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  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.


  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,327
    edited January 2017
    In fact I remember camping hallways while waiting for the room  group to give up their camp to us. It was very common to do that. You know it's not like we did not play Everquest ...but hey whatever.

    I'd like to see how tolerant people are nowadays about these camping rules. Taking the hallway spawns when you also have a room was really greedy in a crowded dungeon by the way .
    Chamber of Chains
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    Dullahan,

    I didnt play EQ1 for more than a few weeks.  But I did play FFXI which was setup the same way and I can tell you even low level 15 spawns 100 people camped it and 100 people attacked that spawn to farm the gear.  This game play I could NEVER do again.  

    Like I said before when WOW was a good game I loved that game design.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,999
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,327
    I am hoping the team will clarify that the rare spawns give more cosmetic rather than really powerful items  if they intend to be on such long timers.

    Dan I played FFXI too and I recall those too my friend. Not counting the item to even open up levels. That took me one week to get so I can level again.
    Chamber of Chains
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Forgrimm said:
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
    Here is my question which would be more enjoyable.  This.   Or doing a Vanilla/TBC Dungeon which required Teamwork, coordination for even mob spawns, and time to complete the dungeon?  
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017
    an ancient croc

    Race: Alligator
    Class: Warrior
    Level: 30
    Spawn
    Zone: Upper Guk
    Location: 50% @ (1653, 462)
    Respawn Time: 16min 30sec

    It will be up to VR to make sure that servers have a good population to content balance. It sounds like your server might have been overcrowded. Sorry to hear that diminished the experience for you.


  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,999
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
    Here is my question which would be more enjoyable.  This.   Or doing a Vanilla/TBC Dungeon which required Teamwork, coordination for even mob spawns, and time to complete the dungeon?  
    I'd rather be doing something that required teamwork and coordination. I just don't see any fun in camping a static spawn for hours on end. But at the same time, I don't find any fun in chain-running the same dungeons over and over like people are doing with mythic + dungeons in WoW now.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    edited January 2017
    MaximusNova said:
    These guilds were like a second family were every one knew each other, this is what i hope pantheon will bring back.  
    Not going to happen, it has nothing to do with game mechanics.

    Games do not create players, players create games.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Forgrimm said:
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
    Here is my question which would be more enjoyable.  This.   Or doing a Vanilla/TBC Dungeon which required Teamwork, coordination for even mob spawns, and time to complete the dungeon?  
    I'd rather be doing something that required teamwork and coordination. I just don't see any fun in camping a static spawn for hours on end. But at the same time, I don't find any fun in chain-running the same dungeons over and over like people are doing with mythic + dungeons in WoW now.
    Thats because Mythic Dungeons are not Vanilla/TBC WOW dungeons.  They are just dungeons where you chain pull and you need to max out your HPS and DPS.  There is no coordination like if you did Shattered Halls Heroic which was a fucking BITCH but it was so much fun and you didnt chain run Shattered halls unless you were T6 geared.  Shattered Halls was a dungeon you did ever few weeks for fun because it took effort.   

    This is what people dont understand most people didnt chain run during Vanilla\TBC  Yea I did ZF 10+ times in 2 months when I was first leveling.  BUT my friends always needed me to tank.  Thing was my healer was not always the same and neither was my DPS so pulls were always different.  Yes I understand Shadowlabs heroic was nearly impossible without at least 1 mage, BUT a good team would know how to deal with the 7 mob pull.  I know because I did Shadowlabs heroic without a mage.

    Problem is people dont want to say, OK what do I need to do with this mob pack since I dont have the ideal group make up.  It's call strategy and come up with a way.  

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Gdemami said:
    MaximusNova said:
    These guilds were like a second family were every one knew each other, this is what i hope pantheon will bring back.  
    Not going to happen, it has nothing to do with game mechanics.

    Games do not create players, players create games.

    Sorry but I disagree with this.  Since LFD was introduced people endlessly tell others in their guild and people who are LFG in chat to "Just Fucking QUEUE up and stop Fucking ASKING for help to run a Dungeon"   Sorry them are the exact words I have heard time and time and time again since LFD game out.   YES Game Mechanics has an impact on how players behave and how the game is created.  
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    There's nothing wrong with group finders in theory. The problem is developers turn them into lazy boy buttons. The other issue is people are on here going on about being social etc while having a giant pair of rose colored goggles on from confines of their personal bubble.

    Having a post board where people can form groups and join with each other is not a bad mechanic. It's the implementation. There also should be incentive for people to join groups and mechanics to reward friendly and cooperative people.

    I understand not wanting a [Press Button Warp To Dungeon With 4 Other Strangers Who Won't Talk To Me] but [Spam General Chat and Be At The Mercy Of Somebody Else To Do Stuff or F#%k Off] isn't viable either.

    This is in general and not aimed at Pantheon specifically.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,178
    Dullahan said:
    Rare spawn system in EQ was awesome. It's part of what made gearing up feel rewarding and items valuable. If people don't like something as core as killing mobs to get rare items, they should probably reevaluate their choice of mmorpgs as a hobby, FOR ME.
    FTFY :chuffed:
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    edited January 2017
    Anyway I am going to drop out of this chat.  My feelings are well known.  I wish Pantheon the best of luck, I hope they do not add a LFD tool but a Party & Player browser wouldnt hurt.   I also hope Pantheon does well because maybe it will help bring back community to MMOs again and others will follow suit and move away from the treadmill that MMOs have become.  I do think a mix of modern MMO gaming with Old MMO Gaming is good.  We should learn from the success of vanilla WOW and TBC WOW and see what they did do right even with Time sinks and the effort of getting groups.  There is a good lesson for all MMORPGs going forward.

    Also thank you for Troval, forgrimm, Dullahan and everyone else for not making this forum post toxic.  I like to see good logical conversation even if there is passion involved as long as it is not toxic.

    :)  
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,999
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
    Here is my question which would be more enjoyable.  This.   Or doing a Vanilla/TBC Dungeon which required Teamwork, coordination for even mob spawns, and time to complete the dungeon?  
    I'd rather be doing something that required teamwork and coordination. I just don't see any fun in camping a static spawn for hours on end. But at the same time, I don't find any fun in chain-running the same dungeons over and over like people are doing with mythic + dungeons in WoW now.
    Thats because Mythic Dungeons are not Vanilla/TBC WOW dungeons.  They are just dungeons where you chain pull and you need to max out your HPS and DPS.  There is no coordination like if you did Shattered Halls Heroic which was a fucking BITCH but it was so much fun and you didnt chain run Shattered halls unless you were T6 geared.  Shattered Halls was a dungeon you did ever few weeks for fun because it took effort.   

    This is what people dont understand most people didnt chain run during Vanilla\TBC  Yea I did ZF 10+ times in 2 months when I was first leveling.  BUT my friends always needed me to tank.  Thing was my healer was not always the same and neither was my DPS so pulls were always different.  Yes I understand Shadowlabs heroic was nearly impossible without at least 1 mage, BUT a good team would know how to deal with the 7 mob pull.  I know because I did Shadowlabs heroic without a mage.

    Problem is people dont want to say, OK what do I need to do with this mob pack since I dont have the ideal group make up.  It's call strategy and come up with a way.  

    Yup, I'm aware, been playing WoW since 2005. In TBC heroics were actually heroic. It wasn't until Wrath that heroics became a "go, go, go!" faceroll fest.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,178
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    There it is folks, on his server it never happened that way. It was all good from the get-go.

    Now you fucked up noobs on the other servers that were doing it wrong, well it was your server's fault too. They were also ALL doing it wrong. So now you know why it wasn't working for you but will work because "anecdotal fact magic" says so.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Forgrimm said:
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    danwest58 said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Dullahan said:
    Nobody took my spawns as long as I didn't leave them up. If you cleared the room and party members are camping in the room while you pull to it, nobody would take it. Dunno what server you saw behavior other than this, but that's how it worked on all of the live servers I played on, as well as both p99 blue and red.
    I was on Solusek Ro. And when you were lucky enough to get a room, you got the room and that was it. Which meant we'd kill the 3 or so placeholder crocs every 45 minutes, hoping for the ancient spawn. One of us would stay at the pc to let others know we had the spot since they would keep asking. The other would afk and set an alarm for 45 minutes and come back to help when the spawns were up.
    Here is my question which would be more enjoyable.  This.   Or doing a Vanilla/TBC Dungeon which required Teamwork, coordination for even mob spawns, and time to complete the dungeon?  
    I'd rather be doing something that required teamwork and coordination. I just don't see any fun in camping a static spawn for hours on end. But at the same time, I don't find any fun in chain-running the same dungeons over and over like people are doing with mythic + dungeons in WoW now.
    Thats because Mythic Dungeons are not Vanilla/TBC WOW dungeons.  They are just dungeons where you chain pull and you need to max out your HPS and DPS.  There is no coordination like if you did Shattered Halls Heroic which was a fucking BITCH but it was so much fun and you didnt chain run Shattered halls unless you were T6 geared.  Shattered Halls was a dungeon you did ever few weeks for fun because it took effort.   

    This is what people dont understand most people didnt chain run during Vanilla\TBC  Yea I did ZF 10+ times in 2 months when I was first leveling.  BUT my friends always needed me to tank.  Thing was my healer was not always the same and neither was my DPS so pulls were always different.  Yes I understand Shadowlabs heroic was nearly impossible without at least 1 mage, BUT a good team would know how to deal with the 7 mob pull.  I know because I did Shadowlabs heroic without a mage.

    Problem is people dont want to say, OK what do I need to do with this mob pack since I dont have the ideal group make up.  It's call strategy and come up with a way.  

    Yup, I'm aware, been playing WoW since 2005. In TBC heroics were actually heroic. It wasn't until Wrath that heroics became a "go, go, go!" faceroll fest.
    YEP and it was not until WOTLK that people started quitting WOW.  A good tuned Dungeon like TBC and Vanilla can be good for all.  
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:
    Sorry but I disagree with this.  Since LFD was introduced people endlessly tell others in their guild and people who are LFG in chat to "Just Fucking QUEUE up and stop Fucking ASKING for help to run a Dungeon"   Sorry them are the exact words I have heard time and time and time again since LFD game out.   YES Game Mechanics has an impact on how players behave and how the game is created.  
    1) Correlation does not imply causation.
    2) You mistake cause for consequence.

    Supply always follows the demand, not the other way round.
  • TyranusPrimeTyranusPrime Member UncommonPosts: 306
    edited January 2017
    WellzyC said:
    Group finder only breeds antisocial behavior. People will not care about their reputation among players. Mega servers/finders make a mmo empty and shallow.

     On a server of a thousand or so, if you ditched grps or acted like a donkey, people didn't grp with you. It was in your best interest to be nice.

    that's why games like EQ and DAOC were so much fun. You knew most of the people you played with. You recognize players and guilds walking around the city, you remember their names in chat. It was large enough to feel like a community and small enough where people's actions/attitudes mattered. 

    I could not agree more.. Remember the days when people acted like asshats in a game, and that behavior got them blackballed by most guilds and groups? Pepperidge farm remembers.. :P

    Consequences to your actions.. No hiding behind the computer screen and laughing due to your anonymity.. Rose-colored glasses aside, of course there were still issue that existed in the early MMO days, but people actually cared about how they represented themselves to the community..

    ..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    TyranusPrime said:
    of course there were still issue that existed in the early MMO days, but people actually cared about how they represented themselves to the community..
    ...and you say that right after "Rose-colored glasses aside". /sigh
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,358
    edited January 2017
    Gdemami said:
    danwest58 said:
    Sorry but I disagree with this.  Since LFD was introduced people endlessly tell others in their guild and people who are LFG in chat to "Just Fucking QUEUE up and stop Fucking ASKING for help to run a Dungeon"   Sorry them are the exact words I have heard time and time and time again since LFD game out.   YES Game Mechanics has an impact on how players behave and how the game is created.  
    1) Correlation does not imply causation.
    2) You mistake cause for consequence.

    Supply always follows the demand, not the other way round.
    It sounds to me like there is quite the DEMAND for "no LFD tool" in Pantheon, so I guess the SUPPLY will follow?
    --------------------------------------------
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    edited January 2017
    Wellspring said:
    It sounds to me like there is quite the demand for "no LFD tool" in Pantheon, so I guess the supply will follow?
    Yeah, entire market shifted their designes and LFD was implemented in pretty much any game but it indeed sounds to you as demand for "no-LFD"....

    But who cares about reason, right?


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,178
    Gdemami said:
    danwest58 said:
    Sorry but I disagree with this.  Since LFD was introduced people endlessly tell others in their guild and people who are LFG in chat to "Just Fucking QUEUE up and stop Fucking ASKING for help to run a Dungeon"   Sorry them are the exact words I have heard time and time and time again since LFD game out.   YES Game Mechanics has an impact on how players behave and how the game is created.  
    1) Correlation does not imply causation.
    2) You mistake cause for consequence.

    Supply always follows the demand, not the other way round.
    And I have never had a guildmate say that. I don't belong to guilds that treat other members like that.

    People might not have the time for a run or some other reason but no one talks to others like that looking for a dungeon run.

    This is how it works in a guild where people aren't assholes. People announce what they're running and ask if anyone wants to come before they queue up or get pugs. Guildies join and you either queue as a group and let the tool fill in or ask for pugs in chat and then queue up as a full group.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,178
    Gdemami said:
    danwest58 said:
    Sorry but I disagree with this.  Since LFD was introduced people endlessly tell others in their guild and people who are LFG in chat to "Just Fucking QUEUE up and stop Fucking ASKING for help to run a Dungeon"   Sorry them are the exact words I have heard time and time and time again since LFD game out.   YES Game Mechanics has an impact on how players behave and how the game is created.  
    1) Correlation does not imply causation.
    2) You mistake cause for consequence.

    Supply always follows the demand, not the other way round.
    It sounds to me like there is quite the DEMAND for "no LFD tool" in Pantheon, so I guess the SUPPLY will follow?
    Where did you get that idea? Aradune even said there will be LFG tools and I think earlier in this very thread.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:

    YEP and it was not until WOTLK that people started quitting WOW.  A good tuned Dungeon like TBC and Vanilla can be good for all.  
    Not so.

    I assume what you are talking about is that the number of WoW subscribers that Blizzard reported continued to grow until WOTLK.

    This does not allow for churn. Remember a c. 2 years back Blizzard announced that WoW "had" 100M accounts. When they announced it that implied that - on average - c. 10M people a year left WoW. No update so today the average is c. 8M a year.  They left before WOTLK; they left after WOTLK. On average almost 1M people a month.

    Growth up to WOTLK and the decline after? Couple of things to take into account here:

    First product availability. Blizzard released the game progressively into new countries. US, first, EU six months later; China was another 6 months later; Brazil, Thailand, Malaysia were 2009 I think - quite a lot later anyway. And there were other countries. Each new country will have generated a bump. Once you run out of new countries you run out of bumps.

    Second: product age. As products age they decline. Any product - games, cars, whatever. Its documented (Product Life Cycle). 

    And the product life cycle influences how much "effort" companies put into keeping a product "fresh". The alternative being to develop a rand new product - bearing in mind that companies only have so much money. (Overwatch anyone). Supporting a product can slow down the - inevitable - decline; not supporting a product can hasten it.

    I suggest that the content holiday of c. 23 months and second content holiday post WoD of c. 13 months did far more to hurt WoW then any group finder tool.

    That isnot to say the tool didn't harm WoW simple no evidence. My own view is that LFG tools are not the issue its the auto-transport mechanism. There and back. Which can "destroy" immersion. 
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