You'd be better served dropping the pretense and sitting at the feet of folks in this subforum to learn something, rather than continually putting your ignorance on display. Despite how old you are, how long you may have played video games, or even your understanding of gaming in general, you are unmistakeably a second generation MMO gamer and the philosophy or raison d'etre of first generation MMORPGs is almost entirely foreign to you.
That's okay, man. It would be childish and unproductive if we held it against you. But just put aside your pride and look past some of the smaller mechanics you dislike and the rationale you've become entrenched in by prolonged exposure to WoW and it's subsequent clones, and consider that there are some truly potent and vital concepts that have fallen by the wayside over the years; which inevitably lead to this lack of success and sustainability in the genre.
So, another "I'm so smart and you're so dumb" post with zero arguments or underpinning supporting your point of view.
I can't say I'm surprised.
You're like a broken record stuck on "WoW was bad and everything before was great"
For the record, I stopped playing WoW in 2008 (though I do check out expansions occasionally) - and it bores me to tears these days. The genre has evolved since those days, though I'm sure you're deliberately oblivious to it.
Then again, I don't suppose you care much about making an impression or appearing like your position is one of merit. One would hope not, for your sake.
I've addressed you plenty of times in the past, but contrary to what you allege against me, it's always a circular argument with you where you come back to "it's old, it was replaced, thus it's bad".
Sorry, but I won't be running in the circle with you any more. Either take my above instruction, or don't.
It's circular only because you refuse to understand the same simple nuances again and again.
I'm not saying it's bad - I'm saying most games and players have moved beyond it.
It's probably really great to SOME people, though I would like to claim even some of those will find themselves surprised by how little fun they'll end up having.
Given where they are now and how much they wish to put into the game it feels like there won't be a feature complete and polished version of this game until at least second half of 2018.
Having healers sit around and do nothing 75% of the time gave an awful impression of gameplay, to the point of me just watching a short part of the stream. Hope they improve it before the next stream.
I wasn't impressed by how the game looked but its not a dealbreaker if it stays that way until launch. The stiff animations are obvious placeholders to be fixed later on.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Given where they are now and how much they wish to put into the game it feels like there won't be a feature complete and polished version of this game until at least second half of 2018.
Having healers sit around and do nothing 75% of the time gave an awful impression of gameplay, to the point of me just watching a short part of the stream. Hope they improve it before the next stream.
I wasn't impressed by how the game looked but its not a dealbreaker if it stays that way until launch. The stiff animations are obvious placeholders to be fixed later on.
Definitely a FAR way off - but I wouldn't expect any different.
These games take a long time to make.
At least there's definite progress - and I'm sure the game will be reasonably polished and functional in a few years.
That said, I still don't understand the appeal of insane TTK and overlong downtimes. I really, really don't.
I haven't seen anything in the development of this game that tells me it'll be successful in the long run. It's going to be more like the Spice Girls, here today, forgotten and gone tomorrow.
The game mechanics that I think do matter in an MMO are:
1) No cash shop (even cosmetic) period. 2) No instances. Open world contested, but enough content so the servers do not feel overpopulated. 3) Subscription payment model. 4) Emphasis on group based game play and raiding. 5) Unique classes, with specialization. Healers, crowd control, support classes, etc. 6) Ability to acquire all the spells and abilities for your class, but limit the amount of spells on your hotbar at a time. None of these skill trees, where you spend points and must specialize within your class. 7) No linear quest hubs, and set advancements paths from zone to zone. 8) A FFA PvP server, without creating PvP specific content (no battlegrounds and no pvp rankings). Let the fighting over PvE things be the PvP content. Balance the classes around PvE, not PvP (like the PvP in EQ1 and Vanguard). 9) Tab target based combat that requires skill and awareness. The action based combat in MMO's these days, which is basically running around in circles, trying to outflank your opponent, clicking your left mouse button as fast as you can, I find stupid. 10) Meaningful death. Exp loss and corpse runs from PvE. No exp loss or looting from PvP and no permadeath.
As far as I know, Pantheon checks off all of these points, and that is why I think it will be a fun game. But it's certainly not for everyone.
Excellent post, that's what many of us want, it just cracks me up that some people keep telling us we are wrong to desire such things. But my question to them is "what's not to like?"
I haven't seen anything in the development of this game that tells me it'll be successful in the long run. It's going to be more like the Spice Girls, here today, forgotten and gone tomorrow.
Whereas the popularity of recent MMOs are like that guy from Gangnam Style.
I haven't seen anything in the development of this game that tells me it'll be successful in the long run. It's going to be more like the Spice Girls, here today, forgotten and gone tomorrow.
Whereas the popularity of recent MMOs are like that guy from Gangnam Style.
I just want to point out that, EQ a 13 y/o game, is single handedly keeping DayBreak afloat.
Longevity is not actually a problem for this type of games, they have actually the most loyal player base of any other MMO. So the problem won't be longevity or player loyalty, but more player numbers (how big is the potential player base). For that we have to wait and see, but my gut feeling tells me there is a BIG (not small) niche for this kind of games.
I haven't seen anything in the development of this game that tells me it'll be successful in the long run. It's going to be more like the Spice Girls, here today, forgotten and gone tomorrow.
Whereas the popularity of recent MMOs are like that guy from Gangnam Style.
True words ^
secondly, I love it when people rush to judgment on something that is a long ways out still. I wish people would go back and watch the first stream and then watch the 2nd and compare the two to see the strides and progress they have made.
I am convinced that some elements are non negotiable even if I may have grown to dislike some aspects of the old game play in Everquest. What I am saying is that even if the genre has marched on to other ways to play the game it does not create what we enjoyed and liked in Everquest.
Things in Everquest were the way the were because of the TTK and competition for mobs caused by no instances. I think I mean that in spite of us hating some aspects of Everquest it lead to a construction of a game play that endured and has lasted and that a portion of the player base want back. Even if it is a smaller player base than what might flock to another MMORPG there is a market for it.
Even if some aspects of the game in Everquest can be modernized and also some quality of life improvements made, certain things have to remain exactly like it was in Everquest with very little change. Those things can be credited with creating a strong community something we are sorely lacking in MMORPGs these days and it is no coincidence that as the elements that forged those strong ties are removed it lead to the destruction of community as we once knew it.
People have often pointed to strong communities even though they are a very niche games in a brutal PvP game . It was borne out of the need to band together forced by circumstances that make it necessary for people to try to built communities and being civil to one another.
I also think that the people that enjoyed Everquest also enjoyed the time it took to work out strategies and the plethora of choices we had in an encounter for each class. It made each choice of the spell gem matter and I must say with the speed of combat in action-like MMORPGs that nuance is lost and people who are simply slow unable to keep up. People like me who are unable to play the newer action games welcome the style that was Everquest.
Even if you think you are trying to advance a change here on this discussion bear this in mind and try to stop ridiculing those of us who want what we want. I think we have been playing in this genre long enough to know what we miss.
For both camps it is important to keep perspective and remove the emotion from posting and just state our opinions and leave it at that.
Agreed. Opinions are good. Facts passed as opinions are not.
I am happy you are now more open minded and give Pantheon and Old School the benefit of the doubt, which is what people are asking, they are not asking to agree with them. People don't like Pantheon? Fine People don't like Old School? Fine People thinks this game will fail? Fine People saying this game will fail because "no one wants to play this kind of game today"? Not fine
People needs evidence for this kind of claims, and in this case there is no much data available. No one knows how big (or small) Old School player base really is, so any thoughts on the matter is just gut feelings and they should be expressed as opinions not matter of fact statements.
Have you also thought that this game might appeal to a new generation of players that never played this kind of game and might like it? Take the 2D revival (Isometric games), we thought it was dead long time ago but in recent years we saw a revival of this "ancient" technology both in MMOs and Single Player Games. Some things just don't go out of fashion, I think Old School mechanics is one of those thing. I am sure many kids of the new generation might like this.
Just because Pantheon is making a game that appeals to old school players does not mean all old school players will enjoy Pantheon by default.
Good point. There are other new Old School games being made at the moment like CU and Crowfall. But Pantheon has an advantage in my opinion that people and the industry seems to overlook. It is the only PvE centric game being made at the moment.
In my view there are 2 categories that have been ignored by the MMO Industry in recent years: 1) Old School Players 2) PvE Players
Pantheon is aimed at both of those type of players who have nothing to play at the moment, and although making a PvE only game cut off the PvP crowd I believe that the PvE crowd now is bigger in the MMO market, as most PvP players moved to MOBAs.
That's also the reason why I believe PvP MMOs are now redundant, I don't see CU or Crowfall being a huge success, they will do ok, but the PvP crowd moved on from MMOs (mostly). All PvP games released recently are dropping like flies, I know you are playing Albion, is not doing good is it?
So if VR play its cards well, I think Pantheon is the game that will have the biggest chance of being the most successful among the current bunch of MMOs being developed at the moment. The potential is there, the question is "can VR pull it off?"
I really enjoyed watching that stream, seeing the pace of game play. So many MMO today the dungeon content just seems to be about smashing through it as fast as possible, just so you can do it over again or find another dungeon to break the speed limit in. Because of this, no cc is required really, just a tank, healer and maximum dps.
I hope that the
ability to switch off xp is in game. I have seen this in one other game and really appreciated it. It was something that I would have liked in Vanguard.
There were so many good dungeons that I could not do them all on one toon(
not really an issue, but not into alt itis either ).
I do remember
one quest series though in some elven town for around late 30 to early 40 level
I think, this was for a set of armour which took me several weeks to
obtain, by the time I was done I was over level a bit for the gear.
It would have been nice to turn off xp, I was more into the
experience of the quest series and the grouping with a good reward at the end
than going up in level.
Comments
I'm not saying it's bad - I'm saying most games and players have moved beyond it.
It's probably really great to SOME people, though I would like to claim even some of those will find themselves surprised by how little fun they'll end up having.
Having healers sit around and do nothing 75% of the time gave an awful impression of gameplay, to the point of me just watching a short part of the stream. Hope they improve it before the next stream.
I wasn't impressed by how the game looked but its not a dealbreaker if it stays that way until launch. The stiff animations are obvious placeholders to be fixed later on.
These games take a long time to make.
At least there's definite progress - and I'm sure the game will be reasonably polished and functional in a few years.
That said, I still don't understand the appeal of insane TTK and overlong downtimes. I really, really don't.
But my question to them is "what's not to like?"
PS: You missed 'slow leveling'
I just want to point out that, EQ a 13 y/o game, is single handedly keeping DayBreak afloat.
Longevity is not actually a problem for this type of games, they have actually the most loyal player base of any other MMO.
So the problem won't be longevity or player loyalty, but more player numbers (how big is the potential player base).
For that we have to wait and see, but my gut feeling tells me there is a BIG (not small) niche for this kind of games.
secondly, I love it when people rush to judgment on something that is a long ways out still. I wish people would go back and watch the first stream and then watch the 2nd and compare the two to see the strides and progress they have made.
Things in Everquest were the way the were because of the TTK and competition for mobs caused by no instances. I think I mean that in spite of us hating some aspects of Everquest it lead to a construction of a game play that endured and has lasted and that a portion of the player base want back. Even if it is a smaller player base than what might flock to another MMORPG there is a market for it.
Even if some aspects of the game in Everquest can be modernized and also some quality of life improvements made, certain things have to remain exactly like it was in Everquest with very little change. Those things can be credited with creating a strong community something we are sorely lacking in MMORPGs these days and it is no coincidence that as the elements that forged those strong ties are removed it lead to the destruction of community as we once knew it.
People have often pointed to strong communities even though they are a very niche games in a brutal PvP game . It was borne out of the need to band together forced by circumstances that make it necessary for people to try to built communities and being civil to one another.
I also think that the people that enjoyed Everquest also enjoyed the time it took to work out strategies and the plethora of choices we had in an encounter for each class. It made each choice of the spell gem matter and I must say with the speed of combat in action-like MMORPGs that nuance is lost and people who are simply slow unable to keep up. People like me who are unable to play the newer action games welcome the style that was Everquest.
Even if you think you are trying to advance a change here on this discussion bear this in mind and try to stop ridiculing those of us who want what we want. I think we have been playing in this genre long enough to know what we miss.
κ±°λΆμ΄λ λͺ©μ λ΄λ° λ μ μμ§μ λλ€
Agreed.
Opinions are good.
Facts passed as opinions are not.
I am happy you are now more open minded and give Pantheon and Old School the benefit of the doubt, which is what people are asking, they are not asking to agree with them.
People don't like Pantheon? Fine
People don't like Old School? Fine
People thinks this game will fail? Fine
People saying this game will fail because "no one wants to play this kind of game today"? Not fine
People needs evidence for this kind of claims, and in this case there is no much data available.
No one knows how big (or small) Old School player base really is, so any thoughts on the matter is just gut feelings and they should be expressed as opinions not matter of fact statements.
Have you also thought that this game might appeal to a new generation of players that never played this kind of game and might like it?
Take the 2D revival (Isometric games), we thought it was dead long time ago but in recent years we saw a revival of this "ancient" technology both in MMOs and Single Player Games.
Some things just don't go out of fashion, I think Old School mechanics is one of those thing.
I am sure many kids of the new generation might like this.
κ±°λΆμ΄λ λͺ©μ λ΄λ° λ μ μμ§μ λλ€
There are other new Old School games being made at the moment like CU and Crowfall.
But Pantheon has an advantage in my opinion that people and the industry seems to overlook.
It is the only PvE centric game being made at the moment.
In my view there are 2 categories that have been ignored by the MMO Industry in recent years:
1) Old School Players
2) PvE Players
Pantheon is aimed at both of those type of players who have nothing to play at the moment, and although making a PvE only game cut off the PvP crowd I believe that the PvE crowd now is bigger in the MMO market, as most PvP players moved to MOBAs.
That's also the reason why I believe PvP MMOs are now redundant, I don't see CU or Crowfall being a huge success, they will do ok, but the PvP crowd moved on from MMOs (mostly).
All PvP games released recently are dropping like flies, I know you are playing Albion, is not doing good is it?
So if VR play its cards well, I think Pantheon is the game that will have the biggest chance of being the most successful among the current bunch of MMOs being developed at the moment.
The potential is there, the question is "can VR pull it off?"
κ±°λΆμ΄λ λͺ©μ λ΄λ° λ μ μμ§μ λλ€
I really enjoyed watching that stream, seeing the pace of game play. So many MMO today the dungeon content just seems to be about smashing through it as fast as possible, just so you can do it over again or find another dungeon to break the speed limit in. Because of this, no cc is required really, just a tank, healer and maximum dps.
I hope that the ability to switch off xp is in game. I have seen this in one other game and really appreciated it. It was something that I would have liked in Vanguard. There were so many good dungeons that I could not do them all on one toon( not really an issue, but not into alt itis either ).
I do remember one quest series though in some elven town for around late 30 to early 40 level I think, this was for a set of armour which took me several weeks to obtain, by the time I was done I was over level a bit for the gear. It would have been nice to turn off xp, I was more into the experience of the quest series and the grouping with a good reward at the end than going up in level.