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How Skyrim Sold Me On Elder Scrolls Online - The RPG Files at MMORPG.com

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  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,411
    Yeah overload gives a 3rd bar.

    I stopped caring about raiding once we did Nax, and yes we were some of the few to get it mostly finished before BC came out. But its still the same. You grind gear to advance. I dont think that is the case with ESO. I think you can do it all without the gear, gear just makes it easier to do it with more mistakes and less optimal 'moves'. 

    Gear grinds oif any kind never made sense especially in games that tend to advance you vertically. THAT is the thing ESO sort of fails at. They have a more vertical progression than the single player games. But then again they have to since its multiplayer.

    They could tweak it a little but they figure its not worth the cost or effort.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,334
    Torval said:
    Right now I don't play at all though because for some reason it causes my machine to reboot. I really wish I could work out that issue.
    Try going under documents> Elder Scrolls Online > live,  and delete (or rename if you want) UserSettings.txt and let the game rebuild it. That has cured all kinds of weirdness in the past for me.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • JWillCHSJWillCHS Member UncommonPosts: 75
    I feel like I'm one of the few fans of The Elder Scrolls that loves ESO. I've been playing the series since Daggerfall and when I found out that a MMORPG set in Tamriel was going to be a thing I got excited.

    I feel this argument never gets old. I like how the Elder Scrolls Online is a blend of Tamriel and what I like about MMORPGs. There's also a few thing that surprised me including the character progression(especially the variety at endgame), and how crafting works. But I can not deny that I had a few concerns early on. One concern was the combat system which to me does not hold a lot of weight behind it sometimes, especially when it comes to impactful melee attacks. The phasing technology also made it hard for cooperative play when questing. While some of my issues have been addressed, it's not completely fixed.

    My biggest concern is animation canceling which is a result of a combat system with a few holes. It's something that Zenimax Online Studios can't/will not fix. They even "support" animation canceling because they can't stop it completely. It feels and looks tacky.

    But I love the variety and some of the changes introduced by One Tamriel. While I still think Skyrim looks better, the Elder Scrolls Online is still a gorgeous game. And the 4 man dungeons in my opinion are a huge highlight for this theme park MMORPG especially with the veteran difficulty.
  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Member UncommonPosts: 550
    I missed Arena and Darkfall, to my great regret.

    Morrowind: Freedom level 9000.
    Seek out this person in Balmora, he will guide you.
    Guy in Balmora: You're not nearly strong enough, return to me once you're stronger.
    Kill Guy in Balmora: You've doomed the world, would you like to revert to a save or continue in the doomed world you have created?
    Find some way to break the game: Have fun =D.
    Psychadelic world is crazy :D

    Oblivion: Freedom level 6500

    Why can't I craft spells or enchant without playing mages guild for 6 hours?
    Hey guys let's try fast travel because the world isn't interesting.

    Skyrim: Freedom level 2000
    Spell crafting? LOL!!! Here have a quest instead.
    Actually, a great quest sounds like killing these guys in camps. Quartermasters won't die: There's DLC for that D=.
    This door requires a key!!!

    Game plot has progressed from an alternate universe with nix hounds with 3 jaws to the vikings of ancient history some how. It's like Elder Scrolls people got tired of being creative and just started pumping game content out.

    Elder Scrolls Online:
    Have 2 kill quests and a collecting quest, after you're finished, rinse and repeat. Maybe they changed this. I got to level 20 back when it was P2P and it broke my heart that they had come this far into corrupting the impossible level of freedom that once was Morrowind.
  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844

    Denambren said:

    LOL!



    "ESO is now more interesting than Skyrim to me, because I've played Skyrim since 2011 and am getting bored of it in 2016."



    HAHA



    Thanks for the laugh. This piece of analytic journalism has concluded that a single player game played for a thousand hours can eventually start to feel less interesting than it did initially. Well done.



    Well his blog is pretty weird but I think he is not really comparing masterpiece to a turd,I think OP is shyly trying to tell us what kind of person he is..

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,958
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Right now I don't play at all though because for some reason it causes my machine to reboot. I really wish I could work out that issue.
    Try going under documents> Elder Scrolls Online > live,  and delete (or rename if you want) UserSettings.txt and let the game rebuild it. That has cured all kinds of weirdness in the past for me.
    Thanks for the suggestion, but it's not a problem with ESO. It happens in several games, some with different engines. Settings mostly don't matter, although I can trigger it 100% of the time in Shadows of Mordor with certain settings. It almost always happens when or shortly after loading screens or compositing changes occur.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,958
    JWillCHS said:
    I feel like I'm one of the few fans of The Elder Scrolls that loves ESO. I've been playing the series since Daggerfall and when I found out that a MMORPG set in Tamriel was going to be a thing I got excited.

    I feel this argument never gets old. I like how the Elder Scrolls Online is a blend of Tamriel and what I like about MMORPGs. There's also a few thing that surprised me including the character progression(especially the variety at endgame), and how crafting works. But I can not deny that I had a few concerns early on. One concern was the combat system which to me does not hold a lot of weight behind it sometimes, especially when it comes to impactful melee attacks. The phasing technology also made it hard for cooperative play when questing. While some of my issues have been addressed, it's not completely fixed.

    My biggest concern is animation canceling which is a result of a combat system with a few holes. It's something that Zenimax Online Studios can't/will not fix. They even "support" animation canceling because they can't stop it completely. It feels and looks tacky.

    But I love the variety and some of the changes introduced by One Tamriel. While I still think Skyrim looks better, the Elder Scrolls Online is still a gorgeous game. And the 4 man dungeons in my opinion are a huge highlight for this theme park MMORPG especially with the veteran difficulty.
    LotRO has animation cancelling too. It's tab target with a 4 stage skill cooldown but some instant skills can bypass post execution animations. It looks wacky. They added some optional animation transitions to help it look better, but they don't coincide with the actual skill so if you're used to instant skill feedback it feels wonky too. Animation cancelling never feels right.

    I think you're right that it's just an unwanted side effect that will become a feature because it can't be changed. It's a characteristic inherent to the combat system like you pointed out.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,334
    In case some of you don't know what animation cancelling in ESO is all about, this video shows it very well - especially the part with the split screen showing no cancelling on the left and cancelling on the right. It makes it pretty obvious why it's a DPS boost:



    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 719
    Well that explains why macroing is popular even if the devs don't approve.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,958
    Good video. I'm horrible about weaving light attacks in.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,334
    edited January 2017
    The thing is that animation canceling is really only a veteran hardmode final boss in a dungeon or veteran raid kind of thing and then only if you're trying to get a speed achievement or going for high scores.

    In normal run of the mill pugs I don't even bother slotting my top DPS rotation abilities anyway. If the tank isn't controlling the adds or the healer is slacking off - which happens more often than not, I'm better off slotting shields and self-heals. Min-maxing my DPS rotation, including animation cancelling, is a luxury of being in a really good group.

    And in PVP you spend most of your time moving and chasing anyway. Animation cancelling is the least of your worries there.

    So it does exist and it does help your DPS, but people that don't even do hard mode raids blow its impact on the game all out of proportion. Even the toughest bosses in raids with enrage mechanics are not designed with animation cancelling in mind - they can be done just fine without it. If the game didn't have leader boards for fastest flawless raid completions no one would really give a shit about it.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • storagstorag Member UncommonPosts: 17
    I'm so full of this "TES games are about freedom" stuff... I don't know where people get those ideas but I suppose they just confuse the freedom given buy MODs with actual stock gameplay. Without mods both Skyrim and Oblivion are combat centered and sometimes even more restricted than ESO in terms of non-violent resolutions. Yeah, you can wonder around and stumble upon some "treasure" but good luck trying to find something worthwhile thanks to stupid world scaling systems. And that's pretty much the same degree of "freedom" you have in ESO atm.

    Storywise ESO offers some pretty solid plots with excellent voice acting. And judging by the Orsinium and Thieves guild stories devs keep improving. I managed to go through Thieves plot with very few fights.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,382
    storag said:
    I'm so full of this "TES games are about freedom" stuff... I don't know where people get those ideas but I suppose they just confuse the freedom given buy MODs with actual stock gameplay. Without mods both Skyrim and Oblivion are combat centered and sometimes even more restricted than ESO in terms of non-violent resolutions. Yeah, you can wonder around and stumble upon some "treasure" but good luck trying to find something worthwhile thanks to stupid world scaling systems. And that's pretty much the same degree of "freedom" you have in ESO atm.

    Storywise ESO offers some pretty solid plots with excellent voice acting. And judging by the Orsinium and Thieves guild stories devs keep improving. I managed to go through Thieves plot with very few fights.
    I don't agree with that at all.

    The only mods I ever use are additional dungeons/quests and armor/weapons mods that add additional choices.

    Some additional things such as making horses not attack everything or allowing you to be able to see your breath.

    And I've played Skyrim "since launch" and still play it. Clearly you have very specific needs if you think that an unmodded skyrim doesn't allow for freedom.

    Of course, no game is "entirely free" as there are always going to be limitations on these games. Not everything can be thrown in.




  • storagstorag Member UncommonPosts: 17
    Sovrath said:
    And I've played Skyrim "since launch" and still play it. Clearly you have very specific needs if you think that an unmodded skyrim doesn't allow for freedom.
    Not at all. I just don't think that ability to move in any direction = freedom. Sure, in-game freedom is an illusion, but it can vary in depth and is a summ of many design desisions. A too complex thing to debate about here, but for example imo, Morrowind, Gothic 1-2, Risen 1, Arx Fatalis, Dragons Dogma, New Vegas - all made a much better job creating this illusion than Skyrim or Oblivion.
    I do like Skyrim (427 hours on Steam =), but I had most fun of it playing as an archer which took some .ini tweaks to unlock projectile interaction distance (it's havily limited in stock game and you can see arrows passing through enemies without hitting on long range) + some archery overhaul mods to be able to really enjoy.
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,703
    window.post_1485447831118_6 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }window.post_1485447832010_18 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }
    Iselin said:
    The thing is that animation canceling is really only a veteran hardmode final boss in a dungeon or veteran raid kind of thing and then only if you're trying to get a speed achievement or going for high scores.

    In normal run of the mill pugs I don't even bother slotting my top DPS rotation abilities anyway. If the tank isn't controlling the adds or the healer is slacking off - which happens more often than not, I'm better off slotting shields and self-heals. Min-maxing my DPS rotation, including animation cancelling, is a luxury of being in a really good group.

    And in PVP you spend most of your time moving and chasing anyway. Animation cancelling is the least of your worries there.

    So it does exist and it does help your DPS, but people that don't even do hard mode raids blow its impact on the game all out of proportion. Even the toughest bosses in raids with enrage mechanics are not designed with animation cancelling in mind - they can be done just fine without it. If the game didn't have leader boards for fastest flawless raid completions no one would really give a shit about it.

    The problem is that when something like that exists the expectation is that you will take advantage of it or be considered shit. 
    Performing animation canceling is not my idea of fun, at all. 
    That said it isn't the sole or even the biggest reason I left, just a big gripe.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,334
    window.post_1485447831118_6 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }window.post_1485447832010_18 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }
    Iselin said:
    The thing is that animation canceling is really only a veteran hardmode final boss in a dungeon or veteran raid kind of thing and then only if you're trying to get a speed achievement or going for high scores.

    In normal run of the mill pugs I don't even bother slotting my top DPS rotation abilities anyway. If the tank isn't controlling the adds or the healer is slacking off - which happens more often than not, I'm better off slotting shields and self-heals. Min-maxing my DPS rotation, including animation cancelling, is a luxury of being in a really good group.

    And in PVP you spend most of your time moving and chasing anyway. Animation cancelling is the least of your worries there.

    So it does exist and it does help your DPS, but people that don't even do hard mode raids blow its impact on the game all out of proportion. Even the toughest bosses in raids with enrage mechanics are not designed with animation cancelling in mind - they can be done just fine without it. If the game didn't have leader boards for fastest flawless raid completions no one would really give a shit about it.

    The problem is that when something like that exists the expectation is that you will take advantage of it or be considered shit. 
    Performing animation canceling is not my idea of fun, at all. 
    That said it isn't the sole or even the biggest reason I left, just a big gripe.

    Well you're not the only one that's bothered by it. It has always been and continues to be an active hot-button topic on the forums... even this week.

    But eliminating it would require such a fundamental overhaul of the whole combat system that I can't see it going anywhere.

    If it was me making the decisions, I would embrace it and officially support it with an in-game macroing system similar to what Rift uses to help the less coordinated be more competitive. At this point it should be treated as something that needs balancing just like the % tweaks they do to ability numbers in balance patches.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SaunZSaunZ Member UncommonPosts: 462
    ESO is awesome! Obviously it has pros and cons like EVERY game, but overall it is fun, beautiful and there is a ton of stuff to do. And I think the group stuff in pvp, pve and guilds is a blast.

    Sz :)
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,382
    storag said:
    Sovrath said:
    And I've played Skyrim "since launch" and still play it. Clearly you have very specific needs if you think that an unmodded skyrim doesn't allow for freedom.
    Not at all. I just don't think that ability to move in any direction = freedom. Sure, in-game freedom is an illusion, but it can vary in depth and is a summ of many design desisions. A too complex thing to debate about here, but for example imo, Morrowind, Gothic 1-2, Risen 1, Arx Fatalis, Dragons Dogma, New Vegas - all made a much better job creating this illusion than Skyrim or Oblivion.
    I do like Skyrim (427 hours on Steam =), but I had most fun of it playing as an archer which took some .ini tweaks to unlock projectile interaction distance (it's havily limited in stock game and you can see arrows passing through enemies without hitting on long range) + some archery overhaul mods to be able to really enjoy.
    I still don't see what you mean. I'm a HUGE fan of Dragon's dogma but I don't really believe it offers a great illusion of freedom.

    Morrowind was my favorite Elder Scrolls game and clearly has the best dungeons, caves, tombs as far as exploration but the detail wasn't really there.





  • storagstorag Member UncommonPosts: 17
    Sovrath said:
    I still don't see what you mean. I'm a HUGE fan of Dragon's dogma but I don't really believe it offers a great illusion of freedom.

    Morrowind was my favorite Elder Scrolls game and clearly has the best dungeons, caves, tombs as far as exploration but the detail wasn't really there.
    It realy is a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a nutshell it all breaks down to what tools a player has to deal with various situations in a game and how well they are defined. I can loosely combine them in to 3 major sets: combat, dialogue and exploration. Some elements of game design or even code can effect several of those simultaniously.

    The sequence from the begginig of Gothic 2 where player has to enter the city is a good example of geneal freedom in games imo - there are at least 6 ways to get past the gards (more really) including several dialogue variants with various prerequisites, several exploration options based on game worlds geometry, physics (or lack of =)) and combat as a dumbest and hardest.
    In this case open world structure and ability to move freely enhances feeling of freedom by allowing additional paths to the goal. Skirims designers never used their open world in such ways which is a pure shame.

    About freedom in Dragons Dogma - if you've played Dogma you probaly know how many "hidden" and miningfull options are there during quests and none of them is stuffed down gamers throat. I.e. the ability to forge (duplicate) quest items for a fee opens up a lot of possibilities with various outcomes.

    The games combat is another example of how freedom can "grow" from basic stuff, there's just so many ways to fight things with style and effect... including gravity =)

    If we get back to comparing Skyrim to ESO I can put 2 small examples of what ESO does differently and how it works to give more "freedom":
    - in ESO you sometimes have an ability to send NPC do certain Q objectives for you, reducing "legwork". It's an option, but a welcome one and I can't recall anything alike in other TES games. 
    - Characters can "cast" spells while using 2H weapons allowing (at least theoretically) to better shape certain archetypes (One of my ESO toons is a "blackguard"-like character with 2H sword and life-stealing spells which is a problematic set up to play in previous TES games)

    Hope I've managed to explain my point by now.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,958
    Iselin said:
    window.post_1485447831118_6 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }window.post_1485447832010_18 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }
    Iselin said:
    The thing is that animation canceling is really only a veteran hardmode final boss in a dungeon or veteran raid kind of thing and then only if you're trying to get a speed achievement or going for high scores.

    In normal run of the mill pugs I don't even bother slotting my top DPS rotation abilities anyway. If the tank isn't controlling the adds or the healer is slacking off - which happens more often than not, I'm better off slotting shields and self-heals. Min-maxing my DPS rotation, including animation cancelling, is a luxury of being in a really good group.

    And in PVP you spend most of your time moving and chasing anyway. Animation cancelling is the least of your worries there.

    So it does exist and it does help your DPS, but people that don't even do hard mode raids blow its impact on the game all out of proportion. Even the toughest bosses in raids with enrage mechanics are not designed with animation cancelling in mind - they can be done just fine without it. If the game didn't have leader boards for fastest flawless raid completions no one would really give a shit about it.

    The problem is that when something like that exists the expectation is that you will take advantage of it or be considered shit. 
    Performing animation canceling is not my idea of fun, at all. 
    That said it isn't the sole or even the biggest reason I left, just a big gripe.

    Well you're not the only one that's bothered by it. It has always been and continues to be an active hot-button topic on the forums... even this week.

    But eliminating it would require such a fundamental overhaul of the whole combat system that I can't see it going anywhere.

    If it was me making the decisions, I would embrace it and officially support it with an in-game macroing system similar to what Rift uses to help the less coordinated be more competitive. At this point it should be treated as something that needs balancing just like the % tweaks they do to ability numbers in balance patches.
    A macro system is exactly what the game needs. The advantage of this is that they can slowly change some skills, how they animation cancel, how they macro, and how synergies work such that animation cancelling can be balanced better.

    I can macro using my mouse and keyboard, but I don't stack macro abilities. I single macro a skill or action to a hotkey and that's it.

    Also I've never needed or been given flak for not using it because I've not done high end content. Outside of that I've not seen it expected or even discussed really. I try it while I'm soloing just for fun, or when I accidentally aggro too much.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,382
    storag said:
    Sovrath said:
    I still don't see what you mean. I'm a HUGE fan of Dragon's dogma but I don't really believe it offers a great illusion of freedom.

    Morrowind was my favorite Elder Scrolls game and clearly has the best dungeons, caves, tombs as far as exploration but the detail wasn't really there.
    It realy is a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a nutshell it all breaks down to what tools a player has to deal with various situations in a game and how well they are defined. I can loosely combine them in to 3 major sets: combat, dialogue and exploration. Some elements of game design or even code can effect several of those simultaniously.

    The sequence from the begginig of Gothic 2 where player has to enter the city is a good example of geneal freedom in games imo - there are at least 6 ways to get past the gards (more really) including several dialogue variants with various prerequisites, several exploration options based on game worlds geometry, physics (or lack of =)) and combat as a dumbest and hardest.
    In this case open world structure and ability to move freely enhances feeling of freedom by allowing additional paths to the goal. Skirims designers never used their open world in such ways which is a pure shame.

    About freedom in Dragons Dogma - if you've played Dogma you probaly know how many "hidden" and miningfull options are there during quests and none of them is stuffed down gamers throat. I.e. the ability to forge (duplicate) quest items for a fee opens up a lot of possibilities with various outcomes.

    The games combat is another example of how freedom can "grow" from basic stuff, there's just so many ways to fight things with style and effect... including gravity =)

    If we get back to comparing Skyrim to ESO I can put 2 small examples of what ESO does differently and how it works to give more "freedom":
    - in ESO you sometimes have an ability to send NPC do certain Q objectives for you, reducing "legwork". It's an option, but a welcome one and I can't recall anything alike in other TES games. 
    - Characters can "cast" spells while using 2H weapons allowing (at least theoretically) to better shape certain archetypes (One of my ESO toons is a "blackguard"-like character with 2H sword and life-stealing spells which is a problematic set up to play in previous TES games)

    Hope I've managed to explain my point by now.

    That explains it but it just shows me that you are more about the quest choices. So yeah, if you want to say that their quests offer more ways to complete/approach them then "sure", I can't disagree.

    But the Elder Scrolls games really aren't "about" their quests. I mean, I could go on about how there are several questlines in skyrim that were very poorly done.

    The elder scrolls games are more about creating a world and the adventures you discover in those worlds. And I suspect that is where people are talking about freedom.

    I can't comment on the Gothic games because the two I tried I couldn't stand. I think that had more to do with the combat and interface. And lord I tried!

    Dragon's Dogma does several things better than the Elder Scrolls games such as combat, the details of the enemies/monsters, heck I would even say the companion ai is better.

    But it's not much of a world. Though I would then say that the expansion, that huge dungeon, is simply one of the best I've ever played.



  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,257
    Still a load of twattle.

    The single most complained about thing when it comes to ESO is that it does not feel or play like an Elder Scrolls game. You can shill all you want, it isnt going to change anything nor is it going to make the games population rise.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,671

    Torval said:

    The new remastered Skyrim looks really good. I was surprised at how well that was done. My son is playing remastered on PS4 and he's having as good a time as his modded Steam version.

    That said, every single time I play Skyrim I end up doing some short deed and logging into ESO. With the way it's grown and progressed ESO is a better game in every possible way.

    Skyrim questing feels so on rails. The werewolf quest chain is a good example. Don't want to become a werewolf then your time with them has ended even though you've been through thick and thin with them. Suddenly they have nothing else to say and the narrative at that corner of the world dies. It's no more permissive than ESO to me.

    Skyrim feels empty. That sort of feeling I remember getting when going over to my grandparents as a kid, to take care of the house, when they were away. It just felt empty like all the reasons you enjoy visiting are missing - the people. The rest is just window dressing.

    Combat in ESO is so much better for me. It feels tight and interactive. Skyrim combat feels clunky like they wanted the flexibility of turn based decision making in an action system. It's one of the most immersion breaking combat systems I've ever played. The constant pause and menu surfing drives me crazy. Yeah, I'm going to eat a full meal between turns to regen. Lame.

    ESO looks better. The character models. The world. Everything. I don't play with Skyrim mods really because I want the play the game the creators made, not some hobby project by modders. If I just wanted single player eye candy I can get it in other titles without having to deal with modders.



    This is because Skyrim is anything but openworld. There is nothing openworld about Skyrim at all. Bethesda created the illusion of OW by breaking 1 big RPG into half a dozen smaller RPGs and putting it under a main theme so you can alternate between arks. But within each individual ark? You have NO options except play or dont' play. Oh but you want your Shout don't you? But the one thing about Skyrim that drives me through the wall is how blatantly and obviously disconnected the stories are from each other.

    In Dawnguard, there is a word that does not appear in Serana's dialog. "Dragonborn" (Or Dovahkiin for that matter). She never says it. it was never written into her character.
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member UncommonPosts: 380
    edited February 2017

    Amjoco said:

    Before the game released I studied the lore by watching youtube videos and reading hours of information. I wasn't naive enough to think the mmo would be anywhere near as in-depth as the single player games, but I was sorely upset that it came nowhere even close. I played a few weeks and occasionally go back, but its pretty much the same thing with way less content than other titles offer for a subscription. 
    I wanted to find something new in a cave, or a hidden treasure in a crack behind a waterfall. There is no real exploring that made the franchise what it is. 
    I love the idea of the game, but it just isn't fun to me.



    That's kinda funny, considering I find treasure chests hidden out of the way all the time. I specifically go looking for out of the way spots, some which look like you shouldn't be able to get there, but with some observation and careful navigation, you can... and more times than not, I'd found an Advanced or Master level treasure chest hidden there. I've found "cave behind a waterfall" type locations that reward a keen eye. The game simply does not point them all out to you (unless you're using an add-on that shows all their locations, in which case the add-on is ruining the experience, not the game itself).

    That said, I've found ESO be, aside from GW2, the most explorer-friendly MMO on the market that I've played personally. ESO's Tamriel absolutely feels like a world to me, with NPCs actively engaging you asking for help, not standing around with a ! over their head, waiting for you to approach them. I've come across random encounters in-progress as I've wandered around that weren't happening specifically "for me", but were just *happening*. Sorcerers opening up portals to Oblivion which must then be closed, folks broken down and stranded, and needing your help. It's as though the world doesn't care that you're there - it's just going on and things are happening whether you're there or not. And that's awesome.

    On the other hand, there are numerous situations where my decisions have a direct impact on my experience going forward.

    A particularly poignant example was a situation where I was asked to speak to the ghost of a woman's lover, only to find out he never really cared about her. I had the choice of lying to her so she could go on in blissful ignorance, or telling the truth and explaining what he'd really said. I decided the Truth was the right way to go, however hard to speak or hear it might be. I found her ghost later, standing on the side of the road, still in mourning. In her sadness over the news I delivered, she had taken her own life. For a moment, I felt like shit because *I* was responsible for that outcome. Had I lied to her, she might still be alive... believing a lie, but alive.

    The entire situation was written convincingly, with maturity and gravity, and it was just a short little side-quest that I came across while on my way somewhere. I could just as well have missed it. I could have decided not to pick it up.

    That experience was one of the key things that sold me on ESO. Not since certain storyline missions in FFXI has a storyline in a MMORPG ever hit me emotionally like that. I've gone on to have similar experiences in ESO, and its world has only drawn me in further as I go.

    While I can appreciate that others' experiences haven't been the same, I am reading some of the comments others are posting and wondering how they're approaching the game to be having such a seemingly hollow experience, or missing out on these things I encounter pretty regularly in my travels.

    Maybe they're just skipping the dialog, and not paying attention to the world around them? Maybe they're sabotaging and undermining their own experience with the typical "race to level cap because end game is all that matters" mentality many gamers have nowadays? Maybe they're removing all sense of exploration and discovery by using addons that show the exact location of every item and point-of-interest in the game? I have no idea. But some people in this thread seem to be playing a very different ESO than me.
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