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I'm playing Archeage.. despite all the hate.

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  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    Eldurian said:
    Forgrimm said:
    raystantz said:
    ...I enjoy random world PVP, and that's the thing I like to do the most...
    If that's your main focus, then I'd suggest you steer clear of AA. You have 0 chance of being competitive in PVP unless you dump a lot of money into the game and pick one of the high performing classes such as Darkrunner, Shadowblade, Daggerspell, etc. I played AA for a year and a half and had a lot of fun but my main focus was farming, crafting, and trade runs.
    I remember screwing people's worlds up on my Shadowbane (Vitalism, Defense, Witchcraft) and my fiance did quite damn well for herself on her Bloodreaver (Bloodrage, Auramancy, Occultism).

    Yes the gear disparity can be a major problem. But no, you don't need to play a Shadowbane, Daggerspell, Cleric or some other super common build to be effective if you know how to make a proper build. There are plenty of non-cookie cutters you can kick butt with if you are any good.
    Maybe back in the days when Hasla weapons were top tier. As gear progressed though, the standout classes became even more standout.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
  • 03cobradude03cobradude Member UncommonPosts: 47
    I'm going back for fresh start along with my guild. Archage had the some of the best PVP combat, way better than BDO's. Plus the ships combat is pretty awesome, and I loved killing for trade packs.  Just hope the fresh start solved some of the issues I had with the game like: Land Hackers and punch you in the nuts RNG "Which it looks like they have reduced significantly". We'll see how this goes, but I've got my hopes up.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Here's the thing. You need to think about your build before you make it.

    Vitalism/Defence/Auramancy. Those choices are not random, they were carefully selected as was every skill in my build. Vitalism because the build primarily functions as a healer. But playing the cookie cutter cleric (Vitalism/Defence/Songcraft) I found that while the healing output was amazing any competent opponents made a B line straight for me as the healer and shut me down hard. This was especially painfully obvious in 3v3 arenas but was also a problem in small group Open World PvP.

    Defence was selected because shield+redoubt makes any class multiple times harder to kill. Smacking someone who's up on you with your shield is also a good way to set up a cast time skill like bubbling them or using an Antithesis on yourself.

    Witchcraft was put there to get people the hell off me. I ran such skills as bubble and banshee's wail (The AoE fear) to ensure I had a good array of skills for getting people off me in any situation.

    The result was everyone would make a B line straight for me, I would have the tank to survive their CC chains, get up, fear them all, put off a fervent healing on myself and then run around healing allies and CCing enemies until they started dropping. Usually the enemy healer (A cleric) would get slaughtered in no time at all meaning my time won even though my healing output was lower. Templars (Vitalism/Defence/Auramancy) were a bit tricky since neither of us go down easy but I would say my build was on a par with a Templar. I think it's actually more powerful but it's also harder to play well.

    No you can't go Sorcery/Archery/Battlerage, pick whatever skills you think look good to you, and be successful. Yes, there is plenty of room to excel as a well thought out non-cookie cutter build.


  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    Eldurian said:
    I'm talking like this spring.
    Shadowbane isn't an obscure class though. It's a troll class like Poxbane, lets you lock down an opponent with cc's and mana drain them while getting some heals in. It works well in balanced arenas where gear is equal and the witchcraft pet is as powerful as another player. Outside of that it isn't very effective though, and it requires weapon swapping to really work well. The fact still remains that out of 120 possible classes, most of them are garbage in pvp settings, while a handful stand way out. Which is why you typically see 5,000 Abolishers, Darkrunners, and Shadowblades as melee. And Daggerspells, Enigmatists, and Revenant types of builds for mages.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Forgrimm said:
    Eldurian said:
    I'm talking like this spring.
    Shadowbane isn't an obscure class though. It's a troll class like Poxbane, lets you lock down an opponent with cc's and mana drain them while getting some heals in. It works well in balanced arenas where gear is equal and the witchcraft pet is as powerful as another player. Outside of that it isn't very effective though, and it requires weapon swapping to really work well. The fact still remains that out of 120 possible classes, most of them are garbage in pvp settings, while a handful stand way out. Which is why you typically see 5,000 Abolishers, Darkrunners, and Shadowblades as melee. And Daggerspells, Enigmatists, and Revenant types of builds for mages.
    Please don't tell me how I played my character and where it was effective. I played it as a primary healer, didn't really focus on mana drain at all, never weapon swapped whatsoever and found it to be most effective in boat fights. Which was great as I usually ran at least one full load of packs across the ocean a day.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited December 2016
    As a casual you can make a little sailboat.  You can't own land, or you can but it won't be easy to maintain as casual player.  Don't try to craft anything.  Explore and run around just having fun.  If you try to make gold then you will end up frustrated and empty bank account.

    And believe me the archeage hate is well deserved.
    Desoloth
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
    I'm just all sorts of confused now.

    Group A says: NO! You can't pvp in this game if you are casual, you will be destroyed! You cannot play a non cookie cutter build and be viable. You also have to spend a crap ton of real money to even be viable period. Like, you won't even do any damage to anyone and you will die in seconds. You have no hope!

    Group B says: NO! You totally can be viable if you know how to play your class and you take care in making sure your build is viable. Sure there's a gear disparity and it will take longer to gear up without spending a crap ton of money, but you can do it. You won't destroy everyone 1 v 1 but you'll be able to hold your own in groups and not be a complete push over.

    So which is it?

    www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules

    Currently playing:

    FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Archeage is a great game until you hit cap.  Then it is either grind like its your second job or use the cash shop. 

    I do recommend getting into a guild and playing with others at cap.  As a solo pvper, you will get owned constantly.  Even with friends you will come across the occasional "wallet warrior" who will two or three shot you.

    I also recommend you try Black Desert since you mentioned it.  Much more to do in the game like breeding horses and pets, no mandatory pvp until level 50, no limited housing and you can have workers do the boring stuff like mine or chop trees for you.  I also prefer their cash shop to the one in AA.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    filmoret said:
    As a casual you can make a little sailboat.  You can't own land, or you can but it won't be easy to maintain as casual player.  Don't try to craft anything.  Explore and run around just having fun.  If you try to make gold then you will end up frustrated and empty bank account.

    And believe me the archeage hate is well deserved.
    As someone not willing to pay a premium subscription you can never find any good MMO ever. Every single MMO either has a premium subscription that makes the game total crap without it or a super invasive cash shop that expects you to shell out massive money to be even slightly competitive in any way. Or it it's just a super simplistic world that has combat, exploration, and not much else like Guild Wars.

    It's hard enough to find a good MMO. Simply isn't going to happen if you're too cheap for 15$/mo. Though I do know how to get every single month after my first month free in ArcheAge with minimal effort and sacrifice. Not going to share that one publicly. lol
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    Eldurian said:
    Forgrimm said:
    Eldurian said:
    I'm talking like this spring.
    Shadowbane isn't an obscure class though. It's a troll class like Poxbane, lets you lock down an opponent with cc's and mana drain them while getting some heals in. It works well in balanced arenas where gear is equal and the witchcraft pet is as powerful as another player. Outside of that it isn't very effective though, and it requires weapon swapping to really work well. The fact still remains that out of 120 possible classes, most of them are garbage in pvp settings, while a handful stand way out. Which is why you typically see 5,000 Abolishers, Darkrunners, and Shadowblades as melee. And Daggerspells, Enigmatists, and Revenant types of builds for mages.
    Please don't tell me how I played my character and where it was effective. I played it as a primary healer, didn't really focus on mana drain at all, never weapon swapped whatsoever and found it to be most effective in boat fights. Which was great as I usually ran at least one full load of packs across the ocean a day.
    Shadowbane as a primary healer? Not using mana drains? In other words, you weren't playing the class to its strengths. I'll just return one of your LoL's then.
  • raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
    Talonsin said:
    Archeage is a great game until you hit cap.  Then it is either grind like its your second job or use the cash shop. 

    I do recommend getting into a guild and playing with others at cap.  As a solo pvper, you will get owned constantly.  Even with friends you will come across the occasional "wallet warrior" who will two or three shot you.

    I also recommend you try Black Desert since you mentioned it.  Much more to do in the game like breeding horses and pets, no mandatory pvp until level 50, no limited housing and you can have workers do the boring stuff like mine or chop trees for you.  I also prefer their cash shop to the one in AA.
    I have BDO, I just wish you could PVP out in the world before 50.. I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.

    www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules

    Currently playing:

    FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    BDO is awesome, so is ArcheAge. But I'm crazy... I want PVE more than PVP. I'm old-fashioned (or chicken).

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
    BDO is awesome, so is ArcheAge. But I'm crazy... I want PVE more than PVP. I'm old-fashioned (or chicken).
    I want both. I'm still more of a PVEer than a PVPer but there's just something about world pvp that I dig.

    www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules

    Currently playing:

    FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    raystantz said:
    I'm just all sorts of confused now.

    Group A says: NO! You can't pvp in this game if you are casual, you will be destroyed! You cannot play a non cookie cutter build and be viable. You also have to spend a crap ton of real money to even be viable period. Like, you won't even do any damage to anyone and you will die in seconds. You have no hope!

    Group B says: NO! You totally can be viable if you know how to play your class and you take care in making sure your build is viable. Sure there's a gear disparity and it will take longer to gear up without spending a crap ton of money, but you can do it. You won't destroy everyone 1 v 1 but you'll be able to hold your own in groups and not be a complete push over.

    So which is it?
    Whatever you decide, if you pick Archeage, go with the fresh start server.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Defence and crowd control isn't strong on a PvP healer? Obviously you aren't good at healing in PvP if you think that. The ability to take hits get people off of you is HUGE when you are the primary healer in PvP because you're the only character people are going to continue to focus on despite that, especially when you can put their healer or one of their primary damage dealers in a bubble in addition to healing your own team. Also great in boat fights when the enemies swarm your boat and you AoE fear them all back into the water, or when you board the enemy boat and put half their guys in the water. 

    I played it to it's strengths, the strengths I wanted from the build, and it worked exceptionally well for me. Just because they aren't the strengths you have in mind doesn't mean it was a bad build. That's just the talk of someone who can't make a decent custom build. Sounds like you suffer from a lack of creativity TBH. I don't have that problem.

    This is a great illustration of how there are classes in ArcheAge with the potential for multiple effective builds though. The build you assumed I played isn't anything like what I was wrecking boat fights and 3v3 arenas with.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    Eldurian said:
    Defence and crowd control isn't strong on a PvP healer? Obviously you aren't good at healing in PvP if you think that. The ability to take hits get people off of you is HUGE when you are the primary healer in PvP because you're the only character people are going to continue to focus on despite that, especially when you can put their healer or one of their primary damage dealers in a bubble in addition to healing your own team. Also great in boat fights when the enemies swarm your boat and you AoE fear them all back into the water, or when you board the enemy boat and put half their guys in the water. 

    I played it to it's strengths, the strengths I wanted from the build, and it worked exceptionally well for me. Just because they aren't the strengths you have in mind doesn't mean it was a bad build. That's just the talk of someone who can't make a decent custom build. Sounds like you suffer from a lack of creativity TBH. I don't have that problem.

    This is a great illustration of how there are classes in ArcheAge with the potential for multiple effective builds though. The build you assumed I played isn't anything like what I was wrecking boat fights and 3v3 arenas with.
    Ok then, you keep wrecking those boat fights with your sub-par healer "custom build".
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    raystantz said:
    BDO is awesome, so is ArcheAge. But I'm crazy... I want PVE more than PVP. I'm old-fashioned (or chicken).
    I want both. I'm still more of a PVEer than a PVPer but there's just something about world pvp that I dig.

    If you want both then you would be much better off in GW2 or ESO.  There is a wall in Archeage and it hits once you reach cap level.  The wall is steep and you will have to either grind for 100+ hours or spend a ton of money.  And that is for basic gear.  Not anything special.

    It is possible that changes were made.  I remember reaching cap level then getting some very basic gear.  And my next tier upgrades would take me over 200 hours of grinding.  So I quit instead.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Now you're just being a fool. You're assuming the build is sub par when you clearly know about as much about playing a healer in PvP as I do playing a tank in PvE. Which is almost nothing.

    Like I said. I personally found it stronger than a templar it's just a bit harder to play because it's busier (You have to be able to heal and CC at the same time while a templar only has to worry about healing and surviving.) Maybe a sub-optimal build for someone of average skill which is why it hasn't caught on but if you have it mapped out right it's better in small group open-world PvP, better on boats, better in 3v3s and can even win 1v1s because of your witchcraft pet. Pretty much the only thing it isn't better at is sitting in the back lines and managing healthbars in mass fights like Halcyona. On a par with a templar and worse than a cleric when it comes to that.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Getting to 3k equipment points is not hard anymore. Getting 7-8k so you can walk around one shotting people with 3k equipment points and not getting one shot by people in 7-8k is still quite a pain. I'm hopeful that the fresh start servers will take people long enough to get there that I'll never have to face people with that many more equipment points than I have.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,989
    Eldurian said:
    Now you're just being a fool. You're assuming the build is sub par when you clearly know about as much about playing a healer in PvP as I do playing a tank in PvE. Which is almost nothing.

    Like I said. I personally found it stronger than a templar it's just a bit harder to play because it's busier (You have to be able to heal and CC at the same time while a templar only has to worry about healing and surviving.) Maybe a sub-optimal build for someone of average skill which is why it hasn't caught on but if you have it mapped out right it's better in small group open-world PvP, better on boats, better in 3v3s and can even win 1v1s because of your witchcraft pet. Pretty much the only thing it isn't better at is sitting in the back lines and managing healthbars in mass fights like Halcyona. 
    Builds generally don't catch on when they're sub-optimal. There's a limited number of ways to build a specific class. There aren't any secret builds at this point, everything has been tried. The high performing builds become popular, while the sub-optimal ones fall by the wayside. Shadowbane is all about cc'ing opponents, mana draining, using defense to survive the wombo-combo of darkrunners/shadowblades, and tossing out some heals. Those are its strengths. Without songcraft or auramancy I would never consider it as a primary healer. I mained a Paladin, it was tough as nails as a combat/off-healer and great in 1v1's but I would never run it as a primary healer, especially in group pvp.

    Anyway, I didn't come into this thread to get into a pissing match about classes and builds. I gave the OP legit advice about the type of shit he can expect if he decides to play on a legacy server with whales and people who are geared to the teeth from playing for so long. If he decides to play, his absolute best bet to have a good experience is to play on the fresh start server when it releases.
  • raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
    filmoret said:
    raystantz said:
    BDO is awesome, so is ArcheAge. But I'm crazy... I want PVE more than PVP. I'm old-fashioned (or chicken).
    I want both. I'm still more of a PVEer than a PVPer but there's just something about world pvp that I dig.

    If you want both then you would be much better off in GW2 or ESO.  There is a wall in Archeage and it hits once you reach cap level.  The wall is steep and you will have to either grind for 100+ hours or spend a ton of money.  And that is for basic gear.  Not anything special.

    It is possible that changes were made.  I remember reaching cap level then getting some very basic gear.  And my next tier upgrades would take me over 200 hours of grinding.  So I quit instead.
    Neither of those two games have open world PVP it's all locked away in instances. Been there, done that.. not interested.

    www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules

    Currently playing:

    FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

  • raystantzraystantz Final Fantasy XI CorrespondentMember UncommonPosts: 1,237
    Forgrimm said:
    Eldurian said:
    Now you're just being a fool. You're assuming the build is sub par when you clearly know about as much about playing a healer in PvP as I do playing a tank in PvE. Which is almost nothing.

    Like I said. I personally found it stronger than a templar it's just a bit harder to play because it's busier (You have to be able to heal and CC at the same time while a templar only has to worry about healing and surviving.) Maybe a sub-optimal build for someone of average skill which is why it hasn't caught on but if you have it mapped out right it's better in small group open-world PvP, better on boats, better in 3v3s and can even win 1v1s because of your witchcraft pet. Pretty much the only thing it isn't better at is sitting in the back lines and managing healthbars in mass fights like Halcyona. 
    Builds generally don't catch on when they're sub-optimal. There's a limited number of ways to build a specific class. There aren't any secret builds at this point, everything has been tried. The high performing builds become popular, while the sub-optimal ones fall by the wayside. Shadowbane is all about cc'ing opponents, mana draining, using defense to survive the wombo-combo of darkrunners/shadowblades, and tossing out some heals. Those are its strengths. Without songcraft or auramancy I would never consider it as a primary healer. I mained a Paladin, it was tough as nails as a combat/off-healer and great in 1v1's but I would never run it as a primary healer, especially in group pvp.

    Anyway, I didn't come into this thread to get into a pissing match about classes and builds. I gave the OP legit advice about the type of shit he can expect if he decides to play on a legacy server with whales and people who are geared to the teeth from playing for so long. If he decides to play, his absolute best bet to have a good experience is to play on the fresh start server when it releases.
    So you don't think that people will be leaving the legacy servers in droves to create brand new accounts?

    www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules

    Currently playing:

    FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA. 

  • mcrippinsmcrippins Member RarePosts: 1,453
    Archeage could have easily been the best PvP MMO out there had they gone with a different business model, and maybe a few other tweaks/changes. I don't really blame Trion much for this, as they didn't really have much of a say in that, but the pre-cash shop beta was some of the most fun i've had in a game.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Forgrimm said:
    Eldurian said:
    Now you're just being a fool. You're assuming the build is sub par when you clearly know about as much about playing a healer in PvP as I do playing a tank in PvE. Which is almost nothing.

    Like I said. I personally found it stronger than a templar it's just a bit harder to play because it's busier (You have to be able to heal and CC at the same time while a templar only has to worry about healing and surviving.) Maybe a sub-optimal build for someone of average skill which is why it hasn't caught on but if you have it mapped out right it's better in small group open-world PvP, better on boats, better in 3v3s and can even win 1v1s because of your witchcraft pet. Pretty much the only thing it isn't better at is sitting in the back lines and managing healthbars in mass fights like Halcyona. 
    Builds generally don't catch on when they're sub-optimal. There's a limited number of ways to build a specific class. There aren't any secret builds at this point, everything has been tried. The high performing builds become popular, while the sub-optimal ones fall by the wayside. Shadowbane is all about cc'ing opponents, mana draining, using defense to survive the wombo-combo of darkrunners/shadowblades, and tossing out some heals. Those are its strengths. Without songcraft or auramancy I would never consider it as a primary healer. I mained a Paladin, it was tough as nails as a combat/off-healer and great in 1v1's but I would never run it as a primary healer, especially in group pvp.

    Anyway, I didn't come into this thread to get into a pissing match about classes and builds. I gave the OP legit advice about the type of shit he can expect if he decides to play on a legacy server with whales and people who are geared to the teeth from playing for so long. If he decides to play, his absolute best bet to have a good experience is to play on the fresh start server when it releases.
    That's PvE talk. You need songcraft, auramancy and a great club when you can expect that the tank will hold all the aggro and nobody will touch you. I'll take AoE fear and shield over inspire or healing hymn any day of the week in combat against intelligent and unpredictable opponents.

    You don't know how to play a Shadowbane. I do. You're speculating based on what you've heard. I'm detailing what I've actually done.

    Builds don't generally catch on unless they are easy to play. If you are aren't a scrub it opens up a whole array of really cool builds that may be better for you. Shadowbane's a more strategic build but it's only sub-optimal if you are a sub-optimal player.

    http://archeagedatabase.net/us/calc/429991

    You wear either stone cloth or Tier 4 + Healer's Obsidian cloth with a shield and club.

    Probably the most versatile healing focused build in the entire game if you have the skills to play it. All the bread and butter healing skills, a shield, a pet, CC, buffs, debuffs, and you do have the option to mana burn your opponent if they have a tank/healer like a templar.

    Enervate > Earthen Grip > Shield Slam > Bull Rush > Purge is also a quite nice combo to assist your pet in taking down opponents in 1v1s but all of them have useful applications during your primary role too (Enervate for weakening the healing of opposing healers, earthen grip for CC, Shield Slam/Bull Rush to deal with opponents who get too close for comfort and Purge to help cleanse debuffs and give +25% magic defense to yourself and allies. REALLY good for plate wearing allies that don't have much of that.)

    Overall just a great build for people actually want options in combat and have the skills to manage all those abilities and all the potential things you can do with them.
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