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Can the newer generation handle a slow dungeon crawler ?

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,006
edited January 2017 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Yes, the Old fashion dungeon crawler.

Remember back in time where dungeons took a 5 or 6 man group and worked together.  And dungeons took anyplace from one to three hours ?


Remember when life was hard in everything you tried to get accomplished even in the open world ? 


Well, times had changed.  People have different priority's......It's a time of smart phones and mobile devises where you can be out and about with your friends and still have the internet.  Facebook and social media are the new norm.

But my question is, what does our younger generation do when their home?.....I know we have popular RPGs like The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Farcry,  and for the hard core we have Dark Souls.  Their time consuming, they seem popular?.......How about mmos?

Are they made easy because the younger generation can't handle hard ?



I'm asking for a poll vote.  However, I'm not sure of it's accuracy because everyone is under the assumption that " it's the other guy ".  


Here's an example:

Joe,
I like my mmo's to be more challenging, but based on the how games are made, it seems like everyone else likes easy and fast.  I wish their were harder mmos for me.  Ah well, I guess I'm alone.


......It's always the other guy, yet I have yet to meet that other guy asking for easy ! 


   
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Comments

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,929
    Difficult and slow are not the same, Dark Souls is a perfect example of this. Difficult? Yes please, slow? No thanks.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,129
    Its not about age and I wish people would always stop talking about "the kids". Devs catered dungeons for people that have no desire to socialize or work together and to avoid the potential for dungeon drama in PUG they made them a lot shorter.

    The newer generation are most likely playing survival sandboxes instead of mmorpg.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • StryckerStrycker Member UncommonPosts: 110
    So, I think Vanilla WOW is a good example here (specifically because of Nostalrius and the popularity associated with it). I hit 60 there and was faced with many long dungeon crawls, befitting of your 1-3 hour requisite, and here's the thing; The actual dungeons were fine, finding a group was not. Spending 1-3 hours in a dungeon is fine by me, but spending 1-2 hours prior to the dungeon trying to find a group was not. I quit shortly after.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2017
    I imagine with the advent of so many other avenues of entertainment and MMOs that you can get from the net today, that the slow dungeon crawl was always unpopular and the only reason most people dealt with it was because they had no other options whatsoever.  The moment new options presented themselves (not just MMOs but the myriad of ways one can now waste time on the internet, be it youtube, wikipedia, facebook, F2P, MOBAs, survivals, buying games on steam, etc), those people were GONE.

    The amount of people actually willing to put up with things like wasting 20+ minutes looking for a group before you can even play the friggin' game when there are now other options are rather slim.

    I get more team work thrills playing Overwatch or Team Fortress or MOBAs anyways, without the 20+ minute grouping time and lousy time-wasting rat pellet levelling grind.
  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 505
    I love slow dungeon crawls... I loved EQ - camping named mobs, WoW dungeons in vanilla -1-3 hour journeys...

    I love having to use CC, camp breaks, being a skilled puller where you had spawn times down cold.....

    Bring it all back and we will party like it's 1999...
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    I never found the PvE leveling in old mmos to be hard. If I want hard I'll PvP.

    image
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,449
    I do a couple of activities that take a few hours and there are very few millenials in these activities...When I ask them why they dont do them, they tell me it takes too much of their time...I imagine the same applies to gaming......Once instant gratification entered MMOs it only got worse as instant was no longer fast enough.
  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451
    edited January 2017
    Personally I would love a 3hr long dungeon. It is what I prefer. Give me something large, something non-linear, something that takes real time to complete.

    But from my experiance in mmos the last 4 yrs after 30mins-1hr people start to get antsy if they are doing the same activity. People who are newer to the genre when I tell them stories of the good old days playing FFXI and the 3hr long camps, Sky/Sea sessions, the 3hrish Dynamis runs. They are shocked I could get 20-35 ppl to show up every day for them.

    People just got accustom to small bitsize peices of content. I joke with my officers in the games I play now. "If this was FFXI I would have to kick 60% of my guild for being too casual".
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,129
    Nyctelios said:
    DMKano said:
    A much better question would be - can they handle it for any more than 2-6 weeks before moving on?

    The answer is NO.

    3 hours for a dungeons - you could watch a netflix movie, play a couple of rounds of Overwatch, and still have time for Facebook/Twitter/Instagram etc....

    Being glued to a single game for 3 hours, very few people have that type of patience to do this for a week, let alone for months.

    That ship has sailed, might want to see how younger generation spends their free time today
    That's the funny thing, tho: Everyone I asked who said that also usually spend the entire day playing games such as mobas where a single match requires less time than playing a mmorpg with "endless" content and time requirements.

    So instead of playing a mmorpg for, lets say, 4 hours, they spend the entire sunday playing 40-or-so minutes of LoL or Dota matches.

    I'm pretty sure has nothing to do with time consumption but with instant reward and the amount of time put on it to get it.

    So I don't think they are speaking the truth, I think they are full of shit, actually - and making excuses for they lame ass behavior.
    They just enjoy competitive gameplay more than they enjoy fighting monsters handled by poor AI. Beating other players in tight PvP matches is far more rewarding than typical mmorpg dungeons.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Problem is reward vs invested time.  Today they have leveling down to a mathematical equation on a website.  If you long dungeon has enough reward for the time invested then yes they will do it.  If the reward is just socialization and your feeling of a being a good puller....no.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,460
    Horusra said:
    Problem is reward vs invested time.  Today they have leveling down to a mathematical equation on a website.  If you long dungeon has enough reward for the time invested then yes they will do it.  If the reward is just socialization and your feeling of a being a good puller....no.
    Succinctly put and I agree.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,845
    To me, a requirement to spend multiple hours at a time to play a game means I'm not going to play that game.  A game where winning is synonymous with showing up and hanging around for a few hours is stupid, not hard.  Conversely, you can have hard content in five minute chunks.
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 493
    Age is irrelevant, and you bet your ass there is a market for this type of game. The issue is, it won't be very big and that is how MMOs started really, a small niche market. Indie devs really are the only hope for a game like this. Big companies would never invest money in game like this, but a smaller studio, a more leaner studio could survive with a much smaller player base.  I'm glad the MMO market is kind of imploding because hopefully the genre and to return to it's roots with smaller studios making niche games that actually have depth and some challenge for smaller audiences. 

    With Unity or even Amazon's new dev tools it is going to be easier and easier for small studios to make MMOs, I think the future looks bright, just don't expect an AAA MMO ever again, at least for several years. 
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    I think this comes down on the lines of people wanting grouping like old EQ1 where you stood around in one area for hours like social club.
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    If theres an app to auto play it for them then I would change my answer.

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    DMKano said:

    3 hours for a dungeons - you could watch a netflix movie, play a couple of rounds of Overwatch, and still have time for Facebook/Twitter/Instagram etc....

    Being glued to a single game for 3 hours, very few people have that type of patience to do this for a week, let alone for months.

    A Dungeon never took 3 hours, not even in EQ.
    A Raid yes, but that's a 1-2 weekly run.

    Maybe you should update your data, but people who plays Overwatch or any other MOBA don't play 1 round, they play for many hours.
    They have time to watch Netflix, check Facebook and go out with their friends or GF.
    Young people don't need much sleep, 5 hours it's more than enough.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    I don't see why they wouldn't it's pretty much the same thing just a lot more health to sponge through.

    That was my main reason for stopping wow. I enjoyed it at first, then I began getting bored mid dungeon to falling asleep. Taking couple of minutes to down simple mobs in a dungeon is NOT hard, it's just time wasting.

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,129
    Nyctelios said:
    Shaigh said:
    Nyctelios said:
    DMKano said:
    A much better question would be - can they handle it for any more than 2-6 weeks before moving on?

    The answer is NO.

    3 hours for a dungeons - you could watch a netflix movie, play a couple of rounds of Overwatch, and still have time for Facebook/Twitter/Instagram etc....

    Being glued to a single game for 3 hours, very few people have that type of patience to do this for a week, let alone for months.

    That ship has sailed, might want to see how younger generation spends their free time today
    That's the funny thing, tho: Everyone I asked who said that also usually spend the entire day playing games such as mobas where a single match requires less time than playing a mmorpg with "endless" content and time requirements.

    So instead of playing a mmorpg for, lets say, 4 hours, they spend the entire sunday playing 40-or-so minutes of LoL or Dota matches.

    I'm pretty sure has nothing to do with time consumption but with instant reward and the amount of time put on it to get it.

    So I don't think they are speaking the truth, I think they are full of shit, actually - and making excuses for they lame ass behavior.
    They just enjoy competitive gameplay more than they enjoy fighting monsters handled by poor AI. Beating other players in tight PvP matches is far more rewarding than typical mmorpg dungeons.
    Far more rewarding for you and for them, yes.
    Enter a conversation on mmorpg activities and you will start talking about loot as rewards, dungeon gameplay should be more rewarding than playing solo, crafters should be capable of making the best gear, its very much focused on rewards. If you check your typical moba-style game you notice that players aren't rewarded in the same fashion, in some cases you don't get any rewards at all.

    This weekend I'm playing a bridge tournament, I pay money to enter and I won't get any reward for it. But sure, go ahead, take the higher ground about how I'm childish and get all the rewards while you do dungeons for pixels.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Yes, the Old fashion dungeon crawler.

    Remember back in time where dungeons took a 5 or 6 man group and worked together.  And dungeons took anyplace from one to three hours ?


    Remember when life was hard in everything you tried to get accomplished even in the open world ? 


    Well, times had changed.  People have different priority's......It's a time of smart phones and mobile devises where you can be out and about with your friends and still have the internet.  Facebook and social media are the new norm.

    But my question is, what does our younger generation do when their home?.....I know we have popular RPGs like The Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Farcry,  and for the hard core we have Dark Souls.  Their time consuming, they seem popular?.......How about mmos?

    Are they made easy because the younger generation can't handle hard ?



    I'm asking for a poll vote.  However, I'm not sure of it's accuracy because everyone is under the assumption that " it's the other guy ".  


    Here's an example:

    Joe,
    I like my mmo's to be more challenging, but based on the how games are made, it seems like everyone else likes easy and fast.  I wish their were harder mmos for me.  Ah well, I guess I'm alone.


    ......It's always the other guy, yet I have yet to meet that other guy asking for easy ! 


       

    Some group dungeons in Vanguard took days, literally days.

    Three hours is nothing lol. 




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,902
    If we only had rotary phones wired to the wall we would use rotary phones. But given the choice I'm pretty sure even old-timers would opt for smartphones. Kids wouldn't touch rotary with a 10 foot pole except maybe at a science and technology museum.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,985
    edited January 2017

    ......It's always the other guy, yet I have yet to meet that other guy asking for easy !
       
    Oh, let me fix that for you. Hi delete, I am an MMO player who loves to solo!  I strongly prefer MMOs with instanced dungeons that scale down such that single players can conquer them and aren't forced to group.  (Though, it's nice if dungeons are challenging for solo players while the game's main world is easy unless one aggros too many monsters at once.)  Out in the game's main world I prefer not to PvP, unless PvP is like a duel that both players must agree to and losing does not result in actual death.  Another thing I really want to be easy is shopping, so I'm a big fan of global marketplaces where I can quickly search for what I want.  And travel, damn do I hate hiking across the wilderness for an hour; I'm not a big fan of teleporting either, but a fast travel mode, such as flying, where I can't or won't be disturbed by monsters, is great.  And an AFK 'meditation' pose where monster can't attack my character while I'm in the bathroom is another excellent modern MMO idea! =)
    Post edited by sunandshadow on
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017

    This may as well be talking about Pantheon so I'll approach from that point. If there are enough familiar points of gameplay and the combat/progression is enjoyable I think it will catch far more "millennial players ;)" than one would think. The industry has grown considerably since dungeon crawling was a thing so there is a large pool of players that have not experienced it. What percentage will even try it and how many will find it fun enough to stay is anyone's guess.


    One thing for sure is that we will find out when Pantheon releases.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Suggesting that "newer generation players" lack the ability to play something slow is tantamount to insulting "the newer generation" imo. Maybe you should ask whether the "newer generation" are stupid enough not to recognise the alternatives - not just gaming alternatives either.

    And if they want slow and social I wouldn't be surprised if they went with pen and paper - a lot of cards as well these days too.
  • jimbobfurleyjimbobfurley Member UncommonPosts: 104
    edited January 2017
    This made me laugh --> MMOs and the term "dungeon crawl" ... why don't you all do yourselves a favour, strap on a pair, and load up Wizardry IV.  Then thou shalt find out what a REAL dungeon crawl is.
    Post edited by jimbobfurley on

    image
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,332
    nope
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