Common sense doesn't include an inflation rate. Especially not an inflation rate of 800%. (DMK's number to kitarad's number). And this is being used for actual numbers, not potential numbers. Some people are starting to perform calculations with these numbers in an attempt to show revenue. And that is anticipating 400k or 500k or 1m or 1.2m customers.
I don't have a problem with projected numbers. I have a problem with unsubstantiated, unrealistic projected numbers.
I think you do. My "potential" number calculation it's perfectly reasonable, and it is much closer to reality than the 50k number which is just a wishful thinking from people like you who just can't stand this kind of game and desperately wants it to crash and burn. I said this is a "potential" number so many times I lost count, and "potential" doesn't mean "actual". It's either you don't understand the difference between potential and actual or you just conveniently decided to ignore it.
And talking about common sense, I am not the one inflating the numbers, it's people like you deflating the numbers with no data to back that up who are in the wrong. I provided "historic" numbers that you can actually check yourself with google, there are no numbers that support a 50k subscription base. If 10 Million people went to see Star Wars 1 movie, you expect the same number to see Star Wars 2, you don't project 1 Million viewers just because you hate the saga. Does that make sense to you or it is still gibberish?
And make no mistakes, Pantheon is EQ3, the unofficial successor of one of the biggest MMO IPs, with a combined fan base of well over 50k players.....how can you not understand that's a number that just doesn't make sense. Even now EQ + EQ2 have more than 50k subscribers, but there are also plenty of ex EQ players like me eager to play a modern version of Everquest. And what about new players that never played this kind of games, you talk like no one of the new generation will touch this game with a barge pole, which is also unrealistic.
So don't tell me that you have problem with unsubstantiated, unrealistic projected numbers, when you are backing up a unsubstantiated, unrealistic projected number. The only thing that could sink this game is a launch similar to Vanguard, otherwise this game has the "potential" for 400-500k subscribers, which eventually will settle around an "actual" 200-250k, and that's a more realistic number than your 50k.
Please. If you want to try to pick apart my post, learn to read the post. The numbers I used were other peoples numbers (50k = DMKano, 400k = kitarad). I haven't offered a projected number, but if I did, it would be closer to DMKano than yours or others.
As for a potential of 400-500k subscribers, where is this population now? What are they doing? What games are they playing? Are you counting 'paid accounts' as opposed to people, and are planning for everyone maintaining 6-10 accounts? Please don't suggest that future Pantheon players are currently playing WoW, because no one has really figured out how to 'take' customers away from Blizzard on a sustained basis. If you can say your player base in in Game X and Game X will suffer when Pantheon releases, then I might reconsider. I do not know where Pantheon customers are going to come from; I haven't heard a good explanation for their current habits, and how Pantheon is planning to cause a change in the marketplace. Show me where these people are, and maybe I could be convinced.
The post you complained about was about how the numbers are becoming inflated, without any reason. You're trying to use a nostalgia-based argument, "they liked it before, they'll like it again", where my stance is "they liked it before, but quit and moved on". There is an appeal for nostalgia, I understand that, but it isn't the sole foundation of a successful business. No amount of nostalgia will make carriages, harnesses or buggy whips major sellers in the modern marketplace (all once lucrative sub-industries in both the US and UK). Or are you waiting for zeppelin flight, still?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
My friend and I agree, that, there's not much innovation in this title to help push the genre. That being said, it's more like it's targeting a niche market now. Old-school gamers of nostalgia seem to be the primary target. That's not a bad thing by any stretch, but, unfortunately it's not going to bring in tons of subs. I'd be surprised if the game hits above 250k at its peak. There are some things I'd like to see this game do, but it seems a bit early to know, or likely won't happen anyways.
With all the procedural tech coming around, it's possible to create a whole planet for a game world and have decent procedural content. The devs can then just focus on certain areas they want to customize the content for players. Loading screens really shouldn't be there anymore.. I'm really hating this about Pantheon.
It doesn't sound like you or your friend have read much about Pantheon then. There is a lot of new stuff being introduced beyond those retro or oldschool elements, which are mostly the more group-dependent and social aspects of the game.
SO much of the EQ crowd is nostalgia......Sure we like to talk about what the game was like in 99-00, but most of us know that will never happen again......Also alot of us are just that: talk.......Im not sure where Pantheon will get its target audience from to be honest, which is why I dont think the sub numbers will be very strong....I hope they have a fall back plan for f2p conversion at some point.
Huge? Judging by the last stream...No. Can they survive? maybe.
I had been following the game for a while and when I saw that stream, it clicked for me. Maybe it won't be "huge" but there I feel like there is some pent up demand for this type of gameplay with modern graphics, UI and some quality of life improvements (or not).
I really dont see how an old school MMO will fly well in 2017 (r whenever this will see the light of day)...Sure there is a niche market for it but will it be big enough to pay the bills?
I'd like to discuss this,
- It's been a long time since old school
- Old school mindset is usually thought as old looking game with old mechanics.
- People tend to think younger people don't have the time or the brain power to play this style.
How do you know this style wouldn't start a new rebirth !!!!!!!
Anecdotal evidence. My son and his friends (all around 24 yrs old) are all former MMO players cutting their teeth on DAOC, WOW and some others.
Their current stable of games include LOL, Overwatch and a variety of PS4 games, but no MMORPGs.
I even tried to entice my son by giving him ESO for Christmas for his new PS4, since he really enjoyed playing Skyrim.
He decided to start playing Witcher 3 first.
Young people today seem to have so much more vying for their time then they did years ago, my guess is they really aren't seeking a slower paced, more in depth gaming experience.
I'd say EVE like success is a more likely aspiration for this or most any other solid indie title.
But a run away smash hit, little chance of that occurring IMO, too many factors lined up against it at the moment.
There really is nothing even remotely offering slow paced or deep gaming experience among MMORPGs.
It's not like there were no sports, consoles games, pc titles, or other real life activities 20 years ago. Neither people nor the surrounding environment have changed. If anything, sitting around playing games is more acceptable today than it was back then. It's just that those MMOs that people pour time into no longer exist in modern form because studios went for mass appeal chasing WoW money.
I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
"No matter how bad you argue against Pantheon, you will have no choice but to be part of the mainstream....That's human nature."
I'm not a hater of Pantheon its just a preference I don't care for magic fantasy oriented games with wizards, mages, gnomes, dwarfs, dragons etc. I'm more into sci-fi.
OP needs to understand that not everyone has the same cup of tea.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
the thing is: If pantheon was released years ago, it would have a huge following. Nowdays it has to contest with games that have 10y of content. People will scream its not finished and broken.
Pantheon doesn't need a huge following, it will run along nicely. Seems some are angry because it hasn't disappear from the radar and it's looking more and more likely to like the team will pull it off.
Don't like the game and who it caters to then go play all the other mmo's out there.
As to the Op, making threads like this helps no one and just brings the haters out in troves. Pantheon won't be huge and I doubt it's followers want it to be huge.
"No matter how bad you argue against Pantheon, you will have no choice but to be part of the mainstream....That's human nature."
I'm not a hater of Pantheon its just a preference I don't care for magic fantasy oriented games with wizards, mages, gnomes, dwarfs, dragons etc. I'm more into sci-fi.
OP needs to understand that not everyone has the same cup of tea.
Sure not EVERYONE, that would be silly for anyone to think everyone.
If the game is totally out of your range to play, sure you wouldn't......There are some that are obsessed over the board game Monopoly..... Their not playing Pantheon...Don't blame them
This statement is more for the people with grudges and spite, just to be spiteful.....Again, I don't blame them either that's just another useless emotion people go through......I'll see them in game, and will have fun together
Great idea to argue about what is considered huge or big or whatever... We should all be happy when any MMORPG is released...as the genre is on life support.
I'm a bit surprised at the push back against those that want an older style MMO after 10+ years of no freedom, no risk vs reward linear quest hub themeparks. I suspect there are a number of contrarians that frequent this site.
Then basically you agree with him, because by backing up Kano he's already saying 50k is the likely forecast at this time anyways.
500k though.... Did Everquest even have that many? Remember that people have to actually know about the existance of this game and care enough to look at it before they will actually buy it. How far do you think the game's marketting department will be able to reach? How many people do you think will look at the name, "Pantheon", and decide to spend money to try it out? This isn't an F2P or non-subscription B2P game either (unless that changed?) so getting that many people to open up their wallets for it will be all that much harder.
People will be able to play the trial before purchasing.
EQ topped out around 500k 13 years ago back when most people still didn't have the internet.
I remember seeing graphs that showed various game populations. As I remember it Everquest topped out at around 700k. 450k is certainly verifiable.
700K never happened for EQ1, the got close to 500K
if there was such a huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today:
- P99 wouldn't have around 1200 players at peak, it would be in tens of thousands - There would be a at least half a dozen EQ1 "clones" in the works right now
Neither is happening - you know why?
Because there isn't 450k players who'd play EQ1 type game today - that's why, people grew up, they have full time jobs and families.
EQ1 required vast amounts of time to play - this kind of time commitment is simply unmanageable today for a huge number of players who used to play EQ1 17 years ago.
Priorities change - it's normal.
Yep, cause people back when EQ1 was big didn't have jobs either, mmhmm.
People act like times have changed, that people didn't have jobs then when we all know that's further from the truth. Did EQ require a lot of time? Hell yes it did but it also was one of the few games that gave players that sense of accomplishment, something that is missing from MMO's for the past many years.
I think you're wrong with when you comment on about the whole huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today. Since so many people put so much stock in graphics, if a game released with similar gameplay aspects as EQ with updated graphics, you'd be extremely surprised just how big of a following it would hold.
On a side note, with all due respect Kano, why the hell is every single post of yours, regardless of the topic at hand, always negative? Being negative about everything make you feel good? I can't say I have ever seen someone so negative on game forums(and I read a lot of different forums) than you. Every time I see your name in a thread, I can pretty much guaran damn tee its going to be something negative. Is that your role on these forums?
If you interpret my posts as "negative" that is your doing.
Reality just is, positive and negative are descriptions that people place on events for easy filing within their memory banks. Little boxes with labels.
I can show you that my posts are not negative, that negativity is a label you make and put on them.
Then basically you agree with him, because by backing up Kano he's already saying 50k is the likely forecast at this time anyways.
500k though.... Did Everquest even have that many? Remember that people have to actually know about the existance of this game and care enough to look at it before they will actually buy it. How far do you think the game's marketting department will be able to reach? How many people do you think will look at the name, "Pantheon", and decide to spend money to try it out? This isn't an F2P or non-subscription B2P game either (unless that changed?) so getting that many people to open up their wallets for it will be all that much harder.
People will be able to play the trial before purchasing.
EQ topped out around 500k 13 years ago back when most people still didn't have the internet.
I remember seeing graphs that showed various game populations. As I remember it Everquest topped out at around 700k. 450k is certainly verifiable.
700K never happened for EQ1, the got close to 500K
if there was such a huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today:
- P99 wouldn't have around 1200 players at peak, it would be in tens of thousands - There would be a at least half a dozen EQ1 "clones" in the works right now
Neither is happening - you know why?
Because there isn't 450k players who'd play EQ1 type game today - that's why, people grew up, they have full time jobs and families.
EQ1 required vast amounts of time to play - this kind of time commitment is simply unmanageable today for a huge number of players who used to play EQ1 17 years ago.
Priorities change - it's normal.
Yep, cause people back when EQ1 was big didn't have jobs either, mmhmm.
People act like times have changed, that people didn't have jobs then when we all know that's further from the truth. Did EQ require a lot of time? Hell yes it did but it also was one of the few games that gave players that sense of accomplishment, something that is missing from MMO's for the past many years.
I think you're wrong with when you comment on about the whole huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today. Since so many people put so much stock in graphics, if a game released with similar gameplay aspects as EQ with updated graphics, you'd be extremely surprised just how big of a following it would hold.
On a side note, with all due respect Kano, why the hell is every single post of yours, regardless of the topic at hand, always negative? Being negative about everything make you feel good? I can't say I have ever seen someone so negative on game forums(and I read a lot of different forums) than you. Every time I see your name in a thread, I can pretty much guaran damn tee its going to be something negative. Is that your role on these forums?
If you interpret my posts as "negative" that is your doing.
Reality just is, positive and negative are descriptions that people place on events for easy filing within their memory banks. Little boxes with labels.
I can show you that my posts are not negative, that negativity is a label you make and put on them.
I do, I take most of your post as "negative" in a very mild way.
Now understand, both you and I have totally different views, always have, I can respect that, I really can. In fact, I don't think their is any hatred between us because we both know we have different opinions.
However, you seem to be extremely standoffish with everyone, you would rarely admit agreement with anyone. But blurt out your general opinion in a very general way that strikes me and I'm sure many as cold.
Well, as far as me.......I'm just nasty.....but at least I know it
I hope this game releases in a solid state and its fans enjoy the hell out of it. I don't think it is going to be a huge mainstream gaming draw as it is geared towards one very specific demographic.
People seem to forget that when EQ was in its heyday, there were very few MMO offerings to choose from then there are today. People accepted the good with the bad, as there wasn't much choice. Now Pantheon is coming into a hugely saturated market, with several other games on the horizon looking to mow the same lawn. I wish them luck, but I'll wait and see.
I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
So we've gone from Pantheon being "huge" to just "doing well", now?
Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.
the thing is: If pantheon was released years ago, it would have a huge following. Nowdays it has to contest with games that have 10y of content. People will scream its not finished and broken.
There's truth to that. I seem to remember when Aion launched World of Warcraft players were saying "well, wow has this and wow has that".
A certain type of player will expect that the game "must" have certain features.
But then again the developers know their audience so as long as they stay the course and make a game that captivates that audience they will be able to make a go of it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.
See here's the thing about that,
MMos are designed with short attention spans !!
..........................WHO SAYS THE PLAYERS LIKE IT !!!!.....................
Huge? Judging by the last stream...No. Can they survive? maybe.
I had been following the game for a while and when I saw that stream, it clicked for me. Maybe it won't be "huge" but there I feel like there is some pent up demand for this type of gameplay with modern graphics, UI and some quality of life improvements (or not).
Agree.
I don't get why people just play things on the millions or so. Why does it matter? Do you really think a MMO would be less enjoyable if you had less servers?
Millions, thousands, whatever - as long the population holds the necessary for the game mechanics / events nothing else matters. As long the game pays itself and give the devs money so their kids can go to college who cares?
I completely agree.
for some reason people always equate "the more people that like it the better it is".
This is not to say that means it's "crap" if it has large numbers (though some would say it does). If one million people love something and 5 people think it's crap it's only crap to those 5 people.
However there is a whole world out there of things that are not loved by the multitudes (and I should know I'm a patron of many of those things) and these things still get made, still have an audience and thrive in their own way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
interesting, because a while back you tried to imply there were millions of people interested in this sort of game. (i remember you linking an article and *you* claimed 2+ million people have purchased EQ, when it was pointed out that article included the original game and its first 7 expansions , you went silent) the game is super niche, will be lucky to have 3 low to med pop servers. it might be a great example of what it tries to be, but what its trying to be isnt really desired by many people anymore. why the change of opinion, Dullahan?why have you backed off the Panthaon super success party line?
we have to admit, this isnt the game people want anymore. why are 2D platformers all indie niche, low cost games? the gaming world changes. Pantheon may be great at what it does in the end, but it will probably be at Age of Conan levels of population - at best.
I am a backer - and Pantheon is something I look forward to playing - as EQ1 vanilla is still my favorite PvE MMORPG of all time.
It doesn't mean I have to be unrealistic about it being niche.
It's not unrealistic saying that Pantheon is a niche game. I am the first to admit it, even Virtual Realms admit it candidly, only the OP thinks Pantheon is going to be the next WoW killer. What is unrealistic though is your idea of niche, you are putting yourself on the same level as the OP.
EvE is a niche game and managed to hold on 400k players for many years, outside of MMOs Dark Soul is a niche game yet one of the most popular RPGs. These are the real niche games that actually have a real player base, and Pantheon is on the same level, it has an established player base consisting of current and ex EQ players, old school players looking for a new home and some of those players who enjoyed Vanilla WoW and might like Pantheon as the Group mechanics (Dungeons, Raids) of WoW wasn't so much different from EQ. Pantheon is not on the same level of Darkfall kinda niche, not by a long shot.
You should know the numbers of people who played this kind of games throughout those years since you are a veteran, so how can you think that a "potential" 400-500k players is unrealistic. And I said it again, this is based only on historic data, it doesn't take into consideration the new generation of gamers some of which might actually like this type of game.
So what I am saying is that Pantheon will have 1 Million players? No, that's not what I am saying. What I am saying is the pool of potential players is much larger that what you claim to be and after taking into account a drop of 50- 60% of players off the potential pool, a more realistic number would be 200-250k players. If they launch Pantheon in the same state they launched Vanguard, there is not even a debate, this game will sink faster than the Titanic. However IF Brad and Co. manage to make something truly innovative (not a carbon copy of EQ) the number of players could be even more than 250k.
It's all up to Virtual Realms, the player base is there, how many of those potential players will become actual it's up to them.
Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.
See here's the thing about that,
MMos are designed with short attention spans !!
..........................WHO SAYS THE PLAYERS LIKE IT !!!!.....................
This is another reason Pantheon will be Huge
MMOs are designed to fit the lifestyles of players TODAY - an average player today jumps from one game to the next every 2-6 weeks.
This happens regardless of how "good" the game is for an average player (of course there are exceptions)
Today people have a lot less free time to devote to a single game (due to myriad of online activities that didn't exist 15 years ago, like social media, netflix, steam etc...)
So the devs have changed the formula to fit the lifestyle of majority of the playerbase - which is short session gaming like MOBAs and team FPS games.
While you and I and many veteran players might be ok having to wait 25 minutes for a ship that takes another 20 min ride to bring you to the other continent - the average player has no desire nor time for that.
Totally disagree,
There not fitting the lifestyle, their making their games short and small with 30 days of content, without the player in mind.
Players have a lot less free time ?......Why, because you have a lot less free time?
Waiting times, can be stream lined naturally......Your talking 2003.
Take away the "short attention span games" and will have a gem
Comments
As for a potential of 400-500k subscribers, where is this population now? What are they doing? What games are they playing? Are you counting 'paid accounts' as opposed to people, and are planning for everyone maintaining 6-10 accounts? Please don't suggest that future Pantheon players are currently playing WoW, because no one has really figured out how to 'take' customers away from Blizzard on a sustained basis. If you can say your player base in in Game X and Game X will suffer when Pantheon releases, then I might reconsider. I do not know where Pantheon customers are going to come from; I haven't heard a good explanation for their current habits, and how Pantheon is planning to cause a change in the marketplace. Show me where these people are, and maybe I could be convinced.
The post you complained about was about how the numbers are becoming inflated, without any reason. You're trying to use a nostalgia-based argument, "they liked it before, they'll like it again", where my stance is "they liked it before, but quit and moved on". There is an appeal for nostalgia, I understand that, but it isn't the sole foundation of a successful business. No amount of nostalgia will make carriages, harnesses or buggy whips major sellers in the modern marketplace (all once lucrative sub-industries in both the US and UK). Or are you waiting for zeppelin flight, still?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/pantheon_difference/
It's not like there were no sports, consoles games, pc titles, or other real life activities 20 years ago. Neither people nor the surrounding environment have changed. If anything, sitting around playing games is more acceptable today than it was back then. It's just that those MMOs that people pour time into no longer exist in modern form because studios went for mass appeal chasing WoW money.
I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
"No matter how bad you argue against Pantheon, you will have no choice but to be part of the mainstream....That's human nature."
I'm not a hater of Pantheon its just a preference I don't care for magic fantasy oriented games with wizards, mages, gnomes, dwarfs, dragons etc. I'm more into sci-fi.
OP needs to understand that not everyone has the same cup of tea.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
Yep it could be a good game, but let's reserve judgement until it is playable.
Don't like the game and who it caters to then go play all the other mmo's out there.
As to the Op, making threads like this helps no one and just brings the haters out in troves. Pantheon won't be huge and I doubt it's followers want it to be huge.
If the game is totally out of your range to play, sure you wouldn't......There are some that are obsessed over the board game Monopoly..... Their not playing Pantheon...Don't blame them
This statement is more for the people with grudges and spite, just to be spiteful.....Again, I don't blame them either that's just another useless emotion people go through......I'll see them in game, and will have fun together
Great idea to argue about what is considered huge or big or whatever... We should all be happy when any MMORPG is released...as the genre is on life support.
I'm a bit surprised at the push back against those that want an older style MMO after 10+ years of no freedom, no risk vs reward linear quest hub themeparks. I suspect there are a number of contrarians that frequent this site.
Oh yeah, you are a backer lol.
It's a niche title. And that's ok. Don't get carried away.
I do, I take most of your post as "negative" in a very mild way.
Now understand, both you and I have totally different views, always have, I can respect that, I really can. In fact, I don't think their is any hatred between us because we both know we have different opinions.
However, you seem to be extremely standoffish with everyone, you would rarely admit agreement with anyone. But blurt out your general opinion in a very general way that strikes me and I'm sure many as cold.
Well, as far as me.......I'm just nasty.....but at least I know it
People seem to forget that when EQ was in its heyday, there were very few MMO offerings to choose from then there are today. People accepted the good with the bad, as there wasn't much choice. Now Pantheon is coming into a hugely saturated market, with several other games on the horizon looking to mow the same lawn. I wish them luck, but I'll wait and see.
I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.
A certain type of player will expect that the game "must" have certain features.
But then again the developers know their audience so as long as they stay the course and make a game that captivates that audience they will be able to make a go of it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
See here's the thing about that,
MMos are designed with short attention spans !!
..........................WHO SAYS THE PLAYERS LIKE IT !!!!.....................
This is another reason Pantheon will be Huge
for some reason people always equate "the more people that like it the better it is".
This is not to say that means it's "crap" if it has large numbers (though some would say it does). If one million people love something and 5 people think it's crap it's only crap to those 5 people.
However there is a whole world out there of things that are not loved by the multitudes (and I should know I'm a patron of many of those things) and these things still get made, still have an audience and thrive in their own way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
we have to admit, this isnt the game people want anymore. why are 2D platformers all indie niche, low cost games? the gaming world changes. Pantheon may be great at what it does in the end, but it will probably be at Age of Conan levels of population - at best.
It's not unrealistic saying that Pantheon is a niche game.
I am the first to admit it, even Virtual Realms admit it candidly, only the OP thinks Pantheon is going to be the next WoW killer.
What is unrealistic though is your idea of niche, you are putting yourself on the same level as the OP.
EvE is a niche game and managed to hold on 400k players for many years, outside of MMOs Dark Soul is a niche game yet one of the most popular RPGs.
These are the real niche games that actually have a real player base, and Pantheon is on the same level, it has an established player base consisting of current and ex EQ players, old school players looking for a new home and some of those players who enjoyed Vanilla WoW and might like Pantheon as the Group mechanics (Dungeons, Raids) of WoW wasn't so much different from EQ.
Pantheon is not on the same level of Darkfall kinda niche, not by a long shot.
You should know the numbers of people who played this kind of games throughout those years since you are a veteran, so how can you think that a "potential" 400-500k players is unrealistic.
And I said it again, this is based only on historic data, it doesn't take into consideration the new generation of gamers some of which might actually like this type of game.
So what I am saying is that Pantheon will have 1 Million players?
No, that's not what I am saying.
What I am saying is the pool of potential players is much larger that what you claim to be and after taking into account a drop of 50- 60% of players off the potential pool, a more realistic number would be 200-250k players.
If they launch Pantheon in the same state they launched Vanguard, there is not even a debate, this game will sink faster than the Titanic.
However IF Brad and Co. manage to make something truly innovative (not a carbon copy of EQ) the number of players could be even more than 250k.
It's all up to Virtual Realms, the player base is there, how many of those potential players will become actual it's up to them.
Totally disagree,
There not fitting the lifestyle, their making their games short and small with 30 days of content, without the player in mind.
Players have a lot less free time ?......Why, because you have a lot less free time?
Waiting times, can be stream lined naturally......Your talking 2003.
Take away the "short attention span games" and will have a gem