Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

No group finder

1246711

Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited January 2017
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:




     
    I am going to jump in here.   Soloer's DO NOT BELONG PLAYING AN MMORPG.  If you are not willing to Make friends then go play a console game.  I hate to say it but you are basing your Bias on a very small portion of the MMO population.   

    First you are basing your stupid point of view on HIGH END RAIDING GUILDS that only give a fuck about progressing.  You stop helping them YES they forget about you.   That is about what less than 1% of the enter MMO Community.  And yes if you join a large guild that is 300 people online the guild as Cliques and yes you might not make friends.  Again less than 1% of the mmo community.  

    Maybe you should have joined a smaller to medium size guild.  YES you can make friends there that less a life time.  You know how I know, I ran several Smaller to Medium size guilds that also RAIDED.  I have a few Dozen friends that a few times a year say hello even though they do not play any MMOs anymore.  They maybe are not as close of a friend as they were when we played 20 hours a week, BUT we still say hello and see how each other is doing and how are the kids and all.  Guess what, THAT IS WHAT AN MMO IS.  You based your stupid point of view off what, less than 1% of all guilds?   

    O and to add to things.  A friend of mine who we been friends since 1998 and we have not playing an MMO together since the start of Cata is now coming back to MMOs to play FFXIV with me.  Another friend of mine who we talk all the time but have not played an MMO in 2 years together is now playing FFXIV with me.  I still talk to at least 8 or 9 friends also every few days all of which I met before LFD was put in and we still are FRIENDS.  Yet if they ended up coming back to play MMOs and played FFXIV they would end up having someone to run content with, they would just need to give me a few hours or day heads up because I have kids that are young and I cannot just drop everything to play an MMO.  Yet my friends who are playing give me 4 to 6 hours heads up or say like my friend Tags says hey tomorrow 9 or 10 AM lets run a Dungeon.  You know what I will be there.  

    That's TRUE friendship not the stupid point of view that you created based on such a small part of the MMO Player base.  If you REALLY wanted to make friends come on over to FFXIV and I would run with you.  Hell the Husband Wife team my wife and I met just 2 months ago have become friends as well and now together we built a raid team.  All based on Friendship, not hardcore you must be on 30 hours a week

    Sounds nice. I might take you up on that offer, I have considered playing FFXIV for quite a while.

     Apart from that Im not sure you need to get up in the red field about anything I say. I believe you, friends come in many different ways, ofcourse its possible to make deeper connections with people in raiding guilds aswell.

     Im merely stating a point of wiew that people who end up choosing a more solominded path, are often people who are done feeling like a tool for someone elses pleasure. Otherwise they do want to make friends, just I guess not so much with caplocks people who react strongly to things, when they encounter things they dont like reading.

     But thats just some soloers, not all.
    I just dont like when people take a narrow minded approach.  Often times people who cannot play an MMO without a LFD/LFR tool are very narrow minded.  I also messaged you privately about my FFXIV server and FC.  I also have a raid/Group of friends that run together.  We just started grouping together in the last 2 months.  Funny that we all ended up in the same guild with the same view on games.  The problem we have is people get busy but at least we make a concerted effort to do things together,  The one night we did Tmaps and it was enjoyable as all hell.  

    I have a strong opinion because I have made many friends prior to LFD many I still hear from a few times a year.  Problem is the LFD tools today kill a lot of social interaction because you get 95% or greater of the players today telling you to just queue and stop asking for a group.  That is a piss poor attitude for an MMO player to have.  You should want to play with people and make every effort to make a premade before queuing.  Yea there are times you just queue however you should try to make a premade as much as possible.  

    If I remember what I have been told correctly, FFXIV does have a LFD finder right?

     Its my prefered tool you see, I love that design in a game, makes it possible for me to do instances when Id like to.

     And on another note. I have made more lasting friends since LFD and LFR finders were introduced, because its real easy. Just walk up to any person in a city and say hello, if you are in the mood for it. Maybe they have a nice mount, maybe they have nice looking gear, maybe their character looks nice, maybe its a holiday time a year and you can wish them merry Christmas or if you are the humorous kind, just tell them happy birthday.
     Its really easy. It is for me anyway, because Im one of those people who dont require game designs to make me social.

     But when it comes to when Id like to do dungeons, which I prefere to do when I want and have time to do them independant on who and how many others are online, then LFD is my go to tool. And people I meet in dungeons are great fun. So why not? :)
    Post edited by TENTING on
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Lokero said:
    Kefo said:
    I'll lay out the secret to success to finding a group in a game like Pantheon.


    1) Don't be a dick
    2) Be good at the class you are playing or at least know the basics (I'm looking at you warriors who didn't like taunting)
    3) (optional) Help out anyone on your downtime/non grouping time because you never know who will be the leader of a group/guild you might want to join.
    Actually, I would argue that the number one secret to success is to not try to "find" groups but to be the coordinator who creates them.  That's always the fastest way to get a group together.  There's always many more people looking for a group than are willing to take that first step and start one.

    This is also true but you ever start a group or join one and you/the leader starts making questionable choices in group members?

    "Hey why did you invite that ranger?"
    "We need a healer and they are the only class with a heal spell looking right now"
    /disband
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.
    One would think this is a no brainer but apparently not....
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
    What is this game that you speak of that has a mega-server and/or dungeon finder (auto group matching) with the great community? Please do tell...
    --------------------------------------------
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,466
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
    What is this game that you speak of that has a mega-server and/or dungeon finder (auto group matching) with the great community? Please do tell...

    If he is talking about ESO then he must be playing it in an alternative universe lol. 

    That game is the king of antisocial mmo's. 




  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.
    In the example I gave there would be interaction. you would be notified about people looking for specific activities and then contact them and "interact".

    It's not about whether or not there is a tool, it's about how that tool works.

    I've grouped with people I've met "on the field" and there was absolutely no interaction. I supposed the removal of downtime is part of that.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,547
    This will definitely be a niche game....

    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:




     

    I just dont like when people take a narrow minded approach.  Often times people who cannot play an MMO without a LFD/LFR tool are very narrow minded.  I also messaged you privately about my FFXIV server and FC.  I also have a raid/Group of friends that run together.  We just started grouping together in the last 2 months.  Funny that we all ended up in the same guild with the same view on games.  The problem we have is people get busy but at least we make a concerted effort to do things together,  The one night we did Tmaps and it was enjoyable as all hell.  

    I have a strong opinion because I have made many friends prior to LFD many I still hear from a few times a year.  Problem is the LFD tools today kill a lot of social interaction because you get 95% or greater of the players today telling you to just queue and stop asking for a group.  That is a piss poor attitude for an MMO player to have.  You should want to play with people and make every effort to make a premade before queuing.  Yea there are times you just queue however you should try to make a premade as much as possible.  

    If I remember what I have been told correctly, FFXIV does have a LFD finder right?

     Its my prefered tool you see, I love that design in a game, makes it possible for me to do instances when Id like to.

     And on another note. I have made more lasting friends since LFD and LFR finders were introduced, because its real easy. Just walk up to any person in a city and say hello, if you are in the mood for it. Maybe they have a nice mount, maybe they have nice looking gear, maybe their character looks nice, maybe its a holiday time a year and you can wish them merry Christmas or if you are the humorous kind, just tell them happy birthday.
     Its really easy. It is for me anyway, because Im one of those people who dont require game designs to make me social.

     But when it comes to when Id like to do dungeons, which I prefere to do when I want and have time to do them independant on who and how many others are online, then LFD is my go to tool. And people I meet in dungeons are great fun. So why not? 
    Honestly FFXIV is the ONLY game I found with a Cross Realm Grouping tool where people are somewhat Social.  WOW is just toxic and I end up hating the game way more than I care to play.   FFXIV if you act like a jack ass they will ban your account.  Also the end game bosses require some level of coordination so communication is needed and if you act the fool you just waste your time.  

    People are also far more mature in FFXIV and yes there are ass holes however the overall community is much better.   

    I do understand your point of view with doing a dungeon when you want to.  The Problem is that MMOs were built a the social aspect and forcing players to put the effort into helping one another even when you want to do something yourself.  Going and doing things when you want to has created 2 problems.  First today you need to do X amount of dungeons a week to cap on stones so you can progress in your gear; basically the game is a treadmill today.  Second its created a lot of toxic ME ME players.  Instead of saying hey let me help that new tank who cannot hold agro for his life (I had a tank in my last dungeon who couldnt hold agro for his life) they say F this and act like an ass hole and cause drama in the group.  This is good for no one.  In my last dungeon I had a tank that my wife as a healer and me as a Black Mage were pulling aggro off him.  Hell I main tanked the last boss and I didnt attack the boss until he was at 95%.  I ended up trying my best to help out the tank since he was trying to go PLD and my main is PLD.  He just wouldnt Flash 3 times before doing his rotation he also would just use 1 attack instead of building his combo rotation.  

    Even though I had a crappy tank I made every effort to help the guy out.  I even suggested he watch some videos on tanking before his next dungeon run and told him he could look me up anytime.  Now that is because the community in FFXIV is a hell of a lot better than WOW.  One off the core reasons is FFXIV players come from FFXIV 1.0 and FFXI where no LFD tools were built.  These players already formed communities and are a lot more respectable than most other MMOs.  You also dont see Free companies form every day and players jumping to this new Free Company like you do in WOW.  Players end up more dedicated to their free company than other games.  

    Really they could take the data center with the different servers can combine them into 1 server and remove the DF tool and groups would use the Party finder tool to find groups.  The game is more social than other MMOs because of the community.  

     
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Tokken said:
    This will definitely be a niche game....
    Yes it will and That will be good.  Again I am not going to play the game because I dont like the whole group all the time setup.  I would rather a mixture between UO, SWG and WOW vanilla/TBC.  Time for Solo content and a large place for Group content.  
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,429
    Gdemami said:
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.
    One would think this is a no brainer but apparently not....
    You're right, it's definitely not a no brainer at all.

    One part of the mystery of dungeons is you don't run them all the time and enter there like they were shopping malls ready to welcome you and your mates and make sure you're not overwhelmed by conditions inside. There should always be a chance someone gets killed, or you fail for what you were trying to do. Also, a virtual fantasy world has rules of its own. In many of them teleporting is something very few are able to do, and even for them it's not something they can do constantly.

    There are already these action games like WoW or CoD where you wait in a lobby (or a city, if you like) and queue for some action, and that's fun sometimes when you don't have much time. But there's a lack of games that work like a fantasy world simulator, where you can be a known blacksmith or famous treasure hunter, and in these kind of games group finder tools just won't work.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    deniter said:
    Gdemami said:



    dungeons is you don't run them all the time and enter there like they were shopping malls 
    This is why we have the LFD tool today because Dungeons have become nothing more than a Treadmill.  DO X amount of dungeon a week or do X amount of dungeon Dailies a week.  This has killed what Dungeons are in the Fantasy realm.  A Dungeon is something that should be done but not like a Mall or treadmill.  It should be something you plan to do with your friends because its a pain in the ass to do it all because the chance you will die or it needs team work and communication to clear.  

    The problem is today's Dungeons are a waste.  I understand that people want to do them the problem is it shouldnt be a rid in an amusement park you just jump right back on after you get off.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited January 2017
    @Torval and @Sovrath , you're right you can meet friendly people and have meaningful social interaction when you get placed into auto matched groups. That's the exception though, not the norm.

    It's the opposite when you must form the groups up manually. You generally have people who are more invested in the group, since putting a group together takes a slight amount of effort (rather than clicking a button to queue up for auto group). Obviously, you can still get a bad group member this way, but you remember their name and you simply don't invite them to the group next time.
    --------------------------------------------
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    edited January 2017
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.
    What interaction do you keep bringing up that is missing in games that help match groups?

    You group up, put friendly and/or good players on your friends list, and then disband. When you group up again you send them a message and ask if they want to form up with you. Then if you're missing you all go looking for bodies to fill the slots.

    Disposable is how you treat people. Don't treat them that way and they won't be. Someone isn't disposable because arbitrary algorithms keep your characters together. Someone is disposable because you don't value them.
    No, they're disposable because the system allows you to circumvent any real interaction. You're doing an excellent job of explaining it away though, while trying to put it back on me.


  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great peopleand put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.

    Every fiber of my thoughts respects your person and the way you think. But when I read this, I get a sensation of sadness, because:

     If social interaction is the two sentences between people, when gathering a group manually, is considered fulfilled by doing this :

    Player 1 : LF people for X dungeon

    Player 2 : Inv

    First player does not respond, just right clicks and invites the person, so he can spam his message again and be ready to invite next one.

     If this is what is considered meaningfull interaction, then Im heartbroken to see these people ask for so little to believe this will make up for their social interactions in a game.

     I mean tactics can be discussed in any group, LFD random or /general random, so it boils down to those two sentences in the example?

     
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    WellzyC said:
    Torval said: "The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out."
    ------

    This straight up never happens on megaservers. You have your circle you brought with you and that's it. 
    I will attest to the fact that it t does happen. As @Torval says you have to work at it; communicate; be sociable. Isn't this what is - supposedly - going to happen on non-megaservers.

    Whatever the size of server at the end of the day it comes down to people communicating. Whether its a 1k server or 3k or 10k or 50k. The size of the server makes no difference to this process. 

    Its just as wrong to suggest that small servers hinder guilds forming since they will have to be merged - frequently. Vast oversimplification.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    edited January 2017
    TENTING said:


    Every fiber of my thoughts respects your person and the way you think. But when I read this, I get a sensation of sadness, because:

     If social interaction is the two sentences between people is considered fulfilled by doing this :

    Player 1 : LF people for X dungeon

    Player 2 : Inv

    First player does not respond, just right clicks and invites the person, so he can spam his message again and be ready to invite next one.

     If this is what is considered meaningfull interaction, then Im heartbroken to see these people ask for so little to believe this will make up for their social interactions in a game.

     I mean tactics can be discussed in any group, LFD random or /general random, so it boils down to those two sentences in the example?

     
    Yes, even that is interaction, but that brevity would be atypical. The reality is, every time you remove the need to actually interact and discuss something manually, the more people become an abstraction. It's that line of thinking that leads to full automation and games where players might as well be NPCs, and where kindness or rudeness are irrelevant.


  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited January 2017
    TENTING said:
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great peopleand put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.

    Every fiber of my thoughts respects your person and the way you think. But when I read this, I get a sensation of sadness, because:

     If social interaction is the two sentences between people, when gathering a group manually, is considered fulfilled by doing this :

    Player 1 : LF people for X dungeon

    Player 2 : Inv

    First player does not respond, just right clicks and invites the person, so he can spam his message again and be ready to invite next one.

     If this is what is considered meaningfull interaction, then Im heartbroken to see these people ask for so little to believe this will make up for their social interactions in a game.

     I mean tactics can be discussed in any group, LFD random or /general random, so it boils down to those two sentences in the example?

     
    Even in the overly simplified case where it is only 2 sentences like you described, it is still more meaningful than none. At least you got a conversation started. In an auto-matched group, you can easily go the whole time w/o saying a single word.
    --------------------------------------------
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    TENTING said:
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great peopleand put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.

    Every fiber of my thoughts respects your person and the way you think. But when I read this, I get a sensation of sadness, because:

     If social interaction is the two sentences between people, when gathering a group manually, is considered fulfilled by doing this :

    Player 1 : LF people for X dungeon

    Player 2 : Inv

    First player does not respond, just right clicks and invites the person, so he can spam his message again and be ready to invite next one.

     If this is what is considered meaningfull interaction, then Im heartbroken to see these people ask for so little to believe this will make up for their social interactions in a game.

     I mean tactics can be discussed in any group, LFD random or /general random, so it boils down to those two sentences in the example?

     
    Even in the overly simplified case where it is only 2 sentences like you described, it is still more meaningful than none. At least you got a conversation started. In an auto-matched group, you can easily go the whole time w/o saying a single word.

    I want to hug you and tell you everything is going to be alright. That MMORPGs are full of people waiting out there just to talk to you.

     They stand beside you in any city, they fly past you in any area, they fight beside you at a WB, they are right there next to you.

     And in groups made in LFDs, they are right there, a lot of them ready to tell you hello when you greet them. 
     Ready to accept a friendrequest, if you ask them.

     Ofcourse not everyone will be interested, but even if we removed LFD and LFR, there would still be the very same people not interested.
     
     I fear its not the tools that makes the people do one thing or the other. People just do people things. But most of them will greet you, if you ride up to them and say hello.
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 605
    edited January 2017
    GROUP FINDERS AND SOLO CONTENT ARE THE SINGLE BIGGEST REASONS WHY MMOS BECAME TERRIBLE!!!

    The most attractive feature of any true MMO is human interaction, communication and experience. If you remove that then the games become just as dull as a bad single player game.

    Old school MMO players have a hard time enjoying modern games because modern MMOs do everything possible to get rid of player interdependence, they allow players to go from A to Z without ever speaking to anyone else. That's the worste possible design for an MMO, a clear sign that the devs have no idea what they're doing.

    It's not about sandbox or themepark, it's about games promoting human interaction.
    It's the experience of meeting new people and sharing adventures with them that players loved so much in older games, not that the games themselves were better entertainment. Without the human experience those older games were total garbage compared to today.

    It's not great questing or great combat or great graphics that makes an MMO good, it's the amount and the quality of human interactions that happen within it. That's what makes great memories and that's what is missing so cruelly in modern MMOs.

    Finding groups is always the first step towards meeting people and sharing experiences with them, if you automate the process you remove the need for people to start communicating and without communication or human bonding there will never be a memorable experience in any MMO.



  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited January 2017
    TENTING said:
    TENTING said:
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great peopleand put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.

    Every fiber of my thoughts respects your person and the way you think. But when I read this, I get a sensation of sadness, because:

     If social interaction is the two sentences between people, when gathering a group manually, is considered fulfilled by doing this :

    Player 1 : LF people for X dungeon

    Player 2 : Inv

    First player does not respond, just right clicks and invites the person, so he can spam his message again and be ready to invite next one.

     If this is what is considered meaningfull interaction, then Im heartbroken to see these people ask for so little to believe this will make up for their social interactions in a game.

     I mean tactics can be discussed in any group, LFD random or /general random, so it boils down to those two sentences in the example?

     
    Even in the overly simplified case where it is only 2 sentences like you described, it is still more meaningful than none. At least you got a conversation started. In an auto-matched group, you can easily go the whole time w/o saying a single word.

    I want to hug you and tell you everything is going to be alright. That MMORPGs are full of people waiting out there just to talk to you.

     They stand beside you in any city, they fly past you in any area, they fight beside you at a WB, they are right there next to you.

     And in groups made in LFDs, they are right there, a lot of them ready to tell you hello when you greet them. 
     Ready to accept a friendrequest, if you ask them.

     Ofcourse not everyone will be interested, but even if we removed LFD and LFR, there would still be the very same people not interested.
     
     I fear its not the tools that makes the people do one thing or the other. People just do people things. But most of them will greet you, if you ride up to them and say hello.
    The mechanics of the game play a huge part in social interaction. I believe more so than the players themselves.

    Personally, I can be social and group all day in EQ1.

    Or I can play The Division and be auto matched to run group content there without saying a word to another player. Not because I'm all of a sudden less friendly when I play The Division. It's because of the game mechanics in place. There is no point in talking to other players in that game. To be honest, I don't even know how to talk to another player in the Division, and I have found no reason in trying to ever learn how.

    P.S. Please don't see this post as an endorsement of The Division by me. The game is boring and awful.
    --------------------------------------------
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.
    What interaction do you keep bringing up that is missing in games that help match groups?

    You group up, put friendly and/or good players on your friends list, and then disband. When you group up again you send them a message and ask if they want to form up with you. Then if you're missing you all go looking for bodies to fill the slots.

    Disposable is how you treat people. Don't treat them that way and they won't be. Someone isn't disposable because arbitrary algorithms keep your characters together. Someone is disposable because you don't value them.
    No, they're disposable because the system allows you to circumvent any real interaction. You're doing an excellent job of explaining it away though, while trying to put it back on me.
    Help me understand. Like I asked before, what interaction are you referring to? I have plenty of interaction grouping so I don't know exactly what you're referring to?

    And once again, even if a system allowed you to dispose of people doesn't mean you have to. And like I said in the above post, if you have 10 people dedicated in your guild you don't need anyone else to run the content.
    It's two things. One, it humanizes people when you actually have to interact with them, making for a potentially better experience. People should be people, but whether you see it that way or not, that is the way things currently work in many mmos.

    The second thing I believe is important, is letting players find ways to do things for themselves. Just doing away with so many of the gamey systems that do things for you and letting players succeed independently is an important aspect of MMOs that has been done away with.


Sign In or Register to comment.