I will say though, I have started to believe that the reason we can not return to how things once was, is because a lot of people themselves will not spend the extra time on typing things to each other in a game. Making friends and mingle that way.
Or am I wrong?
(Yes I know somebody will tell me to google it, and then I can rest my case ^^ ) But the question still stands
My belief and gut feeling is it will never be the same, because there are way too many games, and more people online then ever before. I think everyone is too spread out and having all these choices reduces loyalty.
I think some of you are looking at this all wrong. I've had this debate as a mid 30's gamer numerous times. It will never be the same because YOU will never be the same. You've/we've changed. You have different experiences from the you years ago. You've had your first guild, first guild promotion, first TS chats, first raids.You can't get that back again no matter what game you play.
We older gamers constantly chase these feelings instead of accepting the fact that we're not the people we were 15/20 years ago. There were tons of games to play back in the early 2000's. That wasn't the reason things were different.
I think that never being able to "go home again" is certainly part of it but many things have changed in these past 20 years.
When mmorpgs or even the internet were all new to us we just assumed that people asking simple questions were new to it and our memory of having being there ourselves was fresh in our minds. There was a feeling of being pioneers and we benefited from all the communal good vibes that went along with that. All types of social interactions in them benefited from that.
20 years later a lot of that feeling is gone. It's not just that we have a lot more experience with these types of games, we expect others to have it as well. This is why answering simple questions with curt, snippy "google it" has become much more common - not because we have Google or because bad game design is making us do it but simply because the mmorpg playing community no longer thinks of itself as explorers in a new frontier.
That's not to say that we didn't have asshats 20 years ago or that there aren't a lot of people who still bend over backwards to help new players with simple things today. But what is very different now is how common and even socially acceptable it has become to the mob to be snippy and treat noobs as some subhuman "other."
This is also why brand new games tend to have much better community interaction when they first launch or if you're in an exclusive beta phase. It recaptures some of that "we're all exploring this for the first time" felling.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
People not talking to each other has nothing to do with "MMO", nothing with "today"; not even with technology. If people don't want to talk with each other, they'll find a way. Like, you know, simply not talking. Everything else is at most just a symptom of people not wanting to talk with each other.
And i see tons of people talk with other, be it in MMOs or otherwise. I admit that you often get pointed to Google, a wiki or whatever in MMOs when asking general things, but thats just because the information is already there, in a manner more complete than MMO chat could ever be.
Also, i don't play games to *chat* with people. I can write on a forum, comment on a blog, join IRC, TS, Discord, write mails, go out and talk with someone, call someone with my phone, whatever. I play games to *gasp* play.
I talk with someone if it's interesting or relevant for me, i'm not there to keep someone else happy or busy or whatever.
You also can't properly talk things that require attention in a public channel in an MMO. Messages are easily lost, especially if you continue to play in between, waiting for the other to answer.
Either make a group, or add the other as friends, or write a one line answer that provides more information than writing for hours: "Google it" or "go to the wiki" or "theres a youtube video about that".
Most people do not actually understand most mechanics, too. And many troll people when asking for simple things like key bindings. Many people also do not understand that people naturally want the default key bindings, it's no help to me if you tell me jump is on "Page Up" or that you put grenades on your 5th thumb button on your mouse.
It might also be someone is not asking for himself, but he is in TS etc. with a friend. Maybe that friend wasn't asking for himself, either, but for a friend who is at his house. So if someone writes it all out in chat, half of it might be wrong, half of it might be missed, and it has to be explained three times. A one line answer like "there are builds on the wiki" accomplishes several things:
1. It tells you there is a wiki 2. It tells you that the information you are looking for can be found there, probably in great detail 3. It (sometimes) allows you to copy the link directly from chat, and if not, telling someone "it's on the wiki" is way shorter and not as easily lost, mangled or not useful for a myriad of other reasons as half an hour talk over public chat. 4. It tells someone else there is a wiki. He didn't ask anything, and he doesn't want to know about builds right now, but he can look up other things. Now, or whenever.
Given that, aren't people actually more helpful today? They point you directly to the most complete and accurate information, which you even can visit at any time you want, over and over, and is easily forwarded to thousands of people at the same time.
And besides all that, public chat is almost always full of people talking. Just, as a consequence of the medium, about irrelevant stuff.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
I think you are trying to lump both of my points into one. [...]
I agree with ste, and the point is that your first point is wrong and not related to the OP True, browser is in the game for using it during investigation missions. It also can used to read the forums, or external guides. But those two are very strictly separated.
OPs question about helpful answers in chat and helpful community is unrelated to the in-game browser. That's just a tool, and used as one. As @ste2000 said "People who ask stuff in chat (I do) are not lazy, they just want to interact with other people." Really nice conversations used to spawn from simple questions on Sanctuary. And sure, if the answer is covered by a well-written forum post or a guide, it is not uncommon to simply post the link in chat or post an in-game popup guide (which is also available in the chat engine).
This helpful attitude applies to almost any question a player might have, with the exception of one - and that's why you're wrong. The exception is spoilers and solutions. So what you wrote, lazy players ask around for mission solutions, is completely different from what OP ment. And you won't get anwers to such questions on chat - you might get them via IMs, but not on general chat. I saw players even got reported for spilling spoilers on open chat. There's a channel called Mission Hints, but even that is only for giving hints and suggestions, not full solutions. If a player wants to ruin his own fun, he can easily use walkthrough sites from the web, but chat won't help him in that matter...
So, community is helpful and chat a lot, answering any game-related (or other ) questions, sometimes answering it by giving links to the in-game browser. But that has nothing to do with why the browser is there the first place (if there won't be a browser, the community still would be helpful), and also nothing to do with questions for exact mission solutions. (but maybe I just misinterpret the question, my english is weak.... but still better than google translate :awesome: )
So many great responses so far. Some of your posts I will have to read a few more times to get all the details.
Overall I will say it is a bit of a challenging subject, more so than I first initially would have thought, when I made the thread. But at least to myself personally, it challenges my way of thinking and hopefully I hope to gain a better way of receiving and observing the "google it" crowd.
Some of you allow me a deeper insight to your reasoning, which I appreciate, thank you all.
Comments
When mmorpgs or even the internet were all new to us we just assumed that people asking simple questions were new to it and our memory of having being there ourselves was fresh in our minds. There was a feeling of being pioneers and we benefited from all the communal good vibes that went along with that. All types of social interactions in them benefited from that.
20 years later a lot of that feeling is gone. It's not just that we have a lot more experience with these types of games, we expect others to have it as well. This is why answering simple questions with curt, snippy "google it" has become much more common - not because we have Google or because bad game design is making us do it but simply because the mmorpg playing community no longer thinks of itself as explorers in a new frontier.
That's not to say that we didn't have asshats 20 years ago or that there aren't a lot of people who still bend over backwards to help new players with simple things today. But what is very different now is how common and even socially acceptable it has become to the mob to be snippy and treat noobs as some subhuman "other."
This is also why brand new games tend to have much better community interaction when they first launch or if you're in an exclusive beta phase. It recaptures some of that "we're all exploring this for the first time" felling.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Both images taken from the linked article at https://digitalculturist.com/
People not talking to each other has nothing to do with "MMO", nothing with "today"; not even with technology. If people don't want to talk with each other, they'll find a way. Like, you know, simply not talking. Everything else is at most just a symptom of people not wanting to talk with each other.
And i see tons of people talk with other, be it in MMOs or otherwise. I admit that you often get pointed to Google, a wiki or whatever in MMOs when asking general things, but thats just because the information is already there, in a manner more complete than MMO chat could ever be.
Also, i don't play games to *chat* with people. I can write on a forum, comment on a blog, join IRC, TS, Discord, write mails, go out and talk with someone, call someone with my phone, whatever. I play games to *gasp* play.
I talk with someone if it's interesting or relevant for me, i'm not there to keep someone else happy or busy or whatever.
You also can't properly talk things that require attention in a public channel in an MMO. Messages are easily lost, especially if you continue to play in between, waiting for the other to answer.
Either make a group, or add the other as friends, or write a one line answer that provides more information than writing for hours: "Google it" or "go to the wiki" or "theres a youtube video about that".
Most people do not actually understand most mechanics, too. And many troll people when asking for simple things like key bindings. Many people also do not understand that people naturally want the default key bindings, it's no help to me if you tell me jump is on "Page Up" or that you put grenades on your 5th thumb button on your mouse.
It might also be someone is not asking for himself, but he is in TS etc. with a friend. Maybe that friend wasn't asking for himself, either, but for a friend who is at his house. So if someone writes it all out in chat, half of it might be wrong, half of it might be missed, and it has to be explained three times. A one line answer like "there are builds on the wiki" accomplishes several things:
1. It tells you there is a wiki
2. It tells you that the information you are looking for can be found there, probably in great detail
3. It (sometimes) allows you to copy the link directly from chat, and if not, telling someone "it's on the wiki" is way shorter and not as easily lost, mangled or not useful for a myriad of other reasons as half an hour talk over public chat.
4. It tells someone else there is a wiki. He didn't ask anything, and he doesn't want to know about builds right now, but he can look up other things. Now, or whenever.
Given that, aren't people actually more helpful today? They point you directly to the most complete and accurate information, which you even can visit at any time you want, over and over, and is easily forwarded to thousands of people at the same time.
And besides all that, public chat is almost always full of people talking. Just, as a consequence of the medium, about irrelevant stuff.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
True, browser is in the game for using it during investigation missions. It also can used to read the forums, or external guides. But those two are very strictly separated.
OPs question about helpful answers in chat and helpful community is unrelated to the in-game browser. That's just a tool, and used as one. As @ste2000 said "People who ask stuff in chat (I do) are not lazy, they just want to interact with other people." Really nice conversations used to spawn from simple questions on Sanctuary. And sure, if the answer is covered by a well-written forum post or a guide, it is not uncommon to simply post the link in chat or post an in-game popup guide (which is also available in the chat engine).
This helpful attitude applies to almost any question a player might have, with the exception of one - and that's why you're wrong. The exception is spoilers and solutions. So what you wrote, lazy players ask around for mission solutions, is completely different from what OP ment. And you won't get anwers to such questions on chat - you might get them via IMs, but not on general chat. I saw players even got reported for spilling spoilers on open chat. There's a channel called Mission Hints, but even that is only for giving hints and suggestions, not full solutions. If a player wants to ruin his own fun, he can easily use walkthrough sites from the web, but chat won't help him in that matter...
So, community is helpful and chat a lot, answering any game-related (or other
(but maybe I just misinterpret the question, my english is weak.... but still better than google translate :awesome: )
Overall I will say it is a bit of a challenging subject, more so than I first initially would have thought, when I made the thread.
But at least to myself personally, it challenges my way of thinking and hopefully I hope to gain a better way of receiving and observing the "google it" crowd.
Some of you allow me a deeper insight to your reasoning, which I appreciate, thank you all.