang onto that for the next 5-10 years one day you will be able to tell all of "I told you so" even if you have to waste 10 years of your life embarrassing yourself with you swtor 2011 talking points.
MOBA is nothing like "themepark"(MMORPG). Period.
The major difference and appeal of MMORPGs is persitency /and progression and that does not bode well with PVP or anything "MOBA-like". Very unpopular on these boards to hear but fact is people love progression.
Crowfall is a great example of that, while I consider Crowfall to be best thought out indie project out there, devs still struggle to balance out character progression and gear with their PVP focused design. They made very significant changes to make it somewhat "EVE-like" but imo that ain't going to work because it lacks the synergy with other mechanics.
While we will have to wait how Crowfall is going to turn out, thre is another example - GW2. A game that tried to flatten or even completely remove progression, yet it is one of the major complaint of GW2 players.
My point was that, at launch, the game failed. It bled players too quickly and was heading for a financial loss. The switch to F2P allowed them to generate more money out of the game and prevent it from being a financial loss, but this came at the expense of content.
I have kept in touch with SW:TOR since I left - I'm a big fan of Star Wars and I have a lot of friends that still play the game. Without exception, every single person I know that plays SW:TOR says that the release schedule for content is diabolical and when new content does release, it is much lower quality than the original game (which wasn't great itself) and is extremely short lived. I mean, when they release a new "expansion" that can be completed in 6 hours....
I have no problem with SW:TOR continuing to run and I'm glad people are still enjoying it. But to call it a success? It missed every single one of EA's and Biowares targets. It was missing half the features that were promised during development. The amount of content released is nowhere near what it should be if it was successful. It started off as a financial failure, resulting in a massive business shift designed to suck more money per player. The only measure of success that SW:TOR achieved is the fact it is still running.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
So while it failed to meet their goals the game itself was not a failure.
Now breaking the mold of existing and making something new is a greater challenge since cost to make one is still astronomical due to the infrastructure required per CCU.
Take a small MMO as example. The requirement for making the server workable and combatting cheating requires at a minimum 1 core per 20 players per ZONE. Now I said per zone here since zone can be a cluster of replication to other connected zones. Add into this that the server does 99% of the work and the client is just a dumb terminal looking into the simulation on the server would require 100 computers costing 40,000 each just to sustain 10 zones and 2000 players.
Now a developer can make a multiplayer game give others the server and let them run it for 10 to 20 others at a MUCH MUCH lower cost.
So why would any developer in their right mind make a MMORPG?!
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
The game part is just meant to keep you in long enough to get spammed with infomercials for items that ruin balance or are cosmetic and should be in the game in the first place.
The reason this works out so well is the 'game' is in the cash shop. Hell a couple games have the achievement of who has the most game coins in the system. One in particular has an achievement for someone with a million dollars in the system.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
When I learned that Lost Ark was an mmoarpg I thought that would be pretty cool. But then I saw it action and it was a reminder that mmo mechanics just royally mess up a game's potential...
Skip to the 5 hour 30 second mark in the below video to see what I'm referring to.
Spoiler:
As long as I can log in to a MMORPG that meets the right criteria, this is just another one of those premature death-knell threads we've been seeing oh, the last decade or so.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
But calling the game is failure isn't right, even if EA hoped for more.It is still pretty popular and earn a lot of money, if you want to talk failure then look on Wildstar.
I am actually surprised that MMOs are not completely dead yet. I will just check back a few weeks from now and see whether that comes true.
There was a time, back in 2003, when this genre made a decision: continue with the word building, or redefine an MMO as an action/adventure, FPS hybrid that will attract action/adventure and FPS consumers. It chose the latter, double downed on it for more than a decade, and are now fighting for relevance against things like PSN, mobile apps, and Xbox Live.
These games became all about combat and action. What is missing is the creative aspect: the building, the roleplay, and the creation of societies, myths, anciliary community functions and so on. And, without those things, the MMORPG really doesn't have anything to make it a better value, with better production values, than other single or multiplayer games that do the combat and action as well.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
What a weird claim.
Also props to Planetside 1 and Everquest 1; both games I spent thousands of hours in; and the sequels of both just could not retain my interest past the first day.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
The other way is to give players control of the genre with create-a-MMORPG and deep tool set to create custom MMORPG easily.
There will continue to be more MMORPG's developed, and they may or may not succeed, but the community will always be there and ready for when another really well made one comes out.
This 100%
This design is EASIER for devs,a nice neat package,easy to design for,trigger this and trigger that,all a nice menu/data base system.However i don't understand all the hand holding,i have seen young kids figure out some really tough stuff,so we definitely don't need any hand holding.Hence why the phrase game on rails was started or connect the dots or as i like to call them,linear game play.
EVERY new game starts out interesting because it is new,we know nothing of the world.However in a very short time,we soon realize it is the same opld different skin and then it becomes extremely boring.
This is why i took notice when a dev tries to do something different,like COE and now Ashes,finally developers that can think for themselves without just copying everyone else.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When players stop paying for that type of content, then that content will stop coming, but until then we're gonna continue to get it.