Once again, I'm correcting your misunderstanding - because you've so far chosen to ignore what I'm saying.
If you finally get it, then we can certainly stop this exchange.
Yeah but what is it that I need to get?
This Topic is about Pantheon (about us), and as you put it, you already understood and accepted our point of view. If you want us to discuss about yourself, your feelings and beliefs, open another thread, as this is not the right place.
It's PROGRESSION - it's not "World of Warcraft". Why is everything about WoW? Are you that stagnant in your line of thinking?
Because WoW is a perfect example of the "progression" you speak of...
Vanilla WoW and TBC are often heralded as the best time in WOW. Gameplay was much slower than it was today. You had to use CC and coordinate within the groups. There was no group finder. the community was much better.
Then WOTLK happened... and the gameplay turned to more of the "progression", and your quoted pull 10 mobs, philosophy. CC vanish... It was, and still is about, GO GO GO GO. It is about, get in, get it done, and don't remember anything about it.
Progression for the sake of progress is not a valid argument.
The best gameplay and balance in any game is still EQ1. Where EQ didn't progress was UI, ( and I am not talking about addons) in the flow of information, and graphics. I have said this all along. If EQ, had just updated the engine and the graphics, and modified the UI to be more informative while remaining clean, it would still compete in the world today.
No, I don't think WoW is the perfect example of the progression I speak of.
I don't even have to think, because I'm the one speaking about it - and I'm not thinking of WoW.
Who is arguing for progression for the sake of progression?
I'm saying progression is a natural part of any MMO - including Pantheon.
We're talking about time versus reward. Pantheon will obviously provide rewards.
I think EQ had an absolutely terrible time versus reward balance - even at release.
Obviously, if you seriously found it perfect - then Pantheon is likely to please you
Once again, I'm correcting your misunderstanding - because you've so far chosen to ignore what I'm saying.
If you finally get it, then we can certainly stop this exchange.
Yeah but what is it that I need to get?
This Topic is about Pantheon (about us), and as you put it, you already understood and accepted our point of view. If you want us to discuss about yourself, your feelings and beliefs, open another thread, as this is not the right place.
Ehm, what?
I have no interest in discussing anything. I have an interest in exchanging and speaking my mind.
The only reason there's a discussion is because you didn't understand my point of view - and I had to make it clearer for you.
I did that not because I want a discussion, but because I prefer being understood.
Also, part of our opinions will inevitably be our feelings and beliefs. How could it not be?
You're not making any sense at all.
Anyway, you just accepted that I feel differently about the game than you do. So, why are you still going on?
Again, you enjoy what you enjoy - and I enjoy what I enjoy.
Ehm, what? I have no interest in discussing anything. I have an interest in exchanging and speaking my mind. The only reason there's a discussion is because you didn't understand my point of view - and I had to make it clearer for you.
Yeah but you didn't answer my question What do I need to get? What I need to understand? Put a subject to the conversation. Maybe you need to be a bit more clear on what you want to discuss, so people can address the issue directly and clear the air, because at this point I am genuinely confused about what you want to discuss.
Ehm, what? I have no interest in discussing anything. I have an interest in exchanging and speaking my mind. The only reason there's a discussion is because you didn't understand my point of view - and I had to make it clearer for you.
Yeah but you didn't answer my question What do I need to get? What I need to understand? Put a subject to the conversation. Maybe you need to be a bit more clear on what you want to discuss, so people can address the issue directly and clear the air, because at this point I am genuinely confused about what you want to discuss.
Just admit you're wrong about everything and accept his superior opinion and all will be forgiven.
Just admit you're wrong about everything and accept his superior opinion and all will be forgiven.
Ehehhh...that's exactly what I am trying to do. I am trying to understand what he is on about so I can accept it.
I spent two posts already asking that, but he still didn't get the hint. I hope he is able to tell me what I am supposed to accept, so we can settle the discussion.
Lol, it seems to me that certain people are mad because it's looking more and more like Brad & team are going to pull this off.
After watching the stream I would imagined some jaws dropped, not because it's looks outstanding but because of the progress since the other stream.
One says he is a backer which I don't believe for one minute given his post history on this game.
The other can't get it through his scull that they don't care what he thinks. The game is not being made for his type of MMO player.
He also thinks he knows us who want this type of MMO better than ourselves.
As for time to play, how the hell does the other one know how much time we have on our hand, delusional at best.
I'll will be playing this for years so will like minded people. If it takes days or weeks to get things done and I enjoy getting them done with like minded people then I'm smiling.
Game looked quite good but combat is boring beyond belief, no impact, very static and lackluster!
Remember it's pre alpha and no where near the end product. Think we can all agree the game looks good especially the characters. Now they are getting there they will have more time to get the combat down, it's never going to look as fast as action combat systems.
Pretty game. But I played a less-pretty version of this 17 years ago. It's still a pile of characters beating on a single mob at a time, with single adds mezzed and waiting for their beatdown to begin. What about packs of 4-8 mobs at a time? I've been bored with the 4-on-1 fight with 1 healer and 1 crowd controller for quite a long while now.
Beyond the pretty graphics, it's more of the same, nothing new or innovative.
Just how we like it
Just how you THINK you like it.
IMO - after several weeks you'll probably be thinking "I've played all this before... why am I doing this again?"
I've played P99 every day for years. I KNOW its what I like
Just admit you're wrong about everything and accept his superior opinion and all will be forgiven.
Ehehhh...that's exactly what I am trying to do. I am trying to understand what he is on about so I can accept it.
I spent two posts already asking that, but he still didn't get the hint. I hope he is able to tell me what I am supposed to accept, so we can settle the discussion.
My interpretation of what he is saying, and doing, here, is that he thinks there are several elements of the game that he likes, but there are some things he would like them to change to suit him. Most specifically combat, and the time it takes to kill mobs.
DKlond, you keep asking what is wrong with you watching a public video, and, in response, coming to a public forum and posting your thoughts about it. The simple response to that statement is - nothing is wrong with it. With that being said, it seems like a better question is, why do so many people here have such a problem with it?
The answer to that question is simple really - you're coming here stating that some of the core elements of a game that is already being made, is making a mistake because it went a different direction then what you personally like. The problem people on these boards, specifically, have with that is, it's not like the tenants that you dislike are really up for discussion to change. This is how the game is being designed, so why come here and bang a drum that you think it's wrong?
I don't know you, and I'm sure you're a nice enough guy, but how can those of us that desperately want this type of game take your negative disposition as anything but inflammatory? My first instinct was telling me you were just sour grapes for no reason and you came here to troll, but the more I read you posts I changed my mind. Now it actually feels more like you are someone who had hoped this game would go in a direction more to your liking, because it actually had elements that sounded interesting to you, but it ended up missing the mark for you in some big ways. I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but that was just what it started to feel like reading through your posts.
At the end of the day, my question to you would be - What did you hope the outcome would be by coming to a post where people are excited about the current stream, and saying the design is going to be mostly a failure? Even if you think that's true, I still don't get what the purpose for coming here with that message would be. The only thing I can think of is that you were hoping the development team would read your post, and possibly change their core tenants. Anything beyond that makes your posts look purposely caustic.
The answer to that question is simple really - you're coming here stating that some of the core elements of a game that is already being made, is making a mistake because it went a different direction then what you personally like. The problem people on these boards, specifically, have with that is, it's not like the tenants that you dislike are really up for discussion to change. This is how the game is being designed, so why come here and bang a drum that you think it's wrong?
Exactly. He insisted telling us that we didn't get or accept his opinion, but I actually got him straight away. What transpired from his post is that he was telling us we were wrong to like this type of game because according to him combat is slow paced and an archaic design that no longer works in today MMOs. What he failed to understand is, why we appreciate and accept that most people dislike this kind of design, we actually love it. But he kept banging on the fact that we didn't get his point of view, truth is we did, but we didn't care because it wasn't relevant to this Pantheon topic, it was becoming a me, me, me conversation. That's why I suggested to make another thread on the subject. And I don't think he is a troll, I just think he didn't realized he was way off topic.
The truth is people don't seem to really like new mmos and their fancy new systems much either, hence the reason they can't float the subscription model or keep a decent playerbase, despite spending hundreds of millions of dollars.
It's just a laughable place to argue from against older mechanics when the game in question managed to keep a larger playerbase for a longer period of time than almost any game that's come out in a decade.
^^^ People might hate this type of design all they like, but that's the only design that guarantees longevity and a steady number of Subscribers. Slow leveling is the secret to keep players subscribed, I acknowledge it is an artificial way to make content last longer, but it's a clever one, since it is impossible to produce enough content to last a year in modern fast paced MMOs.
And slow leveling, and slow paced can be fun, because you are not stressed by the thought of having to reach level cap in a month, it also gives you the chance to appreciate the items you gather during your adventures. In modern games you level so fast that you out-level your gear within a day of playing, killing the joy of obtaining new items.
Pretty game. But I played a less-pretty version of this 17 years ago. It's still a pile of characters beating on a single mob at a time, with single adds mezzed and waiting for their beatdown to begin. What about packs of 4-8 mobs at a time? I've been bored with the 4-on-1 fight with 1 healer and 1 crowd controller for quite a long while now.
Beyond the pretty graphics, it's more of the same, nothing new or innovative.
Just how we like it
Just how you THINK you like it.
IMO - after several weeks you'll probably be thinking "I've played all this before... why am I doing this again?"
I've played P99 every day for years. I KNOW its what I like
And he would have us believe that he donated to this game lol. Just by his comment you quoted we know it's a big fat lie.
It's NOT particularly rewarding to spend minutes standing around a single mob - watching players making a move every 5 seconds - until the goblin predictably drops dead, seeing as how you established the winning tactic a hundred goblins ago - only to be rewarded with a nearly invisible amount of progress on the XP bar.
I like all of that, is that wrong? I don't get why some of you have problem accepting that people have different taste than you have. You are not just trying to give your opinion on the game, which by now is all very clear. Now it looks like you are trying to convince people who like the game that they actually shouldn't, because the slow leveling and downtime don't make sense (to you).
To me it makes perfect sense, not seeing the XP bar moving relaxes me because it take away the pressure of leveling, and while the group is resting I can get a coffee, smoke a cigarette, making myself a sandwich, post on the forums, talking to my family or just shit talk with my group or guild mates. Not worrying about the XP bar makes me actually play the game at my own pace, instead of chasing the XP bar.
I don't need to win to enjoy a MMO (like most of you), I just want to have fun along the journey. Is this such a weird concept to grasp? For me it makes perfect sense. Key word here is "relax" "Socialize" and "Fun", I play MMOs for those reasons. When I feel the need of some intense play sessions, smashing my gamepad on the desk and banging my head on the wall, I play Battlefield, COD or FIFA, which I do quite often, but not when I play MMOs.
If you've been following the thread, this isn't about convincing others. It's about correcting their misunderstanding of our dislike.
Of course it's not wrong that you enjoy that kind of gameplay. As I've said countless times before, the game is great for SOME people.
The point of contention is when people don't understand other points of view.
I don't know why you assume I need to "win" anything. I have no idea what that's about here. How can you win an MMO?
No, I want to feel like my time investment is rewarded - and to me, that's about lots of unique content and tangible progression at a reasonable pace.
You will never see me tell people they're wrong to enjoy what they enjoy. On the other hand, I don't understand why I can't state my opinion about a game on a public forum right after a bunch of new videos have been posted that we're all exposed to.
yes its two completely different play styles, it's not for you but make no mistake, it is for others. i also agree with some of the others that i feel far much more satisfied when i loot an item that is extremely difficult and time consuming to get rather than just get a welfare epic every time i log in or even once every couple days.
i also feel more satisfied when i achieve a progression milestone that takes months to get to rather than hitting it in a couple days like no big deal.
Now in your estimate - if you took every player who played EQ1 from Vanilla to Kunark - what % of those players TODAY after 14-17 years do you think would have the time and patience to play a game that required the same type of time investment?
Because that's the audience that Pantheon is targeting - and I have serious doubts that in 2017/18 or whenever this launches those players will have any more than 2-6 weeks of nostalgia gameplay left in them before they throw in the towel.
So that's what I am asking - how many will stick around for even 3 months, let alone 6months or more.
My answer is many, many more than you think.
Your always seems so full of yourself when making this sort of assumptions, you seem to think you are the only one that knows what people really wants. I like to see you so determined making the same kind of analyses on Archeage an why after just 3 years it has already a foot in the grave, while EQ after 13 years is still going. Maybe you should offer your wisdom to Trion, who knows maybe Archeage might still have a chance.
You accuse people dishing their own estimates, but you do the same with a touch of arrogance, without producing any facts, just suppositions based on your own taste. Old School games might be niche but people that play them are very loyal and stick with them for years, unlike other more recent games we know.
And stop labeling people that like this kind of game "nostalgic" I made a couple of thread just to explain to people like you that it is not nostalgia what make us want to play those games. You might want to head over and read them, you might learn that there are people that actually love the things you hate.
For me the progression pace, community and group-centric nature of EQ is where it's at. I literally cannot find the same experience elsewhere so yes, I am looking forward to a modern version of this model.
I find the argument that a game "takes too much time" is a very slanted view held by only the minority who think they must be on the top and competitive. Because they have to be the best, if being the best requires playing a lot then therefore there's nothing else that can possibly be enjoyed. That really couldn't be a more unfair and illogical assessment.
There is plenty to accomplish in a game like Pantheon - much like EQ - in a reasonable amount of time. You just won't be "competitive" as easily, and that's the crux of your argument. Sorry, most people don't think that way.
I've never been competitive in that way.
The problem with the amount of time things take is very simple.
It doesn't feel like the rewards are worth the investment.
Time is a very limited commodity - and having endless fights that you have to grind through - to get to something that's nearly identical - is not super exciting to all of us.
That's why modern MMOs have reduced TTK - and made content much more distinct. Developers understand that most players want to experience new content - and most players aren't willing to settle for EQ standards.
MMOs were never meant to have EQ-style combat - it was a limitation of networking technology and the new horizon of having hundreds of players in the same areas.
These days, technology has evolved - and they've learned to handle players through clever instancing.
Stubbornly insisting on having slow combat and long TTK is completely unnecessary. You don't have to force single-mob fights that take minutes upon players to have a tactical game.
You are, of course, correct with your history lesson here. That is indeed the reason that slow combat existed as it did in EQ. There are many times that I enjoy fast paced combat, if not action based. It fits more in a great many games, such as WoW, FFXIV, or BDO. However, I think it's also fair to point out that the slow combat style of times gone by, such as that seen in EQ and FFXI, had a very positive impact. The happy side effect was that you had time to talk in groups because of the downtime, not in spite of it like we see in WoW. In short, it was one of the driving forces behind community, but certainly not the only one. Conversely, that community began to erode, quite fast, the moment WoW burst on the scene and streamlined combat and gameplay. It has only become worse as games get more and more fast paced. That slow combat is now sneered at as people refer to it as "slow WoW-Style combat."
I would urge you to at least check the game out before writing it off as old and outdated. Pantheon seeks to recapture the community feel of old school MMOs, but not necessarily the gameplay of old MMOs. There are a few of us on their forums that don't want another EQ, but if it takes a slower paced combat to regain that lost sense of community, it's a price I would happily pay.
I havent written anything on this board for years, but i also saw the Pantheon stream (actually watched the 3 hour long stream @ youtube).
I decided to check out mmorpg, and behold... OP speaks my mind 100%, i completely agree, and i cannot wait for this game, i know this will be the niche game for me, for many years.
I am 36 years old, with kids, job, wife, house... all that jizz, sure my playtime aint as high as the good old days... but i still love playing games, and when i play games, i wanna be entertained, and i dont need anyone to hold my hand.
I welcome this game, thank you ste2000, for writing down my thoughts, so i dont have to!
Let's not pretend that lowering the TTK or required time devotion doesn't also lower the sense of accomplishment. This is something that modern game companies have failed to understand as they've swung the pendulum so far towards the side of convenience. When something takes longer, it feels inherently more worthwhile to most people. There's a balance there, and the reward must feel worth the time commitment, but inevitably something you worked for is more enjoyable than something you did not.
And for the 100th time, there is simply no data to suggest that people won't find a game like Pantheon enjoyable. There are no other games to compare it to. For years now, developers have been under mandate to replicate the success of one game, and no one has bothered considering what else might also be successful. This will change as soon as a game has success doing something different.
Pretty game. But I played a less-pretty version of this 17 years ago. It's still a pile of characters beating on a single mob at a time, with single adds mezzed and waiting for their beatdown to begin. What about packs of 4-8 mobs at a time? I've been bored with the 4-on-1 fight with 1 healer and 1 crowd controller for quite a long while now.
Beyond the pretty graphics, it's more of the same, nothing new or innovative.
Just how we like it
Just how you THINK you like it.
IMO - after several weeks you'll probably be thinking "I've played all this before... why am I doing this again?"
I've played P99 every day for years. I KNOW its what I like
And he would have us believe that he donated to this game lol. Just by his comment you quoted we know it's a big fat lie.
Embarrassing.
What's embarrassing is that you are quick to call me a liar just because you disagree with me, and quite possibly have an axe to grind with what I've said in the past?
That's embarrassing.
You can't even fathom the idea that I backed Pantheon and I can still be critical of the development decisions?
Backers can and SHOULD be critical - that's how things get better, if everyone just "ooohs" and "aaaahs" at anything developers say.... that's a lot more embarrassing isn't it?
I still play P99, I've played EQ1 since march of 1999 , I have over 7 years of "/played" time.
And yet I am not going to be blind to the fact that the playerbase that can stand to play that type of game has dwindled over the last 17 years and continue to do so every year.
It's a valid concern.
I understand that you like new and old school DMK.....I just think your inside scoop data is completely wrong......COMPLETELY !!
Now, understand there is no possible way to track, chart or poll peoples opinion when FORCE CHANGE FOR PROFET had been made to the industry in the last 10 years.
Add that Marketing, and Advertisement is always skewed..........They have the POWER AND THE MONEY to tell the population what they like. The population has no way to dispute or rebuttal other than using message boards. Any rebuttal would only be considered a guess because its not an official source !
Their progress is indeed impressive, it looks to be shaping up nicely If i had to pick on something -from- this stream in specific, that would the climbing mechanic. I can understand the allure or feel it may provoke in some, but once again, a good mechanic is one thing; whether said good mechanic belongs IN a specific game is quite another matter. [A discussion i will not try and bring up again in their forums..first and last time i tried, Brad popped in barely two posts in to tell the community i am intent on seeing the game fail and no one should listen to me, lol. Yep, that's me, i pay 3 digit figures only to watch them burn, definitely] Anyway, to explain: Tomb Raider-esque mechanics have no place in RPGs, multiplayer or single. Yes, yes, i know, today Call of Duty with swords (Skyrim) and pew pew action games (Dark Souls) are considered RPGs by most of you, but that's not my problem RPGs have one common, defining characteristic you see; that of the avatar exceeding the actual player's skills. THAT is the core. You roleplay your avatar, you roleplay its coming to possess abilities not represented in life. Mechanics therefore that are directly tied to the player's actual, real time, physical skills (and as such bridging the avatar-to-player RPG gap) have no place in RPGs. Hopefully you're grasping my meaning. You don't need to say it, statistically speaking i'm a minority in this, am aware. You're either too young, or never cared/grasped this in the first place, O.K. I just hope that at the least, climbing will be (re)iterated to an extent where the not so nimble can be in a position to employ it as successfully as their younger counterparts. Otherwise we're back to "best-est fingers win the day. Age fifteen or gtfo". Which would be a sad outcome for a game aspiring to be just the opposite.
On a more general note? Again, i find me perfectly capable of putting my misgivings aside and see how it's all coming up. Nicely that is. I just wish i was wrong (and i'm not) in regard to VR's mentality towards -the- major aspect of game development, it being the tiered structure consisting of philosophy, conceptualization and implementation. I am still seeing evidence pinpointing to the team's going along and inventing things as they go, uncertain as to the tie ins newer aspects have on older ones, or unclear (said structure being looser than it should have been) on what can and cannot be included. Good up to some degree, they must be creative, problematic beyond that. And if this wasn't too long already, i could name you instances were this shows. Clearly. Reminding of.. similar past situations that i'd have hoped were behind them. Situations i tried, very politely and indirectly, as i am doing right now, to pinpoint. Except they didn't like that. They prefer fanboys, as most studios do in their forums, this isn't just VR-specific. Either way, happy i supported, happy it's moving along at the rate it is. Just not excited/hyped. Talk is good, but until i see how their wish to do 'x' translates in numbers and empiricity, i remain simply interested. Nice and critical
Comments
This Topic is about Pantheon (about us), and as you put it, you already understood and accepted our point of view.
If you want us to discuss about yourself, your feelings and beliefs, open another thread, as this is not the right place.
I don't even have to think, because I'm the one speaking about it - and I'm not thinking of WoW.
Who is arguing for progression for the sake of progression?
I'm saying progression is a natural part of any MMO - including Pantheon.
We're talking about time versus reward. Pantheon will obviously provide rewards.
I think EQ had an absolutely terrible time versus reward balance - even at release.
Obviously, if you seriously found it perfect - then Pantheon is likely to please you
I have no interest in discussing anything. I have an interest in exchanging and speaking my mind.
The only reason there's a discussion is because you didn't understand my point of view - and I had to make it clearer for you.
I did that not because I want a discussion, but because I prefer being understood.
Also, part of our opinions will inevitably be our feelings and beliefs. How could it not be?
You're not making any sense at all.
Anyway, you just accepted that I feel differently about the game than you do. So, why are you still going on?
Again, you enjoy what you enjoy - and I enjoy what I enjoy.
What do I need to get? What I need to understand? Put a subject to the conversation.
Maybe you need to be a bit more clear on what you want to discuss, so people can address the issue directly and clear the air, because at this point I am genuinely confused about what you want to discuss.
I am trying to understand what he is on about so I can accept it.
I spent two posts already asking that, but he still didn't get the hint.
I hope he is able to tell me what I am supposed to accept, so we can settle the discussion.
After watching the stream I would imagined some jaws dropped, not because it's looks outstanding but because of the progress since the other stream.
One says he is a backer which I don't believe for one minute given his post history on this game.
The other can't get it through his scull that they don't care what he thinks. The game is not being made for his type of MMO player.
He also thinks he knows us who want this type of MMO better than ourselves.
As for time to play, how the hell does the other one know how much time we have on our hand, delusional at best.
I'll will be playing this for years so will like minded people. If it takes days or weeks to get things done and I enjoy getting them done with like minded people then I'm smiling.
DKlond, you keep asking what is wrong with you watching a public video, and, in response, coming to a public forum and posting your thoughts about it. The simple response to that statement is - nothing is wrong with it. With that being said, it seems like a better question is, why do so many people here have such a problem with it?
The answer to that question is simple really - you're coming here stating that some of the core elements of a game that is already being made, is making a mistake because it went a different direction then what you personally like. The problem people on these boards, specifically, have with that is, it's not like the tenants that you dislike are really up for discussion to change. This is how the game is being designed, so why come here and bang a drum that you think it's wrong?
I don't know you, and I'm sure you're a nice enough guy, but how can those of us that desperately want this type of game take your negative disposition as anything but inflammatory? My first instinct was telling me you were just sour grapes for no reason and you came here to troll, but the more I read you posts I changed my mind. Now it actually feels more like you are someone who had hoped this game would go in a direction more to your liking, because it actually had elements that sounded interesting to you, but it ended up missing the mark for you in some big ways. I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but that was just what it started to feel like reading through your posts.
At the end of the day, my question to you would be - What did you hope the outcome would be by coming to a post where people are excited about the current stream, and saying the design is going to be mostly a failure? Even if you think that's true, I still don't get what the purpose for coming here with that message would be. The only thing I can think of is that you were hoping the development team would read your post, and possibly change their core tenants. Anything beyond that makes your posts look purposely caustic.
He insisted telling us that we didn't get or accept his opinion, but I actually got him straight away.
What transpired from his post is that he was telling us we were wrong to like this type of game because according to him combat is slow paced and an archaic design that no longer works in today MMOs.
What he failed to understand is, why we appreciate and accept that most people dislike this kind of design, we actually love it.
But he kept banging on the fact that we didn't get his point of view, truth is we did, but we didn't care because it wasn't relevant to this Pantheon topic, it was becoming a me, me, me conversation.
That's why I suggested to make another thread on the subject.
And I don't think he is a troll, I just think he didn't realized he was way off topic.
It's just a laughable place to argue from against older mechanics when the game in question managed to keep a larger playerbase for a longer period of time than almost any game that's come out in a decade.
People might hate this type of design all they like, but that's the only design that guarantees longevity and a steady number of Subscribers.
Slow leveling is the secret to keep players subscribed, I acknowledge it is an artificial way to make content last longer, but it's a clever one, since it is impossible to produce enough content to last a year in modern fast paced MMOs.
And slow leveling, and slow paced can be fun, because you are not stressed by the thought of having to reach level cap in a month, it also gives you the chance to appreciate the items you gather during your adventures.
In modern games you level so fast that you out-level your gear within a day of playing, killing the joy of obtaining new items.
And he would have us believe that he donated to this game lol. Just by his comment you quoted we know it's a big fat lie.
Embarrassing.
i also feel more satisfied when i achieve a progression milestone that takes months to get to rather than hitting it in a couple days like no big deal.
Your always seems so full of yourself when making this sort of assumptions, you seem to think you are the only one that knows what people really wants.
I like to see you so determined making the same kind of analyses on Archeage an why after just 3 years it has already a foot in the grave, while EQ after 13 years is still going.
Maybe you should offer your wisdom to Trion, who knows maybe Archeage might still have a chance.
You accuse people dishing their own estimates, but you do the same with a touch of arrogance, without producing any facts, just suppositions based on your own taste.
Old School games might be niche but people that play them are very loyal and stick with them for years, unlike other more recent games we know.
And stop labeling people that like this kind of game "nostalgic" I made a couple of thread just to explain to people like you that it is not nostalgia what make us want to play those games.
You might want to head over and read them, you might learn that there are people that actually love the things you hate.
By a wide margin.
You are, of course, correct with your history lesson here. That is indeed the reason that slow combat existed as it did in EQ. There are many times that I enjoy fast paced combat, if not action based. It fits more in a great many games, such as WoW, FFXIV, or BDO. However, I think it's also fair to point out that the slow combat style of times gone by, such as that seen in EQ and FFXI, had a very positive impact. The happy side effect was that you had time to talk in groups because of the downtime, not in spite of it like we see in WoW. In short, it was one of the driving forces behind community, but certainly not the only one. Conversely, that community began to erode, quite fast, the moment WoW burst on the scene and streamlined combat and gameplay. It has only become worse as games get more and more fast paced. That slow combat is now sneered at as people refer to it as "slow WoW-Style combat."
I would urge you to at least check the game out before writing it off as old and outdated. Pantheon seeks to recapture the community feel of old school MMOs, but not necessarily the gameplay of old MMOs. There are a few of us on their forums that don't want another EQ, but if it takes a slower paced combat to regain that lost sense of community, it's a price I would happily pay.
I decided to check out mmorpg, and behold... OP speaks my mind 100%, i completely agree, and i cannot wait for this game, i know this will be the niche game for me, for many years.
I am 36 years old, with kids, job, wife, house... all that jizz, sure my playtime aint as high as the good old days... but i still love playing games, and when i play games, i wanna be entertained, and i dont need anyone to hold my hand.
I welcome this game, thank you ste2000, for writing down my thoughts, so i dont have to!
And for the 100th time, there is simply no data to suggest that people won't find a game like Pantheon enjoyable. There are no other games to compare it to. For years now, developers have been under mandate to replicate the success of one game, and no one has bothered considering what else might also be successful. This will change as soon as a game has success doing something different.
I believe Pantheon will be that game.
I understand that you like new and old school DMK.....I just think your inside scoop data is completely wrong......COMPLETELY !!
Now, understand there is no possible way to track, chart or poll peoples opinion when FORCE CHANGE FOR PROFET had been made to the industry in the last 10 years.
Add that Marketing, and Advertisement is always skewed..........They have the POWER AND THE MONEY to tell the population what they like. The population has no way to dispute or rebuttal other than using message boards. Any rebuttal would only be considered a guess because its not an official source !
I don't care what inside tips you have
Appears they have nailed the initial old school feel and look. It wants to be a genre game and it looks it. Great for those interested in it.
Also some very nice RPG style elements. The unjaded part of me is gaining a level of excitement for this game.
You stay sassy!
If i had to pick on something -from- this stream in specific, that would the climbing mechanic. I can understand the allure or feel it may provoke in some, but once again, a good mechanic is one thing; whether said good mechanic belongs IN a specific game is quite another matter.
[A discussion i will not try and bring up again in their forums..first and last time i tried, Brad popped in barely two posts in to tell the community i am intent on seeing the game fail and no one should listen to me, lol. Yep, that's me, i pay 3 digit figures only to watch them burn, definitely]
Anyway, to explain: Tomb Raider-esque mechanics have no place in RPGs, multiplayer or single. Yes, yes, i know, today Call of Duty with swords (Skyrim) and pew pew action games (Dark Souls) are considered RPGs by most of you, but that's not my problem
RPGs have one common, defining characteristic you see; that of the avatar exceeding the actual player's skills. THAT is the core. You roleplay your avatar, you roleplay its coming to possess abilities not represented in life. Mechanics therefore that are directly tied to the player's actual, real time, physical skills (and as such bridging the avatar-to-player RPG gap) have no place in RPGs. Hopefully you're grasping my meaning. You don't need to say it, statistically speaking i'm a minority in this, am aware. You're either too young, or never cared/grasped this in the first place, O.K.
I just hope that at the least, climbing will be (re)iterated to an extent where the not so nimble can be in a position to employ it as successfully as their younger counterparts.
Otherwise we're back to "best-est fingers win the day. Age fifteen or gtfo". Which would be a sad outcome for a game aspiring to be just the opposite.
On a more general note? Again, i find me perfectly capable of putting my misgivings aside and see how it's all coming up. Nicely that is.
I just wish i was wrong (and i'm not) in regard to VR's mentality towards -the- major aspect of game development, it being the tiered structure consisting of philosophy, conceptualization and implementation.
I am still seeing evidence pinpointing to the team's going along and inventing things as they go, uncertain as to the tie ins newer aspects have on older ones, or unclear (said structure being looser than it should have been) on what can and cannot be included. Good up to some degree, they must be creative, problematic beyond that. And if this wasn't too long already, i could name you instances were this shows. Clearly. Reminding of.. similar past situations that i'd have hoped were behind them. Situations i tried, very politely and indirectly, as i am doing right now, to pinpoint. Except they didn't like that. They prefer fanboys, as most studios do in their forums, this isn't just VR-specific.
Either way, happy i supported, happy it's moving along at the rate it is. Just not excited/hyped. Talk is good, but until i see how their wish to do 'x' translates in numbers and empiricity, i remain simply interested. Nice and critical
Pride, honour and purity