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"Battered & Bruised" Nostalrius Server to Launch Dec 17 - World of Warcraft News

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Comments

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Deekins said:
    laserit said:
    People bring up Eula's and statements on a box. "Your experience may change" is protecting them from having to give you a refund. Nothing more complicated than that.

    As far as IP theft, I don't believe its so cut and dried. There would be precedence if it was. Taking a fan run, non-profit server to court is a very risky prospect for someone like Blizzard. If it wasn't scary for them, we wouldn't be debating about it.

    We'd be pointing to actual rulings.

    This isn't a new issue that just popped up, it's been around for quite some time now. In Wow's case, Its been over a decade since I've heard about private WoW servers. 
    I've received refunds on MMO's. Taken the box back and got a refund. Putting the game may change on the box is letting you know it won't stay the same. It is a forewarning. Some people just can't accept the fact the game has changed.

    No the problem right now is it isn't up and running. Once it is, Blizzard can take them to court. They stole their IP, there is no needing of proof since it is all over the internet what they plan to do. You can't just jack peoples crap and expect it to be ok. 

    As far as I know Blizzard has never taken anyone to court for running a private server. But there is always a first. And I would bet on the side of Blizzard.
    Must be a nice store where you buy your boxed games from. I can return them for a refund only if the game hasn't been opened.

    And your absolutely correct it is a forewarning that the game may change and that absolves them from having to give refunds for that reason. Which incidentally is a rock solid reason to want a refund, having that warning is the right and proper thing to have on the box and that is why it's there. 

    Blizzard can take them to court right now, Nostalius is already guilty of *your* clear cut case of IP theft.  Why don't they? Why are they not taking anyone of the multitude of private servers to court?

    Most likely it's because it ain't a slam dunk and a ruling in favor of a fan run non-profit private server would be absolutley disastrous.

    It's a big risk, It's not about being Mr Nice Guy.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
     Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives. 
    I didn't inhale ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited December 2016
    laserit said:

    Must be a nice store where you buy your boxed games from. I can return them for a refund only if the game hasn't been opened.

    And your absolutely correct it is a forewarning that the game may change and that absolves them from having to give refunds for that reason. Which incidentally is a rock solid reason to want a refund, having that warning is the right and proper thing to have on the box and that is why it's there. 

    Blizzard can take them to court right now, Nostalius is already guilty of *your* clear cut case of IP theft.  Why don't they? Why are they not taking anyone of the multitude of private servers to court?

    Most likely it's because it ain't a slam dunk and a ruling in favor of a fan run non-profit private server would be absolutley disastrous.

    It's a big risk, It's not about being Mr Nice Guy.
    If you're not referring to servers that are outside of their reach... Which even with those I'm sure there's constant research on the subject. You can't really say what is and what is not going on behind the scenes. Blizzard acting against private servers has been an ongoing process for quite a while, and those are just the stories that make major headlines. They seem to move on a case by case basis, which probably starts very quietly as they move to collect evidence and other pertinent information, so they can move forward with a plan of action. That's what legal teams/divisions do...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    GladDog said:
    What blows me away is that people say they can't wait to get back into the 'Vanilla community.' The Vanilla community is why I quit this game. The Vanilla community was still there when BC released, and their 'wonderfulness' is why I will NEVER play any version of WoW ever, ever again.

    That said, I really think that Blizzard needs to do what they can to appease their fan base. There is a strong community that wants Vanilla servers, and Blizz should give them to the players. Problem solved. Won't need pirate servers if there is an official one. I have always thought that game publishers should give players what they want; within reason of course! An item that takes up one inv slot and and slays everything within 50 meters, including players, with one shot is not reasonable. Making early version servers that require virtually no support (and that players are willing to pay a reduced rate sub for) is reasonable.
    Very fair statement.  

    I'm honestly shocked with the regards towards the vanilla community (the one that just plays the game and loves it, not the one tcurrently fighting for it, me included with my hot-headedness).  During Vanilla and BC I had so many postive encounters with strangers, it overshadowed any bad experiences I had.  It wasn't until Wotlk when the dynamic of how groups were formed and a further stress on -endgame only mentality- did I run into so many abrasive players.  As most of us know it got worse with each iteration of the game afterward.

    Amazingly enough, my recent experiences with these communities in game have reminded my why I love group play, MMO's, RPG's.  I'm reminded how much I enjoy the journey, not the destination.  I don't mind scrapping a toon after a year to start a new because it truly was about a journey and experience with others.


    Is anyone honestly surprised though?  Blizzard created a game that touched millions and changed it.  If Monopoly was suddenly taken off the shelves and changed, human nature finds a way to replace the beloved past time with any possible recreation of it.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 976
    Sovrath said:
    GladDog said:
     Making early version servers that require virtually no support (and that players are willing to pay a reduced rate sub for) is reasonable.
    I wonder how true this part is though.

    It costs money to run servers and for players to connect to them.

    Blizzard will want things to run well as it's their company name on the line.

    To that end, company's budget everything as well as forecast costs, profits, etc.

    Just because the "product" the public servers put out don't cost much doesn't mean that's how Blizzard wants their product to be represented. My guess is that this costs more than players realize because they are thinking of it only in the context of "all you need is the server software and we're good".
    Of course there are costs.  Bandwidth still costs money, although it is a lot cheaper than it used to be.

    The big deal is they don't need to develop content.  All they need is maintenance and people to handle trouble tickets.  So instead of a team of 200 designing content while a team of 50 squashes bugs and a team of 100 handling support requests, a team of ten could do the whole thing.  These are vanilla servers, they do not want updates.  With no new content, there are no new bugs to squash, just a few leftovers they never tackled in the first place.

    So the 200 are not needed.  The 50 can become 7 at first, then reducing size as time goes on.  The 100 could be 12.  Since the game stays static, there will be fewer and fewer support requests as old an new players learn/remember the ins and outs.  So 12 may settle to 5.

    So the servers go to maintenance mode, with 10 people supporting the whole thing.  A sub fee of $9.99 is probably plenty, $6.99 if you also sub to the main game.

    And they could offer a 14 day unlimited free trial.  The Vanilla servers become the trial servers, and a player that wants to play the main game can bring their trial player to the 'real' servers with a level and gear boost, maybe +25 levels and standard blue gear.  And a player that 'vanillas' to the level cap and gets some good gear may be able to transfer over at level 85 with lowest level purples.  They still have lots to gain and they are in the level range where they can play with the 'real' guilds.

    It is hard for me to see how Blizzard could lose in this deal.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 704
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,079
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.







  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:

    Must be a nice store where you buy your boxed games from. I can return them for a refund only if the game hasn't been opened.

    And your absolutely correct it is a forewarning that the game may change and that absolves them from having to give refunds for that reason. Which incidentally is a rock solid reason to want a refund, having that warning is the right and proper thing to have on the box and that is why it's there. 

    Blizzard can take them to court right now, Nostalius is already guilty of *your* clear cut case of IP theft.  Why don't they? Why are they not taking anyone of the multitude of private servers to court?

    Most likely it's because it ain't a slam dunk and a ruling in favor of a fan run non-profit private server would be absolutley disastrous.

    It's a big risk, It's not about being Mr Nice Guy.
    If you're not referring to servers that are outside of their reach... Which even with those I'm sure there's constant research on the subject. You can't really say what is and what is not going on behind the scenes. Blizzard acting against private servers has been an ongoing process for quite a while, and those are just the stories that make major headlines. They seem to move on a case by case basis, which probably starts very quietly as they move to collect evidence and other pertinent information, so they can move forward with a plan of action. That's what legal teams/divisions do...
    France is not some rogue nation.

    If it is so clear cut, the damage is to do nothing. If your slam dunk IP theft case is being conducted in a friendly nation like France you'd think they'd be jumping at the opportunity to bring the case to the courts. 

    Precedence can be a very powerful thing. Very bad if it doesn't go your way. Very risky

    When or if a case actually goes to the courts, make no mistake, it will be front page news in gaming quarters.

    Litigation by Intimidation means diddly squat.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    edited December 2016
    Dakeru said:
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.
    Right back at ya?  Dishing hate towards those passionate about something.

    And there is nothing obvious about that assumption, which is why he responded in such a sarcastic manner.  I can't remember ever filling out any kind of survey about my thoughts on it. 
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,079
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.





  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,079
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.



  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    Yeah not hateful and extreme at all...
    Harbinger of Fools
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,666
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.
    Great post. This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. Thanks.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,079
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    lol, ok fair enough and makes sense. I've worked for non-profits and also "for profits" and obviously the businesses are run differently.



  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    edited December 2016
    Gotta agree with most peeps,it is good news for Blizzard,more subs and some of us will also buy their (horrible)expansions too for support. But still,would be nice if Blizzard provided this service for their fans by themself.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,900
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.
    The only reason I'm playing on a private server is because Blizzard doesn't offer official legacy servers that I would pay a sub for.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • WhySoSeriousWhySoSerious Member UncommonPosts: 156

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    Aori said:

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.



    Oh yeah leechers who paid sub for years and bought all WOW expansion until I decided that I want to try or go back to Vanilla . You have a limited and narrow mind my dear friend !

    I've heard Wow Awakening is moving Servers to Europe for legal purposes possible to avoid Blizzard IP owner ship like that ?

    Other wise I don't see a good reason to start and all to be Wiped again .
    Just because I was loyal to my local grocery store for 10 years doesn't mean I can just walk in and help myself what I want at no cost.

    You're stealing, there is no justification for your actions, you're a criminal.
    Oh shut the fuck up these fucking nerds are criminals?? idiots like you don't drop a word about how corrupt are USA politicians and Corporations and lobbyists  with special interest . NO real criminals are some Nerds ...and who for years supported the development of the game ....in  first place .....if not millions of nerds wow would have never succeeded ....


    Stop shifting goal posts.  Try staying on topic for a second.  The other things (like the politicians) are also criminals.  See how easy that was.  Both are breaking the law.  
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    ....

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    .....



    And I think that statement gets to the core of the disagreement between those for and those against what Nostalrius is doing.  I chose not to side with the George Lucas's of the world on this issue.  If a creator wants to change their work to the point where it only vaguely resembles the original work that I loved, that's their prerogative, but I'm still going to enjoy the version I love if at all possible.  I see nothing wrong with that and I've see no argument put forward yet that would persuade me otherwise.  I sure as hell am not going to toss out my original collections of Star Wars because George Lucas decided to shit all over his own legacy and the same is true with World of Warcraft.  If I'm to be labeled a criminal for that position then so be it.
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,160

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
    Thought the server wasn't out yet? 

    Either way, if the server is located in Russia, and it depends on where in Russia but for most people they won't be seeing sub 200ms. Add in cheaply run servers and overload, you're going to have some nasty latency.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    ....

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    .....



    And I think that statement gets to the core of the disagreement between those for and those against what Nostalrius is doing.  I chose not to side with the George Lucas's of the world on this issue.  If a creator wants to change their work to the point where it only vaguely resembles the original work that I loved, that's their prerogative, but I'm still going to enjoy the version I love if at all possible.  I see nothing wrong with that and I've see no argument put forward yet that would persuade me otherwise.  I sure as hell am not going to toss out my original collections of Star Wars because George Lucas decided to shit all over his own legacy and the same is true with World of Warcraft.  If I'm to be labeled a criminal for that position then so be it.
      I get it Sedryn , i understand you want your game ,as i would like an official Vanilla UO , but there isnt one , But I will not support those private servers either(i also have invested in EA) ... The problem with Nos(Elysium) and Sovrath hinted at it , Is it is a misrepresentation of there Product(Brand) And they have Investors to answer to , its funny to me when i see people labeling Blizz , as just this mindless corp Zerg ..

       Blizz has a fanbase that has grown every year since they started , they must be doing something right , ANd there focus is growing that base by expanding there Brands  and increasing revenue for Investors , and" Protecting "those brands.....Particularly as they try to move into other entertaiment in Movie/Books/TV
     
      I saw one guy in this thread saying he has a right to erhmm  use the private server because he spent 1000$ since 2005 on Wow.. .. Well there are people that have invested 100 of Thousands into Blizz, and they expect that investment protected ...Not to be misrepresented by a pirate server ...Especially one that wants to be so Bold and throw it there face , Its like your kid being bad just because he wants your attention , Well they are going to get Blizzs attention , but they may not like the results just like that bad kid...They would be better served to just go about there business in the dark...

      When this topic came up last year i told you that, nothing would come of it at this time ..that  1 year after Legion they would look at all the data , and may do some sort of Legacy server at that time ... But that would be determined by what paying customers want .. not what amounts to .001% of there paying fanbase, stealing and misrpresenting there product ...
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