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Should every MMO let you pay max level+best items possible?

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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,949
    Paying to remove level and gear progression in a MMORPG  is pants on head retarded. Why the hell would someone even buy the game in the first place if they didn't want to play it and level and get gear?

    I actually want to put in time and effort and play the game to progress and earn rewards not just credit card warrior it.

    Completely defeats the purpose of playing the game for me and is why the genre is utter crap.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

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  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,160
    Every mmorpg should get rid of lvls!

  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,707
    As long as they are already selling ingame items in cash shop, which most of the modern MMOs do, I pretty much do not care if you can also buy max level and top gear. The game is already irrelevant either way, for me. 

    I am from the oldschool MMORPG crowd (are there still so many of us to even call it a "crowd"?). I consider MMORPGs to be more than just a product and believe that they need a balanced monetization model to even keep the status of an MMORPG. As long as the game sells any ingame items for real cash, it stops being an MMORPG, for me.

    I am glad there still are some developers who have similar view and aim at producing the oldschool MMORPGs which do not offer any ingame items for cash. For instance, vision of the guys creating Saga of Lucimia is absolutely great, in my opinion. Pantheon is also not going to have any ingame cash shop if I am not mistaken. Hell even Linage 2 Classic in the west has only box price and subscription and does not have any kind of cash shop.


    In MMOs (WoW, BDO, AA, ESO, WS, GW2,...), I do not care. In the dying MMORPG genre, cash shop has no place.



     
  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe Member UncommonPosts: 39
    edited November 2016
    TheScavenger said:
    But why not include paying for the best items possible? In WoW, I would totally pay to have the best raid items available.

    Why? Because all I want to do is focus on PvP, I don't want to grind PVE raids. I don't want to grind 1000s of hours in terrible groups, in any game. All I want to do is experience all the content possible solo (because dealing with PVE groups is annoying and terrible), then join groups and be on an even playing field for PvP.
    You can always PvP, you just want to PvP with the best gear so you can win in PvP without doing the work.


    "I buy everything because i can't be bothered to do the work and i don't want to play with other people because they annoy me but i want to have the best gear so i can own all those people i don't want to play with in PvP." ~ OP most likely

    [Citation Needed]
    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,190
    Should every MMO be fantasy themed?  
    Should every MMO have 3 or more character slots?
    Should every MMO sell costumes?
    Should every MMO have ranged weapons?

  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 859
    edited November 2016
    Same guy starting threads about the decline of MMOs is asking if you should be allowed to skip everything and buy your way to the top, interesting......

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/458542/are-mmos-in-a-state-of-quality-decline/p1
  • timeraidertimeraider Member UncommonPosts: 798
    The guy who has to ask wether he should be able to buy everything isnt really playing the games they should be played for sure...
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited November 2016
    No, but the fact people will do it kind of proves my point that there needs to be MMOs where there isn't even leveling or permanent gear progression. If something is so boring you will pay to skip past it, why is there in the first place?

    Rather than you working on your character, the game can focus on your character's effect on the world.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,452
    You should realize that you're asking for a game to be pay to win.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited November 2016
    TheScavenger said:
    But why not include paying for the best items possible? In WoW, I would totally pay to have the best raid items available.

    Why? Because all I want to do is focus on PvP, I don't want to grind PVE raids. I don't want to grind 1000s of hours in terrible groups, in any game. All I want to do is experience all the content possible solo (because dealing with PVE groups is annoying and terrible), then join groups and be on an even playing field for PvP.
    You can always PvP, you just want to PvP with the best gear so you can win in PvP without doing the work.


    "I buy everything because i can't be bothered to do the work and i don't want to play with other people because they annoy me but i want to have the best gear so i can own all those people i don't want to play with in PvP." ~ OP most likely

    [Citation Needed]
    I like that people equate running through rotations on mobs, a job literally so easy that in most games there are macros that do it better than most humans do, as some actual kind of work that deserves a reward. You're not working you're being rewarded for how much time you spend not being a productive member of society in the real world. Where as money is generally proof you have served your fellow man. Lottery winners and drug dealers (As you seem to be suggesting with your picture) are the exception to the rule, not the rule.

    Games are about entertainment. Therefore if content is not enjoyable it is fundamentally failing it's most important role. People log on to have fun not to be forced to do mind numbingly boring tasks over and over and over so they have the stats to do the content they actually want to be doing.

    To be clear I'm not so much advocating for the ability to pay past grinds as creating MMOs that aren't level/gearscore based. But if you're going to have levels, might as well let people pay their way past that crap. At least they are useful to society.
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,643
    Way to completely miss the whole point of a mmorpg - progression, character development, accomplishments. I just don't get this attitude, or I can only explain it as non mmorpg players playing the wrong genre for their taste.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    kjempff said:
    Way to completely miss the whole point of a mmorpg - progression, character development, accomplishments. I just don't get this attitude, or I can only explain it as non mmorpg players playing the wrong genre for their taste.

    I thought the point of an MMO was to be massively multiplayer and online. That doesn't seem to suggest to me in any way that it is necessary to tie accomplishments to progression of character power.  
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,643
    Eldurian said:
    kjempff said:
    Way to completely miss the whole point of a mmorpg - progression, character development, accomplishments. I just don't get this attitude, or I can only explain it as non mmorpg players playing the wrong genre for their taste.

    I thought the point of an MMO was to be massively multiplayer and online. That doesn't seem to suggest to me in any way that it is necessary to tie accomplishments to progression of character power.  
    Yeah and you can list words from ARPG as action and rpg, but everyone agrees the definition hold more than those two words.
    My point is, I just don't get why players want to skip the game and go straight to the end. Congrats you avoided playing the game, here is the win screen, now go play another game.
    I know the major companies are taking their games further and further away from what mmorpg is with p2w, insta-max level and horizontal "progression", but that does not mean the definition mmorpg has changed, it just means they are creating a new genre (which remains to be named properly).

    You don't want to play a mmorpg but a multiplayer game without the progression, good there are plenty of games which are defined as rts, moba and more.
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,190
    edited November 2016
    kjempff said:
    Way to completely miss the whole point of a mmorpg - progression, character development, accomplishments. I just don't get this attitude, or I can only explain it as non mmorpg players playing the wrong genre for their taste.
    Do you feel Ultima Online and EVE Online were designed for the wrong genre?

    What about Furcadia? Endless Forest?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,921
    Instant leveling is an interesting option which comes in handy if you've gone through the same content eight times already and just want to see how another class will play.  If it's a good game players will stay.  Can it be abused? Yes. But just grinding to skip content is the same thing.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,191
    If your allready max level and have best gear. What are you striving for?  

    Most people IMO do the quests are dungeons or battlegrounds or whatever not just because they are fun but because they are working for something. If you've already got the best what are you going to do?

    Sure it's fun to do that occasionally, play in god mode and wipe everything but people for long term play like some kind of challenge or push, at least a feeling they are getting better.
    Thats a good question for alot of WoWs playerbase
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,559
    edited November 2016
    As long as they are already selling ingame items in cash shop, which most of the modern MMOs do, I pretty much do not care if you can also buy max level and top gear. The game is already irrelevant either way, for me. 

    I am from the oldschool MMORPG crowd (are there still so many of us to even call it a "crowd"?). I consider MMORPGs to be more than just a product and believe that they need a balanced monetization model to even keep the status of an MMORPG. As long as the game sells any ingame items for real cash, it stops being an MMORPG, for me.

    I am glad there still are some developers who have similar view and aim at producing the oldschool MMORPGs which do not offer any ingame items for cash. For instance, vision of the guys creating Saga of Lucimia is absolutely great, in my opinion. Pantheon is also not going to have any ingame cash shop if I am not mistaken. Hell even Linage 2 Classic in the west has only box price and subscription and does not have any kind of cash shop.


    In MMOs (WoW, BDO, AA, ESO, WS, GW2,...), I do not care. In the dying MMORPG genre, cash shop has no place.



     
    Saga of Lucimia has stated they have not ruled out a cash shop. They have only stated they will not be free to play with a cash shop. On some discussion somewhere someone asked Tim if they would have a cash shop even with the sub, he stated they have not ruled it out.

    Trying to find it now. Part of it is discussed here
    https://sagaoflucimia.com/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-mmo-mechanics-and-memories.7/page-2

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,707
    edited November 2016
    As long as they are already selling ingame items in cash shop, which most of the modern MMOs do, I pretty much do not care if you can also buy max level and top gear. The game is already irrelevant either way, for me. 

    I am from the oldschool MMORPG crowd (are there still so many of us to even call it a "crowd"?). I consider MMORPGs to be more than just a product and believe that they need a balanced monetization model to even keep the status of an MMORPG. As long as the game sells any ingame items for real cash, it stops being an MMORPG, for me.

    I am glad there still are some developers who have similar view and aim at producing the oldschool MMORPGs which do not offer any ingame items for cash. For instance, vision of the guys creating Saga of Lucimia is absolutely great, in my opinion. Pantheon is also not going to have any ingame cash shop if I am not mistaken. Hell even Linage 2 Classic in the west has only box price and subscription and does not have any kind of cash shop.


    In MMOs (WoW, BDO, AA, ESO, WS, GW2,...), I do not care. In the dying MMORPG genre, cash shop has no place.



     
    Saga of Lucimia has stated they have not ruled out a cash shop. They have only stated they will not be free to play with a cash shop. On some discussion somewhere someone asked Tim if they would have a cash shop even with the sub, he stated they have not ruled it out.

    Trying to find it now. Part of it is discussed here
    https://sagaoflucimia.com/forums/index.php?threads/your-favorite-mmo-mechanics-and-memories.7/page-2

    Thanks for the info. It would be disappointing for me if they decided to implement cash shop into their game. It does not seem to be in alignment with their vision for SoL.
  • ann4ann4 Member UncommonPosts: 41
    waynejr2 said:
    You skip the journey.  You missed the game.

    Question answered.
    Hiya!  Would you date a gamer girl? Look at the page I made. Hope you like!  <3 
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited November 2016
    ann4 said:
    waynejr2 said:
    You skip the journey.  You missed the game.

    Question answered.
    If leveling and gear grinding is the reason to play any game then it sounds like a game worth missing IMO.

    Personally I will put up with leveling and gear grinding if there is enough fun content locked behind it that it's worth playing despite the grind. The grind has never been my reason for playing any game.

    I think that it's sad that anyone ever would play a game for the grind. Don't people have better things to do with their lives than watch numbers go up?

    I play MMOs for social dynamics, the ability to build things, and to hopefully challenge myself. Not for *ding* "You leveled up!"
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