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The problems with LFG in chat

In a group orientated mmo finding other players is an age old problem.


Player mindset never changes.  The popular method seems to be using general chat.  Yes, spamming chat for hours.  This method sucks, yet its widely used.

- Players don't always catch rolling chat.

- Players are intimidated, and fear NOT KNOWING the content, then simply don't volunteer.  

- Acronyms, the three letter abbreviations that new players don't understand.   



Here's an example:

I'm playing LOTRO and I just randomly logged in to get this example of rolling chat.

BBS++2/3
Box 1/3
SS T2 farm 1 boss 5/6 (tank)
Hammer 1/2 any level welcome
Can anyone do Minas trith with me
Boxes 2/3

What the hell does all this mean ?.........I'm not asking someone to explain LOTRO to me.  I'm saying this is intimidating !

This makes players play solo, This makes player stop playing. This is EVERY MMO !.......What to do about it?.....I don't know. 

Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528
    edited January 2017
    I think a major problem is developers sit along side each other and easily discuss situations. They know the content ( they made it ).


    What they don't understand, is the struggle players have in deciphering the content.  Add the players have to type !.......Many of us are veteran mmo players, will put up with it, most don't.

    If a developers could solve this issue, they will have a gem !
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,609
    edited January 2017
    Maybe people asking for groups should come across more human than robots?

    I'd love to see more "Hey there adventurers, were looking for people to run some group content. Not bothered if we succeed or fail, just get together and have a blast trying." in global or lff.

    More people will feel less intimidated in joining groups if they feel like they don't have to win at all costs.

    image
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528
    immodium said:
    Maybe people asking for groups should come across more human than robots?

    I'd love to see more "Hey there adventurers, were looking for people to run some group content. Not bothered if we succeed or fail, just get together and have a blast trying." in global or lff.

    More people will feel less intimidated in joining groups if they feel like they don't have to win at all costs.

    YES !!! I'm with you on this.

    Problem is all the power is in the developers hands.


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528
    edited January 2017
    I proved chat advertising is bad long time ago.


    I learned early on in World of Warcraft to use the social panel, thn spam players individually.

    I learned I can fill ANY group in less than 10 minuets instead of spamming chat for hours ! 


    I used this method in every mmo including Vanguard when the population was the lowest !
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,609
    edited January 2017

    Problem is all the power is in the developers hands.
    Maybe get rid of levels and linear content?

    If you do make friends in game, more often than not you will be leveling differently. Yes you may catch them up with xp potions.

    It would be better if for example I took a week off playing but my friends didn't, I can still just login and play with them without having to catch them up through/areas content. I've not been left behind.

    Otherwise you'll just be making an effort meeting new people constantly and some just can't be bothered with that.

    That's why the LFG tool came into existance. LFG is for casual players who want to just play with others but can't be bothered putting in the effort to make friends.

    image
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528
    immodium said:

    Problem is all the power is in the developers hands.
    Maybe get rid of levels and linear content?

    If you do make friends in game, more often than not you will be leveling differently. Yes you may catch them up with xp potions.

    It would be better if for example I took a week off playing but my friends didn't, I can still just login and play with them without having to catch them up through/areas content. I've not been left behind.

    Otherwise you'll just be making an effort meeting new people constantly and some just can't be bothered with that.

    That's why the LFG tool came into existance. LFG is for casual players who want to just play with others but can't be bothered putting in the effort to make friends.

    A little off topic, but you bring up a good point.


    ALL newer mmos, you level too fast.  Often its one or two quest per level.


    Take a day off to go to the gym, and your friend is now twelve levels above you !...bad for community.


    MMO are too small ( 30 day games ),
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    I doubt acronyms will be flying around in a game that is new to everyone.
    Also if you're shy/introverted and don't like typing in general, just play a class that's in demand and wait for people to LFM. Then all you need to do is "/w Invite please".
    I don't really understand why people see finding groups as a problem. I see it as an opportunity. Sure sometimes it takes time and can be frustrating if you play that one damage class that half the server plays, but if you're clever, play a class that is in demand and keep yourself busy while LFG (instead of doing nothing and spamming chat) then you'll find a group before you know it, every time.
    Also you are allowed to join a guild and that generally speeds up the process considerably. But if you don't like guilds (like me) just play a class that is in demand like tank or healer and finding groups will be a piece of cake.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    A LFG Flagging system and browser will also work.  The problem is the cross realm automated grouping tools today have taken away the social aspect of MMOs.  Yes people CAN still socialize but they dont they sit in a city queue up all the time.  No one goes and makes a Pre-made group and adds people to their friends list anymore.  

    A way to list myself as looking for a group and for others to search for me, plus a way for groups to advertise their group in the same tool so I can look for them would resolve most of the issues.  Giving more XP for guild groups will also help.  Also making content more flat and not base on level so much would help, or dont take XP away from groups with a higher level player in them just sync the player down.  
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,528
    Scambug said:
    I doubt acronyms will be flying around in a game that is new to everyone.
    Also if you're shy/introverted and don't like typing in general, just play a class that's in demand and wait for people to LFM. Then all you need to do is "/w Invite please".
    I don't really understand why people see finding groups as a problem. I see it as an opportunity. Sure sometimes it takes time and can be frustrating if you play that one damage class that half the server plays, but if you're clever, play a class that is in demand and keep yourself busy while LFG (instead of doing nothing and spamming chat) then you'll find a group before you know it, every time.
    Also you are allowed to join a guild and that generally speeds up the process considerably. But if you don't like guilds (like me) just play a class that is in demand like tank or healer and finding groups will be a piece of cake.

    I often find guilds could work against you at times.

    - Expecting a guild to have 4 more like minded players at your level can be hard.

    - What do you do if you ask in guild and 4 dps would like to go and you need a tank and healer....I find it best to fill groups alone.




  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Lol, haven't we got tons of pages talking about this in the other thread? 

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459745/no-group-finder/p1


    Making loads of threads complaining about the same thing is not going to change the devs stance on it. If you really cared you would join the Pantheon forums and make your case. 

    Mods should close this thread. 




  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Scambug said:
    I doubt acronyms will be flying around in a game that is new to everyone.
    Also if you're shy/introverted and don't like typing in general, just play a class that's in demand and wait for people to LFM. Then all you need to do is "/w Invite please".
    I don't really understand why people see finding groups as a problem. I see it as an opportunity. Sure sometimes it takes time and can be frustrating if you play that one damage class that half the server plays, but if you're clever, play a class that is in demand and keep yourself busy while LFG (instead of doing nothing and spamming chat) then you'll find a group before you know it, every time.
    Also you are allowed to join a guild and that generally speeds up the process considerably. But if you don't like guilds (like me) just play a class that is in demand like tank or healer and finding groups will be a piece of cake.

    I often find guilds could work against you at times.

    - Expecting a guild to have 4 more like minded players at your level can be hard.

    - What do you do if you ask in guild and 4 dps would like to go and you need a tank and healer....I find it best to fill groups alone.




    What you are talking about is today's guilds.  That is because people level in a matter of days so who needs anyone anymore.  Add to that guilds ever since WOTLK have become nothing but chat channels because all the good guilds and good guild leaders stop leading because of tools like LFD.  For example I ran a guild back in TBC and we always had a way to help a person with a Dungeon even if that meant someone had to take a higher level than the dungeon.   Now to fix that you can make all the dungeon levels the max level and give max XP out of them.  Problem solved.


    Because of LFD tools you cannot base the way guilds act today on what they would do in a game without an LFD tool.  You can also add in extra XP for Guilds
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Deleted,

    I think there is a way to make a game without a automated LFD tool.  There are also ways of helping guilds out and pushing Pre-made groups.  The problem is we left any effort to do so behind in the name of convenience and convenience as hurt MMORPGs like no tomorrow.  It's time we got the Social aspect of MMOs back and leave LFD behind.  That does not mean do not fix the problems of the past it just means stop fixing everything with a sledgehammer.   
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    ...
    .
    Problem is all the power is in the developers hands.

    Sounds like the opening statement of a socialist manifesto, lol

    Perhaps you should start the "Gamer's Popular Revolutionary Front" or something similar...
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,503
    I don't see these examples as being much of a problem, I would normally have joined a guild so would be able to ask for help deciphering the shorthand. (there's an old term many won't recognize)

    What is much more intimidating in more recent MMORPGs, especially if you don't join at launch is something along the lines of "LFM, speed run, must know content, GS 850+, noobs will be kicked"

    Using the social pane doesn't overcome this as I don't feel comfortable forming a group for content I don't know well myself, and in more modern dance with the stars MMOs I rarely know the content, even if I watch a video.




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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    In a group orientated mmo finding other players is an age old problem.


    Player mindset never changes.  The popular method seems to be using general chat.  Yes, spamming chat for hours.  This method sucks, yet its widely used.

    - Players don't always catch rolling chat.

    - Players are intimidated, and fear NOT KNOWING the content, then simply don't volunteer.  

    - Acronyms, the three letter abbreviations that new players don't understand.   



    Here's an example:

    I'm playing LOTRO and I just randomly logged in to get this example of rolling chat.

    BBS++2/3
    Box 1/3
    SS T2 farm 1 boss 5/6 (tank)
    Hammer 1/2 any level welcome
    Can anyone do Minas trith with me
    Boxes 2/3

    What the hell does all this mean ?.........I'm not asking someone to explain LOTRO to me.  I'm saying this is intimidating !

    This makes players play solo, This makes player stop playing. This is EVERY MMO !.......What to do about it?.....I don't know. 
    What is your solution? Well as you say you don't know. I "don't know" either. A group finder that works - whatever that is. All I think you can do - as is planned for Pantheon - is to adopt multiple approaches. Whatever that means! 

    If someone is intimidated by text though - so intimidated that they won't ask - then they probably won't say that they are a "newbie don't know mechanics" or "not done this one before" when they join a group. And will probably get kicked or just left in the lurch when stuff starts. And leave the game or play it solo.

    This will happen if they come together via chat or via a group finder or via a guild. Remember the premise: this is someone who is so intimidated they won't type "what does that mean". 

    If they ask things changed. I certainly responded to someone earlier today - not in LotR but same stuff. In LotR someone will - I think I can guarantee - answer. Players get the idea from general chat that its a friendly game.

    I suppose maybe .......

    Devs anticipate that stuff like this happens.
    So they create a format for asking for groups if people use world chat. And provide a list of the acronyms. 
    And then new players will have a better understanding.

      
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:
    Deleted,

    I think there is a way to make a game without a automated LFD tool.  There are also ways of helping guilds out and pushing Pre-made groups.  The problem is we left any effort to do so behind in the name of convenience and convenience as hurt MMORPGs like no tomorrow.  It's time we got the Social aspect of MMOs back and leave LFD behind.  That does not mean do not fix the problems of the past it just means stop fixing everything with a sledgehammer.   
    No LFD - OK. @Deleted is talking about a world chat solution to finding groups; not an LFD in sight. I was in ESO earlier - same thing happens. (And in ESO and LotR levelling is far from fast so levelling is a red herring). 

    So what would you do? Get rid of world chat and make it that you can only talk to people you can see?   
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    gervaise1 said:
    danwest58 said:
    Deleted,

    I think there is a way to make a game without a automated LFD tool.  There are also ways of helping guilds out and pushing Pre-made groups.  The problem is we left any effort to do so behind in the name of convenience and convenience as hurt MMORPGs like no tomorrow.  It's time we got the Social aspect of MMOs back and leave LFD behind.  That does not mean do not fix the problems of the past it just means stop fixing everything with a sledgehammer.   
    No LFD - OK. @Deleted is talking about a world chat solution to finding groups; not an LFD in sight. I was in ESO earlier - same thing happens. (And in ESO and LotR levelling is far from fast so levelling is a red herring). 

    So what would you do? Get rid of world chat and make it that you can only talk to people you can see?   
    No I wouldnt get rid of world chats however in FFXIV not having a World Chat seems to keep a lot of trashy talk from happening.   I would have a world chat for just LFG stuff, though a LFG tool that is not automated and does not make random groups but more of a party and player browser would be better. 
  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    Honestly... if you see someone saying  "LFM BBD" 

    Just send them a tell and ask what it is. People will tell you.


    I was a Archage newbie and didn't know any of the areas or acronyms. I just spammed ppl with whispers and not one person shot me down. Some people even over explained a little to the point where I had to blow em off!


    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,821
    Well, I have problem finding groups on LoTRo because I'm either playing RP server and everyone is sitting max level on Bree chatting or playing in a non-RP server but everyone on my map is a bot walking in line one before the other.

    I never had a problem with that in any game, really. When I didn't know what something was I asked and someone promptly whispered me the answer.

    Also, If you are looking for a group for a certain content, the standard would be going on the content place and asking for group in the local/area chat, not on global. Wouldn't?
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  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521

    A great feature that would make LFG chat much easier to work with is how Aion had a <Recruit> link you could insert into chat that would show the current group mates, levels and classes.

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    LFG in chat is not the problem...

    The mindset of the people are the problem... When you live your life in 144 characters... that is why you get LFG 2 DPS DBB M+

    The path of least resistance...
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 532
    Make your own group and set your own rules or, better yet, make some friends. All of the problems are a result of people not wanting to socialize in a social game.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,435
    Some people hate LFG tools claiming that it is dumbing down the game for the anti-social casual players, yet they somehow think spamming chat is totally fine and more social.

    I personally like the way you look for group in GW2, it is designed for any particular group content you are looking for, not just dungeons. LFG in chat can get annoying with everyone spamming so depending on the game i usually disable those chats.




  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,326
    I don't see the example used as a good one.  If you are just starting out in a game and don't know what people are talking about in chat then most likely you will not be doing or seeing any of these things yet.  This is the point of playing a game to learn and have fun doing it.  No one should expect to jump into things and know this stuff right of the bat unless the terms are the same in other games or you have done research before hand.  Most games people have no problem explaining to someone new what things are if you actually let people know you are new.  This seems more like I don't want to talk to people I don't know instead of a learning curve thing. 

    As far as grouping goes I am all for LFG tools, but not so much that they put you into a group automatically and then transport you to a group.  I like to be able to list that I am looking for a group or search groups looking for people themselves.  Where you actually have to talk to the other people before you join the group to ensure you are looking to do the same thing or you need to learn the fights ect....  But I also don't watch chat for this either, I have a tendency to start blocking people that spam the same thing over and over because no one wants to group with them.
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