Why is this site so negative?

Gdemami · January 2017

Slapshot1188 said:
How so?

Sovrath just said what he thinks about ways of expressing yourself here - nothing offensive at all, and you immeditaley jumped the gun...talking about control and freedom to express yourself the way you see fit and how you should ignore stuff you do not like.

Slapshot1188 · January 2017

Gdemami said:

Slapshot1188 said:
How so?

Sovrath just said what he thinks about ways of expressing yourself here - nothing offensive at all, and you immeditaley jumped the gun...talking about control and freedom to express yourself the way you see fit and how you should ignore stuff you do not like.

Not at all. I gave him an option to not HEAR speech he found offensive. There is a HUGE difference between the two which is the whole point of my posts. If you think I want to stop his ability to post thoughts (even those counter to my own) you are very mistaken.

Albatroes · January 2017

So according to the OP, people should only acknowledge the positives in the gaming community and ignore the negatives.

Something being negative is mostly subjective. The other perspective is criticism, which people seem to automatically label as negative based on their perception of it. If someone's criticism can bring at least one counter point to "fix" the issue or bring knowledge to one criticizing then people would acknowledge it as constructive. It also depends on how many times the person have brought up point after point in repetitive threads until words end up being minced. For example, I often say "negative" things about FFXIV and have given "fixes" accompanied with those criticisms. But sometimes you may see a thread and want to give both sides of a coin instead of just one, like how I often see in written and video reviews of the particular game that the end game raiding is one of the best on the market. These comments are often made by people who have not experienced said content or even bother to get information from more than close people who play, which in turn makes it subjective instead of objective. The fights are solid, depending on the type of player you are, but the loot in not. Whether people like to admit it or not, the loot is just as important as the challenge of the content, otherwise people will not continuously run it (please spare me on the 'but I've run X content all the time with friends').

Point is, its better to give "negative" information vs information that is incomplete, so that people are not wasting their time since for many, time is more valuable than money. And that can be applied to several threads about publishers/developers/etc. Its simply informing those that may not have information or bother to search for information before "getting excited" about something. Most of us on this site are adults and should be able to handle the truth about products we are about to engage in instead of blindly following the next new thing.

Gdemami · January 2017

Slapshot1188 said:
If you think I want to stop his ability to post thoughts (even those counter to my own) you are very mistaken.

You don't? Well, you are saying - suck it up and take charge of what you hear.

The problem isn't the discussion about what one finds offensive - supposed Sovrath's post but reactions to such thoughts. You put such discussion out of table and implied we should ignore all we dislike, no discussion allowed.

Overly securing personal rights leads to their restriction...political correctness we see today.

ConstantineMerus · January 2017

@Iselin now I like you more than I can keep it Platonic.

Talonsin · January 2017

There are so many "rainbows and butterflys" game sites out there that severely limit any negativity. I personally do not want to live in a world where people are not allowed to express a negative opinion. Many of the negative posts on this site have saved me from wasting money on poor quality games or investing in kickstarter scams like Greed Monger. When was the last time you read a negative story in a gamer magazine?

People come here because official game sites are so heavily moderated. Read some of the history of the Mortal Online forums and how heavily moderated that site is. Can you honestly say you can get a good grasp of the games pros and cons from that site?

The gaming media makes its money from game advertising. If your site contains negative content about a game, that developer will not advertise on it. This is the reason the gaming media has changed so dramatically over the last 15 years and why almost every major game magazine and news site has so little negative content. Why do you think this site has added non-game related ads? So they are not totally under the control of game developers.

If you only want positive news, there are tons of others places to go. If you want only negative news, you can go to the something awful forums. If you want honest discussion of good points and bad, this site is your only hope.

Iselin · January 2017

ConstantineMerus said:

@Iselin now I like you more than I can keep it Platonic.

Hey! Keep it in your pants guy.

Unless you're a girl of course in which case... Howyadoing!

ConstantineMerus · January 2017

DMKano said:

Iselin said:

BillMurphy said:

I can also say that a large part of our regular forum commenters come from the outcry against SWG when it underwent massive changes years ago. We saw a flood of traffic to our forums from there, and that particular event in MMO history created more anger than any other.

Maybe a bit of that but I think MMORPG players tend to be more passionate about the games we play than those who play other types of games... I think it's that whole "live in a world" thing that does it.

You should hang out with ranked MOBA or any eSports players - the collective MMORPG players don't have shit on them.

So no I don't think it's "live in a world" thing at all. It has to do with how seriously people take their games.

Although you are right, but it is a very different kind of passion. I used to play Quake 3 Arena professionally years ago. We were basically a creed, a brotherhood. We lived most of the time with each other, took trips, travel around to participate in tournaments, were each other's best men at the weddings, even named our children after each other. We are still very close. But our passion was more like any other sports team.

I have a different crew, which started after I retired from pro-gaming and got into serious MMORPGing! Now rarely met because we are from all around the world. And our passion is more like a poetry group. We RP, we share writing, we imagine stuff together. To be honest I think there is more depth here, because we've all given up on pro-gaming but this, this is for life. At least it is with me.

I can't say which type of game I cared about more honestly. But I can definitely say these passions were and are really different. But to be honest, I don't see the passion for example Quake players had back then in today's MOBA players. I am still active in the field and know a lot of them, they are a very different generation. They sit next to each other and text each other! >.<

SirAgravaine · January 2017

Because this forum is full of people that don't actually play MMORPGs, they just fantasize about the prospect of the "perfect" one.

rodingo · January 2017

Unfortunately some people take critical comments about their current or favorite MMO as a personal attack and reply with personal attacks in kind. I was like that when I joined the site 10 years ago but I think I have "matured" a little since then. That said it's unfortunate when a certain few people in certain games act that way. Luckily they do not represent an entire game's player base but it does seem to tarnish a game's community never the less. You can tell by the way some of them post that they are fine with that as well. Then you just have to decide if they are worth engaging with or just better off ignored.

One thing I have noticed from this site though is that I have never seen anyone convince another with an opposing view to their way of thinking. I think anonymity, stubbornness, and pride prevent that from happening.

Bjelar · January 2017

Why is this site so negative? I think it is because of the untapped potential of the greatest genre in video gaming.
MMOs could be so fantastic. This is how I want to spend my spare time. I want to play a good MMO. And then I get what`s on the market instead.

-There are too many money-men involved in the development process. "What will our shareholders like" becomes a more important question than "what will our players like".
-There are too many old farts who had some good ideas back in last century who now are in charge. We need someone who still have got pimples in their faces to lead the way, not someone who is still in love with Ultima Online.
-You can`t have anything nice for free. Good products cost money, but no gamer wants to pay for a good game. It is easier to just complain here.

Slapshot1188 · January 2017

Gdemami said:

Slapshot1188 said:
If you think I want to stop his ability to post thoughts (even those counter to my own) you are very mistaken.

You don't? Well, you are saying - suck it up and take charge of what you hear.

The problem isn't the discussion about what one finds offensive - supposed Sovrath's post but reactions to such thoughts. You put such discussion out of table and implied we should ignore all we dislike, no discussion allowed.

Overly securing personal rights leads to their restriction...political correctness we see today.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. (at least everything except the last sentence)

I never said he couldn't post 100 or 1000 more times saying he disliked the way others expressed themselves. Not once did I say he, you or the OP should stop posting on this topic.

I also never said you SHOULD ignore what you dislike. I said you COULD and that this was PREFERABLE to stifling any thoughts, speech or tactics that you find discomforting. I could care less what YOU choose to hear. I don't want to force you to hear anything, but I will continue to point out that we should not EVER stop people from being free to express those thoughts.. PARTICULARLY when all you need to do to ignore them is hit a simple button. This purity of thought is the dangerous slope we are traveling down. I don't have to agree with a single thing you have said. I can think you are 100 percent wrong.. every single word... but I think it's important that you CAN say it.

Slapshot1188 · January 2017

rodingo said:

Unfortunately some people take critical comments about their current or favorite MMO as a personal attack and reply with personal attacks in kind. I was like that when I joined the site 10 years ago but I think I have "matured" a little since then.

Agreed

Slapshot1188 · January 2017

Talonsin said:

There are so many "rainbows and butterflys" game sites out there that severely limit any negativity. I personally do not want to live in a world where people are not allowed to express a negative opinion. Many of the negative posts on this site have saved me from wasting money on poor quality games or investing in kickstarter scams like Greed Monger. When was the last time you read a negative story in a gamer magazine?

People come here because official game sites are so heavily moderated. Read some of the history of the Mortal Online forums and how heavily moderated that site is. Can you honestly say you can get a good grasp of the games pros and cons from that site?

The gaming media makes its money from game advertising. If your site contains negative content about a game, that developer will not advertise on it. This is the reason the gaming media has changed so dramatically over the last 15 years and why almost every major game magazine and news site has so little negative content. Why do you think this site has added non-game related ads? So they are not totally under the control of game developers.

If you only want positive news, there are tons of others places to go. If you want only negative news, you can go to the something awful forums. If you want honest discussion of good points and bad, this site is your only hope.

Well said.

Gdemami · January 2017

Slapshot1188 said:
I also never said you SHOULD ignore what you dislike.

/shrugs

Slapshot1188 said:
Yes. More people should use it.
...
Again... if in YOUR OPINION you dislike the manner that people express their views then use the damn ignore button and you will not have to see them. Take charge of what YOU hear and see

ste2000 · January 2017

TENTING · January 2017

Slapshot1188 said:

Gdemami said:

Slapshot1188 said:
If you think I want to stop his ability to post thoughts (even those counter to my own) you are very mistaken.

You don't? Well, you are saying - suck it up and take charge of what you hear.

The problem isn't the discussion about what one finds offensive - supposed Sovrath's post but reactions to such thoughts. You put such discussion out of table and implied we should ignore all we dislike, no discussion allowed.

Overly securing personal rights leads to their restriction...political correctness we see today.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. (at least everything except the last sentence)

I never said he couldn't post 100 or 1000 more times saying he disliked the way others expressed themselves. Not once did I say he, you or the OP should stop posting on this topic.

I also never said you SHOULD ignore what you dislike. I said you COULD and that this was PREFERABLE to stifling any thoughts, speech or tactics that you find discomforting. I could care less what YOU choose to hear. I don't want to force you to hear anything, but I will continue to point out that we should not EVER stop people from being free to express those thoughts.. PARTICULARLY when all you need to do to ignore them is hit a simple button. This purity of thought is the dangerous slope we are traveling down. I don't have to agree with a single thing you have said. I can think you are 100 percent wrong.. every single word... but I think it's important that you CAN say it.

I am not for or against your opinion on the matter. As is common for me, I prefer a middle ground.

I do have to wonder though, since I see these very same arguments in trade channel in WoW ever so often, a place where each side of the spectrum is often colliding. Maybe less so these days, but once it was often.

When people request that people tone down things a little and just converse in a way that a lot of people perceive as well mannered, these people asking for a moderate tone, are told to just hit the ignore button.

Over the years this is what people have done and will keep doing, so now trade is at a point where its basically only people of the more vulgar speaking kinds, yelling profanity at each other all day long.

Is this the path you would prefer the world to take?

A place where well mannered people keep quiet and only the loud snap talk, rap battle crowd is meant to converse? And everyone who does not like that is told to take a hike?

I do understand that the ignore function is smart and easy, but as a wider phenomena, maybe its not the well behaved people that you should fear so much? They are after all typically pretty well mannered?

But anyway, I am not for or against, I am curious about how people at each their end of the spectrum will somehow develop a way to meet in the middle one day.

And imo this forum is really well mannered, even when people disagree its like watching well educated gentlemen bash each other wearing gloves.
Very enjoyable.

Burntvet · January 2017

As to the OP, I have to agree with one of Slap's earlier posts: there is more negative stuff here, because it is not deleted like at official sites. That said, for many years MMORPG.com has been known for doing puff and promotional pieces, for paid advertisers, so that makes up for them allowing "negative" opinions.

bartoni33 · January 2017

I've been here for a decade or so and I've seen trends towards vitriolic hateposting off and on.

Obviously SWG created mucho hate for the CU/NGE. I remember AOC and WAR creating some shitposting because for some reason the fans thereof were convinced that those two games were going to "kill WoW"! Imagine that! Silly to think now but still. GW2 was a big negative content creator before launch too.

OMG let's not forget Darkfall! THAT was the craziest I remember it getting here until SC. Now SC is the "Whiteknight vs.Troll" forum champion here. STAY AWAY if you are easily hurt like OP is (also do not call someone a Whitenight, they don't like it for some reason). I've had to quit posting there so much myself because I'm getting shit from both sides now. No middle ground there folks!

TL;DR Nothing wrong with this site, it ebbs and flows.

EDIT: Oh yeah Ignore is your friend. I only have one asshat on it but they don't seem to post here anymore.

I do enjoy seeing some posters letting their freak flag wave though, it's like Outsider Art!

[Deleted User] · January 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Moirae · January 2017

Crusadecrusher said:

On any given day this site has a new doom and gloom thread about mmorpgs.

On any thread on a particular game it's full of people complaining about that game even when it's clear they don't play it.

Any time there is a thread about a developer it's full of people complaining about that developer.

Any time there is a thread about a game getting a massive update you are guaranteed to see a comment calling it NGE.

Any time there is a thread about consoles the wanna be PC master race guys start foaming at the mouth and need to bash consoles.

Any time there is a thread about a non mmorpg there are people complaining about discussing non mmorpgs on this site.

It goes on and on the majority of the threads get hijacked by these complainers. Why does this site encourage this behavior and why are so many of you so angry? If mmorpgs or gaming in general makes you so angry why don't you look for a new hobby? The genre has changed its time to adapt and accept defeat.

Because we don't live under a rock and use critical thinking.

Shadanwolf · January 2017

OP my answer
I have been lied to by mmog companies more times than if I talked to a politician or used car salesman......AND I'M SICK OF AND I'M SICK OF IT AND NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE.

Kunai_Vax · January 2017

I like to come here and read people's posts, exchange idea's, challenge people's opinions, and even better, sometimes have my own changed. I really dont see this site as a negative one at all.
If you want ''negative'' try the WoW forums and do a comparison.

Cecropia · January 2017

Gdemami said:

Iselin said:
Well if you're so thick you need a roadmap... the point:

Most screwing does not happen as a business enterprise. The fact that it can be monetized just like art can is irrelevant... it's not its raison d'etre.

Ah, so there is no point. Things just come out of you...

Whoosh.

Slapshot1188 · January 2017

TENTING said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Gdemami said:

Slapshot1188 said:
If you think I want to stop his ability to post thoughts (even those counter to my own) you are very mistaken.

You don't? Well, you are saying - suck it up and take charge of what you hear.

The problem isn't the discussion about what one finds offensive - supposed Sovrath's post but reactions to such thoughts. You put such discussion out of table and implied we should ignore all we dislike, no discussion allowed.

Overly securing personal rights leads to their restriction...political correctness we see today.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. (at least everything except the last sentence)

I never said he couldn't post 100 or 1000 more times saying he disliked the way others expressed themselves. Not once did I say he, you or the OP should stop posting on this topic.

I also never said you SHOULD ignore what you dislike. I said you COULD and that this was PREFERABLE to stifling any thoughts, speech or tactics that you find discomforting. I could care less what YOU choose to hear. I don't want to force you to hear anything, but I will continue to point out that we should not EVER stop people from being free to express those thoughts.. PARTICULARLY when all you need to do to ignore them is hit a simple button. This purity of thought is the dangerous slope we are traveling down. I don't have to agree with a single thing you have said. I can think you are 100 percent wrong.. every single word... but I think it's important that you CAN say it.

I am not for or against your opinion on the matter. As is common for me, I prefer a middle ground.

I do have to wonder though, since I see these very same arguments in trade channel in WoW ever so often, a place where each side of the spectrum is often colliding. Maybe less so these days, but once it was often.

When people request that people tone down things a little and just converse in a way that a lot of people perceive as well mannered, these people asking for a moderate tone, are told to just hit the ignore button.

Over the years this is what people have done and will keep doing, so now trade is at a point where its basically only people of the more vulgar speaking kinds, yelling profanity at each other all day long.

Is this the path you would prefer the world to take?

A place where well mannered people keep quiet and only the loud snap talk, rap battle crowd is meant to converse? And everyone who does not like that is told to take a hike?

I do understand that the ignore function is smart and easy, but as a wider phenomena, maybe its not the well behaved people that you should fear so much? They are after all typically pretty well mannered?

But anyway, I am not for or against, I am curious about how people at each their end of the spectrum will somehow develop a way to meet in the middle one day.

And imo this forum is really well mannered, even when people disagree its like watching well educated gentlemen bash each other wearing gloves.
Very enjoyable.

I have no idea what happens in the WoW trade channel.

I also think you are taking it to an extreme by comparing people criticizing a game with "yelling profanity at each other all day long". That would be against the general rules of the site. If a place has RULES... you follow the rules. If you donj't like like the rules, you should skip that place.

In a theater for instance you don't stand up and recite the Gettysburg address while the movie or play is going on (unless you are acting in said play). On a forum however, who's entire purpose is to have discussions of various perspectives... people should be free to do that. There are of course rules here as well. I would not go into the WoW forum and start a thread about Star Citizen fundraising. I can honestly say, as someone that visits the site multiple times most days... that threads like that are very, VERY rare.

What is much more common is folks taking a criticism of their chosen game (valid or invalid) as a personal attack on themselves and then, feeling threatened start clamoring to stifle that person from posting. The better tactic is to either acknowledge a fair criticism or explain why it is unfair. If you cannot do so in a way that convinces the other readers... try harder next time... learn how to frame and argue a debate.

Alternately, if you do not like what you hear you can in fact easily self-censor that input via the ignore button. I would rather the person post why they disagree so that the debate can be engaged and more content created for the community.

* Note that other than the second sentence.. when I use YOU it is a generic word and not ascribed to you personally.

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